DB Cooper

[377 22]

Quote

Doesn't he know I would
love seeing proof Duane
was not Cooper?

Jo,

Have you forgotten? You claim to have proof that Duane was Cooper. Show it. Prove that Jerry is wrong.

We are all waiting. Teases, dodges and excuses is all we have seen so far.

Put your cards on the table.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

Quote

Doesn't he know I would
love seeing proof Duane
was not Cooper?

Jo,

Have you forgotten? You claim to have proof that Duane was Cooper. Show it. Prove that Jerry is wrong.

We are all waiting. Teases, dodges and excuses is all we have seen so far.

Put your cards on the table.

377

Galen Cook and Geoffry Gray are not telling all - and you want me to do what others have done - state what has NOT been verified.
NO WAY. When it is verified then I will tell you in the mean time I sit on my hands and at the same time trying to chew my fingernails. Get the picture?

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

I do not believe the following post started a series of explanations and me having to defend a memory.
======================

The post about the door AH Yes! That fits with my memory, but was that DOOR ever used to for passengers entry or exit on the ground? I want to say we entered and exited at that door, but looking at the picture that would seem strange considering it doesn't seem to be that large a plane and the aft stair exit would have been more feasible. Our trip to the Islands I believe was in 1987 and therefore maybe the bottom aft stair way had been sealed off and the plane we were on may have had special 1st class VIP passengers using the front door.

This trip to the Islands is when he explained how the stairway worked in detail. He did tell me this exit was used for deliveries - I asumed food carts and cleaning services.

I can't remember the name of the Island, we landed on, and don't have a map of that area. We had to take a puddle jumper that was a bucket of bolts to St. Martins - scariest plane I have ever been on in my life...I was terrified until we got on the ground in St.Thomas ,but we had a better plane on our return trip to the bigger island.

Some of the group took side trips to St. Croix. Our luggage had been lost and we were without clothes until about a half an hour before the Banquet. Someone had loaned me a dress but shoes to fit me were NOT to be found AAAA so I was going barefoot. We didn't have time to have our things pressed and where late getting down to the Awards banquet, but it had already been relayed to the group we were on our way with our own clothes.

Since someone posted a picture of the aft stair door - my mind has that all mixed up now,...the image I had in my memory didn't exactly match the picture that was posted way back when. I am sure different airlines had revamps over the yrs. because of the fabric covering on that wall and the door of the plane we were on to St. Croix (since I keep mentioning St. Croix maybe that is where the 727 flew into).

Because of the lost luggage, the trip of my life was pretty miserable as I had flown out in a suit as was the custom in those days. Can you even imagine going on site seeing trips in suits (both of us)...and the clothes on the island were terribly expensive. Because we didn't have a change of clothes was why we didn't go with the group to shop and play on another island.

If someone had 4 or 5 different views of the wheel from 727's I would be able to pick out the closest to my memory. The woven fabric was of a rich dark golden tan color on that rear panel, makes me think this plane in 1987 had been revamped and it seemed more appointed than another 727 I took to Ky...in the 90's.

Duane and I flew out of Denver to Atlanta in 1977 - 1980, but I don't know what kind of plane it was. This is the flight he hid for a great deal of the time in the bathroom until the 1st class stewardess closed the curtain. On this trip whatever plane we were on we definitely sat on the right side of the plane.

On that trip to Atlanta - he was hiding from a stewardess he said was an old girlfriend. I kept trying to get a glimps of her and that is all I got - but she sure looked like the pictures I have seen since of Florence Shaffner without the extreme hairdo's. This woman had shoulder length hair, but not touching the shoulders if I remember - my hair was longer and thicker than hers and the color (if it was real) had a slight auburn cast to it but still classified as brunett.

When Duane finally came back to his seat he changed seats with me so he was facing the wing and window - he kept a magazine in front of him. This was odd - because he was usually looking all around him at things - not behind a magazine.
As soon as the stewardesses started to serve the drinks - he told me what to order him and again he stayed in that bathroom forever.

He told me she was an old girlfriend and he didn't want anything to do with her (that DID NOT sound like the Duane I knew and then spent 14 more yrs with after that). When we got off of the plane. We had to have walked right past the stewardess I would think...I will note that I was looking for her so I could get a better look at her and do not remember seeing her. Duane seemed visibly nervous and when we got to Atlanta - he immediately got very DRUNK, and made a complete ass out of himself with my friend in Atlanta...she poured a drink on him. We were flying Frontier.


I even remember what I was wearing on the plane. A plaid flaired skirt in hues of wine with a wine long sleeved blouse with an off white crocheted vest or a green suede flared skirt with a green plaid blouse with that same crocheted vest. I believe I wore the Green outfit because it was more comfortable....and I had on dress boots to just below the knee.

If I go to my pictures I can give you more details on the dates...because of some fragmented memory here I feel compelled to do this tonight if I feel like doing it...this is the same time we met with the Mystery man in Altanta and who Duane had a very private conversation with behind CLOSED doors - a man with whom he should not have had any reason to be speaking with.

I came back to add to this - I wonder what kind of plane we were on in the trip from Denver to Atlanta...because he didn't say anything about the stairway on this flight.

The aft stair was not mentioned until the 1987 flight from Miami to the Islands. Since we were living in Virgina at that time and I had family in Fl - we drove to Miami and stayed there one night after getting back - this is when he took me to the Fontane Blue - this is when he got drunk and fell off of the yacht cutting himself on the coral in the canal. This trip is making more and more sense right now, because he was reliving old memories...and they had put the Shunt in his arm to make sure he would be ready for diaylsis which he didn't need until 1990.

My life must be coming full circle because of the recent stress that has been imposed on me by things unrelated to Cooper. My memory is more clear today than it has been in a long time - suddenly things are pulling together - I couldn't remember how or why we were in Miami until this post.

The things he told me at the Fontane Blue - what he talked about. That he actually saw a couple of people he knew and briefly introduced me to them, but not until he had gone over and spoke to them privately. OMG. The memories are pouring all over the place right now....sorry got to go ....crying.

I know this post is all out of order, but I have to get these memories down in print before they are gone.
===================

The next post I made included more memories but having to defend my right to state memories at the same time


The memories where there and have been recorded - what I had not remembered recalling was how or when I was at the Fontaine Blue - What I remembered was that...and what transpired that evening.

Going back to things I wrote before I had a computer - yes, I had written about the Fountain Blue, but had just forgot it - that is what happens when you tell something for 14 yrs - that one evening didn't seem very important in the beginning, but for some reason it does now.

I had put these memories on tapes back in the very beginning and those tapes are old and fragil and I am afraid to play them - infact I don't have anything to play them on anymore - micro cassettes.

As I have said before I have never FABRICATED any part of this story and would appreciate it if you would STOP YOUR accusations. They are my memories and I have NO reason to fabricate anything because NONE of it proves Duane was Cooper. It is an accounting of my life with him and if you are intimidated by my recounting these things, dates, times, places, things said, etc then you are the one with the problem or someone with something to hide.

I am hiding very little because the more I tell the more likely it is the thing we have all searched for just might lie in one of these trips or in something Duane said. It will be something that might not mean one hell-of-beans to me, but might be the one thing someone else or someone reading what I have said might recognize - or place some significance on.

I am sure you where not at the Fontaine Blue and definitely not on the yacht we went out on later. What I would like to know is who the 2 men were Duane spent some private time with earlier that evening...both were older than Duane and Duane did ask the bartender if a certain person was there. The bartender pointed over in a certain area - we were sitting on the side of the bar to the Canal and dock - so I could watch the yachts pull up. The area Duane went to talk to this person was on the very far side and he told me to stay in my seat and not to come over. I could only get a glimpse of the men Duane was talking to and then they went someplace I could not see them - one did glance my way - I am assuming because he told them his wife was with him.

I never knew how Duane would know someone there and why the bartender would know who this person was and why they took their conversation out of sight and I think out of the room. I have tried to remember the name Duane asked the Bartender for - it was one first name or nickname.

=====================

Now I will add a new memory about that same night. I had been waiting for a long time and decided I needed to find the ladies room. I asked the bartender where my husband was - and he told me they went to a back room. This means the man Duane was with had to be connected to the Lounge. I have been searching for old records today about the history of the hotel and the connecting lounge, but found NOTHING but "stuff" about the new facility.

I realize this is of NO interest to you guys, but hoping someone will read this and could help me find this information. I am looking for records of 1987 for the Lounge that was on the Canal side of the Hotel. There was more than one lounge in the Hotel or connected to the Hotel.
Remodeling was going on when we were there - I even remember a barricade thing and Duane asking someone up front and outside a question.

I had the name and address of the people we went out on the yacht with for a long time and then yrs later redoing an address book did away with it. Duane knew this woman from the past.
She was older than me and heavy set with short dyed blonde hair. She was known by several of the people there.

I remembered this evening very specifically - because Duane got very drunk and fell off the Boat at a house near the canal - he had really bad barnacle cuts on his foot and she drove us back to our motel. We had walked to the lounge from where we were staying.

This was one of very few times that I saw Duane fall down drunk...when the kidneys are failing that is EASY to do. That was the last time I ever saw him drunk....by changing his life style he added 7 yrs to his life. He did try to have a few drinks between 1987 and 1988 - but after we moved to FL and as the disease progressed alcholol became toxic to him. He never stopped wanting to drink, but even a sip from my glass made him sick. He was never a mean drunk - like his friend told me to night - Duane used that grin of his and it was very effective. I have one picture with that grin, but never felt it important enough to scan.

Now I finished what I was trying to do before I got caught up in other things. You don't need to reply in the forum - a PM will do just fine. Thank you all for your tolerance...but my world is limited and this is the only way I have of communicating with others to obtain information from the past about certain subjects.

Maybe I am hoping that someday after I am gone the truth will come out and you guys will say "She told us that - damn he really was Cooper".

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[Orange1 0]

Quote

Quote

Cooper
(Duane Weber) survived

Prove it Jo. Show us the evidence you claim to have. It is a simple request.

Your credibility suffers greatly when you make a big claim, promise to reveal proof and then offer endless excuses why you can't do it.

If you could actually prove Duane was Cooper then Jerry's tactics and confrontations shouldn't matter one bit to you.

377

+1

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[Orange1 0]

Quote

Galen Cook and Geoffry Gray are not telling all - and you want me to do what others have done - state what has NOT been verified.
NO WAY. When it is verified then I will tell you in the mean time I sit on my hands and at the same time trying to chew my fingernails. Get the picture?

Yeah, I get the picture. Well, there are two pictures really but they both come down to pretty much the same thing:

1) clearly, not all (and maybe none) of these people could have been Cooper. You are each waiting for other's "evidence" to try prove your own pet theory. This actually means none of you have any evidence of your own that really seals your case.

2) but Jo really the more obvious picture is YOU HAVE NO PROOF. You claim you will present it when "it has been verified". Apart from the fact that you have been making similar claims for years, IF IT HAS NOT BEEN VERIFIED IT IS NOT PROOF. Anyone want to take a bet with me that we will never see the "verification" of this "evidence", just another few thousand posts of teases, conjectures and leaps of logic?

ie picture 1 or picture 2 both mean the same thing: NO PROOF Duane was Weber. Nothing. Nada. Nyet. Niks. Nein. etc.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

Jo I have searched all record's you Know this . Why? because you got all the Information that you have from me and book's . This is what allows you to make up the storie's that you post and tell other's. The only question left to ask you. Is what new story are you going to come up with. It is very interesting and comical. Not to mention degrading Duane's name and yourself.It is aparent that the only thing you realy care about is notority and attention. Believe me you have accomplished this goal . Problem is it is adverse and not credible in your favor.Jerry

All I did was ask Jerry why he kept telling me that the FBI said Duane was with Family on that Thanksgiving - what family?

I will note he says "you got all the information that you have from me and book's".

What Really Happend - Gunther
HA HA HA by D.B. Cooper
Norjax by Himmelsbach
D.B.Cooper Dead or Alive by Tosaw

Those are the only 4 Cooper book I have read. What information did I get from Jerry?
NONE absolutely Nothing. I think he finally sent me a map - outside of that he has been a hinderance - because if I had been talking to someone else they might have identified the areas I spent over 3 yrs trying describing to him. Jerry said nothing like that existed and yet it was right there the whole time.

I took Himmelsbach's word that Jerry was the ground man and knew the area but, I give a female truck driver a very brief description and she directs me right to the places - there is something very wrong with this picture. I got it a long time ago and why I did not talk to Jerry except for ONE time after I returned from Wa in 2001 until he came to this forum.

I tried to past it off as miscommunication, but it appears to be much more. It boils down to motives - and I have no motive other than to find the truth.

Yes, it makes me angry to be told the FBI had information that proves Duane was not Cooper - wouldn't you be ANGRY if you spent 14 yrs of your life searching for answers and someone supposedly gave you certain information?

If I was looking for the things Jerry accuses me of - I certainly wouldn't be here in this wonderful forum seeking help - perhaps I should have just jumped on the BOOK and MOVIE deals that came my way early on - I had the opportunities to sign multiple contracts - but I needed more information - I wanted to know the truth.

What did I find in my search - lots of warm generous people, but there were a lot of vultures and guys jumping on the bandwagon. Emotionally I climbed a lot of mountains and slid down a lot of gulley and got all muddy, but then there was always that small glimer of hope that maybe this was it.

What makes me different from others who claimed to know who Cooper was. A confession, things he told me, places he took me, things I held in my hands and all I have are my memories and that maybe all I will have in the end, but there was no other goal. Yes the temptation to take the offers and let them throw something together was there - but, my own pricipals kept me from doing that. I had to do it my way - the right way or not at all.

This has been a costly trip - financially, emotionally and physically - but I do not regret it.
If anyone of you think that I like living like this you have another guess coming. I don't think any of you really understand what happened to my life after I found out who "DAN COOPER' was and you don't know me or my background. If I was into this for the things Jerry and a very few others have said - I wouldn't be in this forum searching for the truth - I could be sitting in a nice retirement home and doing a lot of traveling with the proceeds from all those book and movie options I turned down...if they didn't end up on the cutting room floor.

All because I wanted REAL answers and not some made up story that doesn't resemble the truth. At this point there is NOTHING to gain - except knowing the truth - regardess of who Cooper was. Duane's old friend told me - the highjacking will never be solved and no one will never know the truth. He wants me to take what is left of my life and walk away because the search for that truth has destroyed me and made a very old lady out of me.

A lot of people have made a lot of money off of Cooper - the ones who where looing for Fame and money are the ones writing the books. Cooks book will be a one time thing if he is only writing about Gossett.

Not sure about Grey - he has been quiet lately - may have bit off more than he can chew, but I am sure he will put out a fairly decent book because of the take he has on it. I believe it will be exploratory and a pretty fair prepresentation of all of the suspects - I also expect his book to be investigative in nature, even though he was the one who did the article on Christainsen.

Regardless - if I am still alive I will read both books and if one of them has a chance to hit a best seller list - I would bank on Grey. Ever seeing something written or produce regarding my story - probably not. In 2038 maybe...but there won't be anyone to keep it truthful because there is no one who will carry the torch and no one in 2038 will care about who Cooper
really was. It will just be The Only Unsolved Hijacking and if Duane's friend is right - that is how history will remember it.

The proof could be layed on a table in front of the FBI, but they will just say - he stole it from someone else - after all he was a thief. Among all of the suspects Weber is the only one who fits and the only one with all of the mounting co-incidences. Note I said mounting co-incidences which will be what they will classify what we have been working on.

Duane's friend told me tonight that when he was in the service he had to wear a chute, but he never had to use it. Cooper got lucky and survived, but was never able to spend his money. Guess I will have to find that grinning photo and post it...because it has been on my mind constantly since I spoke with his old friend.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[377 22]

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The proof could be layed on a table in front of the FBI, but they will just say - he stole it from someone else -

Jo,

You know that if Duane possessed ANYTHING directly connected to NORJACK, stolen or not, it would be newsworthy and highly relevant. Yet you produce NO EVIDENCE, just incredible claims and irrelevant anecdotes.

Your MO is predictable and it never varies. Teasing is an integral part of it. The quote I pasted above is an example of a Jo tease. It implies you have probative PHYSICAL EVIDENCE directly connected to NORJACK, but predictably you won't lay it on the table citing one of the lamest excuses you have offered to date:

"the FBI will just say he stole it from someone else."

You seem incapable of changing. I am a tolerant person, but you stretch my limits.

Why not just publish your evidence in its current state and let others evaluate it? I think Orange knows why. I think I am coming around to Orange's way of thinking.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[377 22]

Quote

Among all of the suspects Weber is the only one who fits...

Really? PROVE IT.

Duane is a far worse fit than Gosset. Gosset was a trained military parachutist who possessed many of the skills needed for NORJACK. He had worked at Ft. Lewis.

Duane as far as I can tell had ZERO parachute training or experience. You think he was an inmate smoke jumper, yet can produce no evidence other than a "disappeared" photo that contradicts all the well documented history of smoke jumper operations in the western US.

To my eye, Duane is not nearly as good match to the FBI sketch as Gosset. Braden is a stunning match, but we have an witness eye color description that probably rules him out. Braden was a very clever guy, had a motive, was a criminal and had combat HALO experience that would be about the best prep for NOJACK that one could have.

Why do you say "Weber is the only one who fits"?

You must be tired of my confrontations Jo. Just put ALL your cards on the table, verified or unverified, and I will cut you some slack. Otherwise, expect to be reminded of your unfulfilled promises, frequently.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[georger 267]

Quote

Quote

Among all of the suspects Weber is the only one who fits...

Really? PROVE IT.

Duane is a far worse fit than Gosset. Gosset was a trained military parachutist who possessed many of the skills needed for NORJACK. He had worked at Ft. Lewis.

Duane as far as I can tell had ZERO parachute training or experience. You think he was an inmate smoke jumper, yet can produce no evidence other than a "disappeared" photo that contradicts all the well documented history of smoke jumper operations in the western US.

To my eye, Duane is not nearly as good match to the FBI sketch as Gosset. Braden is a stunning match, but we have an witness eye color description that probably rules him out. Braden was a very clever guy, had a motive, was a criminal and had combat HALO experience that would be about the best prep for NOJACK that one could have.

Why do you say "Weber is the only one who fits"?

You must be tired of my confrontations Jo. Just put ALL your cards on the table, verified or unverified, and I will cut you some slack. Otherwise, expect to be reminded of your unfulfilled promises, frequently.

377

Thats a pretty good summation (above)
in my estimation. Its a foregone conclusion Jo will
disagree, but alas this has been going on forever,
more than a decade, with not one positive result even from Jo and WE, whoever WE is.

Yes, Bradon is noteworthy from one point of view, but it appears he has problems qualifying, under
the standard set of criteria we have been given.

From our point of view (with limited data) we can
only know of those individuals who recommend
themselves via the media or who are recommended to us. By this standard if we were hunters, we might
well starve to death before a meal happen by, and
we are left eating bark on trees in the winter!

[Orange1 0]

Quote

To my eye, Duane is not nearly as good match to the FBI sketch as Gosset. Braden is a stunning match, but we have an witness eye color description that probably rules him out. Braden was a very clever guy, had a motive, was a criminal and had combat HALO experience that would be about the best prep for NOJACK that one could have.

Probably, but not necessarily - as we know colored contacr lenses were available. Any leap of faith requiring Braden to obtain these is a lot less than those required to make Weber fit the mould!!

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[377 22]

Quote

By this standard if we were hunters, we might
well starve to death before a meal happen by, and
we are left eating bark on trees in the winter!

That's true for me, I'd starve. Others do some scouting, albeit mostly online. Snow found some very interesting candidates who were not self referred. Bruce actually ventures out of the cave and talks to people.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Orange1 0]

Incidentally for interest here is another story about a CIA operative from Laos/Thailan who ended up in Africa in the 60s, including some stuff about the CIA operations in Congo, and a couple of Cuban pilots to boot. Links to some pics, including T28s for 377.
It's actually about a plane crash, and I thought this bit was "nice" --

Quote

Despite what I owe them, I have never had the chance to meet with or thank those who did so much to save my life. The Agency, however, arranged to airdrop a planeload of medicines, tools, and clothing for the village. It was well received and understood to be, as intended, a gesture of our thanks for what they did for me.

https://www.cia.gov/library/center-for-the-study-of-intelligence/csi-publications/csi-studies/studies/winter99-00/art2.html

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[377 22]

The colored contacts possibility is actually quite interesting.

It has always astounded me that Cooper wore no apparent disguise. If you could radically change your eye color you might not need one. The technology was readily available 1971.

Maybe the puzzling lavatory disappearance was to remove and dispose of (or conceal in a pocket) his colored contacts. I dont wear contacts. Do you need a mirror to remove them? I recall reading something about tandem passengers being injured by leaving them in and having goggles come off.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[BruceSmith 3]

Greetings everyone,

I have a few items to share:

1. The search for Braden and family has turned into a utter slog. Nothing concrete to report. However, I did make a brief detour to check out a man named Braden who lives in Cooper County, but that has turned up zilch.

2. SOG vets. Here too, the low-hanging fruit has been picked. Still have a couple calls out there, but nothing directly impacting the Cooper case.

3. Nat Geo. I finally spoke with Phil Day, the producer who filmed the documentary. Here is the gist of our conversation:

Interview with Phil Day, Producer of “The Skyjacker Who Got Away.”
Edge West Productions

September 4, 2009; phone

Interview started cordially.

However, when I pushed him about Nat Geo’s decision to cut the Barb Dayton material, he tapped into his own frustration with the project. He was very professional – he never revealed specifically whether his greatest ire was with the Nat Geo, the inscrutable nature of the Cooper story, or the NW weather.

I suspect all three played a strong part.

When I asked him to assist me in making direct contact with the producers at Nat Geo who made the decisions to both cut the Dayton material and add the propeller theory, he got uncomfortable.

Nevertheless, to his credit Phil agreed to carry my letter of request for an interview directly to the Nat Geo.

Here are the specifics of our chat:

“I put forward a cut with Barb in it,” Phil said. He also said that he made three different drafts and had presented “several theories, including the Forman’s story.”

From what Phil said, it sounded like the decision-making process with National Geo was difficult and laborious. He said that besides the multiple drafts, numerous phone calls and emails went back and forth.

Phil claimed he had “zero say” in the final decision, and that he made three separate efforts to have the Dayton material included. Reading between the lines, it sounds like Phil fought hard for the Dayton angle, until finally he said:

“I was told in no uncertain terms what editorial changes to make.”

He described National Geographic’s decision to drop the Dayton angle based on three elements:

1. No direct evidence or corroboration.
2. The FBI does not support the theory.
3. It is a provocative angle, complex, and would require a lot of screen time to tell clearly.

Phil seems fed-up with the Cooper story and Cooper craziness. At one point he called the Cooper story “ a yarn.” He later added that he does not think the truth will ever be known.

Phil did not speak all that warmly about Larry Carr, or at length, either, which I find telling, since Larry’s the case officer. Phil merely described Larry as using the Cooper case as a means to ‘carve out a niche for himself.” I took that to mean: build a reputation and get some fame and glory.

Phil also said that the FBI is not putting any resources into the Cooper case.

Phil spoke most laudably about Tom Kaye, and praised Kaye’s “pro bono” work on the Cooper case.

“He’s a damn good scientist,” he added. Later he called Kaye a “conscientious scientist trying to find answers to the story.”

He also praised Tom’s dedication to the Cooper case, touting how he had been working on it for years and “certainly has had to deal with a lot of frustrations and inconsistencies.”

When I challenged Phil on the propeller theory, asking how it had been presented to him since Tom Kaye is reportedly now repudiating it via Jerry, Phil said that they filmed Tom and his theories just as Kaye presented them. Phil said that Kaye had not presented the propeller theory with any qualifiers, nor did Tom say anything to indicate that he thought the theory to be highly speculative or problematic.

Phil utterly dismissed Himmelsback, at one point saying that Ralph was “sporting nonsense.” I wanted to follow up on his derision of Ralph, but was unable due to time restraints

At the end, when I pushed for access to Nat Geo, Phil mentioned that the Barb cut made it through the first round of three reviews by Nat Geo, but got tripped up in the second.

Lastly, Phil washed his hands of all things Cooper. “I’m certainly not going to be banging on the Cooper story in the next five years, and I certainly won’t be traipsing up to the Pacific Northwest any time soon.”

[snowmman 3]

Thanks Bruce.

Bruce reported from Day 'He also praised Tom’s dedication to the Cooper case, touting how he had been working on it for years and “certainly has had to deal with a lot of frustrations and inconsistencies.” '

Either Day misunderstood, Tom misled or lied to Day, or Tom lied to the forum.

Tom hasn't been "working on it for years".

I don't know why people would be frustrated with the case. I think the real frustration is because most of the people involved, government or non-government, are liars.

I was reading some of Jo's stuff, and thought..man this is really pretty crazy shit. There is something invigorating about being actually insane.

At this time, I'd like to introduce another member of my research team.
http://lasvegasmob.net/cgi/wp/index.php

Jo, there are some Duane related items there at the site, but I'll leave it to you to pick them out.

In terms of future strategies, my co-researcher suggests:
There seems to be agreement that only about 20 percent of the 20,000 employees who work at the CIA’s Langley complex know about the slave chamber containing about 300 slaves. The Pentagon should employ a series of escalating acts of psychodrama and then FULLY debrief the CIA employees who resign following each psychodrama iteration. My proposal was to abruptly shut down the CIA’s Food Court and then (contemporaneously) have a lot of “buzzing” of the CIA’s buildings in Langley by military aircraft including at least one pass from a C-5 Galaxy directly over the older of the two main buildings. The current Pentagon proposal is to encircle the CIA’s buildings at Langley with “smoke” in the form of jet aircraft exhaust. This would make for a rather wimpy beginning but might generate a handful of resignations who could be FULLY debriefed which in turn would put more information inside the CIA itself. A widespread internal rumor about the slave chamber containing 300 slaves on the premises would probably cost the CIA at least 5,000 employees just for openers. Under steadily increasing Pentagon psychodrama pressure even more employees would ultimately resign. There probably are not more than 1,000 people at the CIA’s Langley complex who actually willing to fight the Pentagon in terms of bloodshed. And probably 85 % of that ilk live in the older building as compared to the newer building that went in under the Reagan POTUS. What we want to do is to essentially “peel” away the 19,000 employees who are not prepared to engage the Pentagon in physical combat. As described above, this peeling away can be done with iterations of psychodrama steps and associated debriefings of CIA employees as they resign in waves trailing each psychodrama iteration.


Once we finally get the Langley complex down to a hard core of evildoers who want to combat the Pentagon, then we should simply terminate all of their salaries and dare them to try to go to work. And if this strategy fails to bring matters under full and complete Pentagon control, we might consider using poison gas on the hard core evildoers. In my mind there is a sense in which mustard gas would be just about ideal, but I have a feeling that if things reach that level where we are down to maybe 1,000 CIA killers ready to combat the Pentagon, then the Pentagon will use lethal nerve gas or something even more lethal means to bring matters to an endpoint. There is a nuclear reactor in the old building, but I believe that it has been shut down now. Perhaps in the endgame against the really hardcore CIA evil of maybe 1,000 persons, the Pentagon will put out a hoax that the reactor malfunctioned causing a tremendous explosion destroying the older building completely. But even under this scenario there would probably be about 300 slave corpses in the rubble and the corpses could be wearing some sort of battery powered thigh restraint.

[georger 267]

Quote

Thanks Bruce.

Bruce reported from Day 'He also praised Tom’s dedication to the Cooper case, touting how he had been working on it for years and “certainly has had to deal with a lot of frustrations and inconsistencies.” '

Either Day misunderstood, Tom misled or lied to Day, or Tom lied to the forum.

Tom hasn't been "working on it for years".

I don't know why people would be frustrated with the case. I think the real frustration is because most of the people involved, government or non-government, are liars.

I was reading some of Jo's stuff, and thought..man this is really pretty crazy shit. There is something invigorating about being actually insane.

At this time, I'd like to introduce another member of my research team.
http://lasvegasmob.net/cgi/wp/index.php

Jo, there are some Duane related items there at the site, but I'll leave it to you to pick them out.

In terms of future strategies, my co-researcher suggests:
There seems to be agreement that only about 20 percent of the 20,000 employees who work at the CIA’s Langley complex know about the slave chamber containing about 300 slaves. The Pentagon should employ a series of escalating acts of psychodrama and then FULLY debrief the CIA employees who resign following each psychodrama iteration. My proposal was to abruptly shut down the CIA’s Food Court and then (contemporaneously) have a lot of “buzzing” of the CIA’s buildings in Langley by military aircraft including at least one pass from a C-5 Galaxy directly over the older of the two main buildings. The current Pentagon proposal is to encircle the CIA’s buildings at Langley with “smoke” in the form of jet aircraft exhaust. This would make for a rather wimpy beginning but might generate a handful of resignations who could be FULLY debriefed which in turn would put more information inside the CIA itself. A widespread internal rumor about the slave chamber containing 300 slaves on the premises would probably cost the CIA at least 5,000 employees just for openers. Under steadily increasing Pentagon psychodrama pressure even more employees would ultimately resign. There probably are not more than 1,000 people at the CIA’s Langley complex who actually willing to fight the Pentagon in terms of bloodshed. And probably 85 % of that ilk live in the older building as compared to the newer building that went in under the Reagan POTUS. What we want to do is to essentially “peel” away the 19,000 employees who are not prepared to engage the Pentagon in physical combat. As described above, this peeling away can be done with iterations of psychodrama steps and associated debriefings of CIA employees as they resign in waves trailing each psychodrama iteration.


Once we finally get the Langley complex down to a hard core of evildoers who want to combat the Pentagon, then we should simply terminate all of their salaries and dare them to try to go to work. And if this strategy fails to bring matters under full and complete Pentagon control, we might consider using poison gas on the hard core evildoers. In my mind there is a sense in which mustard gas would be just about ideal, but I have a feeling that if things reach that level where we are down to maybe 1,000 CIA killers ready to combat the Pentagon, then the Pentagon will use lethal nerve gas or something even more lethal means to bring matters to an endpoint. There is a nuclear reactor in the old building, but I believe that it has been shut down now. Perhaps in the endgame against the really hardcore CIA evil of maybe 1,000 persons, the Pentagon will put out a hoax that the reactor malfunctioned causing a tremendous explosion destroying the older building completely. But even under this scenario there would probably be about 300 slave corpses in the rubble and the corpses could be wearing some sort of battery powered thigh restraint.

Yes. We can read what Brcue said for ourselves.
We dont need you reporting it back to us
(correctly)? Makes me wonder who you are addressing, us or yourself? Talk about "crazy shit"!
You on drugs or what?

[snowmman 3]

yes.

[377 22]

Quote

I am AT LEAST 80 % confident that the CIA gave McVeigh the detonator cord.

The above is from Snow's newest research team member. The guy really makes sense. The whole idea of CIA "slave analysts" is very perceptive and explains much of what goes on in Langley.

Nice to see some quantitative analysis. Jo needs to start using numbers.

We learned from the fake body count scandals in Nam that you really need to use random numbers in the suffix. The made up enemy body counts almost never ended in a zero which gave the scam away.

I am at least 95% confident that Duane Weber never made a parachute jump anywhere.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[georger 267]

Quote

Greetings everyone,

I have a few items to share:

1. The search for Braden and family has turned into a utter slog. Nothing concrete to report. However, I did make a brief detour to check out a man named Braden who lives in Cooper County, but that has turned up zilch.

2. SOG vets. Here too, the low-hanging fruit has been picked. Still have a couple calls out there, but nothing directly impacting the Cooper case.

3. Nat Geo. I finally spoke with Phil Day, the producer who filmed the documentary. Here is the gist of our conversation:

Interview with Phil Day, Producer of “The Skyjacker Who Got Away.”
Edge West Productions

September 4, 2009; phone

Interview started cordially.

However, when I pushed him about Nat Geo’s decision to cut the Barb Dayton material, he tapped into his own frustration with the project. He was very professional – he never revealed specifically whether his greatest ire was with the Nat Geo, the inscrutable nature of the Cooper story, or the NW weather.

I suspect all three played a strong part.

When I asked him to assist me in making direct contact with the producers at Nat Geo who made the decisions to both cut the Dayton material and add the propeller theory, he got uncomfortable.

Nevertheless, to his credit Phil agreed to carry my letter of request for an interview directly to the Nat Geo.

Here are the specifics of our chat:

“I put forward a cut with Barb in it,” Phil said. He also said that he made three different drafts and had presented “several theories, including the Forman’s story.”

From what Phil said, it sounded like the decision-making process with National Geo was difficult and laborious. He said that besides the multiple drafts, numerous phone calls and emails went back and forth.

Phil claimed he had “zero say” in the final decision, and that he made three separate efforts to have the Dayton material included. Reading between the lines, it sounds like Phil fought hard for the Dayton angle, until finally he said:

“I was told in no uncertain terms what editorial changes to make.”

He described National Geographic’s decision to drop the Dayton angle based on three elements:

1. No direct evidence or corroboration.
2. The FBI does not support the theory.
3. It is a provocative angle, complex, and would require a lot of screen time to tell clearly.

Phil seems fed-up with the Cooper story and Cooper craziness. At one point he called the Cooper story “ a yarn.” He later added that he does not think the truth will ever be known. ...................

Good summation, Bruce. You do good work.

Phil aptly describes the whole Cooper eschatology.

Did anyone but Snow & Jo think it was any different?

[377 22]

Quote

Greetings everyone,

I have a few items to share:

1. The search for Braden and family has turned into a utter slog. Nothing concrete to report. However, I did make a brief detour to check out a man named Braden who lives in Cooper County, but that has turned up zilch.

2. SOG vets. Here too, the low-hanging fruit has been picked. Still have a couple calls out there, but nothing directly impacting the Cooper case.

3. Nat Geo. I finally spoke with Phil Day, the producer who filmed the documentary. Here is the gist of our conversation:

Thanks Bruce!

Do you see Braden as a viable Cooper candidate? But for the eyes he makes a pretty good Cooper in my book. Is it possible he wore colored contacts? I have always wondered if Cooper's extended time in the lav had something to do with removing and concealing a disguise element that might have interfered with the jump.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[nigel99 610]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Cooper
(Duane Weber) survived

Prove it Jo. Show us the evidence you claim to have. It is a simple request.

Your credibility suffers greatly when you make a big claim, promise to reveal proof and then offer endless excuses why you can't do it.

If you could actually prove Duane was Cooper then Jerry's tactics and confrontations shouldn't matter one bit to you.

377

+1

Notice how these posts are studiously avoided.

On a side note does anyone know if a credability meter rolls over when it reaches 0?

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[377 22]

Quote

Notice how these posts are studiously avoided.

Indeed I do. Jo picks her battles carefully. Right now Jerry is the enemy. Carr can breathe a sigh of relief.

The rest of us are noise. Noise can be ignored.

Can you see Jo directly and fully taking on Orange? Not a chance.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[georger 267]

Quote

Quote

Notice how these posts are studiously avoided.

Indeed I do. Jo picks her battles carefully. Right now Jerry is the enemy. Carr can breathe a sigh of relief.

The rest of us are noise. Noise can be ignored.

Can you see Jo directly and fully taking on Orange? Not a chance.

377

How would Jo take on Orange? Can't
happen. Dont contenders have to be on the same field? Orange is in So Africa! Its Day Dreaming.
In the meantime there is much more at stake,
at least for any serious Cooper sleuther ...

Snow is a lot like Jo; just calls people liars when
a roadblock is encountered. Any thinking person
knows its a lot more complex and its easy for me
to see it, because I am in a position to see it.
I am amazed Snowmman doesn't see it. That
goes to Snowmman's limitations, I guess. Contact
lenses won't get Snowmman out of his bind and
Snowmman knows it. Snowmman is therefore a
liar! Just like Jo!

Beyond Jo Weber and possibly Snowmman, the
real problem here is not lying so much as
territory. People are not telling all they know
or think they know for proprietary reasons. Bruce
is the only exception. A situation like that is
bound to lead to chaos just a Phil noted. And
the chaos is so deep people are actually confused
and unable at this point to stick to a script of
basic facts ... as witnessed by 377 reaching for
contact lenses. But we can retrace a few steps -

Prior to Jerry Thomas surfacing here to offset
the Weber Effect we had relative harmony AND
a basic set of facts of the case. Jerry very quickly
dismantled that with the announcement of a new
flight path (which remains unresolved to this date).
That wasnt Jerry fault. Jerry simply has a different
set of facts. Jerry's set of fact comes directly from
H. We all know that.

In the meantime Tom and I and others were
trying to establish another set of facts. Sluggo had
his set of facts and was trying to expand upon that.
Jo had her set of facts, which are irrelevant to this
case (Jo was pestering everyone to accept her story) . Larry Carr left and was in limbo. Geof
Gray was silent out assembling another set of
facts. Safecracking was working with logic. Nat
Geo was needing to put a special together, of
some kind! The FBi was doing nothing but watching
and wondering/laughing. Snowmman was out
looking for a candidate based on his belief a
specific skills set is at the core of this case ...

When you add in a proprietary element to the
above you get exactly what we have, which is
gridlock. The seeds of that were obvious in the
first few posts made in this forum years ago
and here it is today in fuller more expanded
form. Bruce is the only exception doing any
rreal searching and talking that matters. When
Bruce first hit this forum with his idiotic Barb
story I never would have predicted Bruce would
mature beyond the Dayton story, but little did I
know! He has and its wonderful to see!

It only makes matters worse when Snowmman
bottom feeds calling everyone liars because lying
is not the central issue at work here any longer. Things have evolved far beyond that!

We either dig ourselves out of this hole, or we don't,
as I see this -

What Bruce has reported Phil is saying is: Phil
encountered a diverse set of people especially
in the NW who operate in an uncoordinated and
highly proprietary state involving little mutual
sharing, each of whom has a different theory and
a different set of supposed facts, the sum total of which equals a kind of jingoistic wackoism! Phil
could not find what he considered a rational person in the whole lot, except for Tom!

Snow calls Tom (and Phil) liars! That's a predictable
response from our resident genius Snowmman.
To hell with Snow-mman!

According to Bruce, Phil has arrived at the point where he wants nothing further to do with the whole
matter, ie Phil is very highly frustrated just like
some of us here.

And 377, orange, and Snowmman could care less
what Phil says or thinks! Phil is a liar! That eliminates
Phil fron contention, so far as Snowmman is concerned.

Like Jo Weber, how did Snowmman become so
central to this case? That's what I would like to
know.

And, the same question can be applied to any of
us.

[377 22]

Quote

Like Jo Weber, how did Snowmman become so
central to this case? That's what I would like to
know.

Snow doesn't think he is "central" to this case. Why does he rile you up so much? You guys were actually getting along for a while. Shame that it can't endure.

I know the colored contacts theory for Braden is a BIG HUGE reach, but the fact that Cooper wore no apparent disguise has always puzzled me. Colored contacts would explain that puzzle. So would plastic surgery and a host of other highly unlikely events...

Can we stop calling each other liars? It accomplishes nothing and gets tempers heated up.

Everybody brings something to the table, even Jo. If you disagree with someone, try avoiding personal insults. I have been pretty tough with Jo lately, but I haven't crossed the line into insulting her.

The Cooper mystery is not impossible to solve. It is just tough. It is just as likely to be solved by chance as it is by determined investigation. There are just too few solid clues as to his ID. We start with too few facts and lots of assumptions. That's all we can do at this point. Maybe we will get lucky. Maybe Jerry will find something as unlikely as the odds make it seem.

Many of the Japanese FUGA balloons that landed in the Pacific NW were found by hikers, picnickers etc. You just never know what might be waiting in the woods to be discovered later. Housing is spreading, maybe something will be found when thick brush is cleared for construction.

I am an optimist. In my lifetime I think Amelia Earhart's plane will be found and DB Cooper will be identified.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Orange1 0]

Bruce - thanks.

Re the comment about Larry Carr and glory - well, it is pretty much what we have said here - how famous would the Fed who solved the case be! - and if nothing else it tells me Larry would not dismiss a good suspect for shaky reasons.

377 - I wear contacts and no, do not need a mirror. However, someone who was not used to wearing them regularly, might. In any case if you wanted to take them out without being conspicuous about it then out of sight in the lavatory makes sense.

Question: why do Americans always call it "the bathroom" even when it doesn't have a bath (or even shower) in it?

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.