DB Cooper

[georger 268]

Quote

I am at lost to find something I have searched for - yrs. I might as well let you guys think I have lost it, but here goes.

During the early yrs I told Himmelsbach and others what I could about Duane. I mentioned anything I thought might be of value.

377 - this is one of those (like the 3 guys in parachutes in front of a prison) - and I SWEAR to GOD that picture DID exist...a lot of my memory is visual as most of you who have followed my plight must by now realized.

Somewhere between 1990 and 1995 there was a documentary or at least a 15 minute segment on an assassination of a political figure in foreign country. It had been suggested to me that it might have been CHE, but I can't make anything I have researched about him to co-incide with the memories I have of this segment. Search your memories because this is important and might help me to connect Duane with someone from the past.

Scenario: There was an incident where a political figure in a foreign country had been killed.
This documentary was showing pictures that were NOT supposed to have been made - during the incident. Cameras where NOT supposed to be there - this was some type of secret covert thing.

At any rate they show some fuzzy pictures of a house and a door way, but as the program progressed they showed a picture of a man in fatiques (camouflage outfit) holding a rifle across his chest. He is standing with his feet apart - this appeared to be a posed picture.
This program mentions that this man was involved in the incident.
There is a wall or building behind him - not an open field. He appears to be tall (at least 6 ft) - and of good build. Since they were showing his picture on TV I would presume this person was maybe deceased or a known soldier of fortune (in other words they implicate this man, but it is several yrs after the incident so I am presuming the man may have been living out of the country or deceased).

When this segment was televised it was NOT about a RECENT incident - but, I get the impression of it being in the 70's.

Duane said at that time - that he knew the man whose picture they put up on the screen (NOTE that DUANE DID NOT mention anything about any involvement regarding himself). They must have given a name, but since this was considered a political type thing I didn't pay much attention. I believe this segment aired after 1990 and of course before February of 1995.

NOW, I am going to explain something else. HOW DUMB I AM! I did NOT know until today that mercenaries and soldiers of fortune are one and the same. After all of the posts I didn't GET IT until it was SPELLED out to me today.

Now do you guys see what I mean by the Dumb Blonde Syndrome.

I am not posting this quest for you guys to make fun of me - but hoping that someone can help me find this segment and who it was about. I am not interested in whoever the political figure was, but the PHOTO of that man and who he was. I am asking for help on this issue and may have asked before - but, for some reason the urgency of need to know is an issue right now and I am asking for YOUR help.

I know you guys will come through on this - and when it does it may mean something about Duane's past or at least those he was in associations with.

Thank YOU ALL.

PS:
Salvador was mentioned, but I have been unable to find ANY clips of any segment EVER done on this incident. I found lots on Che, but nothing that seemed related to the segment Duane and I were watching that night. Does anyone have any sources on Salvador that is NOT on the internet or any other specific similar incident that was suspect CIA hush hush involvement?

I would contact Fidel Castro.

Buenos Nochos.

[snowmman 3]

I just found this. I can't believe it, since I really wanted to hear it after Plaster described it.

It's the real thing.

The mp3 is posted at professionalsoldiers forum. (on 9/5/07)
You should be able to listen to it just by clicking, but you can download and click on it too

I have firefox setup to play when I click it. If I use IE7 it prompts me to download. So you may have to play with your browser options if you can't get a prompt to download it.
It's 32.29MB, but you still should be able to play it live.

http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/files/sog_recon_team_in_trouble.mp3

Bruce: gripping when combined with the background reading from Plaster's books.
The details below (like Plaster being called "Plasticman") are correct per Plaster's book.

Plaster mentioned how he got the tape in his book. (edit) I just saw how this tape was recorded (see description)..so maybe it's not the same tape Plaster mentioned. Not sure. It says it was Cryer and Plaster on the Covey that recorded it? Maybe the tape is from Cryer, and Plaster didn't know Cryer had it? (edit) another post maybe said it was recorded back at Camp Long Thanh?


here's the description of what's going on. (edit) not sure who the poster was.

This is a recording of two Recon Teams (RT's) who are in dire straits. Both RT's are losing a battle whereby death is imminent. Those RT's are: RT Colorado with Pat Mitchel being the 1-0, Lyn St. Laurent as the 1-1, and David "Lurch" Mixter as the 1-3. RT Colorado is an eight man team including the five Indigenous troops. The other was RT Hawaii with Les Dover as the 1-0, Regis Gmitter the 1-1, and John Justice the 1-2 (I believe this to be the case with this recon team as far as who was what on the team through natural progression of skills learned in combat.) May not be accurate though, reader and listener take note. Also, it is unknown to me how many Indigenous Troops made up RT Hawaii at that time.

RT Colorado is the team that is running for its life. RT Hawaii is holding their own. Both RT's have called out a "Prairie Fire" in Laos near the Ho Chi Minh Trail and are approximately 10 miles apart as the crow flies. Colorado has just been hit by a North Vietnamese platoon of 40 men who desire no more than to wipe this team completely off the face of the Earth.

During this Prairie Fire, David Mixter is killed when he saves Mitchel's life by shoving him to one side and exchanging fire with an NVA armed with an RPG. Mixter and the NVA exchange fire immediately. The NVA fires his RPG as Mixter fires his weapon. The RPG hits Mixter in the knee area and kills him instantly as the NVA drops dead by Mixter's return Fire.

What exactly does a "Prairie Fire mean? It means at least three things, they are: 1) You are in contact with a much superior force than yours. 2) Either completely surrounded or will be. 3) Death is imminent.

The other two "emergencies" were the following: 1) Tactical - meaning you are in engaged with the enemy, but you are holding your own for now. This could be upgraded at any time to a "Prairie Fire". Especially if you are surrounded and have allot of wounded. 2) Team - Somebody is sick or injured.

All pilots that flew gunships, helicopters, attack and fighter aircraft were given a "briefing" before flying in country. That briefing entailed what to do if a FAC has called out a "Prairie Fire" over the radio. By the rules in Vietnam everyone listening was to stop what they were doing and come to the aid of the FAC/Recon Team(s).

John "Plasticman" Plaster is the "Covey Rider or Backseater" on the afternoon shift with Captain Mike Cryer as the pilot of their OV-10 Bronco. They had just lifted off from Pleiku after eating lunch there and are heading out towards Laos. Ken "Shoebox" Carpenter is flying as the CR onboard the military version of the Cessna 210 Skymaster over Laos at this time. As Plaster and Cryer left for Laos they noticed how clear the sky was considering that most of January had been very wet. As they passed Ben Het below, Cryer switched their radio frequency over to "Shoebox" Carpenter's frequency and what you hear for the next 35 minutes is two RT's fighting to stay alive.

One other item of importance. The reason why you hear so many people talking at once is because allot of the helicopters and FACs had what is known as a "hot mic". What this means is that the microphone is always on and talking on it is much like talking on a telephone. Everybody can talk and hear responses immediately. The only exception to this is the Recon Team(s). They relied upon the PRC-25 and much later in the war the PRC-77 for commo and this meant that the RT could constantly moniter a channel (receive) and transmit by pushing the button in on the handset.

Also, the first "Prairie Fire" you here is from RT Hawaii's 1-0 Regis Gmitter and it is during their rescue mission. When you here Platster call on the radio: "I have your smoke, where do want the firepower brought in?" you will hear Pat Mitchel's voice stating that "Their is only two of us left and Charlie is dead on our ass!". Mixter was killed a few minutes before this and the Indigenous troops are nowhere to be seen. Also, it is during this time that Mitchel is carrying Lyn St Laurent as he is seriously wounded himself. They are fighting for for their lives. Pay special attention to the background noise when Plaster is talking. You can hear the twin engines screaming and an occasional burst of the four mounted M-60's. The continuos M-60 firing at the end is from the rescue Huey's doorgunners. One is firing one long string of 7.62 ammunition through his M-60 without stopping. It is still a very hot area.


Here is the following code names/words that are used in this recording that may be of use to the listener. Hopefully this will make the following conversations easier to understand and follow. Here are some of these words:

1) Plasticman John Plaster's personal call sign while on a RT
2) White Lead Huey in charge of flying the rescue mission
3) Delta Papa Three John Plaster's call sign while flying as Covey Rider in Bronco
4) Tango Papa Pat Mitchels call sign as 1-0
5) Panthers AH-1G Cobras. Also known as "Cobra"
6) Kingbees H-34 Helicopters usually flown by Vietnamese pilots
7) Bravo Hotel Ben Het SF camp
8) Delta Tango FOB at Dak To
9) Foxtrot Mike FM radio frequency
10) Victor VHF radio frequency
11) Uniform UHF radio frequency
12) Straw Hat/Type Code name for American personel on a RT
13) Kilo November Known North. Position is "Kilo November"
14) Lurch David Mixter's personel call sign
15) Winchester Air assets that are out of ordnance

Note: If any codenames/words are left out, they are unintentional. I ask that you either PM me or send a response to this thread with any question you may have. I will try and find out the answer and if I cannot, hopefully one of the SOG members here can respond to it. Any error(s) that may have occurred above are mine and only mine. I applogize a head of time for this.

Note: From my point of view, one should listen to this if possible, in a dark and quiet room with no distractions. This way you can hear and understand most of the recording.

This recording is dedicted to the greatest soldiers in the world, the men who wear the Green Beret.

NOTE: For further information on this Prairie Fire x2, one should get "Secret Commandos, Behind Enemy Lines With The Elite Warriors Of SOG", By John L. Plaster

[snowmman 3]

full document at
http://www.hardscrabblefarm.com/vn/ranger-manual.html

Pretty interesting.

Special Forces Combat Recon Manual
Republic of Vietnam
POI 7658, Patrolling FTX

Prepared by Project (B-52) Delta
HQ. NhaTrang

1. Attached are "Reconnaissance Tips of the Trade" prepared by Detachment B-52. Commanders of all units are encouraged to disseminate, widely, the information contained therein. The information presented in the attached "Recon Tips" is very appropriate for use in unit and individual training of US and indigenous personnel. Such information can be of significant value to units engaged in conventional patrolling as well as special reconnaissance units.

2. Detachment B-52, 5th Special Forces Group (Abn), 1st Special Forces assembled the original document. Was assisted by personnel of B-52, MACV Recondo School and 5th SFGA Combat Orientation Course School, who contributed from their knowledge and experience. Special credit is given to MSG Norman A. Downey, 1 SG, CCC Recon Company for his assistance.

3. This document has been reviewed and annotated by Headquarters, 5th Special Forces Group (Abn), 1st Special Forces. For easy use and reference the document has been organized into annexes.

[snowmman 3]

Cryer's account is attached.
He seems to say some Huey pilot recorded the tape above.

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

I would contact Fidel Castro.

Buenos Nochos.

Send me his address - betcha don't have it. Considering some the de-classified things I have read recently - not sure I am proud to be an American. The things our own governement has done in the name of democracy makes me sick! If they have kept these horriible things secret all of these yrs - then it is possible and believeable that - our US government knows who Cooper was.

I had to stop reading some the documents because they were actually making my stomach churn...dirty politics...orders to eliminate without involving our armed forces - in other words - Covert - orders and NOT to involve CIA.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[Orange1 0]

Quote

If they have kept these horriible things secret all of these yrs - then it is possible and believeable that - our US government knows who Cooper was.

Well, there's a leap of logic that would span the widest part of the Grand Canyon.

Re castro, why don't you try fidel.castro@cuba.gov ?

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[snowmman 3]

Quote

Quote

If they have kept these horriible things secret all of these yrs - then it is possible and believeable that - our US government knows who Cooper was.

Well, there's a leap of logic that would span the widest part of the Grand Canyon.

Re castro, why don't you try fidel.castro@cuba.gov ?

maybe try
cubaminrex@minrex.gov.cu

some reflections from Fidel are at
http://www.cuba.cu/gobierno/discursos/
I'll post a more recent one from 2009

hey, CIA and Che article on the home page of Diario Granma
http://www.granma.cubasi.cu/

[snowmman 3]

from http://www.cuba.cu/gobierno/reflexiones/2009/ing/f110609i.html

(edit) also note wikipedia description of Operation Peter Pan here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Peter_Pan

Reflections by Comrade Fidel

The envy of Goebbels

Yesterday I was listening to the Round Table TV program when it analyzed, among other topics, Operation Peter Pan, one of the most repugnant acts of moral aggression carried out against our country. Patria potestas is an extremely sensitive issue. That was a repugnant low trick. One of the novels by Mikhail Sholokhov that I read some years later included a reference to that kind of slander which had already been used against the Revolution of October,1917.

The mastermind behind that operation against Cuba was Monsignor Walsh, an American Catholic priest who worked under the orders of the bishop of Miami.

The operation began in 1960. As is known, our Revolution had not placed any obstacles whatsoever to prevent those who wanted to leave the country from doing so. The work of the Revolution had to be voluntarily made by a free people. The imperialist response, among many other serious aggressions, was Operation Peter Pan.

When Taladrid was making his comments on that event, he mentioned the name of Ángel Fernández Valera, a professor of Economics. I remembered that when I was on my last senior high school year at Colegio de Belén, a lay professor used to teach us one of the subjects: Political Economy. Obviously, this was not about a Marxism-Leninism course, which was the ideological issue resorted to 18 years later in order to expel Cuba from the OAS. Those were simple and quite elemental classes on bourgeois political economy. What else were we, the white pupils who studied there? The professor who taught those classes two or three times a week was very punctual and never missed a class.

I was surprised by what I heard during the Round Table program. I wonder if that man was the same professor I had met. I called Taladrid and asked for more information. I checked that with him, because I knew that man had been a professor at Colegio de Belén. Luis Báez equally asserts that I had met with that professor somewhere in Havana in 1959 and that I had criticized his attitude, but I did not remember that detail.

Some days ago, Walsh was decorated post mortem for having worked the “feat” of Operation Peter Pan. A few years before he had declared that he had received some telephone calls for him to start with the operation and that he had made some arrangements with the CIA.

By the end of May, Álvaro F. Fernández, the son of Fernández Varela, declared to the digital magazine Progreso Semanal that “…a few years before he died in Miami, my father brought us together in front of my mother, my sister María, her husband and myself, and told us that he had been one of the persons responsible for the drafting of the false Law that gave rise to the hysteria that surrounded the ‘elimination of the patria potestas’. That is why I know, without a shadow of a doubt, that Operation Peter Pan was a sinister and immoral maneuver designed and longed for by the CIA before the Bay of Pigs invasion…”

A CIA agent brought the false bill to Havana from Miami. Ángel Fernández Varela himself told to the magazine Contrapunto that he had worked for the CIA between 1959 and 1968.

Each of the 14 000 children involved in that tragedy followed their own traumatic path. They were mostly from middle class families. They were not the children of landowners or the wealthy bourgeois; there was no reason why they had to be dragged into that tragedy. By that time there was a Yankee embassy that granted the permits to enter the United States. The Peter Pan children application forms were sent to Cuba in packages and afterwards they were filled up here with the names of he children. None of them required to be saved. Throughout many years the Revolution has allowed the exit of around one million persons. Most of them have left for the United States, the richest country of all, which incentivates the brain drain and the stealing of cultivated persons and skilled labor force.

The United States would not be in the position to do the same with any other country of Latin America. Who else could have been benefited from that diabolical clandestine operation?

María de los Ángeles Torres, an associate professor of Political Sciences at the DePaul University in Chicago, was a Peter Pan child. Although she is not a revolutionary, she called for the CIA to declassify around 1 500 documents about Operation Peter Pan. The CIA has refused to declassify them under the pretext of national security. This whole issue smells so bad that some are reluctant to unveil it.

Despite that refusal, professor Torres asked and succeeded in that the Presidential Library Lyndon B. Johnson could grant her access to a document issued by the US government in which it refused a proposal made by the High Commissioner of the United Nations whereby the United Nations would cover the transportation costs for the parents of the children who had been sent to the United States. That material was published by the press of that country more than 15 years ago.

Operation Peter Pan was a cynical publicity maneuver that would have been the envy of Goebbles himself, the Nazi minister of Propaganda.


Fidel Castro Ruz
June 11, 2009
4:40 p.m.

[georger 268]

Quote

Quote

I would contact Fidel Castro.

Buenos Nochos.

Send me his address - betcha don't have it.

I betcha it doesn't matter to anyone in the
universe but you!

Has that ever crossed your mind?

[Orange1 0]

Fidel is rambling against the CIA because parents wanted their children to grow up somewhere with a better chance for a decent life?
uh, ok.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[snowmman 3]

Quote

Fidel is rambling against the CIA because parents wanted their children to grow up somewhere with a better chance for a decent life?
uh, ok.

I don't know what the story is.
Here's another side of it.
http://www.pedropan.org/history.html
and to put faces on real people
(including some shots from back then)
http://www.pedropan.org/gallery.html

(edit) book with first hand accounts from the kids. As you can expect, some have a totally different view of whether it was 'good'
http://books.google.com/books?id=FsXg7uNul5YC&pg=PA156&lpg=PA156&dq=operation+pedro+pan+sexual+abuse&source=bl&ots=lZsHSLXtgk&sig=GjIfc3HTzRxpGm5ViFjxcaZMSto&hl=en&ei=t0yQSqTeCJLQsQPNw5wM&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1#v=onepage&q=&f=false

"Operation Pedro Pan: The Untold Exodus of 14,048 Cuban Children" by Yvonne M. Conde
# Publisher: Routledge; Reprint edition (January 1, 1999)
# ISBN-10: 0415928230
# ISBN-13: 978-0415928236

Book overview
On August 11, 1961, at the age of ten, Yvonne M. Conde left Cuba in one of the world's largest political exoduses of children in history--Operation Pedro Pan. Between 1960 and 1962 over 14,000 children were sent out of Cuba alone by desperate parents who feared for their children's future under Castro.

Unlike Peter Pan, however, these children continued to grow up even while separated from their families.

Yvonne M. Conde investigates the events and key figures surrounding the exodus, including the roles of the Catholic church and the State Department, and the extent of the CIA's involvement. As the children arrived in temporary camps in Miami, dedicated volunteers such as Father Bryan O. Walsh helped them find new homes across the country.

Conde has tracked down hundreds of these children to tell their diverse stories--their uplifting, poignant, and sometimes tragic experiences in American foster homes and orphanages. Because she herself was a Pedro Pan child, others have opened up to her like never before to share their feelings about this painful time in their lives.

Today, these children and their families struggle to heal the emotional scars of their long separation. Writing with compassion and rare insight, Yvonne M. Conde uncovers the true tales of a little known episode of the Cold War."

(edit) some video and photos here
http://www.miamiherald.com/1489/story/1054954.html

[georger 268]

Quote

I've been trying to make sense of this thread and having said that, I can only but ignore the brilliance of your collective intellect and return to the unconscious vastness if unknowing. Give me ambiguity or give me something else....

Thats easily fixed.
Im gone.
Things should improve now immediately -

[skyjack71 0]

WOW! Had no idea that children were sent here alone in 1960's to shelter them from Cuba.
Wonder what happened to all of the children? Wonder if any of them became Skydivers?

So much I am learning in my old age - so many of us from the 60's just stumbled thru life in our sheltered worlds without a clue of what was really going on in Cuba and other places.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[Orange1 0]

Quote

WOW! Had no idea that children were sent here alone in 1960's to shelter them from Cuba.
Wonder what happened to all of the children? Wonder if any of them became Skydivers?

So much I am learning in my old age - so many of us from the 60's just stumbled thru life in our sheltered worlds without a clue of what was really going on in Cuba and other places.

with respect Jo, many have continued to do it ever since. it's the point i've made here before when you have railed against the US govt - sure they have done bad things - but many of you have no clue as to what life can be like in a politically repressed country without democracy. i don't know if there is any govt anywhere with an unblemished record, but there are certainly different degrees.

snow,. there are always 2 sides. if i was a cuban parent - anywhere parent - i would want what is best for my child. difficulty growing up might be part of it but at least these parents know that today their kids have food on the table, had a shot at a system with decent education, job opportunities etc. maybe my take is rather different, because africa is full of families who have been separated while someone tries to make a better life for them and their kids.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[snowmman 3]

agreed Orange1.
(edit) just read your note about african families. Yes, I don't know about African history much.

But it's an American thing, to always be looking for the best we can imagine, isn't it?

Like today's news, talking about CIA and power drills and fake executions.

My reaction is mostly "how incompetent" and "haven't we learned anything". (edit) I mean power drill is nothing. Chain saw is something. But if you're going to pull the chain saw out, you have to be willing to cut off something. Otherwise you're just stupid.

See that's what's disappointing. Not that we've done bad things, but that we don't fully absorb the lessons from the past, as a nation. It seems we as nation still haven't condemned torture in all cases. Isn't that interesting?

Cheney's book will be interesting.

(edit) (attached photo from newsweek.com) "Here, a Vietnamese soldier (picture in 1964) ties a Viet Cong guerrilla to an armored vehicle before dragging him through a stream, in an effort to make him talk"

[BruceSmith 3]

SOG news:

I spoke with Bill Kendall this afternoon. Very nice guy, and he told me some fascinating things.

First off, he didn’t know Braden, which surprises me, and he never heard the Braden-is-Cooper rumor.

However, Bill told me that he serviced with Bill Horner from 1957 until 1965 when Horner was killed “by a 60 going off prematurely.” I had asked Kendall about Horner because there has been speculation that Braden had used Horner’s ID and passport when he left Vietnam in ’67.

Kendall has no knowledge of any of that. Kendall also looked-up the name of Joseph Homer, who has also been reported to be the guy whom Braden impersonated. Kendall said that Homer is not listed in the SOG directory written by Steve Sherman, which Bill graciously consulted quite a bit when we talked.

Kendal said he was “one of the original 6 to be assigned to MACV SOG in 64” when SF were taking over from the CIA. Kendall also said that Airborne troops had been “skydiving since ’59, 60” and he had gotten his Airborne certification for this type of combat in ’63. (He also worked on his education at Langley in ’63, but did not disclose what the subjects were).

SOG was all one unit at that time, and only went to CCS, CCC, and CCN in 1965.

In 65-65 Kendal ran recon out of Long Thanh, but was familiar with Villa 10, which he said was located just outside of Saigon. Bill characterized it as a ”safe house” where indigs were de-briefed. Other things happened there, but Kendall said that he can’t tell me everything because a lot of stuff is still classified.

“I could tell you stories, but I won’t!” he said with a chuckle. “I signed four pieces of paper that said that I won’t divulge secret information, and I won’t.”

When I mentioned Leaping Lena and Braden’s role, Kendall seemed a little hazy about the operation. Not avoiding it, per se, but he gave me the feeling he wasn’t associated with it and so had little recall of it historically. At one point he said in reference to Braden, “I surprised I haven’t heard of the guy.”

I’m not sure of what recon team Kendall ran with in 64-65. However, he ran with RT Colorado in 68-69, which was Braden’s old unit, but Braden was gone by then. Kendall was 1-0 with RT Colorado in 68-69 and ran with a 1-2 who lives about 15 miles away from me, and whom I will contact shortly.

Kendall also ran with RT Illinois and RT Hawaii during this time.

In the interim period, ‘65-’68, (not sure on dates – Kendall said about a year and a half), Kendall worked with Bob Howard at CCC in Kontum. Howard is the most decorated soldier in the history of American warfare. Nominated for three Medals of Honor, and awarded one. He also received two Distinguished Service Crosses, I believe, and the list goes on. Howard also has 11 Purple Hearts – three more than Billy and I thought no one could top that.

Kendall also served with John Plaster during the ‘68-‘69 period.

Kendall said he didn’t know about Braden’s competitive jumping in Germany during the early ‘60s, which again is surprising since Kendall was jumping at Fort Bragg.

“We didn’t pay much attention to what was happening in Germany,” he said.

Kendall also said that he HALO jumped with Horner at Ft. Bragg. He said that Horner took over his job when Horner arrived in “Nam, and then Kendall took the job back when Horner was killed. “He wasn’t even in-country for 30 days when he was killed.”

Kendall said that SOG HQ was on Pasture St in Saigon.

Kendall was in the military from 1954 until 1974.

“When I retired, I just walked away from all of that stuff. I had to.”
.

[snowmman 3]

there was never anything that said Joseph Homer.
It's always been HoRNer.
I thought I pointed this out before.

sluggo mistyped.

Even Der Spiegel says HoRNer...see here
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=%22Ted+B.+Braden%22+Horner&aq=f&oq=&aqi=

[snowmman 3]

Bruce reported
"Other things happened there, but Kendall said that he can’t tell me everything because a lot of stuff is still classified. "

It's funny that there are old guys who think that something that happened in Vietnam in '62-'71 still has some national security implications, such that it needs to be kept secret from the American public.

Usually that just means stuff that would be perceived negatively nowadays. Nothing to do with national security.

That's fine though.

Can you imagine WWII or Korean War guys arguing that anything they know from back then is "classified".

See Orange1? The US is a miltaristic society. There's no way to avoid saying that. We like our military stuff.

[snowmman 3]

I had done a light search on his background, but didn't realize he had done HALO early on at Ft Bragg, and didn't realize he was 1-0 with RT Colorado in 68-69.

RT Colorado had a lot of interesting folks thru the years.
I wonder if Hetrick knew Kendall?
(Hetrick, Braden and Bath were RT Colorado at one point)

(edit) I just checked dates. Plaster puts Hetrick, Braden and Bath on RT Colorado in Oct, 1966.

[BruceSmith 3]

Righto- Snow, on RT Colorado '66 being Braden, Hetrick and JD Bath. See below.

Braden Update:

I just got off the phone with Jason Hardy, a collector and historian who has written a book about the SOG troopers, titled “SOG Team Insignias and History.” Bill Kendall called him and suggested he talk with me. We had a fine chat.

Here’s what Hardy told me.

“There’s no doubt in my mind that Ted Braden is, or was, DB Cooper.”

Hardy bases this on two things: One, a comparison of the sketches and the Ramparts pix. I did not discuss Flo’s views on the eye color. BTW: I still haven’t heard from Galen about Flo’s response to the picture. I was going to call Galen today, but these SOG guys keep calling……

Two: Hardy has a deep understanding of Braden’s personality, behavior and performance in Vietnam, which he has gotten through talking with a lot of SOG vets. Hardy was not in Vietnam - he a was a kid – and has not been a SF, as far as I know. Plus, Hardy has discussed Braden extensively with these vets.

Hardy gave me a lot of contacts to call, particularly JD Bath, who served with Braden and Hetrick in 1966 on RT Colorado, Braden’s last team, apparently, before he went missing in Vietnam.

Here’s what Hardy told me about Braden.

Braden had a split personality. He could “go off” in a split second. He went off on JD Bath during a recon, where apparently Hetrick was not there. Braden and Bath’s team was ambushed near a village and Braden, the 1-0, led them into the village and ultimately Braden killed someone in the village who was an ARVN soldier. (I don’t know if this was the RAF that got Braden arrested for murder).

After the firefight, Bath suggested they head back to Kontum. They apparently had a truck and had driven up Highway 101 to this village. Apparently the truck was shot up so they could not return.

Braden confronted Bath and called him a coward and that they wouldn’t be heading to Kontum, but instead Pleiku. Braden drew a gun and pointed it at Bath, challenging him. Bath backed down.

Braden then stopped a South Vietnamese bus and hijacked the bus, threatening the driver, who fled.

When the team got back to Kontum, Bath told his CO he wanted off the team. The CO challenged Braden, who reportedly did not remember the incident.

Remember – this is all told to me through Hardy who got it from Bath. I’ll be checking it out with JD shortly.

Also from Hardy:

Braden liked cognac. (Don't know about Bourbon). Braden would do 100 sit-ups before breakfast every morning. He was fastidious and always dressed sharp. He usually wore a sweater even though is was “as hot as hell.”

Hardy reported that the rumor of Braden-is-Cooper was widespread. Even more common was the assumption that Cooper was a SOG trooper. That opinion was ubiquitous. “It was a long-standing joke!”

Also, Hardy told me that there is a SOG trooper listed in the SOG directory by the name of DB Cooper! WOW. I’ll be checking this out with Steve Sherman, the author of the directory.

Hardy said that Braden was something of a legend in Vietnam, and that his relationship with CIA was a topic of conversation. “No one knew how long Braden had been in “Nam,” said Hardy. Early SOG was so mixed up with the CIA, he added.

Hardy says: “I respect the man. He was a loose cannon, but he always got his men out.”

Hardy said that he had been investigating Braden and had tracked him to San Francisco at one point. He didn’t say when, even though I asked. Hardy also said that a private investigator was also looking for Braden at the same time and had in fact contacted Hardy, looking for information on Braden.

[snowmman 3]

Larry Carr thinks he's "getting the word out" with his TV appearances with Tom the Paintball Wizard..and meanwhile there's a whole group of guys who are confident about Braden

"Here’s what Hardy told me.
“There’s no doubt in my mind that Ted Braden is, or was, DB Cooper."


No matter how the Braden thing turns out, how many other interesting suspects might there be, where the FBI is just never going to get a call?

I mean, this isn't like dropping a dime on a bank robbery.

I really can't picture how Carr thought he had a strategy for solving this case.

What was Carr doing here anyhow, if he thought Cooper was dead, and had little jump experience? What was the point of talking with folks here?

[snowmman 3]

You're doing a stellar job, Bruce.
Can't be topped.

It's great Kendall put you on to Hardy. Sounds like Hardy has a lot of info. Surprised he dug deep on Braden.

Be great if you can get in touch with Bath. (don't know if he's still alive)

[snowmman 3]

This post is from the professionalsoldiers forum

Note that JD Bath was still there in 71 (edit) Well I guess he did the HALO jump in '71, so he had to be?


The attached lists almost all of the RT's from CCN circa 71.
This is a 6 X 6-foot canvas tarp with a bulls eye painted in the center and “Bullseye” (flight call sign for CCN) written above it. This hung in the flight crews ready room of the MLT-2 compound at Quang Tri.

In October of 1971 there was a farewell gathering for CWO Gary Yates, B/158 AHB/101st ABD. The Bullseye Flight Insignia was signed by many of the recon team leaders and members, and then given to CW2 Yates along with a CCN plaque thanking him for his service to SF. Some team members wrote comments which had special meaning based on a particular mission or just reflecting the attitude of the RTs.

RT Team: Names: Statements:
Habu
L. D. McGlathern “The Lord giveth and Habu’s CAR-15’s taketh away”
Robert E. Cook
Richard D. Brackhausen

Habu
Nicholas Von Brakhousen “Baron 1st Class”

Intruder
SSG Risto Cherman
Sgt. Fraile

Cobra
William J. Kiempe “To Stump”
Ronald Davidson
Guy Wagy “ To the Chopper Jockey who busted my cherry”
Bac-si Malone

Rattler
Sgt. Bieber

Louisiana
John Levister
Ray Frovarp
Ed Weatford

Python
Sgt. Jim Baldwin

Idaho
Castillo
Pully

New Jersey
Sgt Don F. Murphy
Sgt. John H. Waters
Sgt. Tom B. Arbett

Kansas
George Cohrell
Mark Mcpherson

Virginia
Colin L. Chaffee

Sidewinder
Sgt. Sparling
Sgt. Laurent

Michigan
Bob Bolyon
Jean Shanky

Connecticut
J. Clegg

Mamba
Roger Pope
Mark Pollock

ASP
Sgt. Jim J. Thompson
Bill Quean

Adder
William S. Casa
Ronald C. Fletcher

Bushmaster
Eldon A. Bargewell
Jean Paul Castagna
Glenn A. Baggeth

Halo TM#3
Jim “Tub” Bath (JD)

Covey ML-2
Dave “Big Indian” Cheney

Georgia
(Jimmie) Johnson

Krait
Hendrick “Mud Hole” Waters

North Carolina
Ray Robinson

Moccasin
Johnny W. Elia
Steve Grish

Mississippi
Sgt. Folbre
Sgt. Page

Oklahoma
“Fast Eddie” Anderson
“No Spleen” Ross
Jim Kiehne “Doc”

C. Kennedy “Covey Dude”

“Hostile Man”

Connecticut Class & Deboner from 3 tight ass’s
Quang Tri BDA
SSG A. B. Smith
Sgt. “Twitch” Twidell
Sgt. “Snow Mobile” Bradow

Crusader
Injun Adams
Reese (Pee Wee)

[snowmman 3]

The book "The Blood Road" (author: John Prados) puts Duncan and Braden together for Leaping Lena, the start of the whole SOG shebang. (edit) I think Duncan was the source for that info, to Prados.

Tell the guys you talk to, bruce, about that. (what I posted).

They all hate Duncan, because of what he wrote and said over the years.

I wonder if Braden ever talked about the early years, and jumping? Did Braden ever have a close connection with Duncan?

Have to find Duncan!

[snowmman 3]

Bruce said "Hardy also said that a private investigator was also looking for Braden at the same time and had in fact contacted Hardy, looking for information on Braden."

We know where Ted B. Braden died and when. We know he had some minor court issues a couple years before he died, in the same area. So he likely was living in that area. (The PA area we mentioned).

We have names on the ex-wife, and the daughters of the wife from a prior marriage. I think we know the (ex?) husband of one of those daughters. The problem is they seem to have moved around recently.

I've never seen anything that suggested San Francisco.