DB Cooper

[snowmman 3]

Started Plaster's second book. "Secret Commandos".
His first tried to be an all-encompassing retelling of every story he could find.

This one is more personal. Plaster's story.

page 85. He's pulling Bright Light duty with his RT Illinois. I recounted how his initial RT New Mexico had all been killed before he completed a mission with them. It took a while before he got assigned to a new RT..interestingly led by a black guy, Ben. Ben was brilliant in his tactical detail and training of his team. Ben really focused on getting his guys back.

Plaster has this conversation with a Huey pilot:


That first day of Bright Light, a Huey crew chief took a few minutes to show me his aircraft, from the instrument panel to the extraction rigs, machine guns, and intercom system. It all made more sense to me after that - except I still didn't understand how these guys could fly through antiaircraft fire, day after day, noisy sitting ducks in the open sky.

"The happiest I am," I told him, "is when I get off that bird, and get away in the jungle. You have to be nuts to fly in and out of hot LZs like you do."

"We're nuts?" he responded. "You guys are fucking crazy to get off the helicopter!"

Well, we were all probably a bit unbalanced to do what we were doing.

[georger 267]

Quote

I agree with you Georger. The key is to stay focused on what Cooper did and how he did it.

Asking other jumpers, airbornes soldiers, etc. if they would do the jump is really a distraction - it leads the mind and the investigation away from the cetntral clue: who Cooper was.

To whit: Can we tell, based upon Cooper's actions, did Danny think he was prepared to jump successfully?

I say yes: He was calm, generally, all throughout the 2.5 hours cicling Sea-Tac, plus the hours on the ground and then in the air.

Albeit, he got cranky with the re-fueling provocations and delays, and he got child-like when he saw the money, but all indications are that Danny was satisfied with his plan, the parachutes provided, the weather, the DZ, and all the rest.

Eight Raleigh's and a boubon and 7-Up seems reasonable for a guy doing a long-haul, multi-hour crime.

Cooper was on center stage for what, five hours? That's a long time to be on the hot-seat. He never broke a sweat. To me, that is incredibly important.

So, what kind of person can do that?

Psychotics? Nope; they'd never be able to keep their act together for five hours. Maybe five minutes, but that's all.

Folks who know it's an inside job and their safety is guaranteed? Yeah, but that takes us into some nebulous areas. Let's save this option until I have more on MKULTRA and the de-sensitization of SOG vets and Special Forces.

The stoic calm of those who are well-trained, smart, prepared, and who have extreme confidnece in their abilities?

Yup. I go for the later. Danny displayed all the qualities of a seasoned SOG vet. Rain, forest canopies, HALO conditions, cold, dark, enemies all around, no friendlies anywhere - sure sounds like another day at the office for a SOG trooper. Billy Waugh agrees with that assessment, and I put great weight on Billy's persepctives. I protested the ying-yang out of the Vietnam War, but Billy's seven tours of duty and eight purple hearts give him tremendous credibility in this area.

Now, there is one more cateogry of potential mind-set that we can add, namely, some one who has a degree of training and expertise but has also had their personality fractured so that they are de-sensitized to certain dangers.

They can still function at a high degree in most circumstances, and since their anxieties have been corralled a bit they might be able to do some remarkable things for a short period of time.

Someone like Barb characterizes this group. McCoy has some of these qualities, too. He did okay on the jump, but was lousy on his end game.

To compare Danny to "regular" folks and conclude that Danny was inept, stupid, and possessed a death-wish, etc. is a central, fundamental persepctive that shapes all of one's subsequent investigation. How an investigator views Cooper determines everything else.

Bruce Ive snipped your post to the above critical
points, as I see this. I basically agree with everything
you've said with a few minor exceptions -

*Ideally, an investigator should approach a case
with an open mind lead only by the evidence with
no preconceptions and build a profile based on what
the criminal did. This rarely happens however. Bias
is a fundamental part of all investigation and it
shows itself in the Cooper case very clearly.

On the other hand, I think the FBI did better than
many people believe and may have even come
close to a breakthrough, without knowing it? That
also happens in investigations. I remain convinced
there is evidence we know nothing about which
could prove very worthwhile.

*Cooper dealt with the pressure, or so it appears.
We really do not know what was going on under
the surface with him internally. Training, as you
point out comes in many forms. 9-11 proved that.
Someone bent on suicide can keep calm. What
stands out to me is the open opportunity Flight
#305 presented if only for a brief period of time
in a specific locale. Within that context Cooper
chose the most vulnerable day supposedly acting
out a "grudge". Out of a forest he chose a specific
tree to use. Very likely Cooper's grudge was shared by others also emotionally charged.

We donot know (no evidence) if the grudge was
personal or socially shared including planning.
It is worth noting that an informant would have
been highly useful to Cooper if he did not have
one. The FBI basically asserts Cooper acted alone
without planning. The odds for that could be
estimated.


* "Can we tell, based upon Cooper's actions, did Danny think he was prepared to jump successfully?"

Unless he was suicidal the answer has to be yes.
The crucial word is "successful". Only Cooper could
define that, but based on his actions throughout
the whole event, I think "escapre" was paramount
in his mind, even if it meant sacrificing money.
That fact alone could account for the money at
Tina Bar.

The snag in that idea is the fact Danny waited so
long for refueling. Why did he risk more time on
the ground if his intent was to parachute
immediately after takeoff near Seattle? And he
did get cranky to leave. He had a chute on at takeoff. He immediately began working the door.
But he waited for a full load of fuel which is not
required if he does not intend to go the full flight.
Maybe he wanted the plane to go the full route
and be gone, for some reason (that in his mind
might add up to confusion for those searching...
which means he did not know parachuting the
plane would cause a physical effect!), but if this
is true it only enhances his ambition for an
escape first and foremost.

Cooper knew or suspected he was traveling south.
If he could see the Moon and could find west he
had a clock on time elapsing, if he knew when the Moon would set (which he could get from a newspaper). All you have to be is educated to
make such guesstimates.

One point I am confused about is the amount of
actual communication that was going on between
Tina and the cockpit, in behalf of Cooper. Somehow
the plane got slowed to accomodate Cooper
parachuting. If this was at Cooper's instigation
then it applies to your question and would appear
the person was trying to be successful in the jump.

Somehow the plane got slowed and leveled to accomodate Cooper jumping. Whether this was initiated soley by the crew or through a series
of communications (maybe only one?) between
Tina and the cockpit via intercom, in behalf of
Cooper, I am unclear about.

If Cooper asked for the plane to be slowed, then what was his reference for thinking there was a need? Turbulence at the back? Just a guess on Cooper's part? If it doesnt go to Cooper's training then it must a part of his general intelligence and monitoring his own plans intending to jump,
successfully. An indication he was not suicidal
in the clear sense.

Let me post this much and see where this goes -

But I think you are doing perceptive work.

[snowmman 3]

georger said "If Cooper asked for the plane to be
slowed, "

Cooper couldn't get the stairs down.
There was an exchange with the cockpit.
The flaps went to 30 to slow the plane, to get the stairs down.
We don't know exactly when Rat moved the flaps back to 15.

This is all in the FBI report we have, written afterwards.
http://n467us.com/Data%20Files/Logs%2006-20-2008R.pdf

(edit) reading that report
flaps went to 30 at 7:40 (corrected)
flaps went back to 15 sometime before 8:10? Maybe before Cooper jumped.

(edit) I would note we've been over this a hundred times. What's new here?

[nigel99 610]

Quote

Maybe he wanted the plane to go the full route
and be gone, for some reason (that in his mind
might add up to confusion for those searching...
which means he did not know parachuting the
plane would cause a physical effect!), but if this
is true it only enhances his ambition for an
escape first and foremost.

That is an interesting observation. Assumming a person with experience of exiting a jet - provided they had not always been first out - would know about the pressure waves.

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[nigel99 610]

Quote

By going out backward that is probably what helped him to survive the jump. Now I know some of you experience divers are going to disagree with this.

On what basis or assumptions do you think exiting backwards helped him live?

As a side note - did you know that a very large number of people who panic on exiting an aircraft go into the fetal position?

Lastly I wish that you would drop the insistance that Duane was Cooper and your vendeta against the FBI - posts like the one I am replying to show a large amount of careful thought and observation and you could probably contribute quite alot if you lost the bias.

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[377 22]

Orange, as an economist and jumper you'd love this. The DZ just lowered the ticket price to $17 in an effort to get more market share. The benefits of having 6 DZs in the area are amazing. Who in their right mind would be a DZO?

I had never thought much about the refueling but it is an interesting point. I wonder if he was guessing on being able to open the 727 ventral door and was thinking about a multi hop Cuba trip if he couldn't exit by jumping? Why would he risk all that ground time refueling if he was planning an immediate jump? So many mysteries and ambiguous clues.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[snowmman 3]

Quote

Quote

Maybe he wanted the plane to go the full route
and be gone, for some reason (that in his mind
might add up to confusion for those searching...
which means he did not know parachuting the
plane would cause a physical effect!), but if this
is true it only enhances his ambition for an
escape first and foremost.

That is an interesting observation. Assumming a person with experience of exiting a jet - provided they had not always been first out - would know about the pressure waves.

I don't understand this.
There was no one jumping out of 727s with stairs attached when Cooper jumped.
C-141 was side exit
What pressure wave experience would anyone have in 1971??

[snowmman 3]

Quote

Orange, as an economist and jumper you'd love this. The DZ just lowered the ticket price to $17 in an effort to get more market share. The benefits of having 6 DZs in the area are amazing. Who in their right mind would be a DZO?

I had never thought much about the refueling but it is an interesting point. I wonder if he was guessing on being able to open the 727 ventral door and was thinking about a multi hop Cuba trip if he couldn't exit by jumping? Why would he risk all that ground time refueling if he was planning an immediate jump? So many mysteries and ambiguous clues.

377

If he had enough fuel, and it was already dark, there were plenty of options on where to jump. Better weather was south.
Maybe he was thinking he might not be able to jump in WA because of the weather, but it looked okay to him when he got the stairs open.

If he had no clue where he was when he jumped, and was just a whuffo jumping anywhere, why not wait till they got further south?

[nigel99 610]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Maybe he wanted the plane to go the full route
and be gone, for some reason (that in his mind
might add up to confusion for those searching...
which means he did not know parachuting the
plane would cause a physical effect!), but if this
is true it only enhances his ambition for an
escape first and foremost.

That is an interesting observation. Assumming a person with experience of exiting a jet - provided they had not always been first out - would know about the pressure waves.

I don't understand this.
There was no one jumping out of 727s with stairs attached when Cooper jumped.
C-141 was side exit
What pressure wave experience would anyone have in 1971??

I understood that the general discussion of late had been the potential that someone with previous experience or knowledge of 727 could be involved.

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[377 22]

Quote

I don't understand this.
There was no one jumping out of 727s with stairs attached when Cooper jumped.
C-141 was side exit
What pressure wave experience would anyone have in 1971??

In jumping a DC 9-21 ventral door (with stairs removed) I still felt very distinct pressure events as each jumper ahead of me left the plane. Not sure of the mechanism, might have been a pressure wave reflection off the body as it hit the sliptream but it was very distinct, not subtle. I felt it way forward in the cabin while I was still in my seat and the first exits had started.

Lots of paratroopers on dropzone.com made C 141 side door jumps. Maybe one of them can tell us if there were perceivable pressure bumps on exits.

I keep wondering how Cooper planned to get back to civilization without help from an accomplice. Any bedraggled wet hitchhiker at that time would have gathered attention. Hiking all the way to town might also have gathered attention right after the hijack. What was Cooper's egress plan? There were no Hueys on call to extract him.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[snowmman 3]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

Maybe he wanted the plane to go the full route
and be gone, for some reason (that in his mind
might add up to confusion for those searching...
which means he did not know parachuting the
plane would cause a physical effect!), but if this
is true it only enhances his ambition for an
escape first and foremost.

That is an interesting observation. Assumming a person with experience of exiting a jet - provided they had not always been first out - would know about the pressure waves.

I don't understand this.
There was no one jumping out of 727s with stairs attached when Cooper jumped.
C-141 was side exit
What pressure wave experience would anyone have in 1971??

I understood that the general discussion of late had been the potential that someone with previous experience or knowledge of 727 could be involved.

Those jumps in 1971 had the stairs removed, and a ramp inserted.

I don't know where people are getting this possible prior knowledge of pressure bumps from, in 1971.

[nigel99 610]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

Maybe he wanted the plane to go the full route
and be gone, for some reason (that in his mind
might add up to confusion for those searching...
which means he did not know parachuting the
plane would cause a physical effect!), but if this
is true it only enhances his ambition for an
escape first and foremost.

That is an interesting observation. Assumming a person with experience of exiting a jet - provided they had not always been first out - would know about the pressure waves.

I don't understand this.
There was no one jumping out of 727s with stairs attached when Cooper jumped.
C-141 was side exit
What pressure wave experience would anyone have in 1971??

I understood that the general discussion of late had been the potential that someone with previous experience or knowledge of 727 could be involved.

Those jumps in 1971 had the stairs removed, and a ramp inserted.

I don't know where people are getting this possible prior knowledge of pressure bumps from, in 1971.

simply speculation on my part extrapolated from georgers comment.

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[Orange1 0]

Quote

Orange states:

Quote

I thought Carr said they took the interview over the phone? I don't recall anything about the clerk showing up at the office.

I am also wondering if someone can keep on accusing (repeatedly and in a public forum) a federal employee of lying about doing their job,, without repercussions when the person has no first hand (if any) knowledge that said employee is actually lying. When does this become slander?

Orange and all, I only know what I am told and I am repeating what I was told. I have a copy of the notarized statement the night clerk provided to the Portland FBI office. Carr did wks later call the night clerk only after I commented he had NOT acknowledged the notarized statement nor mentioned this witness going into the Portland Office or to this forum.

As for Slander - I can prove what I have said about the Night Clerk and the FBI knows this. I can also Prove another agent lied to me in 2000. You forget the times he chastized me - in this forum.

Remember he promised to send me the files and claimed he thought I already had them - hence he made the criminal record (limited) available in this forum. Remember all of the other statements he made that were only his ideas or opinions and not the facts of the case? Would you just call those his impressions or that he lied about these things?

What you said indicates our government can say and do whatever they want (which they do over and over). It also indicates that I as a citizen have no rights (what rights we have are slowly being taken away).

To believe our government and it employees have never lied to the pubic equates with believing in Fairy Tales.

Do you know how many government officials thru out the US as of these last few yrs have gone to prison for mulitple crimes involving fraud, theft, violations of rules and regulations, felony, grand theft, misuse of their government position, falsification of documents, etc? The list is endless and more and more officials are being added to the enormous list daily.

The people of America are saying "No More - this has to stop" . We have to be able to trust our elected officials and government employees - but, that is not the case anymore. Dirty politics and greed dictate now. They usually go for yrs before they are caught and then their penalties are less than it would be if a regular citizen had commited the same crime in a private or non-government entity.

So off subject again - Right! Your mention of Slander gave me reason to stand up for MY RIGHTS.

Jo, you can diatribe all you want about the governmnent, but you specifically stated Larry Carr lied. That's not the same thing. He's not "another agent in 2000". And chastising you is not the same as lying. As for the "chastising", if i read back I am still amazed at the patience and courtesy Carr showed you despite the way you continually crapped all over him. In fact I don't remember him chastising you. Perhaps you regard the fact that he proved you wrong on certain issues as being "chastised"?

You claim you can prove something about someone not many of us believe has told you the truth. You are aware people lie in notarized statements when it suits them too - particularly if there are unlikely to be repercussions.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[snowmman 3]

review how Martin Joseph McNally got home after his jump.
And he was a whuffo.

Here's a funny news page:
has news about McNally, Heady, and McCoy all on the same page.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=888&dat=19720701&id=w9IMAAAAIBAJ&sjid=3mADAAAAIBAJ&pg=7236,132544

I've seen varying numbers on how many hijacks occured post Cooper where they demanded ransom and parachutes

This article on Jun 29,1972 says ten by then.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=heELAAAAIBAJ&sjid=tVcDAAAAIBAJ&pg=4591,3765537&dq=mcnallly+hijack

[Orange1 0]

Quote

Orange, as an economist and jumper you'd love this. The DZ just lowered the ticket price to $17 in an effort to get more market share. The benefits of having 6 DZs in the area are amazing.

Microeconomics 101

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[georger 267]

Quote

I think that the profile the FBI developed after all of these yrs - is influenced too much by the profilers that know absolutely nothing about the 60's and 70's. The young people are unable to know what some of the old timers know from that era - and it makes a difference.

[We/I dont know much about any formal profile
the FBI was using, outside of what H said and H was
outspoken on what he thought. But Bruce seems
correct about this, By 1980 and the money find the
FBI was in a box unable to explain central facts
in the case with new facts surfacing, eg Bohan,
the money find etc. The excavation took place at
Tina Bar and the FBI had a new explanation, then
that began to erode. So many years have passed
now its impossible to know what the FBi is saying,
except as related by Jerry Thomas ... and Jerry
Thomas is related the same mantra H had back
in the 1971. Jerry even claims Carr is not up to
speed. Who knows what the FBi is thinking today
or if there even is an official viewpoint?]



The language that was used was prison language, but he was polite.

[snowmman 3]

I've listed the demands of the various hijackers.

interesting here, I think this is McNally
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=UtwRAAAAIBAJ&sjid=Fu0DAAAAIBAJ&pg=5050,3092701

demanded chutes, a military-type shovel and a "portable radar scanning device"

McNally produced his machine gun from a trombone case, and the date/location matches, so I think this is McNally.
Also McNally got $502,000
(why 502? who knows)

[snowmman 3]

377: maybe that Cessna could spear you as you're flying your canopy?

http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F10D12FE3A5812718DDDAD0994D1405B868AF1D3


Plane Catches Chutist in Air in Test of Rescue Device; Method Could Work in Vietnam Jungles, Company Asserts

By EVERT CLARK Special to The New York Times

September 14, 1966, Wednesday


GEORGETOWN, Del., Sept. 13--A 27-year-old parachutist, testing a technique that could be used in Vietnam, was snatched safely from the air in midfall today by a plane flying at 120 miles an hour


Apparently it was raining...

In a light rain, a twin-engine ' C-122 plane rigged with a tin.- -like arrangement 34= Ifoot ... Of his more than 800 jumps; 300 have been with 'parachutes. ...

[snowmman 3]

We may have seen this shot already, but it shows the stairs in front, and the car that the guy used to deliver the money?

from http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=3moRAAAAIBAJ&sjid=7uADAAAAIBAJ&pg=6370,6223309&dq=rain+parachute

"A hijacked Northwest Airlines 727 jetliner sits on a runway for refueling at Seattle Tacoma International Airport Wednesday night. The hijacker, who claimed he had a bomb, allowed the passengers to deplane down the ramp. An airlines employee in the car at left delivered $200,000 and four parachutes to the hijacker before the plane took off for Reno, Nev."

picture attached.

It's good for seeing how close the car approached 305.

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

I keep wondering how Cooper planned to get back to civilization without help from an accomplice. Any bedraggled wet hitchhiker at that time would have gathered attention. Hiking all the way to town might also have gathered attention right after the hijack. What was Cooper's egress plan? There were no Hueys on call to extract him.

I think this is why Cooper needed to get back to PDX - and why the boat was such an issue to one of the suspects. The authorities checked for abandoned cars - but how quickly did they do that and how extensive was this search. I know one car was checked out and it had been left there by a business man. How extensive did they do this particular search and how extensive did they check the backgrounds of anyone whose car was left in the area? Did they check for stolen cars?

What if a woman stored a car in a warehouse - a vehicle in her name - somewhere near PDX or Sea Tac. Maybe 2 cars where in the vicinity and not in the name of any suspect. Maybe an accomplice was staying in the area waiting for him to call or use his 2 way radio he powered with the battery in the brief case?
Maybe the accomplice was in the area on the pretense of visiting family - and the family had NO knowledge of the suspect.


What if the car used actually belonged to someone living in the WA area who would not have been suspect - perhaps this person was military and on deployment, but the vehicle was use by a family member during the holidays?

Because Cooper knew the area very well he knew that if he landed in certain areas - where he could go for cover and then to make a contact with the accomplice if there was actually one. .

Say Cooper acted on his own and there was NO 2 way radio or any means of communications. How did he get out of the area. Use the storage of a vehicle by a military person on deployment senario. Now how would he do this without anyone knowing. If he had knowledge of a vehicle or vehicles stored in the area and access to the storage area - easy as pie. The victim would not know their vehicle was missing until they returned or if there was obvious signs of a break-in. Since Cooper returned the vehicle prior to their return from deployment - the service man never knew it was missing.

Now I know you guys will shoot holes in this - but what if that service man was in somehow involved with someone Cooper knew?

Nigel 99 - Note I am taking your advise to heart - but I still say Duane was Cooper because I KNOW he was - but I will stop harping on the FBI. By contributing "senarios" such as the above it will contribute to the solution.

Now Nigell99 - you asked me why I brought up the question of backing down the aft-stairs. I was basing that on nothing other than the nightmare Duane had and with his right hand extented and the scream of "I am going to die".

Nigel99 - What I was wanting was feed back from Jumpers of if it was feasible to jump from that position and what would the consequence would have been. Would it have increased his survival rate? I was fielding something I have thought about since 1996 when I found out who Dan Cooper was.

Remember I have NO knowledge of jumping and have never been close to a chute - only from pictures and a distance.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[377 22]

Quote

Nigel99 - What I was wanting was feed back from Jumpers of if it was feasible to jump from that position and what would the consequence would have been. Would it have increased his survival rate?

Let's see what Nigel says but from my experience (1 DC 9 jet jump on a nice sunny day in Illinois carrying only five twenties) it wouldn't have made much difference if I went out facing forward or rearward. Just get clear of the plane without snagging anything, arch hard to get stable, slow down to terminal velocity and pull. No special exit attitude or posture needed.

I looked up after my jet exit and saw a few experienced jumpers go unstable immediately after leaving the plane. Some were flipping and spinning, but they arched and within a few seconds they were belly to earth in stable freefall.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[377 22]

Quote

GEORGETOWN, Del., Sept. 13--A 27-year-old parachutist, testing a technique that could be used in Vietnam, was snatched safely from the air in midfall today by a plane flying at 120 miles an hour


Apparently it was raining...

In a light rain, a twin-engine ' C-122 plane rigged with a tin.- -like arrangement

C 122 was a very rare predecessor to the C 123. The C 122 was essentially a Chase CG 18 military glider with a couple of engines hung on it. Only about 20 were made.

http://www.photovault.com/show.php?cat=Military/AirForce?tg=MYFVolume12/MYFV12P06_15

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[377 22]

Quote

Maybe an accomplice was staying in the area waiting for him to call or use his 2 way radio he powered with the battery in the brief case?

Jo,

By most accounts that bomb battery was a large 1.5 volt dry cell. It would not have been suitable for powering a two way radio. Ask any of the amateur radio operators who post here which include all your favorites, even Sluggo, Snow and Georger.

You need a higher voltage than 1.5 volts for two way communication radios. I have never seen one that ran on 1.5 volts. 12 volts is common. You could make a converter but it would be a crazy idea with two six volt lantern batteries being widely available and easily connected in series for 12 volts.

I'd love to think Cooper had a radio transceiver but I see zero evidence that he did. The battery is not a two way radio battery, believe me.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[BruceSmith 3]

Recap on Ted Braden, August 18, 2009


Today, I interviewed Jim Hetrick, leader of the national SOG organization, about Ted Braden. He had some very strong opinions about Ted

“I don’t like the man,” Jim Hetrick said. “I have no use for the man, no respect for the man, and he came close to getting us whacked by doing a lot of dumb-assed stuff.”

Jim said that Braden was his team leader in RT Colorado, long after the time of Don Duncan, who Jim Hetrick doesn’t care for, either. “He’s (Duncan) not welcomed around here, or with the SOG guys – he’s a real b**l s**t artist.”

As for Braden, Jim said Ted was just out for himself, and was dangerous to run an operation with. Braden took numerous unnecessary risks.

“He was a piss-poor leader,” Hetrick said. “We did a lot of trail-walking,” which I take to mean roaming in the jungle and risking exposure instead of sitting put in a observatory position, concealed and safe.

“I disliked the man tremendously,” Hetrick said one more time.

Hetrick also said that Braden worked a lot of angles.

“You can make up any story about Ted Braden and they could be true.”

Hetrick said that when Braden went missing in Vietnam, the SOG vets all thought that he had “gone over” to the North Vietnamese.

Hetrick also said that when RT Colorado came back from a mission that, unlike all the other recon teams that would de-brief at Saigon HQ together, Braden would go to Saigon alone for the de-briefing.

“He’d fly back in a CIA airplane and it would waggle its wings to let us know that Braden was back and that we’d have to go down and pick him up.”

Hetrick said that Braden liked to “hang with the embassy-types,” and that he often wore a short-sleeved white shirt and tie, and would “hang in the CIA bar in Saigon” (the Caravelle?).

“He could have been building deep-cover – who knows?” said Hetrick. Like I said, you can make up any story about Ted Braden and it might just be true.”

After Ted disappeared, Hetrick said that another SOG vet saw Braden sitting four rows ahead on a train in Thailand. He said Braden turned at one point and looked the guy straight in the eye, but never acknowledged him or gave any response or recognition.

“Maybe Braden was running drugs,” Hetrick said.

Hetrick said that just prior to Braden’s going missing in Vietnam (Hetrick never once said ‘AWOL’ or ‘disserted’) Braden was charged with the murder of an “RFP in Hue and was placed under house arrest.”

He subsequently was transferred out of SOG into Project Omega, which was then absorbed back into SOG under an Op-35 arrangement, or something akin to that.

Just prior to all of that, Hetrick said that SOG CO General Bull Simmons began to suspect Braden was falsifying his singular after-action reports, so he assigned a Navy Seal to “run with us” in RT Colorado.

“I later learned the Seal was an Intel guy and was sent to check on Braden,” Hetrick said.

Hetrick said that the Seal refuted Braden’s accounts and that Braden was discredited. Then Braden was sent to Project Omega.

Hetrick said that Braden was rumored to have passed a lot of bad checks before he left. Also, Hetrick knew that Braden had a wife, who lived in Florida, and he went to see her after he left Vietnam and they had a kind of spree.

Braden resigned his officer’s commission, Hetrick said, over a fuss over blousing dress blues with jump boots, or something like that.

Braden was highly provocative and argumentative - even violent. Once he spit in the face of the company commander, and the two had to be physically separated.

“He was bad news when he was drinking,’ said Hetrick. “I know – I used to be a drinker myself, but Braden was different. He’d get squirrelly. He was a wild man when he was drinking.”

Further, “He was a crazy man,” said Hetrick. One of my friends was surprised to see me still alive after he had been away from camp for awhile – he was so sure Braden was going to get me killed.”

Lastly, “I don’ think Ted Braden was DB Cooper. He didn’t look at all like the sketches I saw of DB Cooper.”

[snowmman 3]

Quote

“I don’t like the man,” Jim Hetrick said. “I have no use for the man, no respect for the man, and he came close to getting us whacked by doing a lot of dumb-assed stuff.”

I LOVE IT BRUCE.

Hetrick looks like the corporate man in the photo from the dinner I posted. But I knew he was bad ass, from his recon days.

I love that an old guy can still talk straight, and say exactly what he thinks!
Excellent!. These guys were no-bullshit, and they're still no-bullshit.