georger 268
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snowmman 3
Quote
Braden is a lose cannon. That is what attracts you
to him as a candidate who would do a hijacking
and possibnly get away with it. But frankly, the Cooper hijacking is beneath Braden's level. He wouldnt waste time on such a petty stunt especially if the personal risks were too great. Braden is a skunk but not stupid or crazy (as McCoy was). In
the end self preservation means the most to Braden, over country, family, and everything.
How do you reconcile that view then with Braden just returning to the US and being a truck driver?
You're saying he's too dramatic to hijack...i.e. you say "He wouldnt waste time on such a petty stunt"
Yet you're willing to accept that his life post vietnam was just drinking, wife-beating, and truck driving?
(edit) Geoger: I'm trying to understand your profiles, but they don't seem to include all available information. You see what I mean?
(edit) after all of Braden's jumping...do you think Braden ever jumped again after he returned to the U.S?
If not, how do you reconcile that with your profile of him?
(edit) It's interesting to muse if Braden's family situation mirrored McCoy's closely. Young kids + bitch wife.
snowmman 3
georger said "He would merge with others for a common cause
only so long as it benefited himself and the minute
it doesnt for any extended period of time, he is
AWOL in a serious way. Waugh would classify this
as a weakness, from a leadership point of view. "
I don't know Waugh, but I think you have Waugh wrong.
Waugh is very mission focused.
Waugh would say "Whatever makes the mission succeed, is by definition, correct".
If there are secondary wins, like everyone coming back alive, then Waugh would back that.
You're familar with how many people died (montagnards) on one of Waugh's missions were they infiltrated an NVA camp?
A lot.
only so long as it benefited himself and the minute
it doesnt for any extended period of time, he is
AWOL in a serious way. Waugh would classify this
as a weakness, from a leadership point of view. "
I don't know Waugh, but I think you have Waugh wrong.
Waugh is very mission focused.
Waugh would say "Whatever makes the mission succeed, is by definition, correct".
If there are secondary wins, like everyone coming back alive, then Waugh would back that.
You're familar with how many people died (montagnards) on one of Waugh's missions were they infiltrated an NVA camp?
A lot.
snowmman 3
Georger said "They brought Braden back in but only after serious
effort. He had needed skills. "
No f*ing way. I'm not sure you read stuff posted Georger.
Braden thought he had skills.
The CIA thought he only had information, that they didn't want him to have.
They didn't make him an offer to use his skills.
They made him sign something promising not to reveal info.
He pretty much revealed info anyhow.
He wanted money/job that matched his skills.
He bitched that no one offered...in fact complained he was black listed by CIA, which gave him no opportunities...
effort. He had needed skills. "
No f*ing way. I'm not sure you read stuff posted Georger.
Braden thought he had skills.
The CIA thought he only had information, that they didn't want him to have.
They didn't make him an offer to use his skills.
They made him sign something promising not to reveal info.
He pretty much revealed info anyhow.
He wanted money/job that matched his skills.
He bitched that no one offered...in fact complained he was black listed by CIA, which gave him no opportunities...
Orange 1 The issue most veteran's have to deal with is the great loss of inocense. Guilt of taking other live's. Nightmare's .The question's of what could have been done to avoid a lethal sititiation. What could they have done to keep from losing a team member. And for the rest of there live's, second guessing themselve's. Even worse family and friend's don't understand them.Nor can they understand why you feel the way you do, your high's your low's. You feel powerless because you can't stop the killing. You continue to find your place in life ,allthough you feel worthy you can't help but feel unworthy, because of the live's that you have taken or the family you deprived of a loved one . These are just a few of the feeling's combat Vet's hide. Most remain in the military untill they retire Other's get out for a short period of time and still other'stay out and turn to drug's and end up with a miserable life some catch a strong hold but still eventially end up depressed and are able to hide it with help from other's.Every one is allway's effected There are those you never hear about. War No One win's .We are all deprived of somthing good that could have taken place by a life instead of a death. There are many more thing's that take place .However you wold have to live it to understand it. Those of us that do deal with it, does it at a great cost. Still some of us understand it . Those of us that do still have all these feeling's and want to help the other's but Know we can't do it alone and that there is no drug that can help . Time maybe counseling understanding prayer and a lot of space. What helped me was the wood's and still does. I have few close friend's. The one's I do have are Vet's. Few exception.s. The Home's I own have few neighbor's. The one on the ocean ,the closest neighbor is over 5 mile's away.The close'st neighbor in Oregon is 1 mi away. In both case's the nearest store is 14 mile's away This is how it has been since I retired from the military. Jerry
georger 268
QuoteQuote
Braden is a lose cannon. That is what attracts you
to him as a candidate who would do a hijacking
and possibnly get away with it. But frankly, the Cooper hijacking is beneath Braden's level. He wouldnt waste time on such a petty stunt especially if the personal risks were too great. Braden is a skunk but not stupid or crazy (as McCoy was). In
the end self preservation means the most to Braden, over country, family, and everything.
How do you reconcile that view then with Braden just returning to the US and being a truck driver?
You're saying he's too dramatic to hijack...i.e. you say "He wouldnt waste time on such a petty stunt"
Yet you're willing to accept that his life post vietnam was just drinking, wife-beating, and truck driving?
(edit) Geoger: I'm trying to understand your profiles, but they don't seem to include all available information. You see what I mean?
(edit) after all of Braden's jumping...do you think Braden ever jumped again after he returned to the U.S?
If not, how do you reconcile that with your profile of him?
(edit) It's interesting to muse if Braden's family situation mirrored McCoy's closely. Young kids + bitch wife.
Braden's truck driving is an interlude from his
main occupation, obviously. Some people spend
time in an abbey! (others wind up in a ward for a
time).
The family dynamics are similar - thats not
unusual.
georger 268
Quotegeorger said "He would merge with others for a common cause
only so long as it benefited himself and the minute
it doesnt for any extended period of time, he is
AWOL in a serious way. Waugh would classify this
as a weakness, from a leadership point of view. "
I don't know Waugh, but I think you have Waugh wrong.
Waugh is very mission focused.
Waugh would say "Whatever makes the mission succeed, is by definition, correct".
seems we are saying the same thing. take a break..
???
georger 268
QuoteGeorger said "They brought Braden back in but only after serious
effort. He had needed skills. "
No f*ing way. I'm not sure you read stuff posted Georger.
Braden thought he had skills.
The CIA thought he only had information, that they didn't want him to have.
They didn't make him an offer to use his skills.
They made him sign something promising not to reveal info.
He pretty much revealed info anyhow.
He wanted money/job that matched his skills.
He bitched that no one offered...in fact complained he was black listed by CIA, which gave him no opportunities...
I am aware of what you posted. We have a different
interpretation. Everyone got what they wanted/needed in the end?
Geoger .Just catching up on all the past post. However on your point of view of Awol being considered a weakness In a Leadership point of view is correct especially durring war time. AS the saying goes you may not want to play the game. But at least show up support is valuable. Jerry
snowmman 3
Thanks Jerry for that post.
I know you usually aren't one to share a lot, but thanks, that was a good post. Helps to learn.
I know you usually aren't one to share a lot, but thanks, that was a good post. Helps to learn.
snowmman 3
Georger theorized "Braden's truck driving is an interlude from his
main occupation, obviously."
So you think Braden got hooked up in the mercenary or CIA business again after he returned to US? I've not found anything that would suggest that, although I don't have anything that says where he got his money, only a weak statement that he was a truck driver.
You're saying it's likely Braden killed again? Waugh I don't think ever killed again. He had some CIA jobs (green badge and blue badge), but to be honest, I think Waugh's CIA work was kind of boring? (edit) Waugh implies in his interviews that he's moving to fiction because he can't deal with the CIA reviews that limit what he can write...but I'm half thinking it's really because he might not have many great stories post-vietnam?
Can you expand georger? I really don't get your profile...seems like you're stretching for a possible Braden life stateside, that has no basis in typical experience for someone like Braden?
How did you come up with that profile? Are you comparing him to a known person?
main occupation, obviously."
So you think Braden got hooked up in the mercenary or CIA business again after he returned to US? I've not found anything that would suggest that, although I don't have anything that says where he got his money, only a weak statement that he was a truck driver.
You're saying it's likely Braden killed again? Waugh I don't think ever killed again. He had some CIA jobs (green badge and blue badge), but to be honest, I think Waugh's CIA work was kind of boring? (edit) Waugh implies in his interviews that he's moving to fiction because he can't deal with the CIA reviews that limit what he can write...but I'm half thinking it's really because he might not have many great stories post-vietnam?
Can you expand georger? I really don't get your profile...seems like you're stretching for a possible Braden life stateside, that has no basis in typical experience for someone like Braden?
How did you come up with that profile? Are you comparing him to a known person?
snowmman 3
QuoteQuoteGeorger said "They brought Braden back in but only after serious
effort. He had needed skills. "
No f*ing way. I'm not sure you read stuff posted Georger.
Braden thought he had skills.
The CIA thought he only had information, that they didn't want him to have.
They didn't make him an offer to use his skills.
They made him sign something promising not to reveal info.
He pretty much revealed info anyhow.
He wanted money/job that matched his skills.
He bitched that no one offered...in fact complained he was black listed by CIA, which gave him no opportunities...
I am aware of what you posted. We have a different
interpretation. Everyone got what they wanted/needed in the end?
I don't know if Braden got what he wanted. He wanted to stay in the Congo, but thought he was blacklisted.
It'd be really interesting to know Braden's life from 66 to 72
The article was printed in '67, so the experience in '66 was still raw and fresh in his mind.
How did he feel about it 4 years later??
Was he hooked up with the woman and 3 kids when he wrote the article?
(edit) How long did Duncan stay in touch with Braden after the article???
Duncan continued (and still does) speak out anti-war (see the Sir! No Sir! documentary link I posted..recent Duncan was in it if I remember correctly...)
Orange, you had asked why I didn't remember the name on the ticket. This is a question I have asked myself many times.
I was just impressed by how old the ticket was and I was very pressed for time during that part of my life. I do not know if I noted the name - but then Dan Cooper didn't mean anything to me around Feb of 1994.
I had little time to dwell on things:
I worked 6 days a wk for 10 hrs plus and then come home to take care of Duane around 8PM.
I had a route I had to do everyday and reports to do after I got ready for bed. On Sundays I would cook several meals and put them in the freezer for him to have while I worked. I also did most of the lawn work that last yr. On Sunday I also did the laundry and ironing (yes, I ironed then and still do). He was driving and would go visit friends and he helped his friends - Duane would do anything for anyone - all he expected was a kind word and a smile. He was very generous with his time, money and doing something for others.
Note that the nature of my work required I collect money from policy holders and write new business. You might be interested to know I was the only agent who didn't have to look at my collection book to know my next stop. To this day I will see one of my own client and recognize them but not be able to recall their name. Selective memory I guess - outside of that I don't have an excuse or a reason why I do not remember the name on the ticket.
Duane and achohol:
When he had no more than 3 or 4 drinks - he was a well put together person - this is when he would sing in public and he was very very good - it released his inhibitions if he had any. When he drank excessively - he was a pussy cat, but somehow managed to functions with the exception of one DUI during our marriage.
I never saw him loose control in anger drinking. Duane was not an achololic but I did see him pretty drunk about 4 or 5 times prior to 1990 - He had to stop drinking when he went on the machine ---but he had not been able to tolerate alcohol for about 2 yrs prior to that. Kidney disease in the end stage - is life altering.
Each episode I remember him being drunk corresponds to activity involving the Cooper story. Now I know that sounds ODD and it is not something I had given much thought to until alcohol was mentioned in some posts recently. The postings made me think about Duane and alcohol......
1962 to 1966 - I wish I could find more about these yrs on Duane - the yrs of John C. Collins. He is seen in Miami in 1962 and had known associations within the JMWave associated companies. He spoke about prior military training in VA...I never understood what or when or why he made a statement regarding this while we lived there......
There is basically nothing known about Duane from 1945 until 1950....other than the interference of family members when he was sent to McNeil in WA state and he was not there but for a very short time before being placed in a special camp nearer to his parents...(I had asked the FBI to check into this but they never did), but WE did. Note that the McNeil file shows Duane was born in 1920 - therefore why he was NOT kept within the McNeil prison for any lenght of time...not when they found out he was actually born in 1924 and that he had been in the ARMY and NAVY. Maybe they thought he was salvageable.
1962 - 1967 he spends his life as John C. Collins and then 1967 and 1968 in prison in Jefferson - WHY would anyone commute a sentence of a 5 time looser who had already spent 15 yrs in 5 other prison prior to that time? Regardless of how many Commuations where given - this made NO common sense at all.
Sorry I am just recapping things in his life I make NO sense out of and putting it with recent finds.
Around 1949 another suspect in the Skyjacking was in prison in Oklahoma....but don't know from what yr to what yr. This person and Weber hinted at covert action. Both made similar claims about several things - both connected to the same things and the same groups of people.
Both connected to 2 specific individuals with certain connections. Yes, I have names but I cannot make those available on this forum. These 2 lives have too many parallels to ignore - but to go there is to go where you guy have gone, but to take it one step further.
I was just impressed by how old the ticket was and I was very pressed for time during that part of my life. I do not know if I noted the name - but then Dan Cooper didn't mean anything to me around Feb of 1994.
I had little time to dwell on things:
I worked 6 days a wk for 10 hrs plus and then come home to take care of Duane around 8PM.
I had a route I had to do everyday and reports to do after I got ready for bed. On Sundays I would cook several meals and put them in the freezer for him to have while I worked. I also did most of the lawn work that last yr. On Sunday I also did the laundry and ironing (yes, I ironed then and still do). He was driving and would go visit friends and he helped his friends - Duane would do anything for anyone - all he expected was a kind word and a smile. He was very generous with his time, money and doing something for others.
Note that the nature of my work required I collect money from policy holders and write new business. You might be interested to know I was the only agent who didn't have to look at my collection book to know my next stop. To this day I will see one of my own client and recognize them but not be able to recall their name. Selective memory I guess - outside of that I don't have an excuse or a reason why I do not remember the name on the ticket.
Duane and achohol:
When he had no more than 3 or 4 drinks - he was a well put together person - this is when he would sing in public and he was very very good - it released his inhibitions if he had any. When he drank excessively - he was a pussy cat, but somehow managed to functions with the exception of one DUI during our marriage.
I never saw him loose control in anger drinking. Duane was not an achololic but I did see him pretty drunk about 4 or 5 times prior to 1990 - He had to stop drinking when he went on the machine ---but he had not been able to tolerate alcohol for about 2 yrs prior to that. Kidney disease in the end stage - is life altering.
Each episode I remember him being drunk corresponds to activity involving the Cooper story. Now I know that sounds ODD and it is not something I had given much thought to until alcohol was mentioned in some posts recently. The postings made me think about Duane and alcohol......
1962 to 1966 - I wish I could find more about these yrs on Duane - the yrs of John C. Collins. He is seen in Miami in 1962 and had known associations within the JMWave associated companies. He spoke about prior military training in VA...I never understood what or when or why he made a statement regarding this while we lived there......
There is basically nothing known about Duane from 1945 until 1950....other than the interference of family members when he was sent to McNeil in WA state and he was not there but for a very short time before being placed in a special camp nearer to his parents...(I had asked the FBI to check into this but they never did), but WE did. Note that the McNeil file shows Duane was born in 1920 - therefore why he was NOT kept within the McNeil prison for any lenght of time...not when they found out he was actually born in 1924 and that he had been in the ARMY and NAVY. Maybe they thought he was salvageable.
1962 - 1967 he spends his life as John C. Collins and then 1967 and 1968 in prison in Jefferson - WHY would anyone commute a sentence of a 5 time looser who had already spent 15 yrs in 5 other prison prior to that time? Regardless of how many Commuations where given - this made NO common sense at all.
Sorry I am just recapping things in his life I make NO sense out of and putting it with recent finds.
Around 1949 another suspect in the Skyjacking was in prison in Oklahoma....but don't know from what yr to what yr. This person and Weber hinted at covert action. Both made similar claims about several things - both connected to the same things and the same groups of people.
Both connected to 2 specific individuals with certain connections. Yes, I have names but I cannot make those available on this forum. These 2 lives have too many parallels to ignore - but to go there is to go where you guy have gone, but to take it one step further.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
snowmman 3
Sluggo: are you clear on the name being Horner, not Homer.
You said were going to ask the FBI about Homer.
Did you see my post with the correct name?
I've not been able to find names of Canadian KIA in vietnam.
Does anyone know where they keep them? The Canada numbers are smaller. I'm not sure they have online "wall" memorials like U.S.?
Joseph Edward Horner
Windsor, Ontario
You said were going to ask the FBI about Homer.
Did you see my post with the correct name?
I've not been able to find names of Canadian KIA in vietnam.
Does anyone know where they keep them? The Canada numbers are smaller. I'm not sure they have online "wall" memorials like U.S.?
Joseph Edward Horner
Windsor, Ontario
snowmman 3
Did Braden and Duane assassinate JFK?
This would be a good claim, because I could start analyzing stills from that day in Dallas. I just found a good site with a lot of photos I hadn't seen before.
Good for 1000 posts more or so?
This would be a good claim, because I could start analyzing stills from that day in Dallas. I just found a good site with a lot of photos I hadn't seen before.
Good for 1000 posts more or so?
Orange1 0
QuoteSluggo: are you clear on the name being Horner, not Homer.
You said were going to ask the FBI about Homer.
Did you see my post with the correct name?
I've not been able to find names of Canadian KIA in vietnam.
Does anyone know where they keep them? The Canada numbers are smaller. I'm not sure they have online "wall" memorials like U.S.?
Joseph Edward Horner
Windsor, Ontario
Horner and Homer of course can look very similar, especially when handwritten in lower case. Easy mistake.
Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.
snowmman 3
Found Canada's equivalent to the US's "Wall" for Vietnam KIA.
Guess where it is: Windsor, Ontario, birthplace of Horner.
Name list here
http://www.glanmore.org/cdncas/memorialair.html
It's a list of Canadians serving in US Forces. (canada didn't send troops)
But Horner isn't listed ?????
The North Wall
Canadian Vietnam Veterans' Memorial
located in Windsor, Ontario
In Remembrance of Canadians who
Made the Ultimate Sacrifice while
serving In United States Forces during the Vietnam War
from another site
"The significance of the Canadian Vietnam Veterans Memorial in Windsor, Ontario, Canada, is that a small group in Michigan U.S.A. called M.A.C.V. (Michigan Association of Concerned Veterans), felt that their Canadian brothers and sisters, who gave their lives for the lives of others deserved to be recognized and accounted for, at home in Canada. This small group of Veterans proceeded to make this dream a reality, They fought through the many hardships that comes with caring, they designed, built, and donated the memorial to be placed on Canadian soil, making this Memorial very special to the families of those who gave their lives for the freedom of others."
Guess where it is: Windsor, Ontario, birthplace of Horner.
Name list here
http://www.glanmore.org/cdncas/memorialair.html
It's a list of Canadians serving in US Forces. (canada didn't send troops)
But Horner isn't listed ?????
The North Wall
Canadian Vietnam Veterans' Memorial
located in Windsor, Ontario
In Remembrance of Canadians who
Made the Ultimate Sacrifice while
serving In United States Forces during the Vietnam War
from another site
"The significance of the Canadian Vietnam Veterans Memorial in Windsor, Ontario, Canada, is that a small group in Michigan U.S.A. called M.A.C.V. (Michigan Association of Concerned Veterans), felt that their Canadian brothers and sisters, who gave their lives for the lives of others deserved to be recognized and accounted for, at home in Canada. This small group of Veterans proceeded to make this dream a reality, They fought through the many hardships that comes with caring, they designed, built, and donated the memorial to be placed on Canadian soil, making this Memorial very special to the families of those who gave their lives for the freedom of others."
Orange1 0
Jo, the point I was making was simple.
You noticed the date because it was unusual.
It would presumably have been unusual for Duane to have someone else's old ticket, so if it was in another name I am guessing you would have remembered at least that fact, even if you didn't remember what the name was.
Therefore, I would bet it was in Duane's name.
Was it Snow who posted all that stuff about selective memory?
You noticed the date because it was unusual.
It would presumably have been unusual for Duane to have someone else's old ticket, so if it was in another name I am guessing you would have remembered at least that fact, even if you didn't remember what the name was.
Therefore, I would bet it was in Duane's name.
Was it Snow who posted all that stuff about selective memory?
Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.
snowmman 3
Did Braden actually get some other passport/name?
I can't find Horner.
Maybe Braden misremembered something about Horner (he said he was from Windsor, Ontario, and was Canadian)
maybe he was lying, to protect the passport (in case of future use??))
I can't find Horner.
Maybe Braden misremembered something about Horner (he said he was from Windsor, Ontario, and was Canadian)
maybe he was lying, to protect the passport (in case of future use??))
snowmman 3
I didn't realize, but apparently about 30,000-40,000 Canadians served with US Forces in Vietnam, from 1959 to 1975.
good wiki here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada_and_the_Vietnam_War
Canadians in the U.S. military
In counter-current to the movement American draft-dodgers and deserters to Canada, about 30,000 Canadians volunteered to fight in southeast Asia.[41] Among the volunteers were fifty Mohawks from the Kahnawake reservation near Montreal.[42] One-hundred-and-ten Canadians died in Vietnam, and seven remain listed as Missing in Action. Canadian Peter C. Lemon was awarded the U.S. Medal of Honor for his valour in the conflict. (This cross-border enlistment was not unprecedented: In both the First and the Second World War, tens of thousands of Americans had joined the Canadian forces whilst their homeland was still neutral.)[citation needed]
In Windsor, Ontario, there is a privately funded monument to the Canadians killed in the Vietnam War.[43] In Melocheville, Quebec, there is a monument site funded by the Association Québécoise des Vétérans du Vietnam.[44] However, many Canadian veterans returned to a society that was strongly anti-war. Unlike in the United States, there were no veterans organizations nor any help from the government. Many of them moved permanently to the United States. There has been ongoing pressure from Canadian Vietnam veterans to have their comrades' deaths formally acknowledged by the government, especially in times of remembrance such as Remembrance Day.
good wiki here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada_and_the_Vietnam_War
Canadians in the U.S. military
In counter-current to the movement American draft-dodgers and deserters to Canada, about 30,000 Canadians volunteered to fight in southeast Asia.[41] Among the volunteers were fifty Mohawks from the Kahnawake reservation near Montreal.[42] One-hundred-and-ten Canadians died in Vietnam, and seven remain listed as Missing in Action. Canadian Peter C. Lemon was awarded the U.S. Medal of Honor for his valour in the conflict. (This cross-border enlistment was not unprecedented: In both the First and the Second World War, tens of thousands of Americans had joined the Canadian forces whilst their homeland was still neutral.)[citation needed]
In Windsor, Ontario, there is a privately funded monument to the Canadians killed in the Vietnam War.[43] In Melocheville, Quebec, there is a monument site funded by the Association Québécoise des Vétérans du Vietnam.[44] However, many Canadian veterans returned to a society that was strongly anti-war. Unlike in the United States, there were no veterans organizations nor any help from the government. Many of them moved permanently to the United States. There has been ongoing pressure from Canadian Vietnam veterans to have their comrades' deaths formally acknowledged by the government, especially in times of remembrance such as Remembrance Day.
snowmman 3
I clicked thru likely names on the Canadian "Wall" looking for people Braden might have used.
I think this is a good match
Note Randolph Edward Hatton has same initials and kind of similar syllabic length.
Killed by Mortar, like Braden says.
-- General / Personal ---
Last name: HATTON
First name: RANDOLPH EDWARD
Home of Record (official): CANADA
State (official): XC
Date of Birth: Friday, December 15, 1939
Sex: Male
Race: Caucasian
Marital Status: Single
--- Military ---
Branch: Army
Rank: PFC
Serial Number: 51775067
Component: Selective Service
Pay grade: E3
MOS (Military Occupational Specialty code): 11C10
--- Action ---
Start of Tour: Saturday, January 20, 1968
Date of Casualty: Thursday, November 14, 1968
Age at time of loss: 28
Casualty type: (A1) Hostile, died
Reason: Artillery, rocket, mortar (Ground casualty)
Country: South VietNam
Province: Tay Ninh
The Wall: Panel 39W - Row 066
snowmman 3
Great webpage here from the US National Archives
http://www.archives.gov/research/vietnam-war/casualty-lists/xx-by-town.html
doesn't have the detail of the canadian wall entries, but it's a single table with grade, service, home town, date of death, place of death, date of birth
includes other countries besides canada.
surprising.
let's see, it would have to be before 1966 that the guy got KIA?
CAMPBELL RANDALL KENNETH LCPL MARINES CANADA 25APR65 S.VIETNAM 18SEP44 HOSTILE, KILLED
AUVE, DANIEL LOUIS PAUL PFC MARINES CANADA 21APR66 S.VIETNAM 15OCT47 NON-HOS. DIED-OTHER
SUTHONS, MELVIN HAROLD PFC MARINES CANADA 18JUN65 S.VIETNAM 03FEB44 HOSTILE, KILLED
STALINSKI, STEFAN ZBIGNIEW PFC MARINES CANADA 08JUL65 S.VIETNAM 29MAY45 NON-HOS. DIED-OTHER
WELSH, RUTHERFORD J WO ARMY CANADA 27JUL66 S.VIETNAM 09JUN42 NON-HOS. DIED-MISS.
Or maybe this guy? age is good (born 1928)
WILLIAMS, THOMAS MURRAY SGT ARMY CANADA 18JUL66 S.VIETNAM 27APR28 NON-HOS. DIED-ILL,INJ
http://www.archives.gov/research/vietnam-war/casualty-lists/xx-by-town.html
doesn't have the detail of the canadian wall entries, but it's a single table with grade, service, home town, date of death, place of death, date of birth
includes other countries besides canada.
surprising.
let's see, it would have to be before 1966 that the guy got KIA?
CAMPBELL RANDALL KENNETH LCPL MARINES CANADA 25APR65 S.VIETNAM 18SEP44 HOSTILE, KILLED
AUVE, DANIEL LOUIS PAUL PFC MARINES CANADA 21APR66 S.VIETNAM 15OCT47 NON-HOS. DIED-OTHER
SUTHONS, MELVIN HAROLD PFC MARINES CANADA 18JUN65 S.VIETNAM 03FEB44 HOSTILE, KILLED
STALINSKI, STEFAN ZBIGNIEW PFC MARINES CANADA 08JUL65 S.VIETNAM 29MAY45 NON-HOS. DIED-OTHER
WELSH, RUTHERFORD J WO ARMY CANADA 27JUL66 S.VIETNAM 09JUN42 NON-HOS. DIED-MISS.
Or maybe this guy? age is good (born 1928)
WILLIAMS, THOMAS MURRAY SGT ARMY CANADA 18JUL66 S.VIETNAM 27APR28 NON-HOS. DIED-ILL,INJ
snowmman 3
Looking at Horners on the US Wall
really sobering because they show when the guy's tour stated in vietnam, and when he died. Many in just a couple months.
Here's a Horner that was in the military for 12 years.
He died just 2 months after he got to Vietnam.
William Horner.
Was a MACV advisor.
http://thewall-usa.com/info.asp?recid=24161
Here's more data on Horner from a MACV-SOG MIA/KIA page
http://www.macvsog.org/1965.htm
10 Jul 65; William Horner, SSGT E-6, USASF, MACVSOG, Ops 34, Agent Drop-KIA
year is good: 1965 (before 1966)
older, so better match for Braden??
Ops-34 mean that Braden would have known about it..
OP-34 from http://www.vietnamgear.com/dictionary/sog.aspx
OP-34: Airborne Studies Division
Based at Long Thanh, OP-34 supervised the training of Vietnamese agents before inserting them into North Vietnam to conduct intelligence and sabotage activities.
(edit) Braden's article said Horner died at "Long Than" so matches?
Maybe Braden didn't want to admit he stole a US soldiers's passport..in a US magazine????
really sobering because they show when the guy's tour stated in vietnam, and when he died. Many in just a couple months.
Here's a Horner that was in the military for 12 years.
He died just 2 months after he got to Vietnam.
William Horner.
Was a MACV advisor.
http://thewall-usa.com/info.asp?recid=24161
Here's more data on Horner from a MACV-SOG MIA/KIA page
http://www.macvsog.org/1965.htm
10 Jul 65; William Horner, SSGT E-6, USASF, MACVSOG, Ops 34, Agent Drop-KIA
year is good: 1965 (before 1966)
older, so better match for Braden??
Ops-34 mean that Braden would have known about it..
OP-34 from http://www.vietnamgear.com/dictionary/sog.aspx
OP-34: Airborne Studies Division
Based at Long Thanh, OP-34 supervised the training of Vietnamese agents before inserting them into North Vietnam to conduct intelligence and sabotage activities.
(edit) Braden's article said Horner died at "Long Than" so matches?
Maybe Braden didn't want to admit he stole a US soldiers's passport..in a US magazine????
What makes all SOG people special is their very strong sense of self preservation and the skills
to effect that, under very adverse conditions the
normal person would not tolerate (much less like).
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