DB Cooper

[377 22]

Seller says:

"THIS IS THE SAME MODEL HALO HAT USED BY THE LIKES OF THE LEGENDARY FRANK NORBURY DURING MACVSOG (VIETNAM) CROSS BORDER HALO INFILTRATION JUMPS."

Legendary huh, let's see what Billy W says about who is legendary.

http://cgi.ebay.com/SKYDIVE-HELMET-SF-HALO-FREE-FALL-PARACHUTE-w-COMMO-ELEC_W0QQitemZ280378791151QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item4147e0d4ef&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

Very pricey! Not being legendary or aspiring to such, I think I'll stick with my 68 vintage Bell 500 or a cheap Protec.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[skyjack71 0]

I have never understood how the Brown Satchel became a dark colored briefcase or visa versa.

There were a couple of accountings that referred to the brief case as a satchel. A satchel can be referred to as a bag. A satchell certainly would have been easier to attach to the harness because of the hardware and loops of canvass. A canvass bag could have held boots along with a bomb.

These satchels where about 12 to 14 inches deep and 12 to 17 inches long and averaged about 8 inches wide. Duane owned one of these I didn't get rid of it until he died - he never used it and I never saw it until 1990.

Just a curiosity to throw out there - as one of the stewardesses referred to it as a satchel - I believe that was in Tosaw's book if my memory serves me right. Not going to go looking for it. It is something I have asked Himmelsbach about many time and I never really got an answer from him or the FBI in regards to the satchel thing.

Remember that Tosaw had one of the rare opportunities to interview Tina Muchklow.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[snowmman 3]

377 mused "Any guesses? Or do they just shoot from the hip based on preconceived unproven theories about who Cooper was? "

There are a couple rules on the yellow postit notes in the cubicles in Seattle

1) If it comes from DZ.com, it's wrong.
2) Unless it involves comic books; then it's right.
3) Tom Kay is the lead Citizen Scientist.
4) But ignore what he says on TV.

At the monthly all-hands meeting, the troops are exhorted to get out there, and find the kid with the dead uncle, who found his comic books.

I wonder how much old Dan Cooper comic books are worth? The documentary had some real ones there...did the FBI buy some? or did someone else? Or was Cooper found and those are Cooper's comic books????

Hey the Sham Wow guy is good (just arrested recently though)
Billy Mays just died. A true Pitchman. RIP.

[377 22]

1) If it comes from DZ.com, it's wrong.
2) Unless it involves comic books; then it's right.
3) Tom Kay is the lead Citizen Scientist.
4) But ignore what he says on TV.

LOL, literally Snow. I can see one you missed using my image convolver algorithm and best match mask:

5) Get some dirt on Snowmman, before he gets some on us.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[snowmman 3]

http://www.skydivewithjohn.com/documents/HistoryofHALOOperations.pdf

I looked for Frank Norbury. I think he mostly did training and jumpastering? I'm not sure he did any of the combat jumps we discussed.

Frank was one of the "most respected freefall instructors at Fort Bragg, ..dispatched to Long Thanh to lend his assistance. Together with another freefall specialist, Master Sergeant Harry Denny, he created the Norden light..."

etc etc.

Look at the url and search for "Frank"

He, along with Harry Denny, Cliff Newman, Melvin Hill, George Zacker and "a handful of other HALO specialists, had established a freefall course at Long Thanh and began training a mixed class of Americans and South Vietnamese"

he's listed as jumpmaster on at least one of the combat HALOs.

[JerryThomas 0]

Orange 1. Believe me. The name has been researched.For both Theorys.Now as far as the Viet Nam Vet theory goes. Any military man know's not to jump out of a plane with loafer,s They also know it is important to survival to have good foot gear, because with out your feet your chance's of survival drop's into the honey pot.This is why it is believed that he wasn't a Vet. Jerry

[snowmman 3]

Quote

Orange 1. Believe me. The name has been researched.For both Theorys.Now as far as the Viet Nam Vet theory goes. Any military man know's not to jump out of a plane with loafer,s They also know it is important to survival to have good foot gear, because with out your feet your chance's of survival drop's into the honey pot.This is why it is believed that he wasn't a Vet. Jerry

Hi Jerry. That sounds right. Do you have information about Cooper's shoes?

I was looking at some pictures of jumpers from back then, and their shoes. Got me wondering how well a civilian could distinguish between good shoes and bad shoes.

Hmm. The Vietnam HALO guys broke bones no matter what shoes they wore. Just reading that, makes me think that shoes were a small part of the matter, in terms of injury possibility.

Who decided shoes were a primary issue, Jerry? I would think the possibility of landing in a tree (night) dwarfs that concern.

(edit) And if Jerry's correct, why did the FBI talk to Rex Jaco??
And why was Carr pursuing a loadmaster???? A loadmaster is military? Wouldn't know about shoes though??

Doesn't make sense to me.

[JerryThomas 0]

Snowmann. Sorry far not responding sooner.I was on the phone.Yes jumper's broke a few bone's.However they still had a landing site and a route, Call it escape and evasion or in some case's retragrade.Not many jump's were made in Nam.It did hapen and the Hallo jumps were dangerious.Foot gear is the most important part of survival. How ever in nam the temperture would allow you to travel with out to much damage to the feet.Bare in mind that this is not the only element you would have to over come.Many other's did exist.As far as Cooper case is concerned he was not aware of the inviroment or did not realize that air flow would rip his shoe's off.Still he had alot of gut's but no common sense.Now your question on shoes being a primary issue. This is common knoeledge. No Shoe's No Travel.The conditions he landed in was very hostille. Richard McCoy landed in the desert and broke his ankle. Do you think that cooper would not have broke something . At the very least he would have had a Fir tree Inemia. Jerry

[snowmman 3]

If I was an inexperienced comic-book collector, what kind of shoes would I jump in?

(edit) Jerry, are you saying you think Cooper would have been disabled when he landed in the muddy farm fields? I've never jumped, so wouldn't know.

I guess I forgot how you pinpointed his LZ.

[JerryThomas 0]

Snowmman. Yes it would be kind of hard to walk around with a fir tree up your butt, Or your feet frozen. In November the streams hadn't been water to long The water temperture is just above freezing in this area. Your feet go numb and your body temperture drop's.Hyperthermia sets in. Then with the ambuliant tempertutre combined. This causes paralises and you go to sleep then Die.Jerry

[Sluggo_Monster 0]

Check this out:

This Article


It seems Lyle Christiansen (Kenneth Christiansen's brother) didn’t like the Nat-Geo program.

And Tom Larson is so sure that Christiansen was Cooper that he gets confused and calls him “Kenneth Cooper.” Now that’s good journalism, I don’t care who you are. Get R Written!

I don’t usually post entire text of articles but the link above requires registration, so here’s (the text of) the article:

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Not convinced D.B. Cooper film gets it right

Morris’ Lyle Christiansen says documentary was well done but ‘was barking up the wrong tree’ by discounting compelling evidence that his brother was the notorious skyjacker. See a rebroadcast at 2 p.m. Sunday
By Tom Larson
Morris (Mn) Sun Tribune

A National Geographic Channel documentary that aired for the first time last weekend claimed it would shed new light on the D.B. Cooper hijacking mystery using modern technology and the expertise of citizen sleuths.

But after seeing the film, a Morris man who believes the legendary sky pirate was his brother said he isn’t convinced the evidence presented in the film proved anything definitively.

Lyle Christiansen still believes his late brother, Kenneth, was D.B. Cooper and that he not only survived the parachute jump from a jet with $200,000 in cash in 1971 but lived another 23 years and used much of the money to help people who were down and out.

“I think they did a good job with the show, but a lot of it was barking up the wrong tree,” said Lyle Christiansen.

He said statements made by FBI agents in the documentary about Cooper are contradicted by other evidence, and he can’t buy the idea that a bundle of the money that was key to their presumption that Cooper died in the jump hinged on the bank bag somehow being snagged on the propeller of a ship.

D.B. Cooper is the focus of the hour-long reenactment documentary that will be rebroadcast at 2 p.m. Sunday on the National Geographic Channel.

The documentary, “The Skyjacker That Got Away,” was first broadcast last Sunday.
Lyle Christiansen has said he has evidence that D.B. Cooper very likely was his brother, Kenneth, who died in 1994.

Some of the documentation and photographs Christiansen supplied to a private investigator and the documentary’s production company, Edge West LLC, was used in the film.

Christiansen said that until a few years ago, he had never heard about D.B. Cooper, even though the November 1971 skyjacking and extortion ploy – seen by many as a modern-day Robin Hood story -- captivated millions, spawned songs, a movie, books, countless searches and thousands of suspects, and led to sweeping security changes in the airline industry.

In a nutshell, D.B. Cooper – more accurately, Dan Cooper -- is the alias used by a passenger who boarded a Northwest 727 on Thanksgiving eve 1971 and told a flight attendant that he had a bomb in his brief case. The plane, which took off from Portland bound for Seattle-Tacoma Airport, landed and $200,000 in $20 bills and four parachutes were brought aboard. Then, he instructed the flight crew to take off for Mexico City.

Once on the ground, passengers and much of the flight crew left the plane, and the FBI and Northwest officials met all of Cooper’s demands. Minutes after the plane took off, aft stairs unique to the 727 were lowered and Cooper leapt into the rainy, cold darkness with two of the parachutes, the money and the brief case.

Except for the discovery of about $5,800 of the ransom, found nine years later, neither Cooper nor the bulk of the money were ever found.

Lyle Christiansen, who until a few years ago, never knew about D.B. Cooper, has spent many hours researching the subject after becoming convinced by an “Unsolved Mysteries” segment on the hijacking and extortion.

Two years ago, a private investigator, Skipp Porteous, began looking into Christiansen’s claims and his work led to a long piece in “New York Magazine” that strongly suggested that Kennenth Christiansen was D.B. Cooper.

Lyle Christiansen also points to a 1985 book, “D.B. Cooper: What Really Happened?”, by the late Max Gunther. In it, Gunther claims to have spent many hours on the phone talking to someone claiming to be D.B. Cooper. Lyle Christiansen said numerous details in the book -- some that only Christiansen would know about his brother -- almost positively ID Kenneth Cooper as the instigator of one of the most famous crimes in U.S. history.

Lyle Christiansen has compiled a graph -- which he calls “Same History Association” -- that lists 14 points brought up in Gunther’s book that coincide with Kenneth Christiansen’s life. Lyle Christiansen believes other details were deliberately faked by the caller to conceal his identity, but that nonetheless contain hints that Kenneth Christiansen had to be the caller.

Many of D.B. Cooper’s mannerisms -- including the type of cigarettes he smoked, his drink order of bourbon and 7-UP, his language -- were in keeping with Kenneth Christiansen’s way of life.

In the “Skyjacker That Got Away,” FBI agents who have worked on the case over the decades claim that D.B. Cooper almost certainly died in the jump from the plane.

Kenneth Christiansen was a Northwest Orient flight attendant who had pay grievances against the airline. He told a flight attendant on the plane, “It’s not that I have grievances against your airline. I just have grievances.”

He was an expert paratrooper who also knew how fast and at what altitude the plane would need to be flying for him to survive a jump. He also knew that the 727 was the only plane with aft stairs, which would allow him to jump without being smashed into the plane.

Other evidence shows that Kenneth Cooper bought a house with cash just weeks after the hijacking. The flight attendant who spoke with Cooper also stated that, of the thousands of possible suspects, Kenneth Christiansen’s photo came the closest to matching her recollection of the hijacker.

In the documentary, a photo of Kenneth Christiansen was superimposed with a sketch of the hijacker and the match was striking.

“That was pretty telling,” Lyle Christiansen said.

Lyle Christiansen also noted that, as Kenneth battled cancer, he told Lyle that “There’s something you should know but I can’t tell you.”

“He probably didn’t want to end up in jail at the end of his life,” Lyle Christiansen said. “He couldn’t tell me because he was afraid it would get out.”

But FBI agents and other experts in “The Skyjacker That Got Away,” presented evidence -- particularly relating to the bundles of money found nine years after the hijacking -- that Cooper fell in water and either drown or succumbed to hypothermia before he could get ashore.

Lyle Christiansen shakes his head. He notes that one retired FBI agent said in the documentary that there’s a good possibility Dan Cooper survived that night.

Although he’s knocking on 80 years old, Lyle Christiansen said he’ll be keeping his ears pricked for more on D.B. Cooper, no matter what the experts say.

Learn more about the case by watching “The Skyjacker That Got Away” at 2 p.m. Sunday, Aug. 2, on the National Geographic Channel, and see a November 2007 Sun Tribune story on Christiansen’s research, “Cracking the Cooper case?”, on the paper’s Web site at www.morrissuntribune.com.

To see the story that reinvigorated the D.B. Cooper mystery, see the October 2007 New York Magazine story, “Unmasking D.B. Cooper,” at http://nymag.com/news/features/39593.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Web Page
Blog
NORJAK Forum

[snowmman 3]

Quote

Snowmman. Yes it would be kind of hard to walk around with a fir tree up your butt, Or your feet frozen. In November the streams hadn't been water to long The water temperture is just above freezing in this area. Your feet go numb and your body temperture drop's.Hyperthermia sets in. Then with the ambuliant tempertutre combined. This causes paralises and you go to sleep then Die.Jerry

I've read what accounts I could find of tree landings. I've not read of any anal penetrations. Are they common in tree landings?

Do farmers die if they go outside in the rain in these conditions? I suppose they can only stay outside for 10-15 minutes at a time. That would work.

[snowmman 3]

I think maybe Lyle just didn't understand the science. Or maybe he's more of a faith-based thinker, and the science didn't sway him.

Can't argue with the facts. Or with a propeller for that matter. Ask a dolphin.


(edit) Jo would agree that Gunther's book is a key part of the evidence that Tom ignored for some reason. Maybe he didn't want to pay for the book? I would have lent him mine.

[JerryThomas 0]

Jo you have alway's understood. All you have ever done is use Info from book's to your advantage. Since you and Doug Pasternick got togrther and he published his article.You had no ground's for your claim's.Believe me you still don't. You never will. Take for instance Your first conversation with me was that Duane pointed out to you, as you crossed the cowitz River,on I-5 and said that is where cooper hid the money. And that you could not remember what Bridge you crossed to enter Washington . however you did remember it was in Portland and no stop's were made. So where does, this lead us . Are you going to call Ralph again and have him ,Tell me not to be mean to you(again) or are you going to except reality. It's up to you .You can be a part of this case and help solve it. Your tactic's must Change.All you have done is waist time and Government money with your alligation's. You have even caused havoc with many government official's. All this time you have known the truth involving your claim's. Why! 15 minutes of fame is not worth this deception. Now I can say that I don't understand what would make a muture adult to react like this.Jo I like you, I do understand that you need attention. If you just want to talk and feel Important please , Just call I will be happy to talk to you. Get the message. I hope you do, it's been 15yrs.I realy hope you will face fact's and not build/ Fabricate anymore fantisies Remember! I Know you and have for years.Jerry

[snowmman 3]

Why does it matter why Jo thinks?
There are lots of people that think crazy things.
Jo: You've been sounding a lot more "put together" the last couple weeks. I hope it's because your health is better, and maybe it sounds like you've got some things going on in your life.

Heck: Jo's been at it so long, I think it's probably best if she just sticks with it. I mean why stop now? It's not going to kill her. Heck it might keep her alive! Yahoo! Gotta get your passion from something, even if it's a tree up your butt!

[georger 268]

Those MF weapons are scary, but so are yours and yours leave no trace. How is the EMP prototype coming along? Using 256 of those two farad car stereo capacitors was a great idea.

That terrain in the "two out" shot looks like a very rugged LZ, but you can't see the ground below which could be flat and surrounded by those awesome cliffs.

Even if we dont solve the Cooper case I am learning a lot of new info about the Nam war here which is highly interesting.

I still wonder what the FBI has that allows them to instantly disregard candidates like Sheridan Peterson?

Any guesses? Or do they just shoot from the hip based on preconceived unproven theories about who Cooper was?

377

[georger 268]

Quote

1) If it comes from DZ.com, it's wrong.
2) Unless it involves comic books; then it's right.
3) Tom Kay is the lead Citizen Scientist.
4) But ignore what he says on TV.

LOL, literally Snow. I can see one you missed using my image convolver algorithm and best match mask:

5) Get some dirt on Snowmman, before he gets some on us.

377

Tous les saleté et plat d'amour d'attornies.
Quand vous parachutez vous ressembler à un singe.
Avez-vous l'idée la plus faible ce que je dis ...

[snowmman 3]

Quote

Pourquoi vous penseriez cela. Vos puzzles de processus mentaux je. Vous êtes fasciné par les petites choses qui ne sont pas importantes. pourquoi êtes-vous ici ? Je suis vraiment fatigué de votre merde bête.

It' s niet als dat belediging door Quade wordt beschouwd als in een andere taal.

[snowmman 3]

Quote

Tous les saleté et plat d'amour d'attornies.
Quand vous parachutez vous ressembler à un singe.
Avez-vous l'idée la plus faible ce que je dis ...

Voglio un albero sulla mia parte posteriore.

[JerryThomas 0]

Snowmman . The comment was just To say At the very least a comment. Ir could have happened. Ouchhhhh

[georger 268]

It seems Lyle Christiansen (Kenneth Christiansen's brother) didn’t like the Nat-Geo program.

And Tom Larson is so sure that Christiansen was Cooper that he gets confused and calls him “Kenneth Cooper.” Now that’s good journalism, I don’t care who you are. Get R Written!

[georger 268]

I've read what accounts I could find of tree landings. I've not read of any anal penetrations. Are they common in tree landings?

Do farmers die if they go outside in the rain in these conditions? I suppose they can only stay outside for 10-15 minutes at a time. That would work.

[snowmman 3]

He apparently first voiced the grudge in 1984, just 4 years after the money was found. When this video was made, he had been voicing the grudge for 21 years nonstop.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z02J_kPincA

in another weird coincidence, he echos the "tree falls in a forest" theme that Jo introduced
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8CibAuvZM4

I have no evidence he ever contacted Gunther, though.

[georger 268]

Quote

Orange 1. Believe me. The name has been researched.For both Theorys.Now as far as the Viet Nam Vet theory goes. Any military man know's not to jump out of a plane with loafer,s They also know it is important to survival to have good foot gear, because with out your feet your chance's of survival drop's into the honey pot.This is why it is believed that he wasn't a Vet. Jerry

Here's a link to a DB Cooper-Albert Weinberg
comment that might be interesting, if Snow will
permit changing the conversation from trees
up assholes to "do farmers die at 43F"! (he's
just jerking your chain in case you dont know).

http://comicanuck.blogspot.com/2009/03/pursuit-of-dan-cooper-rcaf-fbi-explores.html

I have one weak statement that the FBi has talked
to Weinberg. Is there more?

Surrounding Weinberg is a whole circle of people.
A kind of cult group of parachutists/hero workshipers/ artsy philosopher types, etc. It
seems impossible they never discussed DB Cooper
and that Weinberg would not have been aware of the Cooper case, and discussed it, possibly had
ideas about it he expressed in some venue. All
from a European perspective of course.

I dont know if you've ever spent much time in
EU, Canada, or Quebec,but its another world
compared to here. Strong anti-American sentiments in Quebec. Its been like this for years. Stark European style poverty in Quebec City for example in the whole post WWII era leading into the 70s.
An anarchists breeding ground, as opposed to
the US SOG forces Snowmman/377 seem to so
enamoured with.

Either the hijacker chose Dan Cooper by accident,
which seems impossible, or it is a direct reference
to the US sterotype "Dan Cooper", and if that is
the case then the choice of the name alone might
reflect an anarchist act. The hijacking then a political
act, not something heroic as so many people think.

Any thoughts?

[JerryThomas 0]

Snowmman. What matter's is that. Alot of people view documentaries. They read magazines. If some one has Info that could help this case and see or read bogus info they will not come forward.They will asume the case is solved.This present's problems. Let's take for instance. The green River killer he was Identified year's before his arrest. But at the time the technoligy with DNA was not Developed .They were steered in many direction's !Why! . Because so many people wanted to be involved and made false alligation's for 15mins of fame. Many more young woman died.Because of fabrcater's .There was so much Info that led into the wrong direction . It took alot of time and money to filter through it. most, of it was false alegation's.This caused delay's . Any time you take a Investigation of any nature ,And side track it. Like Jo has, you loose valuble witnesses and time. Publishishing of any Info is critical. To any Investigation,the efect's Is astronomical. Look at the Forum. For a long period of time most of you thought that Jo had a valid point,Why! because there is now oposition.Now the truth is being told. And all of you can make your own Judgement's.Jerry


make your own judgements.