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Sluggo treads tenderly here, but he raises a valid point about critically examining the issue of Fazio's memory. He reports seeing an extensive money particle field apparently deposited by a recent high tide, but nobody else does.
How could such significant and visually obvious evidence be missed by everyone else investigating the site??? Why were no samples collected? Why would the FBI dig so much if it was obvious that all the money was on the surface? Your thoughts on this Bruce?
Tidal variation in water depths are found far upstream in many major rivers that flow to the sea. Net current flow however is rarely upstream on a flood tide unless it is a dry summer with little downstream fresh water.
***
Excellent points, 377, and ones I have been wondering as I stagger around in another 100-plus day (a week ago our high temps were mid-60s here in Yelm, which is a little cool, but not uncommon - now I feel like a desert iguana - laying low on the ground).
1. Tides. Exactly what are the tidal actions like? Tina's Bar is still pretty far from the actual ocean. My sense is that they are episodic, and dependent on storms and heightened lunar cycles.
2. Lots o' Money. If there was so much friggin' money around, how come the Ingrams didn't see it all before Brian starting spreading the sand? And once the Fazios were there and started going through the tide line clutter, how come they didn't snatch a few souvenirs, particularly when the Feds got involved, or were the Fazios late to the scene? Did they ever go down to the beach when the Ingrams were there? Exactly when did they see all the moola? Hmmm.
How could such significant and visually obvious evidence be missed by everyone else investigating the site??? Why were no samples collected? Why would the FBI dig so much if it was obvious that all the money was on the surface? Your thoughts on this Bruce?
Tidal variation in water depths are found far upstream in many major rivers that flow to the sea. Net current flow however is rarely upstream on a flood tide unless it is a dry summer with little downstream fresh water.
***
Excellent points, 377, and ones I have been wondering as I stagger around in another 100-plus day (a week ago our high temps were mid-60s here in Yelm, which is a little cool, but not uncommon - now I feel like a desert iguana - laying low on the ground).
1. Tides. Exactly what are the tidal actions like? Tina's Bar is still pretty far from the actual ocean. My sense is that they are episodic, and dependent on storms and heightened lunar cycles.
2. Lots o' Money. If there was so much friggin' money around, how come the Ingrams didn't see it all before Brian starting spreading the sand? And once the Fazios were there and started going through the tide line clutter, how come they didn't snatch a few souvenirs, particularly when the Feds got involved, or were the Fazios late to the scene? Did they ever go down to the beach when the Ingrams were there? Exactly when did they see all the moola? Hmmm.
snowmman 3
Bruce said
"I'd like to add a clarification to what I remember Al Fazio saying. He had taken out Tosaw's book, I believe, and flipped to the page with the money laid out. He pointed to the blackened one, and the ones that had lost their edges, become shards, had holes, etc. He said, as best as I can recall, "These are the kinds of bills we saw up and down the tide line. Bits and pieces of damaged, discolored bills."
I've attached the money photo from the Tosaw book.
it's page 95.
The Norjak book has a different photo, from the top.
There really aren't any fragments in the photo? Oh wait, there's one on the top of a stack. Maybe the edges? But most of the edges are missing???
(edit) I don't see "blackened" bills in this photo. I've posted numerous times about brown bills and the black bill issues. (and them not being visible in the top photos we have from 1980.
What black bills are we talking about??
(edit) I'm not going to post bill photos again, but people should remember there are better top shots available from 1980, along with snaps from the color video then (not so good).
The FBI may have photos from 1980 they've not shown us.
"I'd like to add a clarification to what I remember Al Fazio saying. He had taken out Tosaw's book, I believe, and flipped to the page with the money laid out. He pointed to the blackened one, and the ones that had lost their edges, become shards, had holes, etc. He said, as best as I can recall, "These are the kinds of bills we saw up and down the tide line. Bits and pieces of damaged, discolored bills."
I've attached the money photo from the Tosaw book.
it's page 95.
The Norjak book has a different photo, from the top.
There really aren't any fragments in the photo? Oh wait, there's one on the top of a stack. Maybe the edges? But most of the edges are missing???
(edit) I don't see "blackened" bills in this photo. I've posted numerous times about brown bills and the black bill issues. (and them not being visible in the top photos we have from 1980.
What black bills are we talking about??
(edit) I'm not going to post bill photos again, but people should remember there are better top shots available from 1980, along with snaps from the color video then (not so good).
The FBI may have photos from 1980 they've not shown us.
snowmman 3
"Still all I have ever wanted was for this case to be solved before Ralph dies."
Jerry: It's not going to happen. Ralph will die without Cooper being identified. Bank on it. That's reality. No big deal though. Why would Himmelsbach care? His life is bigger than worrying about Cooper.
Jerry: It's not going to happen. Ralph will die without Cooper being identified. Bank on it. That's reality. No big deal though. Why would Himmelsbach care? His life is bigger than worrying about Cooper.
Bruce get serious. Brian does remember the debris field. so do others that were there. Jerry
snowmman 3
QuoteBruce get serious. Brian does remember the debris field. so do others that were there. Jerry
two phrases are being used.
A "debris field" is different than bills or fragments.
Everyone agrees there was debris there. But of what kind?
Brian has given extensive interviews over the years, with varying accounts of the bundle positioning. I documented it well here before. There was never a mention of other bills forming a "debris field"
I suspect people have misinterpreted phrases here.
Who the hell knows.
Seems like bullshit. Especially if Tom Kaye was around when people said stuff like this. Bullshit tends to smear off onto others.
QuoteQuoteGreetings from Tina's Bar, y’all, where it is 101 degrees tonight at 8 pm, or at least that's what the time-temp sign read when I jumped on I-5 and headed back to Yelm.
Bruce I failed to ask... its important.
In all of this did Faxio's say anything about their cows?
Were their cows on the bar? Had they been sending
their cows to the bar during this period?
Anything about their cows during this period?
---------------------------
Also, failed to ask in your conversation with Rat:
Did you ask Rat what he meant by "... and I could
see the suburbs of Portland coming up ...."
This is key in all the Rat testimony.
Thanks.
Georger
1. Cows. The question never came up. I did see cows on the property, however, about twenty in a fairly large pen.
Based on what I saw of the Fazios' current operation, it's hard to see how the cows could have gotten to the river. Or why. There are no good grazing lands between the river and the Fazio work buildings that I saw. But, what were the conditions in 1971, eh?
2. As for Bill Rataczak and Portland, I did not ask him about what he meant by the phrase, "I could see the suburbs of Portland coming up..." I sensed a wall when I asked, "Where were you relative to Portland. Did you fly east or west of Portland, or did you fly over the mettro area."
"I don't know," was his answer and I didn't push it.
georger 268
QuoteQuoteQuoteGreetings from Tina's Bar, y’all, where it is 101 degrees tonight at 8 pm, or at least that's what the time-temp sign read when I jumped on I-5 and headed back to Yelm.
Bruce I failed to ask... its important.
In all of this did Faxio's say anything about their cows?
Were their cows on the bar? Had they been sending
their cows to the bar during this period?
Anything about their cows during this period?
---------------------------
Also, failed to ask in your conversation with Rat:
Did you ask Rat what he meant by "... and I could
see the suburbs of Portland coming up ...."
This is key in all the Rat testimony.
Thanks.
Georger
1. Cows. The question never came up. I did see cows on the property, however, about twenty in a fairly large pen.
Based on what I saw of the Fazios' current operation, it's hard to see how the cows could have gotten to the river. Or why. There are no good grazing lands between the river and the Fazio work buildings that I saw. But, what were the conditions in 1971, eh?
2. As for Bill Rataczak and Portland, I did not ask him about what he meant by the phrase, "I could see the suburbs of Portland coming up..." I sensed a wall when I asked, "Where were you relative to Portland. Did you fly east or west of Portland, or did you fly over the mettro area."
"I don't know," was his answer and I didn't push it.
So these are questions for the future.
You have done SUPERB! work. Big congrats.
Snowmman You could be wrong at least I hope so. But all I have is hope And a determanation to solve this case before he dies. This I will give all I have to do so. I have a positive outlook on this. The funny thing. I do believe I or someone else will solve this case before Ralph dies.The time frame that we now live in is producing, more and more people moving into the areas (search areas) than you possibly can imagine. The area has been highly populated in the past 30 yrs. The growth is now as far as the boderline to the Gifford Pinchot National forrest. The people that live in this area take nature walks deep into the forest. they follow streams. this is mainly the only way this forrest can be navigated. Also logging in this area has been increased. The department of forestry is still selling timber.Longview fiber is still clear cuting certain areas. so its just a matter of time, my belief is that something will be found. Jerry
Snowmann: Flip me and call me upside down. Give Brian a call and ask him.Then make your judgements.Jerry
I’m experiencing a mix of fascination and disgust with the posts here (on this thread) since the airing of the Nat-Geo film. (Excluding Bruce’s trip.)
I go to bed at night, and when I get up in the morning and there are 20 or 30 posts that consists mostly of speculation on issues from the film (which themselves are speculation).
I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again… Budget… Boss… Deadline… ‘nuff said.
If I were a psychology graduate student, looking for a thesis or dissertation subject, I would use the psychology of this thread’s posts since Sunday night as my subject. Speculation becomes fact, and then there is speculation about facts. The snake has managed to get his tail in his mouth and is beginning to swallow itself.
I won’t address individuals, because it’s too time consuming, but here is some “free-association” based on what I read this morning:
Tom’s Science – Tom employs electron microscopes, x-ray spectroscopy, x-ray fluorescence analysis, optical microscopes, infrared photo-spectroscopy, and hopefully some isotopic analysis. This is what he does best (with fossils). This is what he is providing for NORJAK. The Nat-Geo piece focused on Tena Bar. Why did they show Tom closing the shield on a telescope? Maybe, it’s art! (Just let it flow over you.)
Ckret’s Activities – Ckret heads up the Puget Sound Violent Crimes Task Force's Bank Robbery activities. He volunteered to be responsible for NORJAK. He has no extra funding or time allocation for this activity. He (and Robbie Burroughs) drove down to Tena Bar to observe the filming. They were there for a short period of time, then returned to Seattle. He was not expecting to be filmed. If there were films of Robbie, they ended up on the cutting room floor. Don’t hold others to a standard that you would not expect to be held to yourself. (I wasn’t at the Tena Bar filming, if someone who was, wants to dispute what I have said, have at it!)
Phil Day – I was looking forward to the Nat-Geo airing. Now I wish it had never happened. (Now, if it “shakes the trees” and turns up a viable suspect, I’ll reverse this statement.) I discussed the pressure-bump in a great deal of detail with Phil. He fully understood what the “pressure-bump” was. Remember my posts about “reminded me of…” verses “we felt the same…” witness statements. The pressure bump witness statements and description of the drop test are in Document SE164-81 CEF:k1b, Phil has read this document. He understands the pressure bump. What was broadcast? “Captain we’re losing cabin pressure!...” It’s all budget, boss, and deadline. Again, don’t hold others to a standard that you would not expect to be held to yourself.
I tried to warn everybody that no new information would come out of the Nat-Geo program, and that most of the posters here would be disappointed.
So… I am of the belief… that discussions about (perceived) new information from the Nat-Geo program is a colossal waste of time.
Two final thoughts:
Wait for the science… it won’t be disappointing… where ever it leads us.
Those who know aren’t talking, those who are talking… don’t know.
Web Page
Blog
NORJAK Forum
I go to bed at night, and when I get up in the morning and there are 20 or 30 posts that consists mostly of speculation on issues from the film (which themselves are speculation).
I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again… Budget… Boss… Deadline… ‘nuff said.
If I were a psychology graduate student, looking for a thesis or dissertation subject, I would use the psychology of this thread’s posts since Sunday night as my subject. Speculation becomes fact, and then there is speculation about facts. The snake has managed to get his tail in his mouth and is beginning to swallow itself.
I won’t address individuals, because it’s too time consuming, but here is some “free-association” based on what I read this morning:
Tom’s Science – Tom employs electron microscopes, x-ray spectroscopy, x-ray fluorescence analysis, optical microscopes, infrared photo-spectroscopy, and hopefully some isotopic analysis. This is what he does best (with fossils). This is what he is providing for NORJAK. The Nat-Geo piece focused on Tena Bar. Why did they show Tom closing the shield on a telescope? Maybe, it’s art! (Just let it flow over you.)
Ckret’s Activities – Ckret heads up the Puget Sound Violent Crimes Task Force's Bank Robbery activities. He volunteered to be responsible for NORJAK. He has no extra funding or time allocation for this activity. He (and Robbie Burroughs) drove down to Tena Bar to observe the filming. They were there for a short period of time, then returned to Seattle. He was not expecting to be filmed. If there were films of Robbie, they ended up on the cutting room floor. Don’t hold others to a standard that you would not expect to be held to yourself. (I wasn’t at the Tena Bar filming, if someone who was, wants to dispute what I have said, have at it!)
Phil Day – I was looking forward to the Nat-Geo airing. Now I wish it had never happened. (Now, if it “shakes the trees” and turns up a viable suspect, I’ll reverse this statement.) I discussed the pressure-bump in a great deal of detail with Phil. He fully understood what the “pressure-bump” was. Remember my posts about “reminded me of…” verses “we felt the same…” witness statements. The pressure bump witness statements and description of the drop test are in Document SE164-81 CEF:k1b, Phil has read this document. He understands the pressure bump. What was broadcast? “Captain we’re losing cabin pressure!...” It’s all budget, boss, and deadline. Again, don’t hold others to a standard that you would not expect to be held to yourself.
I tried to warn everybody that no new information would come out of the Nat-Geo program, and that most of the posters here would be disappointed.
So… I am of the belief… that discussions about (perceived) new information from the Nat-Geo program is a colossal waste of time.
Two final thoughts:
Wait for the science… it won’t be disappointing… where ever it leads us.
Those who know aren’t talking, those who are talking… don’t know.
Web Page
Blog
NORJAK Forum
snowmman 3
Sluggo said "Tom’s Science – Tom employs electron microscopes, x-ray spectroscopy, x-ray fluorescence analysis, optical microscopes, infrared photo-spectroscopy, and hopefully some isotopic analysis. This is what he does best (with fossils). This is what he is providing for NORJAK. The Nat-Geo piece focused on Tena Bar. Why did they show Tom closing the shield on a telescope? Maybe, it’s art! (Just let it flow over you.)"
Sluggo, you pick and choose the standards you apply to various things. That's fine.
Other people pick and choose different standards. That's fine too.
I'm not you. You constantly seem to want other people to have philosophies that match yours? Am I misinterpreting?
It's a perfectly reasonable thing to expect scientists to not take part in misinforming the public thru smoke and mirrors.
Actually, your point of view gets me wondering about the whole nuke industry! Hopefully you're a singleton.
Sluggo said: "Wait for the science… it won’t be disappointing… where ever it leads us.
Those who know aren’t talking, those who are talking… don’t know."
Yes. That's the whole point. I don't know. Have been waiting since November. Would be fine except we've been teased non-stop with stuff saying "just wait, we've got something".
Our reaction is appropriate and correct.
(edit) Reminder: The show presented itself as being based on new uses of forensic science by Citizen Investigators. If I had to write a paper about it for my science class, what would I write?
(edit) Example: The first attempt at money analysis incorrectly focused on silver, which was a contaminant. How do we decide if the pollen on the tie is a contaminant? (It is mentioned by Tom).
(edit) Example: Is the science about measuring the money find, and saying it was 150' from the dredging, a misapplied fact...that is, did the Fazio's spread the sand from the dredging over that 150'? Previous accounts say the Fazios spread sand on the beach. I think the Fazios said it again recently?
So even that "science" about the dredging sand vs money, is wrong? Why can't we discuss that? Why cut Tom slack on this theory? Tom uses that "fact" to "prove" the money arrived quickly on Tena Bar.
(edit) Example: In the TomsTheory vid, you can see Tom proposes only two LZ's: Lake Merwin for a high pull, Lewis River for a low pull. There is no data presented that validates either of those. In fact we know the analysis from 1972, the search map we have, goes against that, presenting a larger zone (due to the vagaries of prediction). What narrowed the zone from 1972?
So did Tom do some new analysis that created the two LZ possibilities, or not?
So we're reviewing claims Tom made. There's no reason to wait for science. He's already made the claims, with no visible data.
Sluggo, you pick and choose the standards you apply to various things. That's fine.
Other people pick and choose different standards. That's fine too.
I'm not you. You constantly seem to want other people to have philosophies that match yours? Am I misinterpreting?
It's a perfectly reasonable thing to expect scientists to not take part in misinforming the public thru smoke and mirrors.
Actually, your point of view gets me wondering about the whole nuke industry! Hopefully you're a singleton.
Sluggo said: "Wait for the science… it won’t be disappointing… where ever it leads us.
Those who know aren’t talking, those who are talking… don’t know."
Yes. That's the whole point. I don't know. Have been waiting since November. Would be fine except we've been teased non-stop with stuff saying "just wait, we've got something".
Our reaction is appropriate and correct.
(edit) Reminder: The show presented itself as being based on new uses of forensic science by Citizen Investigators. If I had to write a paper about it for my science class, what would I write?
(edit) Example: The first attempt at money analysis incorrectly focused on silver, which was a contaminant. How do we decide if the pollen on the tie is a contaminant? (It is mentioned by Tom).
(edit) Example: Is the science about measuring the money find, and saying it was 150' from the dredging, a misapplied fact...that is, did the Fazio's spread the sand from the dredging over that 150'? Previous accounts say the Fazios spread sand on the beach. I think the Fazios said it again recently?
So even that "science" about the dredging sand vs money, is wrong? Why can't we discuss that? Why cut Tom slack on this theory? Tom uses that "fact" to "prove" the money arrived quickly on Tena Bar.
(edit) Example: In the TomsTheory vid, you can see Tom proposes only two LZ's: Lake Merwin for a high pull, Lewis River for a low pull. There is no data presented that validates either of those. In fact we know the analysis from 1972, the search map we have, goes against that, presenting a larger zone (due to the vagaries of prediction). What narrowed the zone from 1972?
So did Tom do some new analysis that created the two LZ possibilities, or not?
So we're reviewing claims Tom made. There's no reason to wait for science. He's already made the claims, with no visible data.
Okay…. snowttroll, you really didn’t think I let this one pass… did you?
Oh you are misinterpreting all right.
I don’t care about your philosophies any more than I care about your orgasms. You get off trolling (at a very high intellectual level, but trolling none the less). Think what you want to think, say what you want to say. It doesn’t change what I know and what I care about.
Whether you think highly about my professional abilities is another thing that means nothing to me. I stay employed. You know, I was at Stanford for a while. I wonder if you know how many times I have save Los Altos Hills and Stevens Creek from “eminent nuclear disaster.” The next time a nuclear plant melts, or a Tc-99m Cow milks itself on your flight to Dallas, or your family member is in a hospital bed with only a thin wall between them and the patient in the next room getting interstitial therapy… call a “Chip Architect”.
I’m not an apologist for Tom, Ckret, Phil Day, or anyone else known to this thread. Think what you wish, say what you wish (until quade bans you again), exercise the 1st amendment and all that crap. But, you show your character with ever venomous, vile, psychotic, hateful and schizophrenic post you make. You are accountable for what you post and I am accountable for what I post.
I sleep very well… do you?
Web Page
Blog
NORJAK Forum
QuoteSluggo, you pick and choose the standards you apply to various things. That's fine.
Other people pick and choose different standards. That's fine too.
I'm not you. You constantly seem to want other people to have philosophies that match yours? Am I misinterpreting?
Oh you are misinterpreting all right.
I don’t care about your philosophies any more than I care about your orgasms. You get off trolling (at a very high intellectual level, but trolling none the less). Think what you want to think, say what you want to say. It doesn’t change what I know and what I care about.
QuoteActually, your point of view gets me wondering about the whole nuke industry! Hopefully you're a singleton.
Whether you think highly about my professional abilities is another thing that means nothing to me. I stay employed. You know, I was at Stanford for a while. I wonder if you know how many times I have save Los Altos Hills and Stevens Creek from “eminent nuclear disaster.” The next time a nuclear plant melts, or a Tc-99m Cow milks itself on your flight to Dallas, or your family member is in a hospital bed with only a thin wall between them and the patient in the next room getting interstitial therapy… call a “Chip Architect”.
I’m not an apologist for Tom, Ckret, Phil Day, or anyone else known to this thread. Think what you wish, say what you wish (until quade bans you again), exercise the 1st amendment and all that crap. But, you show your character with ever venomous, vile, psychotic, hateful and schizophrenic post you make. You are accountable for what you post and I am accountable for what I post.
I sleep very well… do you?
Web Page
Blog
NORJAK Forum
snowmman 3
Thanks for the clarification, Sluggo.
But, you show your character with ever venomous, vile, psychotic, hateful and schizophrenic post you make.
WOW...Sluggo has his Undies in a bundle! I enjoy the contributions snow makes, and when he sees BS he calls it out.
WOW...Sluggo has his Undies in a bundle! I enjoy the contributions snow makes, and when he sees BS he calls it out.
377 22
It's odd how the Internet chat brings out different aspects of people's personalities. Is it the anonymity? Who knows.
I have met Snow and I have corresponded quite a bit with Sluggo. They both are nice guys in the real world away from this forum. Put them on adjoining stools in the same bar and I'd bet they'd get along fine. They'd probably both be buying shots for Bruce hoping to see more of what we got a brief glimpse of on the National Geographic show.
I do think Tom ought to post his comments on the propeller theory. If he was the innocent victim of creative splicing just tell us. Ground control to Major Tom.
Didn't the Ingrams try to clean up the money themselves hoping they could cash it in at face value? I wonder what their cleaning process might have done to coloration. Maybe nothing but it is worth thinking about.
Is it possible that they found much more than they turned over but are now in a Catch 22 situation where they can't admit it and can't do anything with the money?
I do think Jerry has a good point about shrinking wildlands and dense development making the discovery of a Cooper jump artifact likely given enough time. Remember, his rig is out there somewhere. VERY unlikely that he packed it out with him. If he didnt land in the water it will probably be found someday, maybe with a skelton, maybe not.
377
I have met Snow and I have corresponded quite a bit with Sluggo. They both are nice guys in the real world away from this forum. Put them on adjoining stools in the same bar and I'd bet they'd get along fine. They'd probably both be buying shots for Bruce hoping to see more of what we got a brief glimpse of on the National Geographic show.
I do think Tom ought to post his comments on the propeller theory. If he was the innocent victim of creative splicing just tell us. Ground control to Major Tom.
Didn't the Ingrams try to clean up the money themselves hoping they could cash it in at face value? I wonder what their cleaning process might have done to coloration. Maybe nothing but it is worth thinking about.
Is it possible that they found much more than they turned over but are now in a Catch 22 situation where they can't admit it and can't do anything with the money?
I do think Jerry has a good point about shrinking wildlands and dense development making the discovery of a Cooper jump artifact likely given enough time. Remember, his rig is out there somewhere. VERY unlikely that he packed it out with him. If he didnt land in the water it will probably be found someday, maybe with a skelton, maybe not.
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
377 22
Where is Orange these days?
377
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
377 22
QuoteExample: Is the science about measuring the money find, and saying it was 150' from the dredging
Those tape measures were so yesterday. Laser rangefinders would have made a much better impression with regards to the "scientific" task at hand.
I am interested in the pollen found on the tie. Lots of uncertainty regarding post flight contamination, but maybe it was pollen unique to Cooper's home area and stuck to the tie preflight.
Palmer's work really seems to be taking a beating in light of what the Fazios and others have reported about Tena Bar. Could he have been that far off the mark?
Can someone explain to me how big bundles and very small particles of Cooper bills would BOTH arrive at the same general location at Tena Bar if they came from a distant location? Snow? Jerry? Sluggo and hey, how about Safe? Did the particles come from the found bundles after they landed at Tena bar? That seems unlikely to me.
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
snowmman 3
I don't see any problem with the "internet chat" behaviors.
I also am comfortable with the idea that "I am what other people think of me".
Sluggo says I'm mentally unbalanced and hateful. That's not so bad. In the past, I've known some definitely unbalanced people and enjoyed time spent with them.
Do I still think everything I posted? Yes.
Sometimes I wonder if the problem is that people don't really want to know what people think. Everything I post, is me. If that's perceived extremely negatively, that's okay with me.
I could pretend to be something else. I could post in a way that veils my thoughts. But why do that?
Yes, if you were sitting next to me, you'd probably get less from me. Because we'd be focused on that moment, which might be primarily social.
Do people want this thread to be more social?
You know, in the past, I perceived Orange1 as way too negative on Jo. But she was just being specific about certain thoughts of hers. Seemed fine to voice them.
Now: what am I looking for (in case it matters). Feedback. New information. Tell me where my thinking is broken or what data is wrong or can be dug up somewhere.
If the attempt is to try to connect with me socially here, it will fail. I'm not interested (I think I've said this like a bazillion times).
Now, if Orange1 made a move...that's a different story.
I also am comfortable with the idea that "I am what other people think of me".
Sluggo says I'm mentally unbalanced and hateful. That's not so bad. In the past, I've known some definitely unbalanced people and enjoyed time spent with them.
Do I still think everything I posted? Yes.
Sometimes I wonder if the problem is that people don't really want to know what people think. Everything I post, is me. If that's perceived extremely negatively, that's okay with me.
I could pretend to be something else. I could post in a way that veils my thoughts. But why do that?
Yes, if you were sitting next to me, you'd probably get less from me. Because we'd be focused on that moment, which might be primarily social.
Do people want this thread to be more social?
You know, in the past, I perceived Orange1 as way too negative on Jo. But she was just being specific about certain thoughts of hers. Seemed fine to voice them.
Now: what am I looking for (in case it matters). Feedback. New information. Tell me where my thinking is broken or what data is wrong or can be dug up somewhere.
If the attempt is to try to connect with me socially here, it will fail. I'm not interested (I think I've said this like a bazillion times).
Now, if Orange1 made a move...that's a different story.
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