DB Cooper

[377 22]

Jerry,

We agree that the ship prop theory is absurd.

How do you explain Fazio's description of a large $20 bill particle debris field, not buried, all on top and apparently deposited by a very recent high tide?

Do you think Fazio's memory is accurate? If so, what do you conclude from the data?

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[snowmman 3]

Sometimes, when nothing makes sense, you just shrug your shoulders and say "Shit happens".

You can look at it and say "There are N possible things Fazio could have said".

What you're stressed about, is due to a belief that Fazio would steer himself to some particular subset of that N, based on his knowledge, experiences, and sensory input.

But since all of those can be flawed, the better model is to just say "Fazio picked one of the N possible things".

i.e. random.

Now can you backtrack and understand why Fazio picked that one? Probably not. Probably Fazio doesn't know. So there's no way to be sure.

One just can't know.

All you can know is "Fazio said this thing"

You can chalk it up to drugs, coffee, whatever you feel like.

Heck a farmer is around fertilizer chemicals all the time...so you're probably dealing with a contaminated human machine :)

[377 22]

Quote

Like the Nat Geo flick. I wasn't supposed to be able to watch it. I had to hack into the satellite, literally just 2 hrs before the broadcast, to beam it to my computer. I only got the setup working literally minutes before broadcast. I did have some redundancy though.

Were you benevolent enough not to upload commands to the station keeping thrusters Snow? Maybe you just reoriented the main antenna to favor your QTH.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[377 22]

Quote

Sometimes, when nothing makes sense, you just shrug your shoulders and say "Shit happens".

You can look at it and say "There are N possible things Fazio could have said".

What you're stressed about, is due to a belief that Fazio would steer himself to some particular subset of that N, based on his knowledge, experiences, and sensory input.

But since all of those can be flawed, the better model is to just say "Fazio picked one of the N possible things".

i.e. random.

True Snow, I can always depend on you for a reality check, a reminder that entropy rules the universe and people are weak.

but... what if the currency particle field was really there exactly as described by Fazio?

It is one of the "N" possibilities, right? Or am I missing something basic here?

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[377 22]

What I am wondering is whether there was evidence at Tena Bar of a LOT more Cooper money than the semi intact bills? The fact that nobody but Fazio mentions this surface $20 bill particle debris field makes me wonder about the accuracy of his memory, but I wasn't there and he was. Could it have been seen by him and removed by others before the FBI completed a through scene investigation?

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[snowmman 3]

Quote

What I am wondering is whether there was evidence at Tena Bar of a LOT more Cooper money than the semi intact bills? The fact that nobody but Fazio mentions this surface $20 bill particle debris field makes me wonder about the accuracy of his memory, but I wasn't there and he was. Could it have been seen by him and removed by others before the FBI completed a through scene investigation?

377

Fazios could be in on the conspiracy.
Like Gosset, they have all the books on Cooper.
The guy was involved in likely CIA-provided stuff on the Ho Chi Minh Trail.
Fazio is a farmer.

it all makes sense.

[JerryThomas 0]

One of the brothers does have a memory problem the youngest does not.The youngest is the one that told me about the debris field. The memory loss the oldest brother has was due to a stroke, as I understand it. The debris field at the high tide mark was left as the water started to recend When this hapened the heavier bundles washed back towards the river and was covered by sand.This is a common accurance.The debeis field did exist I discussed it with Ralph for verification and he also remembered it. I recently talked to Ralph and ask him again about the debris field and he did confirm it. Also back in March When Brian Ingram was there he also cofirmed the existance of the debris field and backed up The youngest Fazio's brother"s story. The youngest brother remembered the same locatoins as Brian did.Brian and the youngest brother together walked to the exact spot that Brian found the money.Both agreed on the exact location. So I do not question the youngest Fazio's brother's memory.Nor do I question Brians. Jery

[JerryThomas 0]

Snowmman. The Fazios are very addament in there belief's that the money washed down from the washougal river. Give them a call they'll tell you this.Jerry

[JerryThomas 0]

377 The fazio's are not the only ones that remember the debris field. Nor was there a conspiracy. Remember there was more than one FBI agent on this site during the investagation. Why don't you ask them what they remember. I'm sure they will all tell you what the results of the Investigation was.Also The FBI were not the only ones at the site during the Investagation. The New's media was out there in force along with other curious onlookers.Jerry

[377 22]

Thanks Jerry! Very interesting info.

You will never find me promoting a conspiracy theory by the way. To me conspiracy theories are almost always wrong and a waste of time.

Surely someone must have collected some Cooper bill particles. When can I buy one on eBay? The large pieces of bills were too pricey for me.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[snowmman 3]

well, if Fazio is correct, then I wouldn't jump into the Washougal, I'd start wondering if maybe Jo's story has some accuracy.

If you think Washougal is possible, then the idea of someone throwing it in the Columbia, at any point, for any reason, is possible.

Duane might have not have done the throwing, but if you're blue-skying, saying a natural water transport from the Washoughal is a natural progression of thought, isn't true.

You have to say "what are all the ways water may have transported, in some time frame, possibly with or without other assist"

[JerryThomas 0]

Snowmman does this mean we don't have to worry about the contamination level rising in The Washougal River, now that you're not going to jump in it.Jerry (humor)

[snowmman 3]

Quote

Snowmman does this mean we don't have to worry about the contamination level rising in The Washougal River, now that you're not going to jump in it.Jerry (humor)

nah.
more that the whole thing is kind of boring.
It kind of doesn't matter what anyone says etc. Nothing really worth thinking about, or researching.

[JerryThomas 0]

Snowmman. I at one time didn't believe the washougal river was possible.However after exstensive research On how the money could have gotten where it did.I had no choice but to concied to the fact that there was no other way it could have arrived. at the location it was found. When you look at the condition of the money and the location the way it was transported the amount of time that had pased the river current and speed during high tide to include the power of water the miles it can travel. What options are left. None. Let's not forget that only minor circumstances support the Washougal theory adding to it's plauseability. All other theories requires more or divine intervention. Sure there may be holes in this theory.But not many.Why! because it is the only way the money could have entered the river the way it did and the condition it did. Now the black that apears on the money is a common occurance on most articles found in this area especially on the washougal river and its tributaries.It's an algea. It apears on wood rocks plastic cloth and most other elimates.Common for this area. Jerry

[JerryThomas 0]

Snowmman. Nah! at least your honest. Jerry

[snowmman 3]

Jerry said: "Now the black that apears on the money is a common occurance on most articles found in this area especially on the washougal river and its tributaries.It's an algea."

okay so we're back where we started. No one knows why the bills are currently black.
I don't know how Jerry knows it's algae on the bills, but whatever.

I guess I still don't understand why the Washougal is required.

What's wrong with Cooper jumping directly into the Columbia? What data prevents that, but allows the Washougal?

I don't really expect an answer, because everything about the Cooper thing is just random speculation, so it doesn't really matter what the answer is.

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

Tides are definatly different in this river in the summertime However it is not strong enough to support a theory that would alow a body to be transported such a great distance. Lets not forget the time of year the money was found. During high water table's the columbia river has such a strong current that everything is moved toward the ocean.Now the high tide level from where Bruce entered the water too the location the money was found is at least 100ft That is how low the river is at this time of year. The current at high tide only alows objects to go in one direction. Does anyone honestly believe that the summers current would have brought the money such a great distance up stream? Do you have any idea how far that would have to of been? For it to of withstood months of high water flow only to be deposited on tinas bar at high tide. The lewis River theory is a no go. Maybe ET was cooper and put the money on Tina's bar and the small bits of money were leftover's from the money he had eaten. Jerry

I am ing my Friging Head Off. (since I don't use that kind of language I have no idea how to spell it). Choking up. Got to stop this. I can't help it I am still laughing

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[georger 268]

Quote

my recollection is we talked a lot about tides. Don't know why georger is saying tides are new.

Remember we discussed the drainage from Vancouver Lake that flows in both directions, depending on tides etc.

Georger got excited about tides. Don't know why. I thought we covered Columbia hydraulics pretty extensively.

Georger?

We covered hydraulics well.
Tides not so well and covered briefly. Turns out
I never did post the ephemeris or tables I have,
but did post this one for 11.24.74.

If you detect Im avoiding saying too much, I am.
Been a very long intense day, a good (very good)
day, but damn I am tired and trying to settle down
so I can think - first cup of coffee Ive had since 7 am. Been on the run all day -

[snowmman 3]

Jerry opined: "Do you have any idea how far that would have to of been? For it to of withstood months of high water flow only to be deposited on tinas bar at high tide"


My limited experience with beachcombing tells me that all stuff that's deposited and there for a long time, is deposited at the high tide mark. Otherwise it's washed away, eventually.
(edit) Of course it can move after the initial deposit, as long as it's not discovered.

I wouldn't expect to find anything other than huge trees, at below the high tide mark, except temporarily. (in between high and low tides)

?? I guess we need an expert on the deposit of beach debris.

(edit) hey georger: I'm interested in your thoughts on this. seriously.

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

Jerry,

We agree that the ship prop theory is absurd.

How do you explain Fazio's description of a large $20 bill particle debris field, not buried, all on top and apparently deposited by a very recent high tide?

Do you think Fazio's memory is accurate? If so, what do you conclude from the data?

377

Guys I told you all over and over that Fazio and the Fisherman had told about the recent rise of the water due to a snow melt. That would resemble a high tide even in the winter - right or wrong?

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[georger 268]

Quote

Greetings from Tina's Bar, y’all, where it is 101 degrees tonight at 8 pm, or at least that's what the time-temp sign read when I jumped on I-5 and headed back to Yelm.

Bruce I failed to ask... its important.

In all of this did Faxio's say anything about their cows?

Were their cows on the bar? Had they been sending
their cows to the bar during this period?

Anything about their cows during this period?

---------------------------

Also, failed to ask in your conversation with Rat:

Did you ask Rat what he meant by "... and I could
see the suburbs of Portland coming up ...."

This is key in all the Rat testimony.

Thanks.
Georger

[snowmman 3]

I reported a number of cases of Columbia River drownings, where the body was found well downstream, or not found at all. Including I-5 bridge jumper.

I was thinking it'd be interesting to know if anyone has ever drowned in the Lewis River, and where their body was found.

Did Tom Kay do any float experiments with the Lewis? It's weird he did float experiments with the Washougal with Jerry. If he's going on tv with a theory promoting the use of science, I would think Tom did experiments on the Lewis.

Jerry: did you guide Tom on the Lewis? Or did I?

(edit) A "bag stuck on propellor" theory would be testable with science too. I'm really wondering what forensic science the Nat Geo thing was showing. Was there any science other than the measuring tapes????And what was Tom's Gizmo outside. Was that a telescope of some kind?

If so, what's the connection between a telescope and Cooper? Is Tom saying Cooper oriented himself with the stars or ???

Why is the science hidden?

(edit) I forgot the pollen on the tie. But that was left hanging. No resolution.

[snowmman 3]

Here's some Lewis River drowning stories
http://www.google.com/search?q=%22Lewis+River%22+drowning

Evidently it happens. I have to read to see where the bodies go.


(edit)
Georger will like this story from an oldtimer about life in the area there before the Lake Merwin dam
http://www.lewisriver.com/historyone.html

[skyjack71 0]

[

Georger?

[georger 268]

Quote

Snowmman For Natiunal Geo's theory to be believed. The ship that would have been responsible for the deposit on Tina's Bar can be pin pointed.This ship would have to of done this with in 48hrs of the money being found. You see the visitors to Tina's Bar during this time frame was a great deal. The pieces observed by the Fazio's was in plain site and easily spotted. At any rate the longest period of time that this could have taken place is one week. Your mission should you decide to except it , is to check the records for this time frame and Identify the names of the ships that passed Tina's Bar during this Time frame and how far up river they went.Then check the amount of rain falls for those days. I believe the results will prove Nationa Geo's theory is flawed.Jerry

Not to mention two other factors (a) he lands in
the Lewis. FP and winds must support that. and (b)
unrelated: no dredge debris at the money location
ie. Palmer is wrong.