DB Cooper

[skyjack71 0]

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Bruce, are you sure he is "scared" of you, or are you reading into that the same stuff Jo does when (in her opinion and her opinion only) Gerorger "reacts" to certain evidence? If I was Mayfield, given the background, I probably wouldn't be interested in talking to any reporters any more no matter who they were or what their angle was.

[georger 267]

He did grant interviews back when all of this was going on - but posting - I didn't know that. If you do your research you will find that Mat Meyers had more than one suspect and then lit in on Mayfield making his life miserable.

This "reporter or investigator" whatever he was goes public on a man over-riding any power the FBI had.
At least I waited for 5 yrs before I went public giving the FBI ample time to do their thing - but the FBI did nothing until they KNEW I was going public.

[Orange1 0]

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If you do your research you will find that Mat Meyers had more than one suspect and then lit in on Mayfield

Jo, you say this like there is something wrong with this approach. Just like you reproached Cook for once looking at Duane and then settling on Gossett as his star suspect. Obviously they can't both be Cooper, but personally I like the investigative method: look at all the facts, look at all the suspects and then decide (in each's own opinion obviously) which suspects fit the facts the best. I think that method is much more likely to result in a breakthrough, than deciding in advance who one thinks Cooper was and then filtering all the evidence to suit one's case.

oh and by the way i did (a while ago) read those unsolved mysteries threads, and the websleuths forum as well and i thought some of the evidence they presented in terms of Mayfield was pretty interesting. There is certainly a lot more than we have had the chance to see/analyse here. Of course some of the dz posters to this thread have been on those forums as well.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[georger 267]

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But now that I'm reading it, and confirming sections of it with things Ckret has said, I think it potentially has some interesting details that we could discuss. I was amazed when Ckret released the memo confirming the flaps were changed to 30 degrees. Tosaw says this also. Tosaw says that when the flaps were at 30, the speed went from 170 knots to 145 knots (167mph)

Does anyone know what "memo" Snowmman is talking about ? Is he referring to the NWA transcript Sluggo
released for Ckret?

[edit] The reason Im asking: In spite of Snowmman,
Sluggo, and Ckret almost insisting flaps were at 30*
when Cooper bailed (in turbulence) there is nothing
in the NWA or PI transcripts to support this, and in
fact there are citations which deny it.

From the transcripts: flaps at 30* are last cited at
7:45, 305 began its climb out of 7000 at 7:48 and
reported flaps at 15*, and 15* flaps continue to be
reported at 8:01, 8:10, and thereafter. So there is
nothing in the transcripts which supports 30* during
the supposed bailout time period, unless Cooper
bailed at 7:45 or before...

The 30* flap issue began here with Snowmman
reciting Tosaw's book which claims 30# flaps at
8:10-8:13. Ckret then wondered about this but
had no firm answers that I know of. Ckret then
released some "memo"? Following this everyone claimed 30* at 8:10-8:13. (I must have missed
this "memo" whatever it was and I cannot find it!)

If the "memo" Snow is talking about is the NWA
Transcript Ckret/Sluggo released then I must differ
because there is nothing in the NWA Transcript which
says 30* after 7:45 and the NWA Transcript says:

" 2210 (8:10pm pst) Crew reported oscillation of cabin rate of climb indicator. This
probably due to HJ weight on stairs with stairs extending further, resulting effect on
cabin pressure. May be best estimate of when he exited airplane. MSPFO advised crew that range to RNO now looked good (airplane now at 10000’,170k, gear DOWN, flaps 15*, FF 4000lb/hour/engine. TAT –7*C. MSPFO calculated TAS and range from this data. (nwa) Flaps at 15*."


So we have turbulence and 15* flaps at 8:10.

Comments?

Maybe Rat was forced to go to 15* flaps due to the
turbulence?

Where and what is the 'memo" Snowmman/Sluggo
were talking about?

*If 30# flaps is the hallmark of Cooper bailing, then
from the data I have Cooper bailed 7:45 or before!

• Quote

[skyjack71 0]

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Jo Said:
If you do your research you will find that Mat Meyers had more than one suspect and then lit in on Mayfield

Orange Replied:

Jo, you say this like there is something wrong with this approach. Just like you reproached Cook for once looking at Duane and then settling on Gossett as his star suspect. Obviously they can't both be Cooper, but personally I like the investigative method: look at all the facts, look at all the suspects and then decide (in each's own opinion obviously) which suspects fit the facts the best. I think that method is much more likely to result in a breakthrough, than deciding in advance who one thinks Cooper was and then filtering all the evidence to suit one's case.

I have never had a problem with any of that - remember that I am old and I am not a polished writer or even a writer - I just say what I am thinking and it might not come across on paper the way it was meant to be heard in person. My eyes and my expressions can't be shown in a post.

Cook gave me a problem when he first started contacting me and HE knows it - he was devious and deceitful (we were talking WAY before DZ days by phone) - but, after it was all done and said he and I respect each other and think you will find he agrees with that. I still think he is using alot of what he and I have talked about to explain his subjects actions, but we will find out when the finished product is on the market. There are certain 'first" about each subject, but you cannot apply all of these "firsts" to a second subject whose ID was not revealed until a later date....we won't know until the book is out. There are several "first" that had never been mentioned until Weber became a suspect...neither here or there - I am not a writers so it up to someone else someday to make my plight known - by then maybe we will know who COOPER really was.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[georger 267]

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Thanks Jerry. You're not gonna call me tho cos you don't have my # an d it is bedtime here :)

one more thing before i go for the night, i think Georger is spot on re the role of turbulence not having been looked at properly?

I previously posted the map attached. This surface
map is but one of 4-6 maps NOAA issued on
11-24-71, which show a cold front moving into the
"Pre Cascade Turbulence Corridor". (not my terms)

(I am also informed that our friend Solderlind was
in fact an expert on aviation wind sheer and published a number of papers, some of which are still available).

I learned a lot today.

[Orange1 0]

hey 377... you gonna see some glum faces at work tomorrow...

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[377 22]

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Thanks Jerry. You're not gonna call me tho cos you don't have my # an d it is bedtime here :)

one more thing before i go for the night, i think Georger is spot on re the role of turbulence not having been looked at properly?

I previously posted the map attached. This surface
map is but one of 4-6 maps NOAA issued on
11-24-71, which show a cold front moving into the
"Pre Cascade Turbulence Corridor". (not my terms)

(I am also informed that our friend Solderlind was
in fact an expert on aviation wind sheer and published a number of papers, some of which are still available).

I learned a lot today.

This is getting very interesting Georger and thanks for reviving the topic and adding new material. I have always wondered if Cooper jumped much later than the pressure bump and there is a chance he did. Still, we have to deal with the money find which argues that the bump was coincident with his exit.

I used to read these weather maps on our fishing boats. We received them from the USCG over HF freqs. We used special radio fax machines to print them as they were being transmitted. Some of the early machines used a sparking stylus to burn the fax image onto special paper on a rotating drum. Later, thermal printers became the norm. Now the weather faxes can be decoded by a computer sound card and stored as images for later viewing. The ones we received were sent from USCG radio station NMC at Pt Reyes CA. It was always a thrill to receive a fax from thousands of miles away. Once in a while a USCG radioman would write a handwritten greeting on the fax like "Happy Thanksgiving from NMC."

I see nasty weather depicted on your map Georger, but I don't know much about land weather where you get much more wind-surface/terrain interaction than you do at sea. At sea you were really looking for scrunched together isobars (high pressure gradients) and other indicators of high winds. Turbulence, wind shear and vertical winds weren't much of a worry to a boat. We also looked for approaching low pressure fronts.

What do the pilots say about what Georger's weather map shows?

Orange, who were you rooting for in the Cricket matches once your home team was out of the running?

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[georger 267]

This is getting very interesting Georger and thanks for reviving the topic and adding new material. I have always wondered if Cooper jumped much later than the pressure bump and there is a chance he did. Still, we have to deal with the money find which argues that the bump was coincident with his exit.

I used to read these weather maps on our fishing boats. We received them from the USCG over HF freqs. We used special radio fax machines to print them as they were being transmitted. Some of the early machines used a sparking stylus to burn the fax image onto special paper on a rotating drum. Later, thermal printers became the norm. Now the weather faxes can be decoded by a computer sound card and stored as images for later viewing. The ones we received were sent from USCG radio station NMC at Pt Reyes CA. It was always a thrill to receive a fax from thousands of miles away. Once in a while a USCG radioman would write a handwritten greeting on the fax like "Happy Thanksgiving from NMC."

I see nasty weather depicted on your map Georger, but I don't know much about land weather where you get much more wind-surface/terrain interaction than you do at sea. At sea you were really looking for scrunched together isobars (high pressure gradients) and other indicators of high winds. Turbulence, wind shear and vertical winds weren't much of a worry to a boat. We also looked for approaching low pressure fronts.

What do the pilots say about what Georger's weather map shows?

Orange, who were you rooting for in the Cricket matches once your home team was out of the running?

377

[Orange1 0]

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Orange, who were you rooting for in the Cricket matches once your home team was out of the running?

377

Um, my home team is the only team who have won every match they've played in the tournament to date.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[skyjack71 0]

There was mention of Cooper maybe leaping from the top of the stairs. That sounds real scary. The plane is big and it is moving and he leaps - seems like he might get splattered and I don't mean on the ground, but against the plane itself. For some reason what you guys said doesn't make sense.

I also think Cooper needed bearings on what he might be jumping into - so I seriously do not believe he leaped without looking. Remember the film clip we looked at of jumps from a Boeing 727. At that time we even speculated on how close the chutes seemed to open to the plane, but decided it must be just the pictures and optical view from the point of the cameras.

Georger stated: Who else was flying that area that night and mentioned turbulence? Is there a third or even fourth account we don't know about that could have implications for nailing down the exact route 305 was flying?

That question was answered before: There was mention of another plane, but any reports of tubulence where explained away by the rapid changes in the area. I don't understand why you don't just pick up a phone and ASK the Co-pilot while he is STILL alive. If I did it - none of you would believe me and I wouldn't know how to ask the question or understand the answer - that takes another pilot of 727's during the early 70's.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[georger 267]

I don't understand why you don't just pick up a phone and ASK the Co-pilot while he is STILL alive.

[Orange1 0]

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There was mention of Cooper maybe leaping from the top of the stairs. That sounds real scary. The plane is big and it is moving and he leaps - seems like he might get splattered and I don't mean on the ground, but against the plane itself. For some reason what you guys said doesn't make sense.

That's because you have never skydived. Most of us have done many many jumps from inside the door of a plane. Don't forget gravity starts working on you the instant you leave the plane. Also if you can picture that most jumpers would dive not "leap" out maybe that might help you picture it. Failing that go to skydivingmovies.com and see what exits actually look like? And why do you think you can't spot from the door? To be honest Jo it makes a lot less sense to me that Cooper would be hanging on the steps outside the plane waiting for something he recognised. This is exactly what that other posters used to get so irritated about, people who don't have a clue about jumping expressing opinions on the actual jumping part. (Now don't the rest of you get in a huff about being whuffos, the other stuff is good)

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[georger 267]

I don't understand why you don't just pick up a phone and ASK the Co-pilot while he is STILL alive. If I did it - none of you would believe me and I wouldn't know how to ask the question or understand the answer - that takes another pilot of 727's during the early 70's.

There are a few things you will need to know when
you contact Rat.

#1. Either the FBI or someone has better and more decisive WX data than we know, or a lot of people
have been fudging for years. Let's go back to a few basics in this case.

#2 The socalled NWA Search Map is attached. Take
a look at this map. All drift lines are symmetrically linear in one direction, ie. the 225-235 degree angle Ckret endorsed. Now, either whoever drew this map
had data to justify this depiction, or he did not. Because in the real world of weather nothing moves
in straight lines. And what happened to Cooper is
directly connected to what the winds were.

#3. Who drew the NWA search map and how?

#3A. John Doe a member of the Boeing Company
Sky Diving Club did! We have no background on who John Doe was or his background or who he worked
with, or anything. Except Ckret tells us it was one
individual (in Ckret's post below).

You will see Ckret begns by saying: "This is a minor issue, and doesn't add anything new, but I wanted
to put a point on it, since it changes my perception
of how the search went down."

Ckret's comment above may be the understatment
of the last 37 years, if what I think is true, because Cooper went where the winds took him and winds
are the nexus which ties everything together which
begins with John Doe's NWA search map and the
drift he he predicted (based on what?).

If the winds are wrong, everything is wrong. If
John Doe got the winds right, then everything is
right...
#3B. We do not know what data set Doe used to construct the NWA search map. The best Ckret could come up with was an unreadable surface wind data
set. We dont know what data set(s) Doe used. Moreover, we do not know who Doe was working with
or even if his work was reviewed by someone, and if
it was reviewed then who reviewed it using what data set?

Throughout the entire DB Cooper case, people have relied on and deferred to "experts" supposedly
working with reliable data sets (which curiously
always end up relying on the next waiting unknown).
The unknowns out-number the knowns, always.
And mistakes out-number successes.

#4. We know that NOAA issued two data sets at a
minimum on 11-24-71, for the region in question.
One set of surface charts and one set of high
altitude charts, issued 12 hours apart, compiled
from a number of reporting stations. Does Doe's
NWA search map represent a statistically valid picture of what the NOAA charts of that day said ? We
assume he had those charts and much more.

Ckret's advice: "This is a minor issue..."

#5. The areas covered by Doe's NWA search map
actually cover several meteorological reporting zones.
And yet we see exact symmetrical linear vectoring of
all wind drift lines. Is that possible?

#6. Nobody questions the fact there were winds that day and the FBi has always used "bad weather" as
a justification for "he did not survive" but the same "bad weather" has never been connected to or fed
into any flight path offered (so far as we know) and
we are always left with the generalised statement
"Cooper could not have survived" but never explicitely told why, much less what the actual forces involved
were on that night. Obviously, winds affected the flight of 305, but how and to what ends? Then Jerry Thomas surfaces and says "305 was flying further east than
reported"! Aircraft fly in air. What were the winds?

#7. I happen to know (because Sluggo told me)
that the placard found near Toutle was found almost directly under, if not directly under, the flight path as depicted in the FBI yellow sectional map. So either
that placard circulated around like a leaf and fell exactly in that position by luck, or it dropped like a rock right under the flight path. That suggests either minimal or 'negligible' wind conditions in that leg of
the flight path or some specific force which directed
the placard to that precise location (north of the drop zone as currently suggested and north of the turbulence zone Scott, Bohan, and H report, in the 8:05-8:13 time slot ?).

So we have closely spaced regions where there are
no winds at all or winds with minimal vectored force
circulating, or, a stout down draft which takes the
placard straight to the ground right under the flight path of 305, and a short distance later we have "80 knot headwinds" (circulating? rising? falling? ) which it is reasonable to speculate may have caused buffeting
enough to cause Rat to bring the flaps from #30 degrees to #15 degrees just to keep the plane stable enough for Cooper to bail? And not one word about
any of this in the Transcripts at the time. But later it surfaces as important if not vital anecdotal information which H now says with some passion was a fact.

Whatever account you take winds are playing a role.
That cant be #80 knot headwinds at 14k feet one minute and no winds or moderate the next, or mere
turbulence at 10k feet, and 12 knots at the surface,
all within mere miles of each other, can they be?

#8. People I have spoken with say late Fall cold
fronts encounter the Cascades, set up rotating
turbulence cells which rotate counterclockwise as they
move through the region, and these winds begin to
build up and stall in the pre Cascade corridor which basically bisects Washington running south from say
Portland up a corridor which encompasses V23?. Northward rotation sends strong winds up the west
side Cascade corridor and it is these winds which probably accounts for the strong "80 knot headwinds
at 14,000 feet" which Bohan encountered flying
south along V23. (and Scott also to some degree
as yet undetermined). If the basic weather geometry
described here is correct, that would account for the
air mass (and cells?) Scott and Bohan flew through.

But it depends where you are in the region and what altitude you are at, because further east warm air is
rising off the Cascades and if 305 and Cooper got
caught up in that then we potentially have a different
scenario with different possible outcomes.

Three scenarios seem possible depending on
altitude and location, if I understand this correctly.

In this region at this time of year with a cold front
moving through, an object leaving a plane at a mid level altitide (say 5000-7000 feet?), might get stuck
in a severe down draft (cold air) and go straight to the ground, as may have happened to the placard?

An object leaving a plane at a higher altitude above
5000-7000 feet might get stuck in a stalled cold air mass circulating west (with some force) and actually travel west...

And an object leaving a plane further east closer to
the Cascades might actually get stuck in warm air
rising and be pulled aloft and sent east or north east
(even out beyond the Washougal area).

And an aircraft leaving SEA then veering east might
fly through all possible scenarios, from north to
south.

Now, if Cooper is in 305 with a bomb and 305 encounters real turbulence could it enter Cooper's
mind, "I maybe need to get the hell out of here!"?

#9. John Does' solution is simplistic. John Does's
graph states that irrespective of turbulence or
other factors, wind forces dictated a 235 degree linear track to the north east, even at Toutle. (The position
of the found placard does not seem to bear that prediction out).

#10. Even if Doe's prediction is used and circulation
is ignored, nothing in Doe's graph speaks to the
issue or predicts down vs up drafts, even if the
overall track was to the north east at 235 degrees.
Doe's graph is inadequate as a total wind and drift
or drop predictor.

These issues deserve some attention.
- - - - -
Ckret's original post on John Doe is below -

Ckret
Nov 1, 2008, 5:02 PM
Post #4918 of 10134 (943 views)
Registered: Sep 7, 2007
Posts: 522
Re: [snowmman] NWA predicted the DZ [In reply to]
This is a minor issue, and doesn't add anything new, but I wanted to put a point on it, since it changes my perception of how the search went down.

I was just rereading the partial transcript Ckret provided that described how the DZ was predicted.

Looking at the way it was written, and the redacted signature that says "Northwest Airlines", I've suddenly realized that it apparently wasn't the FBI or the USAF that predicted the DZ.

Someone at Northwest Airlines did. And not a committee. Some single person?

What it makes me think: The Northwest guy probably didn't have access to the FBI debrief of Scott and Rataczak. He was working with what he had, which was transcripts and USAF radar and wind data, as noted in the transcript. He notes all data used, and the FBI interviews are not mentioned as data.

What he apparently didn't have were the FBI interviews of the crew??? We've mused about why the jump time seems to be wrong.

I think we incorrectly assumed that a committee of experts, with all the data, created the DZ prediction. It sounds like "Not so"...and that surprisingly NWA predicted the DZ?

attached the two important pages.

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We used flight data from NW, the person doing the calulations on the jump was a Boeing engineer who was a member of their jump club


[edit note] The wind issue is but one of five or six crucial issues which I believe fell victim to the
Investigative Goggles of this forum. It's nobody's
fault. People are human. And Im sorry but I cannot subscribe to the notion there is some DB Cooper Country Club (Pres. Jo Weber or whoever) who have
"all the right stuff" meaning information, insight,
facts, phone numbers, access, etc. who if they actually have the best information have yet to define anything of proven substance in this case. GOD doesnt play golf!

[skyjack71 0]

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There was mention of Cooper maybe leaping from the top of the stairs. That sounds real scary. The plane is big and it is moving and he leaps - seems like he might get splattered and I don't mean on the ground, but against the plane itself. For some reason what you guys said doesn't make sense.

Don't forget gravity starts working on you the instant you leave the plane. Also if you can picture that most jumpers would dive not "leap" out maybe that might help you picture it. Failing that go to skydivingmovies.com and see what exits actually look like? And why do you think you can't spot from the door? To be honest Jo it makes a lot less sense to me that Cooper would be hanging on the steps outside the plane waiting for something he recognised. This is exactly what that other posters used to get so irritated about, people who don't have a clue about jumping expressing opinions on the actual jumping part. (Now don't the rest of you get in a huff about being whuffos, the other stuff is good)

Not in a huff. That was the kind of answer I was looking for --- simple and down-to earth non technical reply that even an old woman whose highest jump was off a pillar into a lake in KY.
All it required was a bathing suit and being stupid...the water was not as deep as a certain fraternity member told me. I was very lucky.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

Three of you and several people thru-out the yrs have asked me for the co-pilots contact information. I do not give out private information. The last time spoke to him was about 5 yrs ago - I don't know if what I have is current.

I will contact him and ask if he would like to recieve written communication from you through me or another third party. He protects his privacy very closely. If you wish to put your name and address and pbone number in a letter explaining what you need to know - I will see that he gets these unopened by me. First I have to make sure the information I have is still current.

We "talk" in these forums, but I don't know who most of you really are.....In my last communciation with him he was coming to see me, but that did not materialize. Perhaps he rethought the situation and decided not to do so and/or was advised not to do so.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[georger 267]

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Three of you and several people thru-out the yrs have asked me for the co-pilots contact information. I do not give out private information. The last time spoke to him was about 5 yrs ago - I don't know if what I have is current.

I will contact him and ask if he would like to recieve written communication from you through me or another third party. He protects his privacy very closely. If you wish to put your name and address and pbone number in a letter explaining what you need to know - I will see that he gets these unopened by me. First I have to make sure the information I have is still current.

We "talk" in these forums, but I don't know who most of you really are.....In my last communciation with him he was coming to see me, but that did not materialize. Perhaps he rethought the situation and decided not to do so and/or was advised not to do so.

NO THANKS!

not interested.

[JerryThomas 0]

Geoger Rat is easy to talk too and will except your phone call if you would like to talk to him. Call me Jerry

[georger 267]

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Geoger Rat is easy to talk too and will except your phone call if you would like to talk to him. Call me Jerry

Thank you, sir. Can you comment at all about
winds, that day or otherwise?

Here's a nice topo map. The black area encloses
where the plane had to be (somewhere). The white
area is the valley before foothills to the Cascades.

The issue is turbulence in these areas - especially
seasonal turbulence (surface to 20k).

You must be having a good laugh up there about
all of this.

[Erroll 80]

Quote

..But I want us to win..

So far, so good.

[georger 267]

I want to thank those that responded concerning
my posts about turbulence & winds. I have received
some great comments - all very helpful.

The two pages of notes which accompanied the
NWA DZ map explain how the map was made
and what it means, in detail. From this alone we
know that (a) the map was not the work of one
person but a group of people working together,
and (b) the map took weather factors into
consideration and allows for turbulence factors.
And, NWA had on its staff at the time true experts
in the field of aviation turbulence and wind drift
analysis.

I am posting the NWA chart and the two pages of
notes which accompanied it -

This should put the matter in proper perspective
for any future references to it. I will be happy to
answer any questions I can. Others may chime in
also as they see fit -

Take a good look at the charts I am posting.

Thanks.

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

Quote

Three of you and several people thru-out the yrs have asked me for the co-pilots contact information. I do not give out private information. The last time spoke to him was about 5 yrs ago - I don't know if what I have is current.

I will contact him and ask if he would like to recieve written communication from you through me or another third party. He protects his privacy very closely. If you wish to put your name and address and pbone number in a letter explaining what you need to know - I will see that he gets these unopened by me. First I have to make sure the information I have is still current.

We "talk" in these forums, but I don't know who most of you really are.....In my last communciation with him he was coming to see me, but that did not materialize. Perhaps he rethought the situation and decided not to do so and/or was advised not to do so.

NO THANKS!

not interested.

I offered to help without invading someone elses space. If Jerry has his number it was given in confidence. Perhaps Jerry should get permission to give out that number.

I have recently been given some very ERRONEOUS information which proved to be OUT and OUT lies.
I have been accused of lieing, but I have not lied.
When an individual tells lies to make someone GO away or to deliberately hurt that person causing emotion stress is deplorable. These lies may have been told - because this individual stands to loose something if any part of my story is ever proven. Note this is only a guess as to what the motive would be.


My "guys" have now taken the reins - as of next wk that ALL important interview will happen. I do not think this interview is will be productive, but may supply "some" information never before known to the public. My "guys" want to check it out. This person is someone never mentioned in this forum nor in any of the research I have acquired. How my "guys" found this person I will never know.

A company has been located to check out the public records in WA that I have been seeking. I have asked the FBI and others involved in this "search" but the reply is always I know who owned this or that piece of property in 1971 or 1940's.

I will NO longer depend on someone else or the FBI to do what has to be done.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[SKYWHUFFO 1]

does that mean we can finally quit hearing you whine about the FBI over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over?????????????
Seriously give the FBI speal a rest on EVERY post. I have been on here since the first of the old thread and it's getting tiresome. Please listen to this request. While i am up here borrowing Georger's soap box, if you are not going to provide data to back your statements or clarify statements don't say them. Nobody has a fricking clue what the hell you are rambling about some interview and your "guys". Try to explain a little.
What would you say if i said i could place the peson in a parachute training program and in the airport?????? Then i left the forum?

[377 22]

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I have recently been given some very ERRONEOUS information which proved to be OUT and OUT lies.

My "guys" have now taken the reins - as of next wk that ALL important interview will happen. I do not think this interview is will be productive, but may supply "some" information never before known to the public. My "guys" want to check it out. This person is someone never mentioned in this forum nor in any of the research I have acquired. How my "guys" found this person I will never know.

OK Jo, so what was the "OUT and OUT LIE" and who told it? If you dont wish to ID the liar at least tell us what the lie was. Otherwise it's just another Jo tease.

"Your guys"??? Who are they and what have you tasked them with? At least tell us their qualifications and assigned mission if you don't wish to ID them personally. What do they expect to learn from this new person they have found?

Time and time again you promise to deliver blockbuster evidence, but so far the promises are just teases.

Time to DELIVER Jo, starting right now.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[georger 267]

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I have recently been given some very ERRONEOUS information which proved to be OUT and OUT lies.

My "guys" have now taken the reins - as of next wk that ALL important interview will happen. I do not think this interview is will be productive, but may supply "some" information never before known to the public. My "guys" want to check it out. This person is someone never mentioned in this forum nor in any of the research I have acquired. How my "guys" found this person I will never know.

OK Jo, so what was the "OUT and OUT LIE" and who told it? If you dont wish to ID the liar at least tell us what the lie was. Otherwise it's just another Jo tease.

"Your guys"??? Who are they and what have you tasked them with? At least tell us their qualifications and assigned mission if you don't wish to ID them personally. What do they expect to learn from this new person they have found?

Time and time again you promise to deliver blockbuster evidence, but so far the promises are just teases.

Time to DELIVER Jo, starting right now.

377

I have never been able to figure Jo out, at least
the part that contradicts the "other part", which
contradicted the "part before the other part",
which contradicted the part before that, whatever
"that" is! (Its what ran me out of psychiatry into
the arms of house painting, which is sure and simple,
at least it used to be! Im only kidding).

One minute Jo is chasing down obscure details and
nailing good evidence, eg. Finegold passenger on
305. Jo contributed more to that than anyone else
here and she actually wrote the guy, then talked to
him........ gathering actual evidence. Jo has made
a career out of that. Jo may have things the FBI and Sluggo dont even have! God only knows what Jo has,
or doesn't have. But Jo does suck people in and is
likable to many. Maybe its her sympathy card.
I honestly dont know. (Lots of vets remember old
people who used to throw grenades so to some
Jo isnt an automatic winner.)

Then the next minute Jo is off chasing MKULTRA and
Lee Harvey Oswald claiming Duane had some connection there! Pure crazy nonsense.

(Hell I knew Lee Harvey Oswald. Lee Harvey never
knew Duane Weber! ) I could claim that with the
same legitimacy Jo claims Duane knew Abraham
Lincoln and expects anyone to believe it? It's either
crazy, or it's a ruse for something deeper.

At the end of the day, WHO! is Jo Weber, to be
making all of these claims ands refusing evidence
she says she has?

Whatever Jo Weber is her train wrecks have derailed
everything too many times and clogged up the works
for everyone, actually sent people running for cover
(the old woman throwing grenades again), and I have ceased to care. Wherever Jo goes, nuthin grows or
lives to tell the tale!

Jo Weber is DB Cooper. That is as close to DB Cooper
as most of us will ever get.

It's been a honor knowing you DB Weber!