DB Cooper

[skyjack71 0]

Jerry is not bashing me about the conspiracy theory or any theory. I need to set the record straight as to what he is calling lies.

It is what Duane showed me in WA, what I held in my hand, the confession and my trip back to WA in 2001 when I found the places I had described to Jerry in 1997. This is what Jerry is baggering me about calling me liar liar with every breath - I didn't hang-up (he requested I call him) thinking he might come to his senses. He kept saying "tell me your lieing and we have a deal and he wouldn't make the tapes public".

This went on and on.

I had 4 witnesses when I went back to WA and found the places. He kept saying "You are lieing, tell me you are lieing" He said I rented a car and he could prove it and I that was alone and had NO witnesses.

Jerry hasn't said anything to me about the conspiracy theory because he knows it is theory. What he is doing is attacking the core of what I know and my going to the places and seeing what I saw and then finding them again in 2001 with witnesses. He was using 60's prisoner of war tactics on me.

The places existed and still exist but not as I saw them in 1979 and 2001. WHY would he DENY they exist? - WHY would he CALL me a LIAR - when the 2001 trip had witnesses? These witnesses are WA residents and not part of a film crew - the guide provided by the film crew didn't have a clue about the places I described.

These witnesses do not deem it necessary to expose themselves in a forum - 2 of the living ladies are older than I am. One lady has died. Jerry even threatened to have me arrested for impeding an investigation and to make charges against the driver who assisted us.

Now do you guys understand what is going on? I don't other than Jerry doesn't want anyone to know these places actually do exist and that at one time they were exactly as I described them in 1996 to the FBI and later to Jerry at the suggestion of Himmelsbach.

Note: When I was trying to describe the places to the FBI and to Jerry - the body of water - I thought it was the Columbia - Duane knew I thought it was a river and he did not correct me.
It was just a big river to me - but, it turns out it was a very long lake.

The Lake was low at that time - and with the down drop - I thought it was a river - I didn't know that rivers in WA are rocky and usually moving rapidly...I had NO REASON to determine what this body of Water was in 1979, until we were leaving the area. My memory of a sign is the very thing that helped me find it in 2001. Because of an odd statement - I turned around and looked back at a road sign. I didn't remember that road sign until I was in that car with the driver in 2001 and there it was infront of me. I was screaming TURN TURN TURN.

The driver then informed me that in order to take me to any body of water in that area - he would have have to turn - he was waiting for my reactions to the area I had been told to go to - by the truck driver. Remember that this truck driver told me that after I crossed the bridge in Washougal if I had ever been there I would remember it. Remember it I did.

When I asked the driver what the body of water was on our S side he told me that was the Washougal - Jerry had told me over and over that the Washougal could not be on my left. As we got on down the road - I told the man to turn right.

The man then told me if we did not turn at that point that the road would dead end later on down the river. When we headed West - I saw the pastures I had kept telling Jerry and Himmelsbach and the crew and the FBI about - they were there. Quiet a ways up that road is when I started screaming TURN.

What Jerry does not understand is that my mind photographs things and places - things and places change, but somethings do not change to the point you cannot retrace your steps. Tree I saw in 1979 were 4/6 yrs old and then 22 yrs later it is a very very large tree. Tree that were 25 yrs old in 1979 could have been removed or diseased or taken out due to developement.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[georger 267]

Quote

Polygraphs prove nothing. Someone who truly believes what they are saying will pass even if it is a load of hogwash. If I believed I had been adbucted by aliens to extract the secret CIA info I knew, I would pass.

Thats a myth. It all depends on how the (tests) are
being conducted and what the database and baselines
are. Even a paranoid schizophrenic can be tested ...
right in the middle of a delusional episode.

The DB Cooper cases attracts liars who fit into a special catagory of liars who tell you right up front
they are lying even as they talk. It doesnt matter
to their audience who are also engaging in the joint
lie. This system relies on some need or addiction among the participants, and the celebrated liars in
this group can always fall back on: "you knew
I was lying" and "you only fooled yourself". The
assholes in this group deserve a special place in Hell
because they are professional habitual liars who will revise history and send millions to their graves if necessary in order to preserve their own personal
comfort. These people are called sociopathic liars
and use conscience as a tool to gain their own shabby
self satisfaction - which never lasts very long. These
homeless vagrants always come back - to stir up
more trouble.

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

Quote

Polygraphs prove nothing. Someone who truly believes what they are saying will pass even if it is a load of hogwash. If I believed I had been adbucted by aliens to extract the secret CIA info I knew, I would pass.

Thats a myth. It all depends on how the (tests) are
being conducted and what the database and baselines
are. Even a paranoid schizophrenic can be tested ...
right in the middle of a delusional episode. Jo, for
example, would never escape.

Then why didnt' the FBI arrange one? They would now have to work around my health and meds - but in the beginning there was no problem. In the beginning I offered to take polygraphs - perhaps the FBI didn't want one made - because if I passed it there would be too many questions to answer - I am talking about their letter of 1998 and their investigation up until March of 2000.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[snowmman 3]

Quote

Quote

Polygraphs prove nothing. Someone who truly believes what they are saying will pass even if it is a load of hogwash. If I believed I had been adbucted by aliens to extract the secret CIA info I knew, I would pass.

Thats a myth. It all depends on how the (tests) are
being conducted and what the database and baselines
are. Even a paranoid schizophrenic can be tested ...
right in the middle of a delusional episode. Jo, for
example, would never escape.

Georger, isn't that pretty out of line, trying to pretend you're qualified to give a mental diagnosis, and giving one?

looking at wikipedia, I don't think Jo displays the symptoms?

"According to the revised fourth edition of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-IV-TR), to be diagnosed with schizophrenia, three diagnostic criteria must be met.[4]

1. Characteristic symptoms: Two or more of the following, each present for much of the time during a one-month period (or less, if symptoms remitted with treatment).
* Delusions
* Hallucinations
* Disorganized speech, which is a manifestation of formal thought disorder
* Grossly disorganized behavior (e.g. dressing inappropriately, crying frequently) or catatonic behavior
* Negative symptoms—affective flattening (lack or decline in emotional response), alogia (lack or decline in speech), or avolition (lack or decline in motivation)

If the delusions are judged to be bizarre, or hallucinations consist of hearing one voice participating in a running commentary of the patient's actions or of hearing two or more voices conversing with each other, only that symptom is required above. The speech disorganization criterion is only met if it is severe enough to substantially impair communication.

2. Social/occupational dysfunction: For a significant portion of the time since the onset of the disturbance, one or more major areas of functioning such as work, interpersonal relations, or self-care, are markedly below the level achieved prior to the onset.
3. Duration: Continuous signs of the disturbance persist for at least six months. This six-month period must include at least one month of symptoms (or less, if symptoms remitted with treatment).

Schizophrenia cannot be diagnosed if symptoms of mood disorder or pervasive developmental disorder are present, or the symptoms are the direct result of a general medical condition or a substance, such as abuse of a drug or medication."

[georger 267]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Polygraphs prove nothing. Someone who truly believes what they are saying will pass even if it is a load of hogwash. If I believed I had been adbucted by aliens to extract the secret CIA info I knew, I would pass.

Thats a myth. It all depends on how the (tests) are
being conducted and what the database and baselines
are. Even a paranoid schizophrenic can be tested ...
right in the middle of a delusional episode. Jo, for
example, would never escape.

Then why didnt' the FBI arrange one? They would now have to work around my health and meds - but in the beginning there was no problem. In the beginning I offered to take polygraphs - perhaps the FBI didn't want one made - because if I passed it there would be too many questions to answer - I am talking about their letter of 1998 and their investigation up until March of 2000.

Since YOU dont know what you're talking about,
how can I know what you're talking about, or care?

[Sluggo_Monster 0]

snowmman,

Quote

Don't put it on me, and say someone left because of me. That's lame.

It may be lame, but the fact is, many people have left this thread because of you.

That may be a good thing, that may be a bad thing, but it is a REAL thing.

Take a look at the kind of post on this thread previous to April 1, 2008 (when you started posting) and today. Notice the nature of the discussions then and now.

Also, let’s look at who posts on a single (100 post) page back then:
Novalis
nigel99
labrys
SafecrackingPLF
dumstuntzz
NickDG
Capnastropants
ltdiver
Ckret
stratostar
mark
Albert18
TrophyHusband
milehighpres
low_pull1
SKYWHUFFO
1969912
skyjack71
ryoder
Orange1
grimmie
happythoughts
Sluggo_Monster

Now look at who posts on a single (100 post) page now:
snowmman
JerryThomas
377
georger
skyjack71
quade
Orange1
happythoughts
Mr.Nuke
1969912
BruceSmith
Sluggo_Monster

Do you think you might be the cause of the shift?

Sluggo_Monster

Web Page
Blog
NORJAK Forum

[snowmman 3]

sluggo said:
"It may be lame, but the fact is, many people have left this thread because of you. "

Hi Sluggo.
I looked at your list. Thanks for posting it. I always said I was fine with being voted off the island.

Assuming you accurately tallied the vote, I'll accept it.

Thanks.

(edit) whoa. just read georger's edited post above. strong stuff!

[happythoughts 0]

Quote

Do you think you might be the cause of the shift?

I only try to post when someone provides an actual
fact that is also relevant. A lot of trivia provided.

No new facts in the last year.

[skyjack71 0]

"The man then told me if we did not turn at that point that the road would dead end later on down the river. When we headed West - I saw the pastures I had kept telling Jerry and Himmelsbach and the crew and the FBI about - they were there. Quiet a ways up that road is when I started screaming TURN. "


It should have said when we headed NORTH - I saw the pastures.


PS: I enjoy the information Snowmman provides - information we would never have seen if it had not been for him.


Sluggo:
Sluggo you are not taking into account where the thread was a yr ago and where it is now information wise. The media attention was heavy back then - and hence more posters. When the lulls come - it takes trivia to keep things alive. Snowmman does a great job and when he makes mistakes he takes the wet noodle.

Lots of people check this thread quiet often, but never post. Others don't like to post when things aren't going their way.
There are some who babble (perhaps you might include me in that).

There are others who aren't happy unless they are calling other posters liars. That kind of behaviour is counter-productive resulting in posts that are repetive and defensive.

There is NO way to gain ground and post new information with this kind of behaviour. Rather than stomp on Snowmman for his informative posts - Why not ask certain posters to be refrain from attacking and be considerate to ALL.

Name calling or insults are not necessary. You can agree to disagree, but politely

377 is an excellent example of someone who knows how to politely disagree, but never throws out insults or accusations.

OK, the Crazy Ladies 2 cents worth. but flip those pennies and who do you see on the other side?

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[georger 267]

Quote

"The man then told me if we did not turn at that point that the road would dead end later on down the river. When we headed West - I saw the pastures I had kept telling Jerry and Himmelsbach and the crew and the FBI about - they were there. Quiet a ways up that road is when I started screaming TURN. "


It should have said when we headed NORTH - I saw the pastures.

Pastures are sometimes hard to tell apart. Screaming isnt.

[georger 267]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Polygraphs prove nothing. Someone who truly believes what they are saying will pass even if it is a load of hogwash. If I believed I had been adbucted by aliens to extract the secret CIA info I knew, I would pass.

Thats a myth. It all depends on how the (tests) are
being conducted and what the database and baselines
are. Even a paranoid schizophrenic can be tested ...
right in the middle of a delusional episode. Jo, for
example, would never escape.

Then why didnt' the FBI arrange one? They would now have to work around my health and meds - but in the beginning there was no problem. In the beginning I offered to take polygraphs - perhaps the FBI didn't want one made - because if I passed it there would be too many questions to answer - I am talking about their letter of 1998 and their investigation up until March of 2000.

Why on Earth, are you asking me!?

Maybe better to ask your bartender?

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

Quote

"The man then told me if we did not turn at that point that the road would dead end later on down the river. When we headed West - I saw the pastures I had kept telling Jerry and Himmelsbach and the crew and the FBI about - they were there. Quiet a ways up that road is when I started screaming TURN. "


It should have said when we headed NORTH - I saw the pastures.

Pastures are sometimes hard to tell apart. Screaming isnt.

My Dearest Baboon,
Why can't you wait for me to edit my posts before you answer - go back to the last post. Are you deaf? Is that why I have to scream.

I can't drink but you can have one for me. YOU really really don't want to hear me scream - I won a cruise in a PIG CALLING contest...SSSSUUUUEEEE!

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[JerryThomas 0]

I only post facts not fiction.I give my opinions based on experience. I'm 57 yrs old and have alot of experence both in the field and in educational knoledge.I only disagree. and make accusations involving truth I can prove. Now on the lighter side. What were the years that alligator loafers were in fashion and what age group? Who could afford them in that time frame?These are things I realy consider Important. Try to pin point are place cooper in a catagory.There is one he fits by, the way he was dressed. Just something to consider.

[georger 267]

Quote

I only post facts not fiction.I give my opinions based on experience. I'm 57 yrs old and have alot of experence both in the field and in educational knoledge.I only disagree. and make accusations involving truth I can prove. Now on the lighter side. What were the years that alligator loafers were in fashion and what age group? Who could afford them in that time frame?These are things I realy consider Important. Try to pin point are place cooper in a catagory.There is one he fits by, the way he was dressed. Just something to consider.

[;) I have no idea what shoes he had on... Tina
said ankle length but Im not even clear what that
means. Loafers are ankle length? I guess we need
a committee?

[quade 4]

Guys . . . come on . . . tone it the f down.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[377 22]

Georger,

I really think you give polygraph exams more credibility than they deserve. There is a reason they are inadmissible in most (but not all) state and federal criminal courts: they only measure physio parameters, not veracity and their interpretation is subjective. Polygraphs, voice stress analysis, PET scans and many other tests have been advocated as truth-lie discriminators. So far, unless the parties stipulate to their admission, they cannot be placed into evidence because their reliability has not been adequately proven.

They are used in investigations, but they don't make it into the courtroom. I once had a client flunk two voluntary polygraph exams (one police, one private) on a burglary that he positively did not commit. He was Chinese, had no criminal record and apparently was so upset about being accused and the resultant shame it brought upon his family that it skewed the exam results. Thank God I got the case dismissed. You don't get very many truly innocent clients. The thought of having one convicted really had me sweating.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[377 22]

Quote

Quote

I only post facts not fiction.I give my opinions based on experience. I'm 57 yrs old and have alot of experence both in the field and in educational knoledge.I only disagree. and make accusations involving truth I can prove. Now on the lighter side. What were the years that alligator loafers were in fashion and what age group? Who could afford them in that time frame?These are things I realy consider Important. Try to pin point are place cooper in a catagory.There is one he fits by, the way he was dressed. Just something to consider.

[;) I have no idea what shoes he had on... Tina
said ankle length but Im not even clear what that
means. Loafers are ankle length? I guess we need
a committee?

I sure wish we had solid info on what kind of shoes DBC jumped with. If the shoes were loafers or some other type likely to be stripped off by the exit windblast, then it would be a pretty good bet that he had little or no jump experience and that he didn't have any idea what he was facing on the jump and post landing egress to civilization.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Orange1 0]

Hey Georger, you know well that correlation does not imply causation. Maybe Snow has driven one or two posters away but I think it's a bit unfair to blame him for everyone! Most obviously Ckret, whom I think everyone knows was "driven away" by another poster.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[Orange1 0]

Quote

I sure wish we had solid info on what kind of shoes DBC jumped with. If the shoes were loafers or some other type likely to be stripped off by the exit windblast, then it would be a pretty good bet that he had little or no jump experience and that he didn't have any idea what he was facing on the jump and post landing egress to civilization.

377

Even if they were ankle height... didn't most/all jumpers in those days jump with big boots? we should try to analyse the shoes decision (or lack of) in the context of what the "done thing" was in those days.

Just like saying jets are "no big deal", well maybe in those days they were? How many pure sport skydivers had done jet jumps back then?

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[georger 267]

Quote

Hey Georger, you know well that correlation does not imply causation.

I think the distinction you are looking for is "prove
causation" vs. "imply causation" -
Try "The Philosophy of Science" by Gustav Bergmann.

But none of that matters here.

[Sluggo_Monster 0]

Georger,

As a (proud) Deep-South Southerner. I found the attached photo in your last post offensive (and in VERY poor taste).

I'm not one of the "PC Police types," but some symbols (even though iconic) are still offensive to many (or maybe most).

Maybe Mid-Westerners have "differential sensibilities".

Sluggo_Monster

Web Page
Blog
NORJAK Forum

[377 22]

Quote

Quote

I sure wish we had solid info on what kind of shoes DBC jumped with. If the shoes were loafers or some other type likely to be stripped off by the exit windblast, then it would be a pretty good bet that he had little or no jump experience and that he didn't have any idea what he was facing on the jump and post landing egress to civilization.

377

Even if they were ankle height... didn't most/all jumpers in those days jump with big boots? we should try to analyse the shoes decision (or lack of) in the context of what the "done thing" was in those days.

Just like saying jets are "no big deal", well maybe in those days they were? How many pure sport skydivers had done jet jumps back then?

Orange,

We did use big paraboots back then, but wouldn't you know from your first freefall experience that you face hellacious relative wind forces in a jump that would rip off casual shoes? You might even surmise that from a static line jump but I am not as sure.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[georger 267]

Quote

Georger,

As a (proud) Deep-South Southerner. I found the attached photo in your last post offensive (and in VERY poor taste).

I'm not one of the "PC Police types," but some symbols (even though iconic) are still offensive to many (or maybe most).

Maybe Mid-Westerners have "differential sensibilities".

Sluggo_Monster

Well as a proud Floridian and Virginian transplanted
to the Midwest let me say Im glad you are alert and
YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEHAW! As a proud SAR member
a double YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEHAW!! As a proud
former student of the Lexington Academy and a graduate of Wentworth which my ancestors helped
found, a triple YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEHAW! And
to quote General Lee: "Some people ortta know whereof and whomof they speak before ordering a
mandate no Virginian can keep, and I could not keep
that one given to me, especially with all these carpetbaggers whistling about lookin to steal everything that aint nailed down. So where does that
bring us? It brings us right back to where our hearts begin. And in that vein I say what I must say!"

[skyjack71 0]

In Jefferson in 1968 there was a tall round hotel - a skyscraper of sorts. This hotel was resident to many politicians and in February or March of 1968 one of the politicians experiened a silent break-in to his room or one occupied by a member of his security team.

It is not known if much of value was taken or if this incident was reported by the security team.

One item taken during this entry by an employee (or by an accomplice of the employee) was a "TIE" that the perpertator thought belonged to the politician. This "TIE" became a Family Joke. I tried to tell the FBI what I was talking about and did tell them who the politician was - I have been ignored.

The taking of this TIE has no known political overviews and probably does not connect to any covert or CIA action. The "TIE" was deliberately left on the plane by Cooper as a message to his family - a sort of "Good-Bye".

After the Cooper incident he severed his relations with the family, because he did survive and he feared that one of them would put the "TIE" story together with the composite and he would end up in prison for the rest of his life.

Well, the FBI did not at that time make a picture of the TIE available to the public and the original composite that surfaced did not resemble him. He spent the rest of his life avoiding contact with family members from the past and when the new composites surfaced.

His memories of a family he abandoned out of self-perservation haunted him many times over the years...but he knew he needed to take his a life in a different direction if he was to stay out of prison. (xxxx - left out but will tell the FBI if they are interested). He felt little remorse over the children whose lives he had affected and he continued to make the same mistakes in those first few yrs.

He was mentally living in the past and when the chance came to make his life different - he was for the first time forced to revisit the past. He had met someone who did not want to hear the stories of his past loves - and refused to be a part of his until he could put the past in the past. At her insistence he went to see this woman, but the children were grown and no longer living with their Mother.

A few days later he returned to Atlanta, Georgia to begin his new lilfe...He left his old life at the Airport in Ca.

As the yrs progressed he wondered what had happened to those children especially the youngest boy - he had learned to feel regret, but if he attempted to contact him it could mean his spending his life in prison if this lad ever connected the composite and the tie.. He couldn't take that chance - so he left the past in the past.

There is much more to this story that can and will never be public, but I am willing to talk to the FBI again about who the TIE belonged to. They are afraid it will cause cover-up implications and they choose to ignore me. This politician had made a speech in Jefferson was about the oppressed and our penal system, which today is not muct better. When this man was killed Duane felt there was no chance of any changes for ex-cons to have a better life.

Was the TIE also a tribute to the life of this young politician? Was this Coopers grudge? Is this why Cooper was such a "SAD man".

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[Orange1 0]

Quote

Orange,

We did use big paraboots back then, but wouldn't you know from your first freefall experience that you face hellacious relative wind forces in a jump that would rip off casual shoes? You might even surmise that from a static line jump but I am not as sure.

377

agreed - i was more referring to the argument some people have proposed that if the shoes were ankle height they would be OK for a jump, my thinking was if you were used to jumping with boots you wouldn't want to chance it. (iow i was agreeing not disagreeing with you
re static line, i mean i did that... all i can remember from my first jump is that we were told to wear sneakers and we didn't have to use goggles. and my first freefall after my SL jumps was pretty much the same and quite calm, and a MASSIVE difference to my next one, when i switched to AFF and discovered that though I had technically already done a freefall, I actually had no idea what a "proper" one (ie at terminal) was really like... so actually i would say someone who had only done SL and maybe a hop & pop or 2 (3 sec/5 sec delays) may actually not have been prepared for a freefall. especially out a jet. of course, Cooper may have H&Ped... we just don't know, do we?

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.