DB Cooper

[377 22]

Great 1937 footage, thanks Snow! Would you believe that the planes (Ford Tri-Motor) were STILL hauling smoke jumpers in 1969? True!

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[georger 257]

Quote

Great 1937 footage, thanks Snow! Would you believe that the planes (Ford Tri-Motor) were STILL hauling smoke jumpers in 1969? True!

377

How many hours before or after eating is it recommended that a person parachute?

You might know the answer?

[377 22]

I know of no standards on this Georger. I have a jumper friend who enjoys doing HAHO lunch jumps, really. He has a special lunch pouch that fastens to the front of his harness. He eats his lunch while flying under canopy.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[snowmman 3]

Quote

Great 1937 footage, thanks Snow! Would you believe that the planes (Ford Tri-Motor) were STILL hauling smoke jumpers in 1969? True!

377

Yeah, I really liked that footage. It's really good to see stuff, to synchronize on what we're speculating about. Because everything we talk about has to be pre 1971...possibly all the way back to WWII (late '40s).

It is really interesting to muse about what it would have been like to been jumping back in the '50s at a base camp with those guys. I liked the funny thing where they tied their legs to the log and were doing those reverse bendovers on their backs..OUCH!
like an initiation ceremony..which many male group things were back then.


It is really amazing how stuff appears on youtube that's just excellent historical info. That second video was just put up by a reputable history society in feb 2009. It's a segment from a longer dvd/movie from way back they sell.

New stuff just appears..so have to be constantly looking. Every month potentially new stuff everywhere on the web.

It was interesting how they showed early air drops, and I believe they had someone similar to an Airborne Safety who was wearing an emergency rig. I just glanced at it. And they were doing air drops, so hey they have loadmasters.

I wonder why smokejumper loadmasters are verboten, but air force are in (for FBI profile)? I think it's just the supposed McChord connection, which we know is very weak...i.e. Cooper commented only after Tina said the chutes were coming from McChord.

[georger 257]

Quote

I know of no standards on this Georger. I have a jumper friend who enjoys doing HAHO lunch jumps, really. He has a special lunch pouch that fastens to the front of his harness. He eats his lunch while flying under canopy.

377

Im more concerned with failure to eat (under stress)
prior to a jump - can cause dizziness and elevated
heart rythm (metabolic) in older men. Can result
in metabolic crash if blood sugars drop (loss of blood pressure and body temp). Cooper asked
food be brought to the plane for the crew - did he eat any? Ive brought this up before but nobody addressed it.

[snowmman 3]

I've been mulling over what I said about that guy that wanted to do some analysis and help out the FBI, and how he should contact the FBI using their email address, like they said.

Ckret has said on TV how it would be great to find Cooper with no FBI resources expended.

But imagine if they get a lot of tips via the comic book angle, or the loadmaster angle.

How do they get processed without expending resources?

It's all very confusing. I suppose if someone delivers Cooper on a plate, like the guy who delivered Madoff on a plate to the SEC years before he was exposed (SEC did nothing)......

:)

[skyjack71 0]

Got a pill in me so I hope I make sense - Llloyd Johnson , Larel 'Sargent, Carl Rosseli Hal Harden,

Quote

William Thomspson

These name mean something to me - probably I jusr read about them before.]

There was a group that went to MT Hood from CA. Where are they.
Leo Harder and cowboy (don't remember his name).

What happened to Larel Sargent...that name I heard in the Columbus and Alabama area in the late 70's - had an old town full of antiques. Simply called him Sarg.

Keep digging for the Mt. Hood group...remember we aren't looking for jumpers - they had their crew pilot and load master and other workers - some just packed the equipment.

Pill is messing me up ---going to bed. BAD day - sure could have use a man around today and for the next wk. Got to get rid of all this stuff - tools, etc nothing I need. So much stuff I don't know where to start. or what to ask for it., but I have to get the garage where I can find the car.

Keep digging - there is a mechanic by the name Ed Hurand - find him and whe find Duane. I will see what I can find tomorrow.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[377 22]

That C 141 hijacker had nothing on this guy:

http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_viewtopic-t-4694.html

Can you imagine a non pilot taking a cold C 130, starting it up, taking off and getting it going across the English Channel? Rumors are that it was shot down by USAF F 16s.

Poor guy. Didn't harm anyone. He was wacked out about something and wanted to get home fast.

Many years ago a crew chief took an A4 Skyhawk jet for a successful joyride at a USMCAS El Toro in Orange County CA.

Cooper should have just kicked the crew off at the holding point for the take off runway and assumed command. What a wus. With the autopilot he still could have made his jump.

Of course, with no crew aboard the F 106's might have been considerably less restrained.
I bet they'd love to have a 727 kill stenciled next to their cockpit. The SAGE boys would have loved vectoring the intercept.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[377 22]

Quote

Quote

I know of no standards on this Georger. I have a jumper friend who enjoys doing HAHO lunch jumps, really. He has a special lunch pouch that fastens to the front of his harness. He eats his lunch while flying under canopy.

377

Im more concerned with failure to eat (under stress)
prior to a jump - can cause dizziness and elevated
heart rythm (metabolic) in older men. Can result
in metabolic crash if blood sugars drop (loss of blood pressure and body temp). Cooper asked
food be brought to the plane for the crew - did he eat any? Ive brought this up before but nobody addressed it.

Ahhh, Georger sees a possible diminshed capacity defense if Cooper is ever caught. Although I am sure it was sensationalized by the press, Dan White's defense in the murder of SF Mayor George Moscone and gay activist supervisor Harvey Milk was based on a claim of hypoglycemia and/or insulin shock brought on by eating Hostess Twinkies and has been called the Twinkie defense. Airline peanuts are actually pretty healthy, but we dont know what he consumed other than Burbon.

How could you handle a Burbon drink glass or cup without getting your prints on it?

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[BruceSmith 3]

Quote

How could you handle a Burbon drink glass or cup without getting your prints on it?

377

I have the same question, 377. To whit:


Part III: Why Can't the FBI Find DB Cooper?


Are there multiple Coopers?

Besides the mounting number of red flags flying over the federal investigation, there are additional pieces of information coming into public knowledge via non-governmental sources that point to a hidden agenda in the Cooper case.

The first new piece of stunning information circulating is that there may be more than one DB Cooper.

As impossible as that may sound, a number of very plausible candidates besides Barb Dayton are coming forward via death-bed confessions, family revelations and dogged research. It suggests that somehow they were all involved, or were convinced they were.

The current list of leading candidates besides Barb Dayton includes: Ken Christenson, William Gossett, Richard McCoy and Duane Weber. To understand how and why there might be more than one DB Cooper, we need to carefully examine how these folks got on the Cooper list.

Ken Christenson, now deceased, was a former Northwest Orient mechanic, flight attendant, and on November 24, 1971, a flight purser. He had also been a paratrooper in WWII, was by most accounts a loner, and had lived in the Tacoma suburb of Bonney Lake.

In the 1990s, his younger brother, Lyle Christenson, became suspicious that Ken might be DB Cooper. After a circuitous personal crusade to learn the truth of his brother, Lyle first contacted a New York City private investigator, which then led to author Geoffrey Gray, who then wrote an excellent profile on Christenson. It was published in New York Magazine in 2007.

Gray wrote in his article that Flight 305 stewardess Florence Schaffner said the photographs he showed her of Christenson “were the closest in resemblance to Cooper than any of the suspects she’s ever seen.”

Next, Spokane lawyer Galen Cook advocates for William Gossett, a former Marine, career Army officer, and highly skilled paratrooper. Gossett is also deceased, but during a Coast-to-Coast radio interview Cook introduced two of Gossett’s sons, one of whom said his father had confessed to being DB Cooper. The son also said that his father had shown him keys to a safe deposit box in a Vancouver, BC bank where he said the $200,000 was stashed.

Richard McCoy is on the list for three big reasons. One, he actually hijacked an airliner using the exact same methods as Cooper, escaping with $500,000 by parachuting into the skies over Provo, Utah.
Two, the FBI agent who shot and killed McCoy in a subsequent gun battle, Nicholas O’Hara, allegedly said, “When I shot Richard Mc Coy, I shot DB Cooper at the same time.”

Three, the man making the claim on the above statement is Russell Calame, the former chief of the FBI’s Salt Lake City office at the time of the McCoy caper, and co-author with Bernie Rhodes in the aforementioned DB Cooper, The Real McCoy.

Next is Duane Weber, a man with a mixed background that includes a two-year hitch in the Navy during WWII that ended with a dishonorable discharge, a four-month stay in the Army that was cut short when they determined him “undesirable,” and at least seventeen years in prison at six different prisons for forgery and burglary.

His widow, Jo, says that he confessed to being Dan Cooper as he was lingering near death in 1995.
She also relates a string of supporting circumstantial experiences, like an eerie trip from their home in Ft. Collins, Colorado to the shores of the Columbia River a few months before the $5,800 was found. Since then, Jo Weber has been on a quest to find the truth about her husband, and has received the support of the aforementioned FBI investigator, Ralph Himmelsbach. Journalist Douglas Pasternak writes in US News that Himmelsbach says Weber “is one of the best suspects he’s come across.”

Himmelsbach, now in retirement, is associated with another quirk in this story. He now lives in Woodburn, Oregon, just a few miles from where Barb Dayton says she buried the money. This fact is especially intriguing since The Daily specifically stated in 1979 that Woodburn was the landing site and depository for the money.

A CIA connection?

As for the hows and whys of multiple DB Coopers, one possibility is a top-secret CIA operation that was on-going during the same time period, specifically, the mind control program called MKULTRA (pronounced M-K ULTRA).

Could the multiple DB Coopers be part of some kind of Manchurian Candidate scenario? Could these guys have been brain-washed into thinking they were DB Cooper? Or is the case even weirder than that, such as the possibility that the case was part of a wild program to train special-operation agents and everybody had to hijack a plane to graduate?

The subject of two Hollywood movies, the Manchurian Candidate theme revolves around sophisticated psychological, surgical and pharmaceutical efforts to create a mind-controlled presidential candidate. However, the term is also widely used to describe the development of intelligence operatives whose conscious recall can be switched-off by their minders after any nefarious deed, such as a political assassination.

The CIA’s use of Manchurian Candidate-like techniques in its MKULTRA program was confirmed by US Congressional investigations during the 1970s. In fact, MKULTRA was a huge, clandestine CIA operation that supposedly began in 1953 to learn the secrets of brain-washing techniques in the interrogation of captured American soldiers by the communist forces during the Korean War.

However, the initial research programs morphed in many directions and eventually included experiments with LSD, sleep and sensory deprivation, electro-convulsive shock, and hypnosis. They were all designed to determine if a combination of technology and behavioral techniques could be developed to control an individual’s mind, mood, memory and emotions.

As for the size of MKULTRA, in some works, such as John Marks’, The Search for the Manchurian Candidate: The CIA and Mind Control, it is reported that the program encompassed 6% of the agency’s budget.

So, the MKULTRA shenanigans were very real, and according to subsequent research by journalists over the decades, never really shut down even though ordered to do so by Congress.

For instance, author Naomi Klein in Shock Doctrine, shows that the current usage of water-boarding and psychological torture during interrogations at Abu Ghrab and Gitmo started with MKULTRA, and they has never really stopped, apparently, although the military was ordered to do so.

Tragically, the level of sophistication has also grown.
Journalist and documentary film maker Jon Ronson details in his shocking book, The Men Who Stared at Goats, that the military’s attempt at mind-control has entered a new whole new phase. Since 1979, the military has sought to weaponize mind-over-matter techniques, such as biofeedback processes. Ronson describes a secretive unit at Fort Bragg that endeavored to kill their victims by mentally imaging the target dead. Specifically, they stared at goats, and focused on stopping the animal’s heart until the animal expired. Sadly, Ronson reports they have been successful.

With all of this going on in our military, is it that far-fetched to consider that the DB Cooper case is involved somehow?

Yes, the idea that Dayton, Gossett, McCoy, et al. were brainwashed into skyjacking a plane is a stretch. Nevertheless, let’s probe a bit deeper into the candidates’ psychological make-up and see if we can gain any hint of a connections between DB Cooper and mind-control.

Starting with Richard McCoy, Cooper researcher and former FBI agent, Richard Tosaw, writes in his book, DB Cooper- Dead or Alive? that Richard McCoy had a “mental breakdown with no warning whatsoever” in the fall of 1971, just months before the Cooper jump and eight months before his own skyjacking in the skies over Provo.

Tosaw says that McCoy was admitted to a psychiatric hospital and determined to be suffering from “a delayed stress syndrome, confusion and disorientation,” presumably from his two tours in Vietnam. Yet, he was back at his normal routine within days.

Tosaw also writes that McCoy’s buddy, Robert Van Ieperen, is at a loss to explain why McCoy did the skyjacking, saying: “It couldn’t have been for the money, because that was never important to him. I think he saw it as an adventure, like it was a personal challenge. He enjoyed the excitement of testing his skill, and the more dangerous the situation the better he liked it.”

More confounding, Tosaw writes that at the time of his skyjacking McCoy was shouldering a heavy load of law enforcement classes at Brigham Young University and had already taken a qualifying test for the Utah State Patrol, scoring first state-wide.
Are these inconsistencies a sign of mind control, PTSD, or an unstable gung-ho warrior?

Another behavioral clue that pops up quickly is that several of the current suspects had issues with sexuality and relationships: Dayton experienced both genders, Christenson, according to Gray, was known to invite runaway boys to live with him, while Gossett had five wives, and Weber had six or seven – his widow doesn’t know for sure – plus a common-law marriage.

Further, many held multiple jobs or had disjointed careers. Most pulled macho military stints; knew planes and were paratroopers.

Also, several were criminally minded – Weber had an extensive record, McCoy died in a shoot-out, and Barb Dayton enjoyed fantasizing on how to pull-off the perfect crime.

Further, a look into Barb Dayton’s clinical record gives us a clue as to what may be going on.
Specifically, Barb Dayton had more than a sex-change operation - she also picked up a new personality. As a man Dayton was a brawling tough-guy; but as a woman she was a witty, quiet librarian.

Better yet, she could switch between the two personalities as if she was trained. Ron Forman says he saw her adopt her macho, masculine persona at will. Did the CIA train her to do so?

Seeking a link, I asked Barb Dayton’s daughter, Rena Ruddell, if she had any inkling of her father being a subject of a secret mind-control program.
“No,” she said, but added that her father and her uncle, Bobby’s brother Billie, often went off to Mexico for long, vagabonding trips.

“Maybe something happened to them in Mexico,” she added. “My cousins sure think so, plus, Billie became schizophrenic later in life and was obsessed with UFOs. Maybe that’s a connection.”

If mind-control activity plays any role in the DB Cooper case, could there have been one official DB Cooper skyjacking then, such as Flight 305, combined with other simulated virtual-reality skyjackings as part of some kind of black-ops training exercise?

Shedding light on this possibility is Ralph Himmelsbach, who writes in his memoirs, NORJAK: the Investigation of DB Cooper, that Northwest Orient knew their 727 would fly adequately at 10,000 feet with a lowered aft staircase because the CIA was doing just that to sky-drop agents and supplies behind enemy lines.

Looking more closely, Himmelsbach also reveals that in the eight months after Cooper’s jump, twenty other skyjackers used MOs similar to DB’s. Most got busted during their caper, but four were successful such as McCoy, albeit only for a short while.

Is any of this related? Are the DB Coopers CIA alumni from Vietnam or graduates of a CIA mind-control laboratory, or both? Or are the Cooper suspects just an unrelated bunch of dare-devils?

Nevertheless, MKULTRA was a real mind-control operation, and Cathy O’Brien, author of Trance Formation of America says that she was a subject of the MKULTRA experiments that bears light on the Cooper case.

In testimony before the US House of Representatives, she has given detailed accounts of how sexual abuse shocked her mind into compartmentalized sections and transformed her into a person who had multiple personalities, all for CIA purposes.

The goal, O’Brien says, was to be the ultimate intelligence courier: deliver a message in one personality, get switched off into another personality, then walk out totally unaware of the mission and unable to spill the beans if caught.

O’Brien’s claim reflects similarly to Barb Dayton’s dual personalities. Certainly, Dayton’s ability to switch personas gave her the grandest of disguises. What better skill for an intelligence operative to possess than to be able to flip from man to woman, and back, with just a wig and a few garments needed to complete the ruse?

Reno

The biggest red flag that points to mind-control is what happened in Reno when Cooper’s plane landed for refueling on its way to Mexico.

Meeting Flight 305 was a combined team of FBI agents from the Las Vegas and Reno offices. According to Bernie Rhodes, Russ Calame’ co-author of DB Cooper- The Real McCoy, the feds quickly ascertained that Cooper as gone, but something very strange happened during their subsequent investigations aboard the plane.

First, there is uncertainty on who did the actual dusting for fingerprints – the FBI or Reno City Police.
Secondly, the FBI failed to retrieve any on-flight magazines that Cooper was suspected of handling during the hours Flight 305 circled Sea-Tac.

And lastly, the FBI released the plane back to Northwest Orient the next morning at 9 am, losing forever any chance for gathering additional evidence.

Twenty-four hours later, the FBI crime lab in Washington DC reported the fingerprints were too badly smudged to be of any value, and without the magazines or any other material to dust, the FBI was left without a vital body of evidence.

Whispers flew throughout FBI field offices wondering how and why the Reno group could foul-up the evidence retrieval so badly.

In researching his book, Rhodes interviewed many of the Reno crew in 1985, and he uncovered the most startlingly information: the recall of some of the agents regarding their assignments is wildly at odds with one another.

According to Rhodes, four agents conducted the collection of evidence aboard the plane: Jack Ricks, John Norris, Alf Stousland and Special Agent in Charge Harold “Red” Campbell.

Rhodes writes that Ricks remembers Stousland dusting for fingerprints while Ricks himself collected cigarette butts and paper cups.

However, John Norris recalled the Reno City PD performing the fingerprint dusting.

Further, during his interviews with members of the larger FBI team on ground duty, several agents had difficulty recalling exactly what they did that night.

As Rhodes describes it, the agents weren’t purposefully forgetful, but rather, their minds seemed fuzzy. Rhodes was aghast, and interviewed the agents on two additional occasions in 1989 to see if their memory would improve. They didn’t.

Most disturbing though, not one agent remembers retrieving, or even seeing, the most dramatic piece of evidence DB Cooper left on the airplane – his clip-on tie and a pearl tie pin. This, despite flight attendant Tina Mucklow telling her FBI debriefers she remembered seeing DB take it off and place it on the seat beside him. Rhodes characterizes his discussion on this issue with the FBI team “as if they were victims of some strange posthypnotic suggestion.”

In addition, Cooper’s tie and clasp were not included in the initial written FBI evidence report from Reno, but were sent to Seattle four days later and are now the featured part of the evidentiary collection. But how come the feds in Reno missed it?

Could their cognitive abilities have been reduced by hypnosis or technological means? Did their brains get blitzed by MKULTRA-style electrical frequency machines? Or was the tie and pin a plant, and Tina Mucklow was the one who got zapped and told a hypnotically-implanted story? Did somebody sabotage the FBI’s investigation in Reno?

Plus, whatever happened with skin and hair samples from the head-rest cover, bits of clothing thread left in the fibers of Cooper’s seat, or dirt on the floor deposited from his shoes? Were these pieces of evidence ever collected?

Loose Ends

Barb Dayton’s story is close to air-tight except for one thing: her bundle of $5,800 in twenties was not the only thing found at the Columbia River beach. The site, known as Tena’s Bar, was extensively excavated by the FBI after little Brian Ingram found the stash, and the feds discovered pieces of twenty-dollar bills in multiple locations, some as deep as three deep.

That suggests either some pretty fancy hydrologic repositioning by Mother Nature (or the US Army Corps of Engineers who dredged that part of the river in 1974 and threw the muck onto the beach, as reported by Richard Tosaw), or multiple burials by Barb, or multiple burials by many other people.

Could burying bits of twenties at Tena’s Bar have been part of a MKULTRA ritual to embed “Cooper-ness” into the subconsciousness memory of the team members? Is that what Duane Weber was doing on his mysterious road trip to Portland?

Also, the facts about Ariel as a jump site are curiously at odds with each other. Ron Forman says the FBI picked Ariel based on the radar tracking conducted by McChord Air Base. Plus, a plastic laminated card with instructions on how to lower the aft stairs in a Boeing 727 was found in the general vicinity of the original ground search many years later by a hunter, and when Boeing repaired the stairs damaged in the landing at Reno, they found it was missing its instructional card.

So, was Captain Scott mistaken as to his exact position that night, or did a MKULTRA mastermind fudge a military radar report and slip an instructional card into the woods?

Last Word

As for probing the netherworld of possible governmental cover-ups, it’s going to take a while to go beyond the literature searches and a few friendly phone calls.

So, in the meantime, let’s go back to the original thread that we began pulling in the beginning: was Barb Dayton DB Cooper? Here, I’ll give Barb Dayton’s daughter, Rena, the final say:

“I asked him once, out-right,” Rena declared. “But he was evasive, simply saying, ‘Whoever that was must have been a very brave person.’ My father didn’t tell lies. He was pretty much on the up and up.

“Much later, I asked my mother if my father was DB Cooper, and she said, ‘He could be - he had the mind for it.’

“So, yes, I really, truly believe my father was DB Cooper.”

©
Bruce A. Smith
2009
PO Box 1676 Yelm, Washington 98597

[377 22]

Bruce,

I have a job for you writing the next Bourne Identity screenplay.

I love this far out MK Ultra CIA conspiracy stuff. I don't think it really happened, but I love fantasizing that it might have. Kinda the way I feel about UFOs and Sasquatch.

Do you think that the WTC buildings were brought down solely by the impact/fire damage from the two hijacked airliners?

Was Oswald the lone JFK assassin?

I just am running a calibration check on you to get a reference point. Please don't take offense.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[SafecrackingPLF 0]

Bruce,

You forgot to mention the sinister truth that Cooper was part of the reptilian race.

Why do you think he had that dark complexion?

Those damn reptilians. I swear, they run the world. This why Cooper got away, he was reptilian.

Next time, don't omit the truth Bruce.

[377 22]

Safe,

If posting conspiracy theories is all it takes to bring you back to the forum I'll post em a lot.

I have a key word set and decision tree macro that can generate an MS Word doc setting forth pretty good conspiracy theories on any subject. Art Bell was a licensee.

It is no coincidence that Norjack took place in the same area of the Pacific NW targeted by the so called Fugu Balloons during WW 2. These were no more Japanese balloons than the Roswell UFO was an American one. People were killed by Fugus, so don't listen to those CIA drones that say UFOs have never harmed anyone.

Welcome back and stick around a bit this time.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[georger 257]

Quote

Quote

Quote

I know of no standards on this Georger. I have a jumper friend who enjoys doing HAHO lunch jumps, really. He has a special lunch pouch that fastens to the front of his harness. He eats his lunch while flying under canopy.

377

Im more concerned with failure to eat (under stress)
prior to a jump - can cause dizziness and elevated
heart rythm (metabolic) in older men. Can result
in metabolic crash if blood sugars drop (loss of blood pressure and body temp). Cooper asked
food be brought to the plane for the crew - did he eat any? Ive brought this up before but nobody addressed it.

Ahhh, Georger sees a possible diminshed capacity defense if Cooper is ever caught. Although I am sure it was sensationalized by the press, Dan White's defense in the murder of SF Mayor George Moscone and gay activist supervisor Harvey Milk was based on a claim of hypoglycemia and/or insulin shock brought on by eating Hostess Twinkies and has been called the Twinkie defense. Airline peanuts are actually pretty healthy, but we dont know what he consumed other than Burbon.

How could you handle a Burbon drink glass or cup without getting your prints on it?

377

The Twinkie Defense. Remember it. I had something else in mind based on other evidence in Cooper's
kit.

BTW, no evidence of Duane Weber's medical issues
ever turned up in the Cooper evidence kit, along with
dna. Jo always makes such a big issue about the dna
being compromised but she forgets the 144 elements on the periodic table! Jo never finished Kinderfarm but she sure can post her sociopathy.

[377 22]

Quote

The Twinkie Defense. Remember it. I had something else in mind based on other evidence in Cooper's
kit.

What might that "other evidence" be Georger?

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[snowmman 3]

Quote

Bruce,

I have a job for you writing the next Bourne Identity screenplay.

I love this far out MK Ultra CIA conspiracy stuff. I don't think it really happened, but I love fantasizing that it might have. Kinda the way I feel about UFOs and Sasquatch.

Do you think that the WTC buildings were brought down solely by the impact/fire damage from the two hijacked airliners?

Was Oswald the lone JFK assassin?

I just am running a calibration check on you to get a reference point. Please don't take offense.

377

I had the same thought 377.
Bruce sounded perfectly sane and intelligent.
But then he writes tabloid journalism.
I'm assuming, it's just feeding the maw to get the paycheck.

It's weird. I'm called a whacko, yet there are journalists doing crazy stuff, FBI agents doing even crazier stuff, and "scientists" saying even crazier stuff.

Seriously. Me and the crazy lady are holding the fort on sanity, I think.

And the local shrink, georger, well, 'nuff said.

And sluggo beating on me for not doing a kumbaya and holding hands around everyone who wants to join the Citizen's Work Force that neither Ckret or TK are organizing but are organizing and asking for help with but don't want help or shared information.

[snowmman 3]

TK apparently knows the exact manufacturer of the rubber bands.
I'm assuming that means he knows the size and width of the bands.

In his test run, he twisted rubber bands multiple times around the bills. A lot. More than I would have expected. I'm assuming that means he used really big rubber bands, not multiples.

In any case, I was always wondering whether the Cooper rubber bands were doubled (or more) around the bundles.

We talked a little about additional chemical compounds in the rubber bands.

In reading about film preservation, they mentioned taking rubber bands off the reels, because when they deteriorate, they leave almost-permanent sulfur stains that are very hard to remove.

I had always been looking for marks on the found bills, that might be a shadow of a narrow rubber band in the middle. Couldn't really see anything good.

but it would be interesting if there were sulfur deposits. It would only be on the top and bottom bills I guess.

BUT: if the bands were still there, just crumbling to dust, then the bills that the bands were touching should have still been there..and any chemicals from the rubber bands, should have stained/migrated?

Just something I was wondering about. Probably not able to find the right bills to really analyze this..although the serial numbers of the "top" bills in the bundles are visible in some of the bundle photos we have...so conceivably it's doable to identify them.

[377 22]

Quote

And sluggo beating on me for not doing a kumbaya and holding hands around everyone who wants to join the Citizen's Work Force that neither Ckret or TK are organizing but are organizing and asking for help with but don't want help or shared information.

Gee Snow, dont you have any nostalgia for the 60s? Maybe you were hard core east coast Weather Underground while others were reaping the immediate benefits of the kumbaya approach in Berkeley.

That cold weather makes people bitter, vengeful and over clothed.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[snowmman 3]

Quote

Quote

And sluggo beating on me for not doing a kumbaya and holding hands

Gee Snow, dont you have any nostalgia for the 60s? Maybe you were hard core east coast Weather Underground while others were reaping the immediate benefits of the kumbaya approach in Berkeley.

That cold weather makes people bitter, vengeful and over clothed.

377

Hey I do remember Woodstock, though. I was stuck in traffic jams in the back seat of my parent's station wagon while we were driving home on vacation from the Catskills. All I remember is them attributing it to "Woodstock" whatever that was. I did eventually work for someone who was legitimately there though.

The first time I heard/held the Woodstock album, was in the back of a trashed trailer owned by two vets from Vietnam. Tom and Ed. They let me and John play with a busted .22 they had. They had keg parties where guys with motorcycles showed up in force. Had a cool hand crossbow we played with. They were building a house, and had dreams of hiring a maid that would always wear a French Maid's outfit. I remember hanging off the house whacking nails into the plywood. Don't know if that house ever got finished.
They had a crazy-assed dog that wanted to eat my head.

It was quite a thing for a kid, sitting in that trailer, with two crazy guys back from Vietnam, listening to "And it's 1-2-3-4, what are we fighting for? Don't ask me I don't give a damn, my next stop is Vietnam"

The police eventually came and took away all the cool stuff.

[377 22]

Wonder what the 60s were like for DBC? I see a guy in SE Asia and going through some very stressful stuff. Just a hunch. I just can't get that Air America smoke jumper CIA SE Asia 727 linkage out of my head.

I just don't picture Cooper as a guy who had a lot of free time and free love experiences during the 60s. His formality ("excuse me miss") tells me he was in a different space. i think Bruce might have something to say about this.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[BruceSmith 3]

Why, 377, you want to calibrate me? Gee. I'm blushing.

Well, let me help, and touch a few of those buttons for you....

As for the WTC Blg I and 2, yes, I'm concerned that more than jet fuel and burning carpets brought them down. Inside job? Hmmm. Dr. Jones from BYU sure offers compelling information on that possibility. I've talked with the guy and he seems pretty straight-forward, but for the facts, I'd be hard pressed to offer any.

Along those lines, I am equally concerned about the movie, United 93, that I saw in my local multiplex. The plot of the movie reveals that the first responders to the hole in Shankersville couldn't find the plane.

However, I'm more concerned with WTC 7.

As for JFK, I've seen many wondrous things in my life -inexplictable mysteries and beautious sights - but I have never seen a magic bullet. Have you?

As for MKULTRA and CIA stuff, I'm a little confused by your comments. Are you saying you don't believe that MKULTRA was real? Or that it was real, but doesn't have anything to do with DB Cooper?

Regarding UFOs and Sasquatch, well, let me just say that my commentaries on my alien-abduction-phenomena experiences on Multnomah Cable TV in the early 1990s were the most requested shows for re-play. Ahhh, where are my people when I need them most...Helloooo Portland.....

And Sasquatch. Well, I've never seen him, nor smelled him, but I do live thirty miles north of the Dark Divide, which has the most reported S. sightings of any spot on Earth. So, I do keep an eye out for him when I go for my late night walks, after posting here at 2 am.

Bourne Identity screenplays? Funny you should ask, for I just had a conversation a few moments ago with another journalist about my chronic inability to sell my work. Solution? - simple: I'm just going to remove the "non" from in front of the "fiction" on the manuscript headers. That way, everybody's happy and I get rich.

But, unfortuneately, I seem to have a profound need to tell the truth as I know it. Alas, that dream of wealth was so fleeting...but it was so real......!

By the way, 377, what do I get calibrated against, or with? Pray tell. What do you hold to be bed-rock truth, down amongst the deepest of places in the center of your soul?

[snowmman 3]

377 got me searching after reading his reports of stolen aircraft stunts.

Robert K. Preston is interesting. 1974

He dropped out of helicopter school, but managed to steal an Army UH-1B heli and fly to the White House, force down one of two police choppers, and then land on the White House lawn while being shot at with shotguns and machine guns.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_K._Preston

We get all worked up about a little training for a jump.

But how about jumping into a UH-1B (Huey) and taking off, with incomplete training, and flying over the White House? (he was 20 years old, helicopter maintenance guy, flunked out of the instrument stuff in flight school)

http://news.google.com/archivesearch?um=1&ned=us&hl=en&q=robert+k.+preston

Oh, and the followup: they called him a psych case at first, but
the final thing was court-martial, six months (or year) at hard labor, and $2400 fine. Not bad. Don't know if there's video.
He only served 2 months.

http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F50A11F935581A7493C2AA1783D85F408785F9

Evidently he was shot at in the air also, from a Maryland State Police helicopter.

Oh and p.s.
He landed at the White House at 2 A.M. at night.

[BruceSmith 3]

Quote

Wonder what the 60s were like for DBC? I see a guy in SE Asia and going through some very stressful stuff. Just a hunch. I just can't get that Air America smoke jumper CIA SE Asia 727 linkage out of my head.

I just don't picture Cooper as a guy who had a lot of free time and free love experiences during the 60s. His formality ("excuse me miss") tells me he was in a different space. i think Bruce might have something to say about this.

377

Yup, I see much of the same thing. Not much free love, but maybe an occasional slam, bam, thank you, ma'am.

I draw upon much of Barb Dayton here - when, as Bobby, he re-up into the Merchant Marine and ran munitions ships to Saigon out of San Francisco. Picked the ships with the biggest risks so he'd get the most hazard-duty pay. Couldn't sleep one night and caught a VC coming on board with a sachel charge. Killed him with his bear hands, and the VC was a longshoreman he had worked with the day before.

Doesn't that sound like the Danny C. you know?

I find the Smokejumpers-CIA-Air America-Cooper link the most intriguing thing I've come across in these pages.

I've also enjoyed learning the perspectives of the parachuting community. From that, my sense is that DB Cooper hadn't done a whole lot of skydiving, but had done enough to make himself believe he could do the jump. I think DB had little formal, academic training, but rather, flew by the seat of his pants in all that he did.

[snowmman 3]

Cousin Brucie asked:

"By the way, 377, what do I get calibrated against, or with? Pray tell. What do you hold to be bed-rock truth, down amongst the deepest of places in the center of your soul? "


It's the way the sentences are written...all breathless and panting. I mean, even my snip of yours above is all breathy.

The Cooper story is boring. It only deserves a recitation of facts and possibilities. But no one reads that. And no one tells you anything real, so you have to make up stuff. You have absolutely no current sources, even though the FBI investigation is supposed to be "hot".

Like 377 wrote, you write like a fiction spy novel.

Need shorter sentences.

If Cooper blew the pilot's brains out with a shotgun, you'd write shorter sentences. Because then people are revolted.

[BruceSmith 3]

Quote

Bruce,

You forgot to mention the sinister truth that Cooper was part of the reptilian race.

Why do you think he had that dark complexion?

Those damn reptilians. I swear, they run the world. This why Cooper got away, he was reptilian.

Next time, don't omit the truth Bruce.

Please believe me, Safe, omitting any mention of the Reptilian race was a complete oversight on my part. I'll try to bring it in somewhere in Chapter Two.

Besides olive-skinned, considered the cold-blooded aspect - heck, who needs long johns at 10K in November when you're a Rep!

Nevertheless, I do wonder about those scaly fellows.
David Icke! Please return my emails!