DB Cooper

[georger 257]

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To correction your misinformation:

Ah if you bother to look the thread already existed:
http://www.thescienceforum.com/D.B.-Cooper-9518t.php

Its a science forum where crackpots and Jo Weber arent allowed. It's too lo-profile for you seeking attention.

Its interesting you would be searching for DB Cooper
forums at this time? That's funny-predictable. Are
you looking to spread your feces on a bigger wall?

My Dearest Baboon,

I found your site a couple of days ago and if you think the Scientic allocation will keep "Cooper Junkies" or the general internet junkies out you are badly mistaken. I do not know how many sites you have visited in the last 8 yrs, but the survival rate along with the intellect input has been low.

Snowmman and myself (Jo) are the least of your worries with all the rest of the Cooper sites out there. If you think there are feces thrown out on this forum you are absolutely a babe in arms and need to stay within the giant umbrella of the jumping world and a well moderated forum.

Cooper thread have done more to advance interest in the Cooper saga and the discovery of evidence and possible solutions than any other instrument or investigative group out there and that includes the FBI.

The FBI and Cooper enthusiast and writers have grazed in this forum for a long time. The general public really has little knowledge of Cooper, but in this world he is an Icon gone wild. The jumping world is divided amongest believers and non-believers regarding Cooper's survival.

I will also note that in the Skyjumping forum the intellect of the posters is 99.99% higher than what I have found in other places.
Many of us are worried that the DZ forum is facing problems and want to know what we can do to help them to continue to provide this service...such as a limited and reduced membership for those of us who are Whuffo's.

Thank Guys, I love you all and you have been the greatest - even when you think I am CRAZY and I call myself CRAZY. I have to be crazy to believe that I was married to Cooper?

The Cooper battle is NOT over yet for me, but it is going to take more than limited contacts in a forum. It is time for me to TRY to go forward with something I have put off far too long. It is something I REALLY DO NOT want to do - but, find the FBI's profiling based on a comic book ludicrous.

The FBI cannot spend money to do some simple searches but the FBI can spend money for Agent Carr to promote fanciful ideals in their online site. Is the FBI trying to find Cooper or promote a MYTH?

Patients always know more than the doctors.
Patients always give advice to the doctors.
That's how you know the patients from the doctors.
Problem is, the patients never see this!
The same applies to suspects vrs. the FBI!

[snowmman 3]

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snowmman,

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I got a PM from some guy asking about the weather, saying he wanted to do an analysis. etc.

"Some guy" is a Disabled American Veteran, an aeronautical engineer, has jumped, and has 1750 flight hours.

You replied:
"Weather varies. Depends on where you're looking. You should talk to the FBI. They would know."

Do you work for MicroSoft or something? (Answers to questions are 100% accurate and totally useless.)

I'm glad to know you are serving this community by helping talented people who want to discover for themselves what might have happened on 11/24/2009. They are the kind of folks who don't just take the FBI's word for everything. I know you appreciate that.

Good job!

Sluggo_Monster

Hi Sluggo.

We can discuss this if you like.

What kind of analysis was proposed, for what proposed goal? A project plan as it were?...not just "analysis".

Why was it considered useful to involve me?

I think my answer was right on. In fact I think it's still the correct answer. Thanks for posting it.

If there is some alternative that's better than my answer, let's discuss it.

I believe, from watching the news video and reading the FBI web site, that all citizens who want to help on this case are being asked to contribute starting with an email address on the FBI web site.

I would encourage everyone to do so.

(edit) I would note that I am wrong no matter what I do. I am a low-life, I am repellant, I toss feces according to Georger. There is no reason I should be a trusted source for any information, or even theories. 377 has pointed out my bias wrt FBI. etc.

I think the stress/conflict, is that Ckret, and TK (and partner) and etc have built this fake idea of a Citizen's Work Force on the Cooper case. That doesn't exist. I know you want there to be a "community" But there isn't one. Why would I create even more deception, when it seems that's de riguer around the Cooper case, even today.

I am being absolutely correct in saying "I know nothing. If you have questions, talk to the FBI".

(edit) And while I don't work for MSFT, and acknowledge their negatives, their impact on society has been amazing. They won, and my hat is off to them. Sure a little crime along the way, but lawyers need jobs too.

[snowmman 3]

TK was reported as passing on the manufacturer's information that the rubber bands could only last "in the wild" for 3 or 4 months.

This is really bad stuff from a scientist because "in the wild" is pure emotion. It doesn't describe a test setup. Exposed to air/wind/sun? Or buried under sand/water? Sitting in water? What about damp sand? Or alternately dry/wet sand? O2 content of surrounding? Temperature? Some microbe assumption? or none?

At best, it means there is at least one test setup where they "fail" in 3 or 4 months. What does "only last" mean anyhow?

They can go crumbly and/or gooey and "last" dysfunctionally for a long time. Does "only last" mean "no longer functional as rubber bands are intended?" Or what? That they disappear?

I mention this only for people doing science, since obviously there is no data in this quote that is useful.

If TK is actually saying that rubber bands go past crumbly, in 3 to 4 months, for most or all of the theorized environmental conditions we've discussed, (burial, cold, soaking wet or ???) that would be huge new info, and we could discuss if it is accurate.

But on it's face, I think we have to say "don't know if it means anything".

The quote:


(I corrected the typo referring to TK as "Burke" here)

"They told us that rubber bands only last in the wild 3 or 4 months at the most," TK adds. "So this is in conflict with the idea that they would be rolling down the river for seven years," begging the question was the money there all along? Burke’s answer a simple, "maybe."

[snowmman 3]

really. I just discovered it when they added their DBC vid.

It's called

FBIDOTGOV
created May 21,2008

http://www.youtube.com/user/FBIDOTGOV

You can see a closeup of the reward note TK included in the money bundles he littered/dispersed. They were put in the river 3/1/09 apparently.

They have 12 videos. Just one DBC.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtKDb0gQ9hQ

[Orange1 0]

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Ckret posted his Cooper as a former aircrew loadmaster/kicker theory long before the Air America stuff came to light here. Did the FBI already know about all that SE Asia covert air ops stuff including 727 jumps but did not disclose it?

377

very possibly, remember there was a reference to the 727 jumps in that 1995 newspaper article snow posted - so it wasn't ever a "real secret" (or at least not for more than a decade now), and i guess in the age before the internet was widespread the FBI would have been able to find the info easier than us people in the street
of course your post implies a more interesting question - which is whether the FBI had some kind of lead that Cooper was actually involved in some way there. for all our deductions etc so far in this forum it remains just enticing speculation.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[Orange1 0]

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377, I think, has made some musings on the likelihood of men of Cooper's era, reading comic books and serving as a loadmaster.

The two seem a little incongruous.

The other thing about jump experience: I thought most military jumpers would have been static line. So pretty inexperienced with freefall.

And while a stick is going out, the airborne safety wears a emergency rig, right? But saying "airborne safety" experience doesn't make sense I guess. But loadmaster does? Why? Loadmasters understand parachutes.

So, I would think most paratroopers wouldn't have much experience in doing freefall, if any. We talked about the relatively small number of jumps involved in military training before.

I don't know why loadmaster was selected for profile. There are some mentions of Cooper using the phrase "interphone" in, say, the Real McCoy book, but I thought Ckret discounted that.
His use of "airstair" and "interphone" was mentioned as part of his "aviation knowledge"..but that could be myth or bogus, and even cribbed off Tina. (can anyone sort how this "airstair" or "interphone" stuff. Did Ckret discount it?)

Behaviorally, Cooper doesn't seem like loadmaster to me.
I think it is actually a dis to the professionalism of loadmasters?

Are there any loadmasters out there? Is it an insult or not to couple the "cluelessness" of Cooper with loadmasters?

What are people's theories on why loadmaster was a good choice? I have a hard time understanding Cooper as military.

(edit) Would a loadmaster have asked for a knapsack for the money, and then just dealt with it, when he got an open necked money bag?

2 things: paratroopers do also do freefall (read up on HALO etc jumps). i've asked here before but not received an answer, as to when freefall became more "standard" for paratroopers vs static line only. our local army has freefalling paratroopers and our police special unit also gets trained in freefall - had the pleasure to meet some of these guys and their plane, but that's another story
2nd thing - loadmaster does not necessarily make cooper "a military man". all the stuff on smokejumpers - these were guys who worked as smokejumpers in fire season, then went to SE Asia as cargo kickers or loadmasters in the "off" season, working for air america. not a military profile as such.

When you say

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Behaviorally, Cooper doesn't seem like loadmaster to me.

i'd be interested to know what you think a loadmaster's behaviour would have been like and how it differs from Cooper's.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[Orange1 0]

aha - when in doubt, there is always wiki.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HALO/HAHO

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HALO/HAHO are acronyms that describe methods of delivering personnel, equipment, and supplies from a transport aircraft at a high altitude via free-fall parachute insertion. HALO (High Altitude-Low Opening) and HAHO (High Altitude-High Opening) are also known as Military Free Falls (MFF).

In the HALO technique, the parachutist opens his parachute at a low altitude after free-falling for a period of time, while in the HAHO technique, the parachutist opens his parachute at a high altitude just a few seconds after jumping from the aircraft. HALO techniques date back to 1960 when the U.S. Air Force was conducting experiments that followed earlier work by Colonel John Stapp in the late 1940s[1] through early 1950s on survivability factors for high-flying pilots needing to eject at high altitudes.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[Orange1 0]

reading further in the above article - this on HALO specifically:

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However, the technique was used for combat for the first time during the Vietnam War in Laos by members of MACV-SOG. SEAL Team SIX of the United States Navy expanded the HALO technique to include delivery of boats and other large items in conjunction with parachutists.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[377 22]

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of course your post implies a more interesting question - which is whether the FBI had some kind of lead that Cooper was actually involved in some way there. for all our deductions etc so far in this forum it remains just enticing speculation.

Exactly! Carr's profile is soooo specific. It really makes me wonder what info the FBI has that we have not been shown. Every investigator is mindful of looking bad if their stated profile turns out to be hugely different from the true profile of the guy who did the crime. For that reason they are often a bit vague, like fortune tellers, giving general terms that would fit a wide range of people.

Loadmaster is really specific. Sure, there is some publicly available evidence that is consistent with loadmaster, but it is also consistent with many other explanations as to Cooper's background and experience.

Since there is evidence that points away from aircrew/airdrop experience (like inadequate shoes and clothing) what makes Carr stay on the loadmaster profile in spite of contrary evidence? There must be something.

I just have a hunch that the FBI knows more than we do that points them towards aircrew, loadmaster, etc. Maybe it was something very loadmaster specific that Cooper said to the 727 crew and has not been published. I am of course just guessing.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[snowmman 3]

Orange1 asked: "i'd be interested to know what you think a loadmaster's behaviour would have been like and how it differs from Cooper's."

(edit) I guess I focused on loadmaster+military because of the FBI air force crew mentions.

McCoy's behavior seemed more military..i.e. thinking "success" is tied to micromanaging a bunch of black and white details...i.e. "mission" style thinking.

McCoy has been described as displaying how an experienced jumper "would do it"

I think that's wrong, and I've printed the stuff that said he only started free-fall in Oct (hijack in April).

McCoy's behavior seems military to me. I think his military-like thinking was confused into being described as "experienced jumper-like thinking".

I think a loadmaster would not use as much of a fly-by-the-seat-of-pants type of behavior as Cooper did.

Cooper seems to either be non-jumper, or civilian jump experience, to me.

I think the initial request by Schaffner was passed incorrectly and that Cooper may have asked for "two back parachutes and two chest parachutes". I think the lack of further specificity (unlike McCoy) was not showing that he was whuffo, but more that he thought that simple instruction was enough to get him what he wanted.

Note that he specified knapsack for the money. So he's thinking about giving enough detail, in his mind, to get what he wants.
I think the lack of more detail, meant that things were obvious to him, that weren't as obvious to others (i.e. the emergency rig being supplied, unusable with chest reserve).

But the "no jump experience" ...just whuffo, is a reasonable theory too.

(edit) I'm second guessing myself, but thinking about LaPoint as another military background example, LaPoint was kind of wild.
But he was a wild guy, just out of the service. Young.

So dunno. Can't generalize I guess.

[snowmman 3]

Just noticed this funny (I guess not funny) related detail in the C-141 hijack attempt in Vietnam (during the war) that I posted about. The loadmaster was the guy who got shot by the hijacker

repost:

You remember when I posted about the attempted hijack
of military jets in vietnam. There were apparently two attempts on c-141's. Now that's bizarre!

here's an actual air force plane history document that mentions the hijack and PVT Georger Hardin. (shots fired, loadmaster shot, plane damaged)
http://airforcehistoryindex.org/data/000/494/831.xml

more detail from:
http://www.c141heaven.com/mishap_paul_hansen.htm

"Synopsis: During an enroute stop, the aircraft was boarded by a hijacker, who took several crew members hostage. The hijacker shot the Loadmaster. In a subsequent struggle, the crew members overpowered the hijacker. Only the Loadmaster was injured.

The Starlifter was waiting for cargo during an enroute stop at Bien Hoa AB, RVN. The Aircraft Commander was at command post. The other six crew members were relaxing in the cargo compartment when a 20-year-old US Army Private entered through the open ramp, carrying an M-16. He ordered the crew into the cockpit and demanded that they fly him "somewhere". When the crew attempted to taxi, vehicles blocked their path. The hijacker ordered the Loadmaster into the cargo compartment, and then shot him three times. The crew advised authorities that the Loadmaster had been shot. The vehicles moved, and then again blocked the aircraft.

The crew was able to communicate over headsets without the knowledge of the hijacker. At a prearranged time, the Navigator grabbed the rifle barrel, as the Copilot and Flight Engineer lunged for the hijacker. In the struggle, 13 rounds were fired into the cockpit ceiling. The crew members were able to overpower and disarm the hijacker before turning him over to the Security Police. The Loadmaster survived, but was medically discharged. There were no other serious injuries.

There was at least one additional hijacking attempt of a C-141, also during the war in Vietnam."

[snowmman 3]

Thinking about loadmaster.

The emergency rigs they wore back then were just a single main, right? No reserve?

So why would Cooper ask for back and front chutes, if he was a loadmaster? (edit) Also thinking about the number of chest reserves in '71 without pilots...wouldn't you need training to understand how to deploy a chest rig? Or be whuffo?

Wouldn't a loadmaster just ask for a parachute?

(edit) looking back at Ckret's posts, he had a "loadmaster at McChord" theory last May. It seems like the McChord angle was loosened to be aviation-related job, but loadmaster was kept. I wonder if Ckret is still thinking loadmaster at McChord at some point?

[377 22]

Loadmasters (when they were chutes at all) just wear a back pack main bailout typoe rig, no reserve. Eugene Hasenfus was saved by one of these when his C 123 was hit over Centra America and apparently more than a few kickers in SE Asia were saved too when they fell out during airdrops.

Cooper may have ordered the reserves as money containers, planning to disard the canopy and just keep the container.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[snowmman 3]

Back in May 29, 2008, Ckret posted on some of his thinking about loadmaster. I just noticed something. He said the "bulk of the investigation was conducted on those with a high level of skill, either a sport jumper or someone with military jump experience."

What's interesting there, is that we never got any details on how complete the FBI investigation was, in terms of people with sport jumping experience. I've posted a lot on why I think it was incomplete. (basically because they focused on the wrong years, but I don't know).

Ckret also gave me an "attaboy". :)

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Ckret posted:

Orange,

The load master guess is a way to explain how someone would have the knowledge Cooper had about jumping and aircraft without actually having working knowledge of either.

As a load master he would have just enough information or exposure to dream up his escape, go through the motions of it but not have the working knowledge to successfully forward the plan.

The bulk of the investigation was conducted on those with a high level of skill, either a sport jumper or someone with military jump experience.

Snowmman,

Why would you be surprised that I could not understand your genius. Your brilliance shines too bright for mere mortals. I am blinded by it, maybe you could turn it down a notch.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
On May 28,2008 Ckret posted:

Sluggo,

I think he was going to bail out as soon as he was comfortable in doing so. On the assumption he was a load master during his military service, he would have a good understanding when he could jump based on the cargo he threw out of planes.

I also think there was a part of him that didn't think the plan would work at all. When he got the money the stews said he changed and acted suprised and child like. I take that as, "oh shit, i can't believe this stupid ass plan worked, they actually gave me $200,000 dollars."

Soon after the reality sets in, "Oh damn!!! now I have to really jump from this plane."


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
May 29, 2008 Ckret posted

In regard to military service (I have posted and disscussed it many times) the theory is he was a Load Master operating out of McCord.

[snowmman 3]

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Loadmasters (when they were chutes at all) just wear a back pack main bailout typoe rig, no reserve. Eugene Hasenfus was saved by one of these when he C 123 was hit over Centra America and apparently more than a few kicker in SE Asia were saved too when they fell out during airdrops.

Cooper may have ordered the reserves as money containers, planning to disard the canopy and just keep the container.

377

Hi 377,

The chest-as-money-container makes sense when you know Cooper got the open necked money bag.

But it doesn't make sense when you think about him ordering a knapsack. A knapsack wouldn't fit in a chest container.

what do you think about that?

[snowmman 3]

I'm mulling over the military experiences of all the jumping hijackers, again.

I hadn't focused on Hahneman's military experience before (which I think had the coolest jump) because I thought he was a civilian contractor during the Vietnam War.

But I was just looking at another news article, where Hahneman claims to have "fought" in 3 wars...WWII, Korea, Vietnam. I guess not clear what roles in each (maybe civilian contracting)

377: We talked about Hahneman's job role before. I thought he had worked connected to helicopters.

This article says he was an Air Force radar technician

Interesting! I know 377 was Cooper. Once the radar background was admitted.


p.s. I've posted before about the excruciatingly detailed lists of gear Hahneman asked for, including the cigarette brand and number. Benson & Hedges.

(edit) so people don't have to search. He got six parachutes with the money. From my prior posts, I noticed it was interesting he asked for the money to be exchanged into bigger bills. (even though his $303,000 was mostly $100 to start with)

Hahneman was American citizen born in Honduras. Puerto Castilla. Honduran mother. Father of German "extraction". Had been trained as a radar operator and flight crew member with US Army Air Corps in World War II.

He also demanded two cartons of Benson & Hedges cigarettes, fuel, bush knives, jump suits and crash helmets. He traded the mostly $100 bills when they landed again after 5 hours, for larger $500 and $1000 bills. DZ was suspected to be near San Pedro Sula, in the jungle about 20 miles from the Caribbean coast.

[377 22]

Hard to say about the knapsack. I have sometimes wondered if he intended to have the money come down under a reserve canopy with the money in a knapsack. Crazy idea, but crazy hijacker too.

The lack of D rings on a typical bailout rig makes me wonder what he was thinking ordering the reserves (chest packs or front packs or whatever he called them) but all he would have needed to secure a reserve to anything were a couple of carabiners. I think a loadmaster would come with some of his own hardware as their whole job is about securing loads and attaching things.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[snowmman 3]

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Hard to say about the knapsack. I have sometimes wondered if he intended to have the money come down under a reserve canopy with the money in a knapsack. Crazy idea, but crazy hijacker too.

The lack of D rings on a typical bailout rig makes me wonder what he was thinking ordering the reserves (chest packs or front packs or whatever he called them) but all he would have needed to secure a reserve to anything were a couple of carabiners. I think a loadmaster would come with some of his own hardware as their whole job is about securing loads and attaching things.

377

I thought about the separate canopy for the money too.
But a loadmaster would know that it would be way too high risk, because of the separation when he landed on the ground vs the money. Likely you wouldn't find the money. (edit) and where would you pull the money chute? on the stairs and toss it? I guess that might work. In Vietnam I was reading about improvised canopies from ponchos for improvised air drops.

Now I threw out the idea of deploying both the main and the reserve, to slow down the descent rate, especially when loaded down with the money. Was thinking of this when I saw a picture of someone landing with both main and reserve deployed (both rounds).

We've discussed this before. I think it would still work as a nice way of dealing with descent rate.

HEY: new thought. If cooper did a dual deploy (not, because of the reserve he grabbed, plus no D-rings)...then his descent rate would have been a lot slower and the DZ would have been miscalculated! funny thought (but improbable)

[SKYWHUFFO 1]

Snow, you only like this story because the private is named after your arch nemesis from this board, Georger! HA!



here's an actual air force plane history document that mentions the hijack and PVT Georger Hardin. (shots fired, loadmaster shot, plane damaged)
http://airforcehistoryindex.org/data/000/494/831.xm

[snowmman 3]

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Snow, you only like this story because the private is named after your arch nemesis from this board, Georger! HA!



here's an actual air force plane history document that mentions the hijack and PVT Georger Hardin. (shots fired, loadmaster shot, plane damaged)
http://airforcehistoryindex.org/data/000/494/831.xm

heh. Freud would be taking notes.

Looks like I mistyped. The original plane history doc say "George Hardin"

An unrelated thought. I was thinking about how Ckret is pursuing this case.

Ckret has been consistent in a point of view that says the FBI investigation was good, with only a small number of errors. (say on DZ etc). i.e. Ckret backs the idea that portions of the investigation were good.

My point of view is more that the errors in the investigation point to a likelihood of errors everywhere.

That gets perceived as attacking the FBI.

My point that we need a new agent is related to this. The perfect new agent would accept the theory that the displayed error rate in the FBI investigation, makes it likely that all aspects of the FBI investigation were flawed, which is my point of view.

No need to post the snowmman==maggot responses. I'll just assume that.

[snowmman 3]

Off Ebay.

container is part # 60A113E2-51

according to
http://www.alse-shop.com/marine/product.asp?pID=83&cID=260&c=19423

that's the part number of the container of a NB-8 Personnel Parachute Assembly. So the ebay listing sounds correct.
Comes in regular or oversized.

(edit) as nitro pointed out, you can see the little webbing "keepers" are black. Can see clearly in these photos.

[skyjack71 0]

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But it doesn't make sense when you think about him ordering a knapsack. A knapsack wouldn't fit in a chest container.

I think knapsack needs to be researched - my understanding is that knapsack was a COMMON expression for smokejumpers and forestry rangers. I have held on to that for a long time --- I sent emails yrs ago to different foresty and smokejumper groups - and knapsack was a common term for them, but I couldn't get any specifics. I sent so many emails and enquires and I made copies of them all - in the 1,000's of pages I have.

Knapsack was also a Scouting term.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[snowmman 3]

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Quote

But it doesn't make sense when you think about him ordering a knapsack. A knapsack wouldn't fit in a chest container.

I think knapsack needs to be researched - my understanding is that knapsack was a COMMON expression for smokejumpers and forestry rangers. I have held on to that for a long time --- I sent emails yrs ago to different foresty and smokejumper groups - and knapsack was a common term for them, but I couldn't get any specifics. I sent so many emails and enquires and I made copies of them all - in the 1,000's of pages I have.

Knapsack was also a Scouting term.

Hi Jo,
Given Cooper's age, it's likely if he had any smokejumper training it was either when they started expanding post WWII or the 50's.
The total number, according to the Smokejumpers book, that trained wasn't that high. I would think records would have been available pretty easily.

It's an interesting question if the FBI looked at all
smokejumpers trained in the late '40s-50s that met the physical description.

It's also an interesting question that if they didn't, why look at loadmasters first? (loadmasters are statistically more likely to be nefarious characters?)

(edit) It's arguable about skill levels between loadmasters and smokejumpers, when talking about jumping, I would think? smokejumpers were all static line back then? Not a lot of jumps per individual.

(edit) Historical 1937 video of smokejumpers. 377 will like the old plane.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25J2SO3Dj-E

more historical footage: (even better, has some early test jumps, it looks like..no helmets)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rePLC-7uqY

[snowmman 3]

Each of these links is the roster of McCall smokejumpers (plus another base) from '43 to '58 (later is also available, but I think this range is good)

There is detail showing the years as a smokejumper for each person, and the details of the jumps they made. (training, fire, rescue, helispot/project. Total jumps in the season. Total Career fire jumps. Total Career jumps. Position in the team.

You can see how many short-timers there might have been, and jump experience. I guess this doesn't cover Missoula? which was a big site.

The age (A) of each person, that year, is shown. The Total Career Jumps is shown for each individual also, you can see the range of experience. (CJ)

(edit) Even if this is not complete per year, (missoula missing, minimally?), it is a good sampling I think of jump experience and age for smokejumpers of the right era.

http://www.mccallsmokejumpers.org/photos/crew rosters/1943_roster.asp
http://www.mccallsmokejumpers.org/photos/crew rosters/1944_roster.asp
http://www.mccallsmokejumpers.org/photos/crew rosters/1945_roster.asp
http://www.mccallsmokejumpers.org/photos/crew rosters/1946_roster.asp
http://www.mccallsmokejumpers.org/photos/crew rosters/1947_roster.asp
http://www.mccallsmokejumpers.org/photos/crew rosters/1948_roster.asp
http://www.mccallsmokejumpers.org/photos/crew rosters/1949_roster.asp
http://www.mccallsmokejumpers.org/photos/crew rosters/1950_roster.asp
http://www.mccallsmokejumpers.org/photos/crew rosters/1951_roster.asp
http://www.mccallsmokejumpers.org/photos/crew rosters/1952_roster.asp
http://www.mccallsmokejumpers.org/photos/crew rosters/1953_roster.asp
http://www.mccallsmokejumpers.org/photos/crew rosters/1954_roster.asp
http://www.mccallsmokejumpers.org/photos/crew rosters/1955_roster.asp
http://www.mccallsmokejumpers.org/photos/crew rosters/1956_roster.asp
http://www.mccallsmokejumpers.org/photos/crew rosters/1957_roster.asp
http://www.mccallsmokejumpers.org/photos/crew rosters/1958_roster.asp

[snowmman 3]

http://www.mccallsmokejumpers.org/photos/crew%20photos/1947%20crew%20photo%201.2.jpg
http://www.mccallsmokejumpers.org/photos/crew%20photos/1949%20crew%20photo%201.2.jpg
http://www.mccallsmokejumpers.org/photos/crew%20photos/1950%20ready%20room%201.2.jpg
http://www.mccallsmokejumpers.org/photos/crew%20photos/1953%20smokejumper%20overhead%201.2.jpg
http://www.mccallsmokejumpers.org/photos/crew%20photos/1954%20jump%20refreshers%201.2.jpg
http://www.mccallsmokejumpers.org/photos/crew%20photos/1956%20crew%20photo%201.2.jpg

I've always wondered if people had this vision of smokejumpers as "manly men" who would never morph into the myth of Cooper as bumbler. Looking at the photos, and trying to guess at the people, I think helps bring reality, rather than myth to the question of "who were these people who smokejumped back then"