Recommended Posts
Sorry, but I am reposting some information from a prior post. Since it appears that some on the forum are getting bored and I fear the thread could be closed in the near future - I really need some help with these Indian burial grounds in the WA area. It is difficult to explain what I am after with this knowledge, but it could change many things.
Senario:
Cooper walked to that area from the area he landed in with or without some of the ransom. He buries part of the money and it is later retireved by him or by someone else. Perhaps the finder was the owner of the land or someone with reason to access the land. Maybe is was an accidental find. Below is my description of that area and why I want to know more about it. Knowing the past owners may explain why Duane was so entralled with it.
We spent quiet a few moments at that site. WHY? No one just goes to an out-of-the way site up a steep narrow hill and sit there then get out of the car and talk about the area like he knew if very well. The road that led to the site was not well maintained and didn't look like it had been used in a LONG time in 1979. This is the area he pointed out the power lines and mentioned the pipe line and that you used to be able to walk for miles before the undergrowth grew up.
The site below:
In my ramblings recently I got to thinking real hard about the places Duane took me to - something he said but, I need to talk to someone who REALLY knows Wa and I don't mean Jerry.
"My Baboon" talked about Indian burial mounds or something like that - could someone post pictures of Indian burial grounds in WA - not a scenic trip thing, but one that a hunter or developer came upon and didn't want to disturb - such as the one's it was pointed out that the timber industry would not tell about.
I need to see what these looked like - could they be marked with a Rock that sort of looked out of place in the area it was in? Or are these rocks just natural in a field or orchard or wooded area around the LaCames area? If an area was cleared for farm land or an orchard would they not have cleared ALL of the rock - why leave ones that are maybe 12 x 12 and larger - and they were spread out over approx one acre - looked hauntingly similar to a cementary with large trees abounding in and around them - actually a very pretty place.
I describe this place to Jerry yrs and yrs ago - only to be told it didn't exist....this is the first time I have referred to it as anything other than what may have been an old homestead (no remanents of a building) or orchard. Sort of odd that this clearing, Orchard or whatever, was at the top of this hill with a creek running down the East side of it. The perfect resting place...so peaceful.
In summary - could Cooper or Weber have been part of a crew who built pipe lines and power lines prior to 1971. When were these pipe lines and power lines built? Did the FBI ever check those work details.
These power lines ran all over and also to the area that Jerry has spoke of and all the way to the end or my map which is Beacon Rock State Pk.
In 1971 - there were three power lines running parallel.
1. one in the Fern Pairie area on to the Ireland area to Bobs Mtn.
2. one coming in below there from Fern Prairie to Pohis Hill and crossing McLoskey Creek also going to Beacon Rock.
3. another comes across belone Fern Prairie and swoops down toward Washougal coming very near Lake Lacames and then on into Skamania.
All of these above powerlines have one common denominator - a place Duane pointed out to me Green Mtn and an airport that was very near there... also called Green Mtn. When he pointed out the Airport - he mentioned what was behind it it - I didn't remember what he said - but today doing this - it was like going back in time - to that moment and what he said to me. What I am feeling right now is very queasy - and that is the only word I can come up with.
Among all of these power lines there was a pipeline. That Pipe line ran South East thru the state. The area in the Cooper quest are from Paradise State Pk to Dollar Corner thru the Scotton Corner area to the Brush Praire Area and the on down toward Camp Bonneville. As this pipe line crosses the very tip of he Camp Bonneville one of the Power Lines intersects it. This power line tracks back to the Grn Mtn. If you stay with the Pipeline you end up in Four Corners - a place near the area Jerry is searching.
Without a detailed map of the roads in 1971 - I can't tell you how a Cooper suspect ended up at an area Just North of Lake LaCamas and if he would have had to walk thru any populated areas to get there...1971 - not like it is today.
I do know the lower power lines near Lake LaCamas intersected with the middle power line at 232nd Ave around Weakley road.If you followed that power line you will cross the tributary I have mentioned for 13 yrs now....that tributary endes up near the Cottages on LaCames I have told about so many times.
This is very close to information I gave Jerry YEARS ago - the places he has been trying to get me say do not exist - the places he says do not exist and yet they exist in my memory and on maps. I have never disclose this to the public before BUT I did tell Jerry, Himmelsbach and the FBI......
Now I have told the rest of the story. I do have something to say about the FBI - did they ever investigate workers for the Pipelines and Power Lines? I have asked this before and addressed the FBI on this issue yrs ago[/red - only for it to fall on DEAF ears.
I am very tired and this post has taken a lot out of me - SOMEONE has to listen and investigate not debate me or call me a liar. I will state this - WHY is Jerry SO INSISTANT that I LIE and that these places DO NOT EXIST?[ Did he even go look?
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
We here already know how Jo changes stories and tactics to fit her agenda.
That statement is not true. I try to be truthful in everything I say and do not change the story as you put it - I try to tell what I am thinking regarding things I learn from the forum and other input - together with what I know. 13 yrs of assimilating information is a lot for someone my age - I am sure I have made lots of mistakes, but not deliberately. I do the theories and suppositions just like everyone else - that is not changing my story - after I play with an idea - and it doesn't work with what I know - I go back to what I do know.
Thinking OUT LOUD gets me in trouble, but that is what it is...and nothing more.
As for my being tired - IT has NOTHING to do with Jerry. Hopefully the post I just made about what I have tried to tell for yrs may explain a lot to you and to others. No one really looked or investigated anything I gave them.
I hold on tight to the hope that someone will find something or let go of a piece of information that will bring an end to this or the FBI will shows me what they have that PROVES Duane was not Cooper except of a tie. I provided the FBI with the story I was told about a tie in the possession of Duane Weber...but I had no verification the story was true. I believe the story I was told is true - because the tie was NOT an issue at that time. The DNA made it an issue. The FBI never addressed the story.
I am truely tired - too tired to go for milk and sodas - easier to do without them. Enjoy your baby and have a good life - teach her the value of the truth and to be respectful of others...it is a good way to live and have no regrets.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
377 22
Come back!
377
Im going to state this as clearly as I know how -
and people are free to take it for whatever its worth,
to them personally.
I am not here for social reasons, per se, to answer
just one of Snowmman's queries.
Beyond the blizzard of personal attacks, there are
now issues of substance at stake, issues we spent
months discussing. A body of core facts which Snowmman and others have chipped away at until
at this junction I am not sure we even know the
hijacking happened, and Im not being dramatic.
This goes far beyond anything Tom Kaye and his
panel is dealing with or any problems they may have encountered. We have worked for months under the
assumption a few core facts happened, eg. Cooper jumped with an NB6 chute and now that is even in question in favour of an NB8 chute,
and apparently this new information is now certified by Cossey himself! Where did that come from so late in the game?
This is the unraveling I spoke of earlier in this forum
when commenting about Snowmman's tactics, his
psychological warefare and his dysinformation campaign.
We (or at least "I") have arrived at a point where very basic facts are now in question and I for one see no good resolution in sight. This makes me question whether any discussion of DB Cooper is even possible, or what the goals of that discussion could be. It may well be this matter can be nothing more than a social ocassion and outlet for some.
Thatis not why I came here.
It is therefore necessary for me personally that
I go elsewhere to try and unravel some of these
questions of fact or to lay this matter down completely. An alternate website has been
set up just for that purpose and I am going there
if I ever decide to pursue this further.
I will come back from time to time and check to see
if anything is happening here. For me personally,
it has to be that way now.
Thanks and good luck.
[edit]: and one last point. Anyone who thinks "I think"
I am somehow necessary or vital to this debate, really is out of touch. I have always considered this a pure luxury, I can no longer afford or am willing to apply, under the current regime.
Once again Georger, please reconsider. Nobody is necessary to the debate but many are vital including you and Jerry. You of all people should know how to communicate information in the presence of noise or even intentional interference. Notch it out and keep the QSO going! No need to permanently QSY.
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
377 22
No one really looked or investigated anything I gave them.
Jo,
To prove your theory you must produce convincing unequivocal evidence.
The FBI's refusal or failure to investigate leads you provide them PROVES NOTHING.
I am convinced that Ckret REALLY wants to win the gold medal in the "detective olympics" and would follow up any lead that looked like it might be reasonably productive. I see no reason why Jerry isn't just as eager to solve one of the greatest whodunnits of the 20th century. If people knowledgeable about the case discredit or ignore you, the most likely explanation is simply that they see your leads as non productive. A coverup or deliberate efforts to suppress productive evidence is the least likely explanation, by far. This late after the crime, a coverup makes no sense at all. Even if Cooper were an FBI agent Ckret would not cover it up in my opinion. As cynical as I am about cops, the FBI has a pretty decent record in nailing their own when they commit crimes unrelated to their investigative duties.
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
Orange1 0
No one really looked or investigated anything I gave them.
Jo,
To prove your theory you must produce convincing unequivocal evidence.
The FBI's refusal or failure to investigate leads you provide them PROVES NOTHING.
I am convinced that Ckret REALLY wants to win the gold medal in the "detective olympics" and would follow up any lead that looked like it might be reasonably productive. I see no reason why Jerry isn't just as eager to solve one of the greatest whodunnits of the 20th century. If people knowledgeable about the case discredit or ignore you, the most likely explanation is simply that they see your leads as non productive. A coverup or deliberate efforts to suppress productive evidence is the least likely explanation, by far. This late after the crime, a coverup makes no sense at all. Even if Cooper were an FBI agent Ckret would not cover it up in my opinion. As cynical as I am about cops, the FBI has a pretty decent record in nailing their own when they commit crimes unrelated to their investigative duties.
377
(sigh) 377... it's a bit like talking to a child in a sulk.
we have heard how difficult it is to get the FBI to use resources to do, for example, DNA testing in the Cooper case, yet Ckret still managed to get Duane's done. I believe Ckret (and it sounds like others before him) had looked at what they thought relevant in terms of Duane as a suspect, in fact it sounded like Ckret kept looking long after he would usually have dismissed him as a subject.
What Jo really means is that no-one has managed to prove that Duane had anything to do with the hijack, in fact the opposite. But she doesn't like that outcome, so she comes up with yet another claim that has no basis in truth and decides no-one has looked at Duane as a suspect. You know, I know, everyone knows that people would love to solve this. Until someone can prove Duane did it, which most of us believe will never happen, Jo will not be happy and will keep repeating her mantra. I believe it is the only way she can justify having spent 13 years on this. It is all rather sad, really.
This is not the first time you have given a well reasoned and articulated post but it will be, yet again, file 13'd by the person it is aimed at.
I do understand Georger's irritation at the way the thread keeps getting sidetracked by stuff like this.
By the way I loved your list of why you like everyone here. The one thing it proved to me is that you are one of the few people out there to truly look for the positive in everyone! Wish that more people were like you
Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.
How do I produce evidence if NO one looks at What I have already have. The FBI never provided me with Duane's records, but have talked about him in public and with others confidentially - Why has the FBI not provided me with these records and what they may know about Duane's past - especially the yrs 1944 - 1949...and the yrs. between 1962 and 1968. If he is innocent WHAT is the BIG secret. I have asked for these records over and over and over.
Attention Orange;
I would appreciate it IF you would just one time put yourself in my shoes and have seen what I saw and heard what I heard - YOU would not be able to put it down. YOU would want the FBI to tell you things - especially when you had already caught them in lies YOU would want someone to prove to you that they had REALLY investigated your father or whoever .
That is what I want - proof they did investigate Duane's past. To see the interviews they have of the people who knew him as John Collins...DID they even try to contact them? T.G. and T.W. were still alive at that time. DID they actually contact them or make any attempt to do so? I told them the last known area for both.
DID they actually interview several employers - especially the one who went back to Chicago? ALL the FBI ever did was a cursory background check and contacted the ex-wife -. She told me things and the daughter told me things - was this family just playing a big JOKE on me? NOT one time has the FBI given me anything that would explain DUANE's knowing WA the way he knew it - they even denied until 2000 that he was in McNeil. Then Duane seemed to get lost until 1949? Duane Weber ceased existing until 1949 - that is a 4 yrs period of time - did he go into the service under another man's ID or where was he working - the SS records should show that - but the FBI told me NOTHING and I have asked.
How do I find Tina and talk to her before she too is gone - is her memory still intact? Does she remember missing something and just thinking the FBI took it for evidence? I desperately need to talk to her in person - and face to face. That one thing could help me to put this down - and until I see here face to face - I cannot let go of this. I cannot let go until the FBI provides me with Data on the missing yrs and his SS records for John Collins and Duane Weber.
Also to find out if the SS records of a certain individual show dual incomes at the same time separated by several states.
Attention Orange;
I would appreciate it IF you would just one time put yourself in my shoes and have seen what I saw and heard what I heard - YOU would not be able to put it down. YOU would want the FBI to tell you things - especially when you had already caught them in lies YOU would want someone to prove to you that they had REALLY investigated your father or whoever .
That is what I want - proof they did investigate Duane's past. To see the interviews they have of the people who knew him as John Collins...DID they even try to contact them? T.G. and T.W. were still alive at that time. DID they actually contact them or make any attempt to do so? I told them the last known area for both.
DID they actually interview several employers - especially the one who went back to Chicago? ALL the FBI ever did was a cursory background check and contacted the ex-wife -. She told me things and the daughter told me things - was this family just playing a big JOKE on me? NOT one time has the FBI given me anything that would explain DUANE's knowing WA the way he knew it - they even denied until 2000 that he was in McNeil. Then Duane seemed to get lost until 1949? Duane Weber ceased existing until 1949 - that is a 4 yrs period of time - did he go into the service under another man's ID or where was he working - the SS records should show that - but the FBI told me NOTHING and I have asked.
How do I find Tina and talk to her before she too is gone - is her memory still intact? Does she remember missing something and just thinking the FBI took it for evidence? I desperately need to talk to her in person - and face to face. That one thing could help me to put this down - and until I see here face to face - I cannot let go of this. I cannot let go until the FBI provides me with Data on the missing yrs and his SS records for John Collins and Duane Weber.
Also to find out if the SS records of a certain individual show dual incomes at the same time separated by several states.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
.Of course we here already know how Jo changes stories and tactics to fit her agenda
I change my story - i don't think so. I wrote this 8 yrs ago.
======================
The Washington/Oregon Trip
We were living in Colorado in 1978-1980. He worked for a company with a home office in Seattle. We were going out there on business and he said he wanted to go a day or so early because he wanted to take a side trip. I did ask how he knew the area so well --- but I do not remember the answer. He mentioned a scout camp, a prison, a story about prisoners escaping, named several of the more remote places by name -- not common and mentioned the many Indian names of areas and how remote some of the area was. He told me at a certain point that there was a tower over to our left and a cabin directly in front of us across the water and to our right would have been an old mill or mill encampment. All of this was across the water and later when we left the area he turned me around and as we crossed a small stream said that was were Cooper walked out of the woods.
I asked how he could know that and he replied that maybe he was the one on the ground. I took it as kidding and knowing little about Cooper or the story did not regard it as anymore than kidding. On our return trip home he said he had one more stop to make. This was in Vancouver --- this is were he told me to stay in the car and he walked down to the river --- the path he took he quickly descended out of sight. It was early morning and we had partied the night before so I fell asleep and do not know how much time really went by. He did open the trunk before he left. I did get restless and just as he came back up the path I asked if I could get out. He said sure as he opened the trunk again --- I did not see nor ask what he was doing. When we stood on the bank high above the river he pointed to an area and told me that he used to know a man who lived there and then the point to another area and told me that was the airport --- I did not know it was the airport that Cooper departed from. He said something else about the river west of us but I do not remember what he said. After 23yrs and the help from a local resident, I found this area on the Columbia. The area was East of
where the money was found. Thus if he did indeed dig it up or attempt to dig it up and found it useless it would have drifted to the point that the $5800 was found several months later. Later when the money was found and it was in the paper - he said "I know-it was useless" I asked him how he knew that because he had not yet seen the paper. He never answered. I learned early on never to ask to many questions and he had a way of just changing the subject. Also as my daughter put it. "Mother, you were clueless" Note that I was also voted "Most likely to get Lost in a Crowd" my senior year in school. I was the PERFECT wife for a good con man who led a double life and with a past he needed to keep secret. I also asked little about his past because we had a relative good life.
======================
I believe I wrote this in 2001 after my trip to WA. I was not specific on the places because I didn't have the maps then. I just told the driver what the Angel Udell had told me - the woman truck driver who befriended me in Portland the morning of my trip out with the 3 ladies and a family member who worked in law enforcement. He was our driver and guide and the ladies were related to him.
I still do not know who sent me those black and white copied maps - I thought it was W.Walker (sluggo) but he said he didn't send them. Somewhere in my files I have the envelope they came in - and one day I wlll get to thank that person.
AND so you see my story has not changed - I have only added the places and specifics. I did make a minor correction in this I had said West when I meant East referencing where the money was found.
This was one of my first accountings of the trip - and I was not as in detailed as I am today - because I only had my memory of the places. Also the computer was a very NEW thing to me.
I hope this explains that MY story has NOT changed...just more details and more facts over all of these yrs.
Jerry Thomas told me those places didn't exist before and recently, BUT they do exist and not just in my memory.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
377 22
Hey Orange,
Anyone still here but me you Snow and Jo?
Roll call: 377 present
377
Anyone still here but me you Snow and Jo?
Roll call: 377 present
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
Hey Orange,
Anyone still here but me you Snow and Jo?
Roll call: 377 present
377
I's here, too. I stop by at least once a day. I was quite surprised to see that no one posted for what appears to be a 23-hour period yeterday.
Bruce
377 22
I think its impt to keep this forum going because it gets read by skydivers, including many who never post. I know something about the old gear Cooper jumped but not nearly as much as some of the other jumpers and riggers on dropzone.com. We have learned some impt things from all those guys including first hand confirmation that individual exiting jumpers could be seen on ATC scopes 60 miles away with 1971 ATC radar technology. We also proved here, through an aviation history professor who I located, that 727 jumps were made in SE Asia prior to NORJACK, although I have to give Jo full credit for first making the claim. Orange (a jumper) has found absolutely intriguing links between US smokejumpers and covert CIA/Air America air missions in SE Asia prior to NORJACK. Jumpers may be crucial to solving the DBC mystery and that's why I want to keep this forum active even if it is ridiculed. Every once in a while, even those who scoff at this forum pop in with something very relevant that non jumpers might miss.
377
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
snowmman 3
I've been tapped by the Obama team for keeping track of stimulus payments around Cooper media. Been told that more jumpers need to be hired. Luckily negotiated the bonus package beforehand.
Asobi Productions is filming a Cooper documentary.
This is a different production company than the one I named that's doing the one for National Geographic. Maybe they're doing some work for them, or it's a different film.
Details of their filming on 2/21/09 and 2/28/09 are here:
(at Mojave Airport for 727-on-ground filming..don't know if/where the jump was filmed. Anyone?)
Some pics at the link. I attached the pic of supposedly a "professional" skydiver.
"We filmed a professional skydiver dressed like Cooper simulating the jump. No one knows if he made it or not so we assume he either died jumping, or landed safely and got away. Our skydiver landed just fine. Here he's fitted with a fake 70's era parachute, while on his back he's got a modern one that actually works."
http://blog.asobiproductions.com/2009/03/02/db-cooper-shoot-22109.aspx
http://blog.asobiproductions.com/2009/03/09/db-cooper-shoot-22809.aspx
In the attached photo, showing "Cooper" with modern back rig and old front reserve. Notice how wrong the age/glasses/hair are, although jumping with raincoat? Interesting he's not worried about the collar flaps? Did he really jump? Note the raincoat is thigh length. Probably not a jet jump?
What's up with the young guy? No old jumpers out there with balls?
What's intriguing is the guy on the Left. Wearing a little belt pack that says "FBI" and "FENE" Odd. Be funny if there was an FBI guy actually on the set during filming. Probably not.
They show a pic of their aftstair jump depiction. It's the classic "briefcase in hand" shot, amidst fog. The stairs stay down nicely when the plane's on the ground.
They may be leaving out all the sex-related stuff re Cooper. Don't know.
(edit) Since Asobi Productions apparently was involved in authoring Phil Day's website, and Phil Day is doing the National Geographic documentary, it's probably part of the same deal. Note the Barb Dayton fan club was filmed a while back, so they may be one of the three Cooper PR clubs that are mentioned/included.
(edit) Throwing some change to Dave Vescio to play Ckret (or whatever other SA-of-the-year it is). Dave has signed on.
http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.ListAll&friendId=179562149
"I booked a "supporting role" in a National Geographic TV show called "The Legend of D.B. Cooper"; it was directed by Philip Day .... And I got to play the main FBI Agent who is trying to capture the airplane hijacker known as D.B. Cooper."
..posted from The Griddle Cafe.
Asobi Productions is filming a Cooper documentary.
This is a different production company than the one I named that's doing the one for National Geographic. Maybe they're doing some work for them, or it's a different film.
Details of their filming on 2/21/09 and 2/28/09 are here:
(at Mojave Airport for 727-on-ground filming..don't know if/where the jump was filmed. Anyone?)
Some pics at the link. I attached the pic of supposedly a "professional" skydiver.
"We filmed a professional skydiver dressed like Cooper simulating the jump. No one knows if he made it or not so we assume he either died jumping, or landed safely and got away. Our skydiver landed just fine. Here he's fitted with a fake 70's era parachute, while on his back he's got a modern one that actually works."
http://blog.asobiproductions.com/2009/03/02/db-cooper-shoot-22109.aspx
http://blog.asobiproductions.com/2009/03/09/db-cooper-shoot-22809.aspx
In the attached photo, showing "Cooper" with modern back rig and old front reserve. Notice how wrong the age/glasses/hair are, although jumping with raincoat? Interesting he's not worried about the collar flaps? Did he really jump? Note the raincoat is thigh length. Probably not a jet jump?
What's up with the young guy? No old jumpers out there with balls?
What's intriguing is the guy on the Left. Wearing a little belt pack that says "FBI" and "FENE" Odd. Be funny if there was an FBI guy actually on the set during filming. Probably not.
They show a pic of their aftstair jump depiction. It's the classic "briefcase in hand" shot, amidst fog. The stairs stay down nicely when the plane's on the ground.
They may be leaving out all the sex-related stuff re Cooper. Don't know.
(edit) Since Asobi Productions apparently was involved in authoring Phil Day's website, and Phil Day is doing the National Geographic documentary, it's probably part of the same deal. Note the Barb Dayton fan club was filmed a while back, so they may be one of the three Cooper PR clubs that are mentioned/included.
(edit) Throwing some change to Dave Vescio to play Ckret (or whatever other SA-of-the-year it is). Dave has signed on.
http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.ListAll&friendId=179562149
"I booked a "supporting role" in a National Geographic TV show called "The Legend of D.B. Cooper"; it was directed by Philip Day .... And I got to play the main FBI Agent who is trying to capture the airplane hijacker known as D.B. Cooper."
..posted from The Griddle Cafe.
georger 258
I think you should continue ... its a social outlet for you and I know you miss it. Good luck withI think its impt to keep this forum going
Reply: I think this forum is a social outlet for you.
We have learned some impt things from all those guys including first hand confirmation that individual exiting jumpers could be seen on ATC scopes 60 miles away with 1971 ATC radar technology.
Re-ply: Utter nonsense. Did not happen. Your experts
whoever (they are?) were not there! you just dont pay attention here.
We also proved here, through an aviation history professor who I located, that 727 jumps were made in SE Asia prior to NORJACK, although I have to give Jo full credit for first making the claim.
Reply: More utter nonsense. This was known 30+
years ago. Jo Weber has nothing to do with it (thats
laughable). Again 377, you seem to have blind spot and do not pay attention - or you are focused on
Jo Weber and Sno Weber?
Orange (a jumper) has found absolutely intriguing links between US smokejumpers and covert CIA/Air America air missions in SE Asia prior to NORJACK.
Reply: Which probably has nothing to do with
anything and Orange never claimed it did.
Jumpers may be crucial to solving the DBC mystery and that's why I want to keep this forum active even if it is ridiculed. Every once in a while, even those who scoff at this forum pop in with something very relevant that non jumpers might miss.
377
the addiction.
georger 258
although I have to give Jo full credit for first making the claim.
377
377
Here is another tidbit you missed - the Salt Lake City
Mormon connection for Jo/s photo of nobody she posted here ...
Here is Jo's post on the matter in 2005 at the Piedmont Forum where Jo was trying to pry info out of another woman who was about to compete with Jo in claiming her relative was DB Cooper. Jo was very
explicit at Piedmont Forum - Jo was not as explicit here, and left us to wander around for weeks trying to figure out her puzzle.; Here is what said on Piedmont:
Re: The D.B. Cooper Airplane
Posted by: Jo Weber (---.ipt.aol.com)
Date: August 04, 2005 02:03AM
"Shawn Demonica --- I am the woman whose husband confessed to being Cooper 11 days before he died. His history and background tend to support this. I have done 10 yrs. of research on him and the Skyjacking and can answer most questions you might have, but prefer to do so thru private email. If your mother had a story to tell about your father then if she is still living I need to talk to her. How old are you? I am still looking for his daughter --- Zona is all I know. Her mothers name is Edna and I believe they were Mormons."
Good luck 377. Im sure you will figure it out here
someday -
377 22
Of course this is a social outlet for me. I am not a professional investigator. This is entertainment with some minor utility thrown in if we can find some relevant evidence. Mia culpa.
So Georger, this is what, the third or fourth time you have left and come back? So who has the addiction here? You have left rehab three times and have come back to the hood every time to score. As a fellow DBC junkie who admits the addiction I welcome your return, really.
Geoger, surely you didnt think I was saying COOPER was seen on ATC radar did you? That radar stuff referring to individual exiting jumpers (plural) IS real. Ignore it if you wish but it happened and quite regularly. ATC controllers would even give the jump pilots accurate counts on how many jumpers had exited. Ask Guru and Airtwardo.
I personally spoke with several Air National Guard ATC guys who worked jumpships and they said exactly the same thing. I worked at the leading company in high performance military radar in the early 80s. I know what it can and cannot detect. Jumpers are a piece of cake compared to birds and birds are easy targets. I worked with the guy who literally wrote the book on radar fundamentals for tracking airborne targets.
Georger, rediscovered lost knowledge is not garbage. OF COURSE the 727 jumps were known years ago. They were made and people knew about them. Nobody here knew anything other than rumors about them and the FBI apparently didnt know anything either. Jo didnt do anything spectacular and neither did I but your attack on the rediscovery of the CIA/Air America 727 jumps is puzzling.
You are guessing when you dismiss the relevance of the smoke jumper CIA SE Asia air ops links. You are probably right but you can't be certain. I think Cooper may have known for sure he could jump a 727 and the only way he could know this is from some knowledge of prior jumps. Boeing? Air America? Smoke jumper? Who knows, but why attack the research? We are not claiming a James Earl Ray or MLK JFK RFK Frank Sinatra UFO link.
It isn't so hard to be nice Georger, especially to those who treat you cordially and respecfully like I do. I can't reform Snow, he has no more injectable veins for the potion, but I still hold out hope for you.
73
377
So Georger, this is what, the third or fourth time you have left and come back? So who has the addiction here? You have left rehab three times and have come back to the hood every time to score. As a fellow DBC junkie who admits the addiction I welcome your return, really.
377: We have learned some impt things from all those guys including first hand confirmation that individual exiting jumpers could be seen on ATC scopes 60 miles away with 1971 ATC radar technology.
Georger: Re-ply: Utter nonsense. Did not happen. Your experts
whoever (they are?) were not there! you just dont pay attention here.
Geoger, surely you didnt think I was saying COOPER was seen on ATC radar did you? That radar stuff referring to individual exiting jumpers (plural) IS real. Ignore it if you wish but it happened and quite regularly. ATC controllers would even give the jump pilots accurate counts on how many jumpers had exited. Ask Guru and Airtwardo.
I personally spoke with several Air National Guard ATC guys who worked jumpships and they said exactly the same thing. I worked at the leading company in high performance military radar in the early 80s. I know what it can and cannot detect. Jumpers are a piece of cake compared to birds and birds are easy targets. I worked with the guy who literally wrote the book on radar fundamentals for tracking airborne targets.
Georger, rediscovered lost knowledge is not garbage. OF COURSE the 727 jumps were known years ago. They were made and people knew about them. Nobody here knew anything other than rumors about them and the FBI apparently didnt know anything either. Jo didnt do anything spectacular and neither did I but your attack on the rediscovery of the CIA/Air America 727 jumps is puzzling.
You are guessing when you dismiss the relevance of the smoke jumper CIA SE Asia air ops links. You are probably right but you can't be certain. I think Cooper may have known for sure he could jump a 727 and the only way he could know this is from some knowledge of prior jumps. Boeing? Air America? Smoke jumper? Who knows, but why attack the research? We are not claiming a James Earl Ray or MLK JFK RFK Frank Sinatra UFO link.
It isn't so hard to be nice Georger, especially to those who treat you cordially and respecfully like I do. I can't reform Snow, he has no more injectable veins for the potion, but I still hold out hope for you.
73
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
snowmman 3
Intriguing that the profile targets loadmaster. There must be evidence or theories around that.
http://blog.seattletimes.nwsource.com/crime/2009/03/17/was_db_cooper_a_french-canadia.html
March 17, 2009 12:05 PM
Was D.B. Cooper a French-Canadian comic book hero?
Posted by John de Leon
Special Agent Larry Carr of the Seattle office of the FBI has developed some interesting theories in the case of the iconic skyjacker known as D.B. Cooper. Carr, who took over the case two years ago, believes it's possible Cooper took his name from the French-Canadian comic book character Dan Cooper. Carr says that's important because the books were never translated into English, and could mean he spent time overseas. This fits with Carr's theory that Cooper had been in the Air Force.
Carr has developed this profile of Cooper:
-- He served in the Air Force and at some point was stationed in Europe, where he may have become interested in the Dan Cooper comic books.
-- He worked as a cargo loader on planes, giving him knowledge and experience in the aviation industry, which was in its infancy in 1971.
-- Because his job required him to throw cargo out of planes, Cooper would have worn an emergency parachute in case he fell out. This would have provided him with working knowledge of parachutes but not necessarily the functional knowledge to survive the jump he made.
-- He may have come from the East Coast, but taken an aviation job in Seattle when he got out of the military. It's possible he lost his job during an economic downturn in the aviation industry in 1970-71. If he was a loner with little or no family, "nobody would have missed him" after he was gone.
To read more about the latest developments in the case, and to view a video, click http://www.fbi.gov/page2/march09/dbcooper031709.html
http://blog.seattletimes.nwsource.com/crime/2009/03/17/was_db_cooper_a_french-canadia.html
March 17, 2009 12:05 PM
Was D.B. Cooper a French-Canadian comic book hero?
Posted by John de Leon
Special Agent Larry Carr of the Seattle office of the FBI has developed some interesting theories in the case of the iconic skyjacker known as D.B. Cooper. Carr, who took over the case two years ago, believes it's possible Cooper took his name from the French-Canadian comic book character Dan Cooper. Carr says that's important because the books were never translated into English, and could mean he spent time overseas. This fits with Carr's theory that Cooper had been in the Air Force.
Carr has developed this profile of Cooper:
-- He served in the Air Force and at some point was stationed in Europe, where he may have become interested in the Dan Cooper comic books.
-- He worked as a cargo loader on planes, giving him knowledge and experience in the aviation industry, which was in its infancy in 1971.
-- Because his job required him to throw cargo out of planes, Cooper would have worn an emergency parachute in case he fell out. This would have provided him with working knowledge of parachutes but not necessarily the functional knowledge to survive the jump he made.
-- He may have come from the East Coast, but taken an aviation job in Seattle when he got out of the military. It's possible he lost his job during an economic downturn in the aviation industry in 1970-71. If he was a loner with little or no family, "nobody would have missed him" after he was gone.
To read more about the latest developments in the case, and to view a video, click http://www.fbi.gov/page2/march09/dbcooper031709.html
snowmman 3
snowmman 3
There is a myth that someone in the midwest staged a paintball rally where 1000 paintballers painted his house in 30 minutes, only using paintballs.
The myth did not say whether it was a trailer, stucco, wood siding, or T-111.
I initially suspected H&K MP5 replicas, but research quickly showed that it would be low probability to have that many MP5 marker guns assembled in any one area at one time.
http://www.extremesportsandhobbies.com/mp5.html
I've tracked down the source of this myth to the 2003 Oklahoma D-Day paintball event, attended by approx. 4000 players.
Evidently the General of the Allied Forces, who lead the charge on Omaha Beach (from the landing craft) was concerned that the force of 1000 simultaneous paintball hits might knock him over and injure him.
To prevent injury the General used carpet behind his back, in case of such a blow back.
I've attached a picture of the initial charge off the landing craft.
Hopefully, I've put this myth to bed, with this evidence.
The myth did not say whether it was a trailer, stucco, wood siding, or T-111.
I initially suspected H&K MP5 replicas, but research quickly showed that it would be low probability to have that many MP5 marker guns assembled in any one area at one time.
http://www.extremesportsandhobbies.com/mp5.html
I've tracked down the source of this myth to the 2003 Oklahoma D-Day paintball event, attended by approx. 4000 players.
Evidently the General of the Allied Forces, who lead the charge on Omaha Beach (from the landing craft) was concerned that the force of 1000 simultaneous paintball hits might knock him over and injure him.
To prevent injury the General used carpet behind his back, in case of such a blow back.
I've attached a picture of the initial charge off the landing craft.
Hopefully, I've put this myth to bed, with this evidence.
snowmman 3
From the FBI site
Kay said "he wants to figure out if pollen found on a tie Cooper left behind on the plane came from a specific region of the country."
Independent of "where", it's interesting that pollen would be on a tie worn in November.
(edit) Tie's aren't washed often. It might mean nothing.
How long do detectable pollen remnants stay on polyester ties? Apparently 37 years. (or more?)
So pollen could have been embedded at any point. From manufacture to 11/24/71 use.
Interesting though. Why is it not considered a contaminant?
Kay said "he wants to figure out if pollen found on a tie Cooper left behind on the plane came from a specific region of the country."
Independent of "where", it's interesting that pollen would be on a tie worn in November.
(edit) Tie's aren't washed often. It might mean nothing.
How long do detectable pollen remnants stay on polyester ties? Apparently 37 years. (or more?)
So pollen could have been embedded at any point. From manufacture to 11/24/71 use.
Interesting though. Why is it not considered a contaminant?
1969912 0
Intriguing that the profile targets loadmaster. There must be evidence or theories around that.
http://blog.seattletimes.nwsource.com/crime/2009/03/17/was_db_cooper_a_french-canadia.html
March 17, 2009 12:05 PM
Was D.B. Cooper a French-Canadian comic book hero?
Posted by John de Leon
Special Agent Larry Carr of the Seattle office of the FBI has developed some interesting theories in the case of the iconic skyjacker known as D.B. Cooper. Carr, who took over the case two years ago, believes it's possible Cooper took his name from the French-Canadian comic book character Dan Cooper. Carr says that's important because the books were never translated into English, and could mean he spent time overseas. This fits with Carr's theory that Cooper had been in the Air Force.
Carr has developed this profile of Cooper:
-- He served in the Air Force and at some point was stationed in Europe, where he may have become interested in the Dan Cooper comic books.
-- He worked as a cargo loader on planes, giving him knowledge and experience in the aviation industry, which was in its infancy in 1971.
-- Because his job required him to throw cargo out of planes, Cooper would have worn an emergency parachute in case he fell out. This would have provided him with working knowledge of parachutes but not necessarily the functional knowledge to survive the jump he made.
-- He may have come from the East Coast, but taken an aviation job in Seattle when he got out of the military. It's possible he lost his job during an economic downturn in the aviation industry in 1970-71. If he was a loner with little or no family, "nobody would have missed him" after he was gone.
To read more about the latest developments in the case, and to view a video, click here.
Wow.
And this thread is worthless
"Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ."
-NickDG
snowmman 3
FBI apparently thinks indeterminism around Cooper's landing zone is related to flight path data. That would be interesting if true.
from the FBI site
"Using technology unavailable in 1971, such as satellite maps and GPS, Kaye hopes to pinpoint exactly where Ingram found the money nearly three decades ago. He plans to retrace the plane’s flight plan to determine more exact coordinates for Cooper’s landing zone."
from the FBI site
"Using technology unavailable in 1971, such as satellite maps and GPS, Kaye hopes to pinpoint exactly where Ingram found the money nearly three decades ago. He plans to retrace the plane’s flight plan to determine more exact coordinates for Cooper’s landing zone."
georger 258
From the FBI site
Kay said "he wants to figure out if pollen found on a tie Cooper left behind on the plane came from a specific region of the country."
Independent of "where", it's interesting that pollen would be on a tie worn in November.
(edit) Tie's aren't washed often. It might mean nothing.
How long do detectable pollen remnants stay on polyester ties? Apparently 37 years. (or more?)
So pollen could have been embedded at any point. From manufacture to 11/24/71 use.
Interesting though. Why is it not considered a contaminant?
It may be a contaminant. People arent nearly as
stupid as you need them to be to fulfill your
narcissism.
snowmman 3
Hi georger,
it's interesting how I can make you post.
I have no theories on that.
it's interesting how I can make you post.
I have no theories on that.
Here is Jo's post on the matter in 2005 at the Piedmont Forum where Jo was trying to pry info out of another woman who was about to compete with Jo in claiming her relative was DB Cooper. Jo was very
explicit at Piedmont Forum - Jo was not as explicit here, and left us to wander around for weeks trying to figure out her puzzle.; Here is what said on Piedmont:
Re: The D.B. Cooper Airplane
Posted by: Jo Weber (---.ipt.aol.com)
Date: August 04, 2005 02:03AM
My Reply to Shawns request:
"Shawn Demonica --- I am the woman whose husband confessed to being Cooper 11 days before he died. His history and background tend to support this. I have done 10 yrs. of research on him and the Skyjacking and can answer most questions you might have, but prefer to do so thru private email. If your mother had a story to tell about your father then if she is still living I need to talk to her. How old are you? I am still looking for his daughter --- Zona is all I know. Her mothers name is Edna and I believe they were Mormons."
-
I did talk to Shawn on 2 occassions and he was trying to find his FATHER who his mother thought was Cooper (If I remember rightly the man told the mother his name was Cooper) and also his father.
I don't remember the specifics but Shawn was too young to have been Duane's son. His mother never talked to me, but supposedly relayed information thru Shawn. We found NO correlation between the man she was with and Duane Weber or Cooper. None of the information matched enough with what was known about Cooper or Duane to proceed any further.
I did inform the FBI of this encounter although brief on my part. I saw no reason to go any further with the information I was provided.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
I have even tried to open a pic sent to me from else where that came to the site - NO go.
His story on WEBER is full of errors and I haven't done anything about it, but they DO need to be corrected. If his site is so factual then the information on Weber should be corrected. Since I do not go there - and cannot open his pictures - I have just let it go.
Share this post
Link to post
Share on other sites