DB Cooper

[JerryThomas 0]

Jo go to bed and relax.

[snowmman 3]

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Jo go to bed and relax.

Jerry: your wife is in the other room, you're beating the wrong one.

[JerryThomas 0]

Is that your imigination working for you again or just your IQ thinking up a new story. Jo you can't win so why continue. You have scared alot of people in the past with your stories and your false claims so please and for the last time give it up or I will see you in court.

[snowmman 3]

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Is that your imigination working for you again or just your IQ thinking up a new story. Jo you can't win so why continue. You have scared alot of people in the past with your stories and your false claims so please and for the last time give it up or I will see you in court.

Hi Jerry,
I wasn't sure if this was a question for me. If you address it as "Snowmman" it will be more clear.

I really doubt Jo could scare anyone.

Are we in court already? I love threats. Bring it on.
Quade: are threats of court issues personal attacks? I'm not clear. We need a decision. Wait, would that be a court thing?
I'm confused.

I've said it before, but I'll bring it to a point this time.
Hooper was right about everything about this thread (myself included)
He wouldn't deign to even spit on me, but his opinion is hard to refute.

[JerryThomas 0]

Jo has continually harrased everyone involved in this case she has built her stories to fit any situation that may sound good to others she has atacked not only Shelly and I But continues to atack the agencies and others that has tried to help her. I have recieved many phone calls from her and she does make comments that are inapropriate to the facts in question.She has made so many comments towards people involved in this case that is harming to there personality and there jobs. her comments are all based on lies she has dreamed up. I Have all the documintation and phone call records to prove it. She Knoes this. I only want her to stop her games and go on with her life. I've been telling her this for years. It has now gotten to the point with her verbal atacks on people I know. that is is time I either get her to agree to stop what she is doing or take her to court and prove to all that she has done nothing but create problems and purger herself .Jo knows that I have all the documation to do this.

[JerryThomas 0]

Snowwman you I will not be threaten.how ever I will invite you to shellys and I wedding aneverseary party in July.

[Orange1 0]

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Thanks Sluggo.

What got me thinking about scholarly journals, is how the FBI has their own journal for real forensic scientists. I was reading some of it. It's great.

I was really wondering how they would perceive Tom's work. I mean, an amateur, poaching on their territory? I mean they do real forensics.

Snow, that was a really interesting link you posted on the forensics journal. Like you say, they do real forensics. Never mind Tom, I wonder what they think of assorted whackos on the internet impugning their forensic expertise. Ckret said, it is not easy getting them to do DNA tests for the DBC case because it is so old & cold... so i imagine, for example, they wouldn't have wasted precious resources on comparing Weber's DNA to that on the tie if they thought the outcome would be inconclusive. I'm guessing they know enough about forensics to think that Cooper's DNA is among the other samples on that tie. Ckret said something once that implied you could get a false positive (from a partial strand IIRC) but not a false negative.

In other words Snow, you have just convinced me that the DNA evidence against Duane being Cooper is absolutely solid, despite people with no knowledge of forensics beyond what they see in CSI (oh sorry some people don't even watch TV) trying to invalidate it.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

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[Orange1 0]

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the case was filed in court under John Doe leaving the case opened with out a staute of limitations so yes the case can still be proscuted.

Jerry are you saying that because the case was opened the statute of limitations doesn't apply? (Sorry my knowledge of the US legal system, other than that it is a huge industry, is not very good)

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[Orange1 0]

here is a site for all you armchair forensic scientists:
http://www.dna.gov/basics/

Not only is it an "official" site, but it also offers that you can "Take a free online training course and learn about how DNA, analyzed in the laboratory and used in a courtroom.". http://www.dna.gov/training/

From the intro page:
About Forensic DNA
DNA collection and analysis gives the criminal justice field a powerful tool for convicting the guilty and exonerating the innocent. About Forensic DNA provides general information on a wide range of topics.

Basics of DNA Typing
Only one-tenth of a single percent of DNA (about 3 million bases) differs from one person to the next. Scientists can use these variable regions to generate a DNA profile of an individual, using samples from blood, bone, hair, and other body tissues and products.

In criminal cases, this generally involves obtaining samples from crime-scene evidence and a suspect, extracting the DNA, and analyzing it for the presence of a set of specific DNA regions (markers).

If the sample profiles don't match, the person did not contribute the DNA at the crime scene.

If the patterns match, the suspect may have contributed the evidence sample. (Orange note: note the "may".)

DNA from crime scenes also can be compared to profiles stored in a database. See Forensic DNA Databases for more details.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[377 22]

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Snowwman you I will not be threaten.how ever I will invite you to shellys and I wedding aneverseary party in July.

Jerry,

You really know how to fight fire with sugar. No wonder you have stayed married so long!

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[snowmman 3]

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Snowwman you I will not be threaten.how ever I will invite you to shellys and I wedding aneverseary party in July.

Jerry,

You really know how to fight fire with sugar. No wonder you have stayed married so long!

377

We all know Jo by now. She's not going to change.
Every bar fight needs two people. Whoever she's harassing can just hang up the phone. The thing is, people like to tango with her. Gets their juices up.

I actually like seeing how Jo has toned down in the last couple months. I think she's sat back and taken a long view on all this stuff. We should support that. It's good for her. And would speak well of us.

Does Jo provoke people? Sure if they let her.
Does she worry about court cases. Yes. Jerry's not the first to throw this b.s. about "court" at her.

Saying stuff like "court" is really just veiled abuse, when used against people that might be afraid of it for some reason.

It's like if I start talking about guns. What if I say guns, guns, guns, guns. Does that mean anything? No. It's just verbal abuse, because I know it will create an emotional response.

On an open web forum, we all get to decide how we act.
If Jerry attacks Jo, I will attack Jerry.

Pretty simple.

[377 22]

Can this truly be? We now have Snow in a defense pact with Jo? Soon I will awake from this dream. Jo, get it in writing quickly, before Snow comes to his senses.

Jo has toned down. Not certain if I can pinpoint the cause. It does coincide with Jerry and Shelly's warnings, but who knows?

"Court" here is like "nuke" iwth Iran or N Korea. Often threatened, never launched. It does scare people though. Everyone knows Snow won't use a gun, but the threat of "court" seems plausible.

Real court is so different from TV court. The litigants in real court too often become the indentured slaves of the greedy lawyers. Twenty page motions pulled right out of law library CDs somehow end up costing five figures. It is beyond absurd. TV court is better. There the good guy always wins. In real court the lawyers always win, both $ide$.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[snowmman 3]

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Can this truly be? We now have Snow in a defense pact with Jo? Soon I will awake from this dream. Jo, get it in writing quickly, before Snow comes to his senses.

Jo has toned down. Not certain if I can pinpoint the cause. It does coincide with Jerry and Shelly's warnings, but who knows?

"Court" here is like "nuke" iwth Iran or N Korea. Often threatened, never launched. It does scare people though. Everyone knows Snow won't use a gun, but the threat of "court" seems plausible.

Real court is so different from TV court. The litigants in real court too often become the indentured slaves of the greedy lawyers. Twenty page motions pulled right out of law library CDs somehow end up costing five figures. It is beyond absurd. TV court is better. There the good guy always wins. In real court the lawyers always win, both $ide$.

377

Agreed.
And note that I don't own guns. Never have.
Jerry does. Sluggo does.
I can joke about Halo 3 and it means something funny to me.
But America is a sick country. And there are people with real guns. So I have to think about how anything I say affects others, not just what it means in my head.
Complicated.

(edit) To bring this back to Cooper, I noted way back when, that I thought it was pretty unique of Cooper, compared to many of the hijackers, to not bring a gun. Himmelsbach has thrown out this "career criminal" profile, but I would think that profile would have brought a weapon. We couldn't come up with anything interesting last time we explored this, though.

[377 22]

Interesting about Coopers choice not to bring a gun. Once on the ground he couldn't coerce anyone with a "bomb" as it was long gone. A gun would have been useful on the ground, but he didnt bring one (we think, he could have kept one concealed).

Bruce, what 's your psych take on the lack of a gun?
Most hijackers carried guns.

Once on the ground, without a gun, Cooper had to reort to social means to get assistance. That isnt easy. Who is going to pick up a wet muddy stranger on a rural road on a dark rainy night? maybe someone would thinking he had been in an accident.

One thing that argues for his death is that we have nobody coming forward to say they assisted Cooper that night. How likely was it that he could have made a rural parachute jump at night in the rain and got back to civilization without assistance? I think it highlky unlikely that he succeeded in any prearranged meeting with an accomplice that night.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[snowmman 3]

It's a puzzlement.
McCoy got his ride without coercing with a weapon. Remember he talked the kid into it.
Later when he broke out of prison with his buddy, there was a similar issue with getting a car, I forget how they did it, they were a little more forceful about taking it from some folks, if I remember.

In any case, I really wish there was evidence about the jump point that proved Cooper had to jump before the Columbia. That would make this "Cooper lives" hypothesis pretty solid, I think.

As long as Cooper "could have" landed in the Columbia, then maybe Cooper died. If he didn't, then I think the data says he lived. (any scenarios with others moving the money off a dead Cooper sound implausible)

[377 22]

I guess the kid that gave McCoy a ride didnt come forward during the time the crime remained unsolved. Maybe the kid never made any connection between the guy he picked up and the hijack.

I wonder if we can overlay that McCoy scene on Cooper's jump? Could someone have picked him up that night and remained unaware that they had given a ride to DB Cooper?

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[snowmman 3]

377 said:
"I wonder if we can overlay that McCoy scene on Cooper's jump? Could someone have picked him up that night and remained unaware that they had given a ride to DB Cooper?"

That's why I thought it was funny they circulated a sketch with the tie, when they know that Cooper didn't have a tie when he landed on the ground.

The image people have of Cooper is a guy with black sunglasses and a tie.

On the ground, he had neither. (night: no dark glasses)

(edit) In fact, if the stuff about Tina seeing him take off the tie and loosen his collar is correct, then on the ground Cooper would have had an open collar.

[377 22]

That's a really good point. I hadn't even examined my own mental picture of the post jump Cooper, but it was very heavily influenced by the FBI drawing.

We also must think about whether he bribed someone to give him a ride, maybe a few days hiding and keep their mouth shut. If you took money you might not be in any hurry to talk to the FBI about it.

If he landed amidst a pot grower community they'd have probably helped him out and shut up about it.
Pot growers like hiring certain kinds of fugitives to work their crops because they know a fugitive isnt going to rat them out.

It's all speculation though. We have good arguments on both sides of the survived/didnt survive debate.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[snowmman 3]

Agreed.

Can someone summarize what the "didn't survive" theory is?
I can't keep track of it.

Does it require a different flight path? Or does it require ignoring some testimony?

Or are there multiple "didn't survive" scenarios?

What are the plausible ones that cover all the facts? Do we have to pick and choose facts? Which ones do we say might have errors?

I'm thinking about what Safe would think, here.

[georger 258]

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Agreed.

Can someone summarize what the "didn't survive" theory is?
I can't keep track of it.

Reply> It might be easier to re-read every page in this forum 5000 times under the new assumption Cooper
had a tommy gun packed in his shorts.(377)

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[377 22]

I think Cooper would have gladly traded any armament he might have had for a waterproof down parka and some hiking boots on that cold rainy night.

I don't think Cooper was carrying a gun Georger, but you cannot rule it out. A concealed gun might have been a plan B that he didnt have to execute. It really doesnt matter much since we have no evidence that one was used.

What are the chances that he bailed out waaaaay later than the pressure bump time? Can we rule that out?

I keep thinking about Steve Fossett. Tons of resources and hundred of "experts" were involved and they were all looking in the wrong place. It became a HUGE mystery but only because they were making incorrect assumptions about his flight.

His wreckage would have been found pretty quickly had they been looking in the right areas. They never once included the actual crash site in their searches. They just kept searching the predicted area more and more intensely.

Might we be making the FOSSETT error?

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[snowmman 3]

377:

didn't the search map I posted on Fossett's (the stuff found, the plane, etc) also show a big issue.

Wasn't there an FAA no fly zone there?

I have to research this more.

(edit) I was wrong. They put the no fly zone in AFTER the wreckage was discovered.

http://tfr.faa.gov/save_pages/detail_8_1954.html

Good details here: (I thought the forum comments there were interesting)
http://www.gearthblog.com/blog/archives/2008/10/steve_fossett_items_found_near_mamm.html

(edit) For GE enthusiasts, Fossetitems.kmz is available at that url, and has the topo map overlay from the Madera County Sheriff.

The GE imagery is 2005.

[skyjack71 0]

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Jo has continually harrased everyone involved in this case she has built her stories to fit any situation that may sound good to others she has atacked not only Shelly and I But continues to atack the agencies and others that has tried to help her. I have recieved many phone calls from her and she does make comments that are inapropriate to the facts in question.

I have talked to you one time in the last 7 yrs and that was at your request since you came into this forum - I have the PM in which you sent me your number asking me to call. That was the phone you continued and never relented on "You Lie" "Admit You Lied" "You had NO witnesses for your trip" "You lied - those places do not exist". This went on and on and on for a long time - I felt like I was a prisoner of war being questioned.
===================

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I Have all the documintation and phone call records to prove it. She Knoes this. I only want her to stop her games and go on with her life.

I have never played any games and if you have anything besides that one phone call you requested regarding you since 2002 - I called you after my trip out there in 2001 and told you about the places I found. At that time you said they didn't exist and you maintained that in the abusive conversation I had with you at your request.

Prior to 2002 there where several phone calls not of which were abusive on your part or mine.
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her verbal atacks on people I know. that is is time I either get her to agree to stop what she is doing or take her to court and prove to all that she has done nothing but create problems and purger herself .Jo knows that I have all the documation to do this.

Jerry if you have this documentation that I have "verbally" attacked you or anyone else - (I do not consider my banter in this forum as verbal abuse) - Produce it in a court of law. I have NOT purgered myself in anyway...at any time.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[377 22]

A couple of acro pilots I know say that the catastrophic impact damage leaves no doubt in their minds that Fossett was doing acro. They say you couldn't get those speeds in level flight in a Citabria which is a pretty slow plane. They told me it is easy to misjudge things when you are doing acro near rising or wildly uneven terrain.

I know the Tena Bar money find says we are in the right general area, but think outside of the box.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[snowmman 3]

I really didn't read up much on GE 5 and their new tour stuff.

just browsing, found a tour for the recent Flight 1549 (Scully)
that flys it in GE.

You need to have installed the latest GE 5
http://www.davinciglobal.com/flight1549/flight1549shortd.kmz
The amazing thing is the voice transcript (audio) is part of the tour inside GE. I didn't know they could do that. (edit) There's even a photo of a fake flock of birds overlayed. Weird.
377: you really got to fly this in GE. Good stuff.


I guess I was using some of the features when I tried making a video of a flyover for the critical area (forget the details right now)


see other stuff here:
http://www.gearthblog.com/blog/archives/flying/