DB Cooper

[DWeber 4]

It’s bizarre to me we act like Hahneman is some newly discovered suspect. He spent over 10 years in prison for highjacking a plane. The FBI eliminated him. He’s appeared in the 302s one time where Gregory said he didn’t resemble Cooper at all. That’s enough for me. 
 

[FLYJACK 784]

1 hour ago, georger said:

Kaye suggested the torquing of the bills was possibly from rolling/tumbling...  ? Did you check your claim about Tom with Tom?  I called Tom up and asked him after you started making this claim about Tom.

You continue to claim: the money rolled along the bottom of the River.  (and Tom claims this...)

Stop claiming and prove it!

Call Tom up and ask him what he thinks.

Ive had enough of your eternal bullshit for one day. 

Yes. The rolling on the bottom theory is interesting. It says a  lot about the people and conditions at the time of the excavation. That this piece of drivel ever got started!  The fact that you peddle this says a  lot about you! How far in school did you go? 

Are you self trained? Came up by your bootstraps? Nothing wrong with that but .... that may leave gaps in a persons maldum fornax . . . . ? 

Yes, I did talk to Tom, you lied about that as well..

I quoted Tom here exactly where he suggested on the citizensleuths website the torquing may be from the rolling/tumbling.. So, he is not against the money rolling/tumbling along the bottom.

He believes intuitively the money eroded in situ but doesn't know the mechanism.. We agreed that some rolling/tumbling experiments should be done..

So, mocking something or somebody you disagree with is your MO... you never have a rational argument...

You are dismissing me, Tom, Palmer and the FBI... for considering that theory..

I think you are the one with a problem..

 

[olemisscub 576]

3 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

 

You are experiencing a cognitive dissonance, you know I am a good researcher but can't accept that we have different conclusions

 

This is literally how you treat others. How many times have people on this forum been shocked and taken aback by how you can't take any form of disagreement. You are the least magnanimous human I've ever come across on internet forums in 25 years of messing around on forums. I've literally seen you refuse to "agree to disagree" when people have offered you that olive branch to end an argument. You MUST be right about all things. It's bizarre and its why you're universally disliked in the Vortex. It's not because people don't like your conclusions, it's your unhinged behavior in defending them. 

[FLYJACK 784]

1 hour ago, DWeber said:

It’s bizarre to me we act like Hahneman is some newly discovered suspect. He spent over 10 years in prison for highjacking a plane. The FBI eliminated him. He’s appeared in the 302s one time where Gregory said he didn’t resemble Cooper at all. That’s enough for me. 
 

So, this is exactly why I started looking into him,,,  Surely, they must have eliminated him for some legit reason... Nope.

I found no legit reason,,, but I did find a massive error that would cause them to eliminate him.

They showed an UNSUB sketch to witnesses... One pic of about 8 looks similar to that sketch... I have many images of him that look nothing like that sketch.. even some witnesses form his hijacking didn't like that sketch.

I also have a Cooper Witness image that looks 95% like him...

That doesn't make him Cooper, it means that he was prematurely dismissed.

[DWeber 4]

14 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

So, this is exactly why I started looking into him,,,  Surely, they must have eliminated him for some legit reason... Nope.

I found no legit reason,,, but I did find a massive error that would cause them to eliminate him.

They showed an UNSUB sketch to witnesses... One pic of about 8 looks similar to that sketch... I have many images of him that look nothing like that sketch.. even some witnesses form his hijacking didn't like that sketch.

I also have a Cooper Witness image that looks 95% like him...

That doesn't make him Cooper, it means that he was prematurely dismissed.

This is interesting. If you found a massive error that caused a promising suspect to be eliminated (regardless of who it was) it makes me wonder if others could have been eliminated by error as well. Langseth and Lyons come to mind. 

[FLYJACK 784]

25 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

This is literally how you treat others. How many times have people on this forum been shocked and taken aback by how you can't take any form of disagreement. You are the least magnanimous human I've ever come across on internet forums in 25 years of messing around on forums. I've literally seen you refuse to "agree to disagree" when people have offered you that olive branch to end an argument. You MUST be right about all things. It's bizarre and its why you're universally disliked in the Vortex. It's not because people don't like your conclusions, it's your unhinged behavior in defending them. 

So, what disagreement,,,,,,   what do I have wrong?

Can you articulate something I have wrong without personally taking a dig at me... like you usually do.

Edited Tuesday at 11:09 PM by FLYJACK

[FLYJACK 784]

31 minutes ago, DWeber said:

This is interesting. If you found a massive error that caused a promising suspect to be eliminated (regardless of who it was) it makes me wonder if others could have been eliminated by error as well. Langseth and Lyons come to mind. 

Sure, it is always possible,, somewhere in the files I remember a suspect was eliminated then un-eliminated...

Eliminated is often subjective for the FBI,,, it is not definitive.

The FBI may eliminate based on a subjective feeling based on limited evidence.. however if the FBI knows a suspect was in another location during Norjak that is definitive..

and I have never found any indication or written evidence that Hahneman was officially or unofficially eliminated. The error I found would eliminate him,,

Remember, the FBI concluded that the only way they could get a conviction was if Cooper co-operated.. If a suspect did not co-operate they may not have the evidence to lay a charge..

So, the bar to prove a suspect is Cooper is really high..

Edited Tuesday at 11:29 PM by FLYJACK

[georger 271]

1 hour ago, FLYJACK said:

Yes, I did talk to Tom, you lied about that as well..

I quoted Tom here exactly where he suggested on the citizensleuths website the torquing may be from the rolling/tumbling.. So, he is not against the money rolling/tumbling along the bottom.

He believes intuitively the money eroded in situ but doesn't know the mechanism.. We agreed that some rolling/tumbling experiments should be done..

So, mocking something or somebody you disagree with is your MO... you never have a rational argument...

You are dismissing me, Tom, Palmer and the FBI... for considering that theory..

I think you are the one with a problem..

 

It is strange you and I have entirely different results and understanding after talking to the same person.

Yes, I did talk to Tom, you lied about that as well.

Do you really care?  Or is this just one more of your devices for sowing total disorder? Are you exploiting Cooperdome for your own personal gratification?   

Can you name a fish that doesn't lie? Is there anyone you havent called a liar? Do you even know what a  liar is?

By now of course the whole point (money rolling on the bottom) has been sacrificed to the FlyJack Liar Gods! Distract. Divert. Destroy . . . . years of this bullshit.

 

Edited Tuesday at 11:46 PM by georger

[FLYJACK 784]

9 minutes ago, georger said:

It is strange you and I have entirely different results and understanding after talking to the same person.

Yes, I did talk to Tom, you lied about that as well.

Do you really care?  Or is this just one more of your devices for sowing total disorder? Are you exploiting Cooperdome for your own personal gratification?   

Can you name a fish that doesn't lie? Is there anyone you havent called a liar? Do you even know what a  liar is?

By now of course the whole point (money rolling on the bottom) has been sacrificed to the FlyJack Liar Gods! Distract. Divert. Destroy . . . . years of this bullshit.

 

Projection...

Put me on ignore and put yourself out of misery..

[georger 271]

36 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

Projection...

Put me on ignore and put yourself out of misery..

Do the same!  If  you cant stand the truth.... and freely discuss the Cooper case without harassing people ...

Just to be clear, last time I talked to Tom, he did not support the 'roiling along the bottom, bouncing along the bottom, end over end along the bottom.....' or any other version of the FBI/Palmer theory .... for how the money got to Tena Bar, the shape and condition of the money as found at Tena Bar, blah blah blah blah blah blah .........

Try a more grownup scientific theory that uses the operand facts at Tena Bar. Duhhhhhhhh. Thats my advice.

The idea that the Ingram money got its "shape" from rolling along the bottom of the river is ludicrous and laughable on its face!  That theory is a child's theory. Palmer cannot have been serious about this. For one thing, the shape of he money as found is a function of TIME. This money is a clock!

BTW Tom can speak for himself! Tom is free to come to any forum any time and speak for himself. Tom does not need pseudo windbags (you or ME!) speaking for him ... on any subject!

enough of this FJ nonsense...................

 

[FLYJACK 784]

1 hour ago, georger said:

Do the same!  If  you cant stand the truth.... and freely discuss the Cooper case without harassing people ...

Just to be clear, last time I talked to Tom, he did not support the 'roiling along the bottom, bouncing along the bottom, end over end along the bottom.....' or any other version of the FBI/Palmer theory .... for how the money got to Tena Bar, the shape and condition of the money as found at Tena Bar, blah blah blah blah blah blah .........

Try a more grownup scientific theory that uses the operand facts at Tena Bar. Duhhhhhhhh. Thats my advice.

The idea that the Ingram money got its "shape" from rolling along the bottom of the river is ludicrous and laughable on its face!  That theory is a child's theory. Palmer cannot have been serious about this. For one thing, the shape of he money as found is a function of TIME. This money is a clock!

BTW Tom can speak for himself! Tom is free to come to any forum any time and speak for himself. Tom does not need pseudo windbags (you or ME!) speaking for him ... on any subject!

enough of this FJ nonsense...................

 

Tom ruled out the money rolling a long distance with the Washougal in mind,,, I agree with that... It would have to be less than a few miles. The best entry point is Frenchman's Bar..

You are just wrong... and prove my previous statements,, you can't articulate an argument so you use ridicule to end any discussion or inquiry..

The money most likely came from the River, it sunk to the bottom and would have been pushed along the bottom by the current..  the shape of the erosion on the bills is consistent with rolling or tumbling per Palmer... There is no proven explanation for the erosion pattern in situ so this is an excellent theory... IMO, the best theory..

The reason you and many others have stalled and will never accomplish anything in this case is because you don't have the reasoning skills to work through the evidence advance good theories and test them...

You have a closed mind and are stuck in 2011 and use mental tricks to keep it closed.

Georger 2025 mocks a legit theory to dismiss it...

Georger 2010 would have figured out an experiment to evaluate it..

Edited Wednesday at 02:07 AM by FLYJACK

[FLYJACK 784]

This is from the files... the lights of Portland which is well lit... Cooper didn't jump near Portland... but 20-25 miles North..

[georger 271]

1 hour ago, FLYJACK said:

Tom ruled out the money rolling a long distance with the Washougal in mind,,, I agree with that... It would have to be less than a few miles. The best entry point is Frenchman's Bar..

You are just wrong... and prove my previous statements,, you can't articulate an argument so you use ridicule to end any discussion or inquiry..

The money most likely came from the River, it sunk to the bottom and would have been pushed along the bottom by the current..  the shape of the erosion on the bills is consistent with rolling or tumbling per Palmer... There is no proven explanation for the erosion pattern in situ so this is an excellent theory... IMO, the best theory..

The reason you and many others have stalled and will never accomplish anything in this case is because you don't have the reasoning skills to work through the evidence advance good theories and test them...

You have a closed mind and are stuck in 2011 and use mental tricks to keep it closed.

Georger 2025 mocks a legit theory to dismiss it...

Georger 2010 would have figured out an experiment to evaluate it..

ok ...

 

Edited Wednesday at 03:18 AM by georger

[georger 271]

6 hours ago, olemisscub said:

This is literally how you treat others. How many times have people on this forum been shocked and taken aback by how you can't take any form of disagreement. You are the least magnanimous human I've ever come across on internet forums in 25 years of messing around on forums. I've literally seen you refuse to "agree to disagree" when people have offered you that olive branch to end an argument. You MUST be right about all things. It's bizarre and its why you're universally disliked in the Vortex. It's not because people don't like your conclusions, it's your unhinged behavior in defending them. 

FJ has hijacked this Cooper forum. He MUST dominate all things. He isnt going to let anyone else function.

Its very clear FJ is not a scientist. He has computer skills but the social skills of a child. 

Nothing anyone can do while that dominates this board. On the money find and remarks people including Palmer made. Like Tom, I believe Palmer rushed his analysis because he was pressed for time and he didn't consider the Cooper find important. Palmer clearly did not take a forensic approach (which is time consuming) and neither did the FBI agents who lacked any formal training in these matters. Palmer actually avoided the central issue people raised - how long has the money been here -  because he sensed a real conflict between (a) the condition of the money and (b) its location in the strata he had just dated. During his presentation a few Agents nailed him on that so he grudgingly push back the date beyond one year (his first assessment). I think he was rushed and just didnt have the time or interest because none of this mattered to him personally or academically. Had it been someone from the US Treasury Forensic Lab vs Palmer, the response would have assuredly been different!

The problem is the type and amount of deterioration in the Ingram money cannot be accounted for (a)in a single one year time frame, or (b) by rolling/tumbling down any river! 

Flyjack seems to be brainless and uninformed when it comes to those forensic details and facts! FJ is not a scientist! H doesnt have the outlook or concerns of a real scientist. FJ is an internet commentator with a few computer skills. His memory may also be poor!

The central issues are time and deterioration. Clear down to the molecular level on a sandbar, and so far as is known, only 'on' Tena Bar.

Goode luck with surviving FJ!

 

[FLYJACK 784]

7 hours ago, georger said:

FJ has hijacked this Cooper forum. He MUST dominate all things. He isnt going to let anyone else function.

Its very clear FJ is not a scientist. He has computer skills but the social skills of a child. 

Nothing anyone can do while that dominates this board. On the money find and remarks people including Palmer made. Like Tom, I believe Palmer rushed his analysis because he was pressed for time and he didn't consider the Cooper find important. Palmer clearly did not take a forensic approach (which is time consuming) and neither did the FBI agents who lacked any formal training in these matters. Palmer actually avoided the central issue people raised - how long has the money been here -  because he sensed a real conflict between (a) the condition of the money and (b) its location in the strata he had just dated. During his presentation a few Agents nailed him on that so he grudgingly push back the date beyond one year (his first assessment). I think he was rushed and just didnt have the time or interest because none of this mattered to him personally or academically. Had it been someone from the US Treasury Forensic Lab vs Palmer, the response would have assuredly been different!

The problem is the type and amount of deterioration in the Ingram money cannot be accounted for (a)in a single one year time frame, or (b) by rolling/tumbling down any river! 

Flyjack seems to be brainless and uninformed when it comes to those forensic details and facts! FJ is not a scientist! H doesnt have the outlook or concerns of a real scientist. FJ is an internet commentator with a few computer skills. His memory may also be poor!

The central issues are time and deterioration. Clear down to the molecular level on a sandbar, and so far as is known, only 'on' Tena Bar.

Goode luck with surviving FJ!

 

Good grief,,, that is projection...

I left for almost a year and you added NOTHING...

You have ZERO evidence that explains the erosion pattern on the money. You attack me personally to defend an unfounded opinion and reject the tumbling along the bottom theory shared by Palmer a Geologist.....  

Your approach to the hypothesis is as far from science as you can get....  you have become an impediment for the advancement of the case, worse than irrelevant..

This is the reason you have contributed nothing to this case in over a decade..

I have some amazing Cooper research and people like you are the reason I stopped sharing it years ago...  and everybody else pays the price for that..

Edited Wednesday at 01:19 PM by FLYJACK

[georger 271]

6 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

Good grief,,, that is projection...

I left for almost a year and you added NOTHING...

You have ZERO evidence that explains the erosion pattern on the money. You attack me personally to defend an unfounded opinion and reject the tumbling along the bottom theory shared by Palmer a Geologist.....  

Your approach to the hypothesis is as far from science as you can get....  you have become an impediment for the advancement of the case, worse than irrelevant..

This is the reason you have contributed nothing to this case in over a decade..

I have some amazing Cooper research and people like you are the reason I stopped sharing it years ago...  and everybody else pays the price for that..

More Lies by Georger -

Lesson No. 1: Paper banknotes (US Treasury Dept)

Generally, the paper used is different from ordinary paper: it is much more resilient, resists wear and tear (the average life of a paper banknote is two years), and also does not contain the usual agents that make ordinary paper glow slightly under ultraviolet light.

The ink is waterproof. The fabric that makes up the bill will absorb water.Jul 20, 2019...

A trip through water is not likely to distort or decompose paper banknotes.

Banknote paper is actually a cloth. Decomposition on the molecular level, say on a sandbar, is likely to require months if not years.

 

In 1996, the U.S. Treasury introduced a significant redesign for Federal Reserve Notes to incorporate new anti-counterfeiting features, such as watermarks, ... paper formulation by paper chemists has occurred several times over the years. notably by a panel of experts and paper making experts associated with the University of Iowa School of the Book at Iowa City, Iowa, etal.

 

See Paper Money :  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paper_money

Edited Wednesday at 06:56 PM by georger

[FLYJACK 784]

51 minutes ago, georger said:

More Lies by Georger -

Lesson No. 1: Paper banknotes (US Treasury Dept)

Generally, the paper used is different from ordinary paper: it is much more resilient, resists wear and tear (the average life of a paper banknote is two years), and also does not contain the usual agents that make ordinary paper glow slightly under ultraviolet light.

The ink is waterproof. The fabric that makes up the bill will absorb water.Jul 20, 2019...

A trip through water is not likely to distort or decompose paper banknotes.

Banknote paper is actually a cloth. Decomposition on the molecular level, say on a sandbar, is likely to require months if not years.

 

In 1996, the U.S. Treasury introduced a significant redesign for Federal Reserve Notes to incorporate new anti-counterfeiting features, such as watermarks, ... paper formulation by paper chemists has occurred several times over the years. notably by a panel of experts and paper making experts associated with the University of Iowa School of the Book at Iowa City, Iowa, etal.

 

See Paper Money :  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paper_money

It isn't "a trip through water" it is tumbling along an abrasive sandy bottom...  

I don't like AI stuff but you do,,, this doesn't prove anything but makes it clearer..

 

AI Overview

If currency bills were to tumble along a sandy river bottom, the physical abrasion from the sand and water would cause significant damage

. The bill's material, a cotton-linen blend, would be worn away by the constant friction, leading to a loss of structural integrity and clarity. 

The abrasion process

1. Friction: As the current pushes the bills, they would be scraped and scuffed by sand and other sediment. The rough, constant rubbing would gradually wear down the surface of the bills.
2. Soaking and weakening: Currency is durable, but prolonged exposure to water weakens the fibers. The waterlogged bills would become more limp and susceptible to tearing and disintegrating.
3. Physical impact: The bills would likely collide with rocks and other debris in the river, causing tears, nicks, and further damage to their structure.
4. Discoloration: The bills would absorb contaminants and minerals from the water, resulting in discoloration and staining. 

 

Edited Wednesday at 07:29 PM by FLYJACK

[georger 271]

24 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

It isn't "a trip through water" it is tumbling along an abrasive sandy bottom...  

I don't like AI stuff but you do,,, this doesn't prove anything but makes it clearer..

 

AI Overview

If currency bills were to tumble along a sandy river bottom, the physical abrasion from the sand and water would cause significant damage

. The bill's material, a cotton-linen blend, would be worn away by the constant friction, leading to a loss of structural integrity and clarity. 

The abrasion process

1. Friction: As the current pushes the bills, they would be scraped and scuffed by sand and other sediment. The rough, constant rubbing would gradually wear down the surface of the bills.
2. Soaking and weakening: Currency is durable, but prolonged exposure to water weakens the fibers. The waterlogged bills would become more limp and susceptible to tearing and disintegrating.
3. Physical impact: The bills would likely collide with rocks and other debris in the river, causing tears, nicks, and further damage to their structure.
4. Discoloration: The bills would absorb contaminants and minerals from the water, resulting in discoloration and staining. 

 

Until now I had not realised that you are now Tom Kaye's spokesman and in charge of the whole Cooper case. The new source for all Cooper truth!

Nothing can happen without your approval. NOTHING!

Good luck with that.  No further need for a yearly Cooper Con.

Flyjack is in charge of everything. Everything else is irrelevant!

Edited Wednesday at 07:49 PM by georger

[FLYJACK 784]

4 minutes ago, georger said:

Until now I had not realised that you are now Tom Kaye's spokesman and in charge of the whole Cooper case. The new source for all Cooper truth!

Nothing can happen without your approval. NOTHING!

Good luck with that.

Seek help...  You know that isn't true..

I now realize that I was giving you far too much credit,, you really don't understand a simple theory...

Edited Wednesday at 07:52 PM by FLYJACK

[georger 271]

4 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

It isn't "a trip through water" it is tumbling along an abrasive sandy bottom...  

I don't like AI stuff but you do,,, this doesn't prove anything but makes it clearer..

 

AI Overview

If currency bills were to tumble along a sandy river bottom, the physical abrasion from the sand and water would cause significant damage

. The bill's material, a cotton-linen blend, would be worn away by the constant friction, leading to a loss of structural integrity and clarity. 

The abrasion process

1. Friction: As the current pushes the bills, they would be scraped and scuffed by sand and other sediment. The rough, constant rubbing would gradually wear down the surface of the bills.
2. Soaking and weakening: Currency is durable, but prolonged exposure to water weakens the fibers. The waterlogged bills would become more limp and susceptible to tearing and disintegrating.
3. Physical impact: The bills would likely collide with rocks and other debris in the river, causing tears, nicks, and further damage to their structure.
4. Discoloration: The bills would absorb contaminants and minerals from the water, resulting in discoloration and staining. 

 

AI Overview?  Not your over view?  Tom looked at several bills. What does Tom say?

Did you ask AI if the Ingram bills got to Tena Bar by  tumbling along a river bottom ? I am speculating you didn't ask AI that question fearing a negative answer or any any outcome you dont like ?  I mean you are a carnival act. You cant risk negative outcomes. And you call others liars!

You can now claim that any of the above traits 'proves' the Ingram money got to Tena Bar by, what is your phrase?  tumbling along an abrasive sandy bottom...  

Congrats. The Cooper money discussion socalled is over. You won. Tom Kaye is fired - not needed!

Edited yesterday at 12:13 AM by georger

[FLYJACK 784]

4 minutes ago, georger said:

AI Overview?  Not your over view?  Tom looked at several bills. What does Tom say?

Did you ask AI if the Ingram bills got to Tena Bar by  tumbling along a river bottom ? I am speculating you didn't ask AI that question fearing a negative answer or any any outcome you dont like ?  I mean you are a carnival act. You cant risk negative outcomes. And you call others liars!

You can now claim that any of the above traits 'proves' the Ingram money got to Tena Bar by, what is your phrase?  tumbling along an abrasive sandy bottom...  

Congrats. The Cooper money discussion socalled is over. You won. Tom Kaye is fired - not needed!

 

It has been clear for a long time that you are incapable of any honest discussion.

[georger 271]

2 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

 

It has been clear for a long time that you are incapable of any honest discussion.

The money may continue to confound people forever, in part because of the assumptions you and others have made. Several of the assumptions you make are contradictory. It has been clear for a long time that you are incapable of any educated discussion.

Edited yesterday at 03:21 AM by georger

[Kamkisky 28]

On 9/16/2025 at 6:49 PM, FLYJACK said:

This is from the files... the lights of Portland which is well lit... Cooper didn't jump near Portland... but 20-25 miles North..

“and other distinctive lights in the area”

 

[FLYJACK 784]

1 hour ago, Kamkisky said:

“and other distinctive lights in the area”

 

Cooper did not jump in the Portland area or even in the Portland Metropolitan Area.. 20-25 miles North.

However, my point was that it is not a certainly that Cooper could see the ground even from the bottom of the stairs as many seem to assume...  maybe, if there was a break in the clouds at the right spot.

[Kamkisky 28]

1 hour ago, FLYJACK said:

Cooper did not jump in the Portland area or even in the Portland Metropolitan Area.. 20-25 miles North.

However, my point was that it is not a certainly that Cooper could see the ground even from the bottom of the stairs as many seem to assume...  maybe, if there was a break in the clouds at the right spot.

We know that in 71 the first city lights after the dense forest was BG. It lines up.