DB Cooper

[lxchilton 10]

2 hours ago, olemisscub said:

I've never had a real clear answer for this, but it was a radio for "cockpit communications" according to Tina's statement. I wrote this on your reddit post just now, but the word "radio" comes from Tina. I think it would be better described as a walkie-talkie for communicating with Al Lee and/or the fuel truck guys. Essentially it was for short-range communication with some of the guys on the ground outside. 

Cooper seemed to be aware of its existence. It's nowhere in the transcript where they mention discussing this with him, but I guess they must have explained to him at some point that it would be needed to communicate with the guy bringing the ransom items, etc.

 

I would assume it would have been big enough to elicit a response from Cooper if he cared. Thinking about this in conjunction with his earlier "aircraft radio should be used as little as possible" direction, it's another example of surface level stuff that's said to increase the gravity of the situation that he completely abandons basically after it's said. 

So much of what he said feels like window dressing to add a layer of legitimacy and impact to his requests. I am constantly going back and forth on which of his words actually matter. 

[olemisscub 582]

2 hours ago, lxchilton said:

I would assume it would have been big enough to elicit a response from Cooper if he cared. Thinking about this in conjunction with his earlier "aircraft radio should be used as little as possible" direction, it's another example of surface level stuff that's said to increase the gravity of the situation that he completely abandons basically after it's said. 

So much of what he said feels like window dressing to add a layer of legitimacy and impact to his requests. I am constantly going back and forth on which of his words actually matter. 

yes, he's a confounding combination of seeming to know what's he talking about at certain times but then other times he's obviously full of shit. I think about him scoffing over them not being able to take off with the stairs down. "Yes they can..." There's absolutely no way he could have known that. As far as I know the only time a 727 has ever taken off with the stairs down was during the evacuation of Da Nang in 1975 and that was obviously an emergency. 

[dudeman17 376]

38 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

As far as I know the only time a 727 has ever taken off with the stairs down was during the evacuation of Da Nang in 1975 and that was obviously an emergency. 

 

Do you know the details of that? As I understand it, those stairs down and locked are meant to be able to support the plane, since all three engines are on the tail making it tail-heavy, it risked being able to tilt back as passengers are loading. If that is true, then those stairs down and locked could prevent the plane from rotating on takeoff, and that could potentially cause damage to the tail section in the attempt?

[lxchilton 10]

2 hours ago, dudeman17 said:

 

Do you know the details of that? As I understand it, those stairs down and locked are meant to be able to support the plane, since all three engines are on the tail making it tail-heavy, it risked being able to tilt back as passengers are loading. If that is true, then those stairs down and locked could prevent the plane from rotating on takeoff, and that could potentially cause damage to the tail section in the attempt?

You can see some pretty harrowing video of it here:

As for the issues taking off with the stairs down, I don't think it would have mattered since they operated as a kickstand and not something that could bear the load of the whole plane. In this instance the plane had like 300+ people on it--some clinging to the stairs--and they managed to get out of there under gun and grenade(!) fire. 

I don't think Cooper said that they could take of with them down from a place of knowledge; he just said things to get people moving. It's why I don't think his "pick it up in the air" comment means much other than "cut the shit and let's go."

[lxchilton 10]

So did they just screw up in not giving him the leather satchel (which could be a duffel bag sort of thing, if not a knapsack) and then Cooper never made a real stink about it so he never got it?

His priorities were strange.

[olemisscub 582]

56 minutes ago, lxchilton said:

 

So did they just screw up in not giving him the leather satchel (which could be a duffel bag sort of thing, if not a knapsack) and then Cooper never made a real stink about it so he never got it?

His priorities were strange.

I've said it a million time. It's weird that he decided to spend an hour and a half McGyvering the money bag instead of simply demanding that a knapsack be brought. 

[lxchilton 10]

1 hour ago, olemisscub said:

I've said it a million time. It's weird that he decided to spend an hour and a half McGyvering the money bag instead of simply demanding that a knapsack be brought. 

Right and the fact that it was literally a walk away is the real kicker.

[georger 271]

3 hours ago, olemisscub said:

I've said it a million time. It's weird that he decided to spend an hour and a half McGyvering the money bag instead of simply demanding that a knapsack be brought. 

I think Cooper is a guy that likes McGyvering. Control freak. In a strange way he is also trying to maintain 'isolation' - as little interaction with the outside world as possible. He is demonstrating his tactical priorities. It may not be logical but it is his way of fostering the illusion that he is in control. He also has confidence in his McGyvering! Arrogance. Manager type. If something goes wrong he only has himself to blame ? A loner mentality. Loners have lots of grudges... its a personality type. Myopic manager type. ? Conflict archetype.

Saw these personality types when I worked for Voc Rehab. They just could not accept that a stroke of some other event had changed their lives. They turned to crime as a shortcut thinking they could not be caught ... a pathetic situation common in the rehab profession. They always forget or overlook something crucial.

Cooper may be a guy who decided to solve a financial problem by an elaborate parachuting solution few others would even conceive.

The FBI might have looked for Cooper in the social welfare system.

Edited September 5 by georger

[haggarknew 5]

At times he almost acts like he is under the influence of some kind of narcotic?

[Kamkisky 30]

He did some strange things but like Georger said, some could be tactical. Having as little interaction with the world outside the plane as possible is a perfectly rationale decision. 

To me he seems like his plan was to keep it simple, get in and get out as quick as possible and have as few touch points as possible. He says as few words as possible too. Everything is focused on getting this show on the road. This is a bank robber mentality. 

The one thing he does that seems the oddest to me could be the easiest to explain. Cooper waited until the plane landed and Tina was going to make her first run and then he went to the bathroom with the briefcase and mystery bag. Why wait till on the ground? That has no tactical advantage unless he was up to something. And why bring the mystery bag from under his seat? I get he could have just had to take a piss but he isn’t a child. He would have known as the plane was descending he had to pee. It’s way smarter to do that in the air. It’s super suspicious to wait until on the ground when he is most vulnerable. 
 

Only one thing weirder happens the whole skyjacking. And that’s Flo re-boarding to get her purse. That’s just flat out crazy behavior. I found one other example of a passenger re-boarding, he came to get his jacket and he left in a body bag. 

Edited September 6 by Kamkisky

[georger 271]

2 hours ago, Kamkisky said:

He did some strange things but like Georger said, some could be tactical. Having as little interaction with the world outside the plane as possible is a perfectly rationale decision. 

To me he seems like his plan was to keep it simple, get in and get out as quick as possible and have as few touch points as possible. He says as few words as possible too. Everything is focused on getting this show on the road. This is a bank robber mentality. 

The one thing he does that seems the oddest to me could be the easiest to explain. Cooper waited until the plane landed and Tina was going to make her first run and then he went to the bathroom with the briefcase and mystery bag. Why wait till on the ground? That has no tactical advantage unless he was up to something. And why bring the mystery bag from under his seat? I get he could have just had to take a piss but he isn’t a child. He would have known as the plane was descending he had to pee. It’s way smarter to do that in the air. It’s super suspicious to wait until on the ground when he is most vulnerable. 
 

Only one thing weirder happens the whole skyjacking. And that’s Flo re-boarding to get her purse. That’s just flat out crazy behavior. I found one other example of a passenger re-boarding, he came to get his jacket and he left in a body bag. 

Wasnt it Alice who forgot her purse ?

[Kamkisky 30]

2 hours ago, georger said:

Wasnt it Alice who forgot her purse ?

It was Flo. She exited the plane with Alice, and I believe she made it all the way to inside the car on the tarmac. Somehow she was allowed to just walk back up the stairs and go to the back with Cooper and Tina to retrieve her purse. It’s absolutely an insane thing to do.
 

I’ve speculated she had something in her purse and realized she’d get busted if found…I’m happy to assume weed but could be other substances. No one cares 50+ years in if a 22 year old stew had party favors in her purse in her way to Miami. It’s not meant as a slight. Hell…I’d expect one of the crew to have something. 

Edited September 6 by Kamkisky

[olemisscub 582]

14 hours ago, Kamkisky said:

It was Flo. She exited the plane with Alice, and I believe she made it all the way to inside the car on the tarmac. Somehow she was allowed to just walk back up the stairs and go to the back with Cooper and Tina to retrieve her purse. It’s absolutely an insane thing to do.
 

I’ve speculated she had something in her purse and realized she’d get busted if found…I’m happy to assume weed but could be other substances. No one cares 50+ years in if a 22 year old stew had party favors in her purse in her way to Miami. It’s not meant as a slight. Hell…I’d expect one of the crew to have something. 

I view it moreso as evidence that Flo was no longer afraid of Cooper by that point. I can’t say I blame her. That plane could’ve been heading off to parts unknown. She needs her money and her license and all that. 

[monk71 6]

On 9/5/2025 at 4:53 PM, haggarknew said:

At times he almost acts like he is under the influence of some kind of narcotic?

Most certainly he was on amphetamine since he offered benzedrine to the pilots. (Or was this another myth not mentioned in the 302s?) Anymore thoughts on how a narcotic would influence him?

[olemisscub 582]

5 hours ago, monk71 said:

Most certainly he was on amphetamine since he offered benzedrine to the pilots. (Or was this another myth not mentioned in the 302s?) Anymore thoughts on how a narcotic would influence him?

Benzedrine has been confirmed. 

[haggarknew 5]

18 hours ago, monk71 said:

Most certainly he was on amphetamine since he offered benzedrine to the pilots. (Or was this another myth not mentioned in the 302s?) Anymore thoughts on how a narcotic would influence him?

To me his behavior seems erratic at times. The giddiness he displayed when the money arrived is one of them. Another would be his obsession with McGyvering the money bag instead of just asking for a different one. How about his flirting with the stews? You would think that he would be too absorbed in the hijacking process to care about flirting. (at least it seems like he was flirting to me) Any other strange behavior I might be forgetting?

[olemisscub 582]

12 hours ago, haggarknew said:

To me his behavior seems erratic at times. The giddiness he displayed when the money arrived is one of them. Another would be his obsession with McGyvering the money bag instead of just asking for a different one. How about his flirting with the stews? You would think that he would be too absorbed in the hijacking process to care about flirting. (at least it seems like he was flirting to me) Any other strange behavior I might be forgetting?

When would you say he was flirting? I've never really gotten that sense from him. Just seemed like he was being pleasant with the stews on a few occasions. 

Edited September 8 by olemisscub

[georger 271]

12 hours ago, olemisscub said:

When would you say he was flirting? I've never really gotten that sense from him. Just seemed like he was being pleasant with the stews on a few occasions. 

Gregory may have thought he was flirting ?

[haggarknew 5]

On 9/8/2025 at 10:16 AM, olemisscub said:

When would you say he was flirting? I've never really gotten that sense from him. Just seemed like he was being pleasant with the stews on a few occasions. 

I'm probably just being cynical.... yet I ask... Why all the small talk with Tina? I understand they had a lot of time to kill yet... Why not demand silence, stay quiet,and not risk letting some information slip out about your personal life that would have been better keeping to yourself? He seemed to me to be pretty short and curt about everything else? I'm probably being cynical. I've been known for being that way in the past occasionally. Lol   

[lxchilton 10]

16 hours ago, haggarknew said:

I'm probably just being cynical.... yet I ask... Why all the small talk with Tina? I understand they had a lot of time to kill yet... Why not demand silence, stay quiet,and not risk letting some information slip out about your personal life that would have been better keeping to yourself? He seemed to me to be pretty short and curt about everything else? I'm probably being cynical. I've been known for being that way in the past occasionally. Lol   

Cooper was clearly invested in keeping everyone as calm and cool as possible; talking in a normal fashion puts people at ease and leaves less time to sit there wondering what kinds of awful things might be about to happen. He was also very firm in not letting details about his personal life get out so it doesn't seem to have been a problem that he kept Tina talking. 

When there are deadlines that aren't being met, Cooper becomes more short and direct. All things considered, I think his overall actions on the plane are pretty measured. 

Stuff that seems a little out of character is somewhat heavily influenced by our interpretation of the 302s; Flo thinks he's being childish, but that doesn't mean he becomes the Batman animated series Joker; Cooper smiles and makes a bad joke which seems out of character for his stoicism earlier in the hijacking.

Lastly, Cooper does maintain silence with pretty much everyone else. He has Tina to talk to and to keep busy, but other than that he's maintaining a facade of normality that pretty much works the whole time. 

[lxchilton 10]

This seems of note these days...

[FLYJACK 785]

1 hour ago, lxchilton said:

This seems of note these days...

Not really.

It was previously reported in the files that his UNSUB SKETCH was shown to witnesses... negative..  

I have lots of pics that do not look at all like his sketch and witnesses that didn't like his composite sketch (just like Cooper),, even witnesses (for his hijacking) shown his actual picture who said definitely not him... For the set of images I have he looks like three completely different people...

Sketches aren't made to eliminate people they are used to generate leads.. like the Cooper sketch A and B look like different people..  you don't use them to eliminate.

[lxchilton 10]

51 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

Not really.

It was previously reported in the files that his UNSUB SKETCH was shown to witnesses... negative..  

I have lots of pics that do not look at all like his sketch and witnesses that didn't like his composite sketch (just like Cooper),, even witnesses (for his hijacking) shown his actual picture who said definitely not him... For the set of images I have he looks like three completely different people...

Sketches aren't made to eliminate people they are used to generate leads.. like the Cooper sketch A and B look like different people..  you don't use them to eliminate.

That's certainly the most important part of a sketch, though I have to say that the Cooper sketches and the Hahneman sketches are not going to generate leads involving the same person. I am assuming that once Hahneman was caught they showed actual pictures of him to the stewardesses and other witnesses just like they did with McCoy and that we are going to see information to that affect sometime soon in the files. 

I can't discount that there are always outliers when it comes to witnesses in a crime, but we have to treat outliers as such rather than giving them more weight than they are due; if you pick literally any person and take several existing photos of them you will be able to see versions of them that look dissimilar enough to suggest to someone who has only seen the photos that they are different people entirely. 

There are plenty of instances in the FBI files where they state that the dissimilarities between a driver's license photo and the sketches/descriptions of Cooper are good enough information to stop investigation on a certain suspect so sometimes they must have relied of the sketch to eliminate.

[FLYJACK 785]

3 hours ago, lxchilton said:

That's certainly the most important part of a sketch, though I have to say that the Cooper sketches and the Hahneman sketches are not going to generate leads involving the same person. I am assuming that once Hahneman was caught they showed actual pictures of him to the stewardesses and other witnesses just like they did with McCoy and that we are going to see information to that affect sometime soon in the files. 

I can't discount that there are always outliers when it comes to witnesses in a crime, but we have to treat outliers as such rather than giving them more weight than they are due; if you pick literally any person and take several existing photos of them you will be able to see versions of them that look dissimilar enough to suggest to someone who has only seen the photos that they are different people entirely. 

There are plenty of instances in the FBI files where they state that the dissimilarities between a driver's license photo and the sketches/descriptions of Cooper are good enough information to stop investigation on a certain suspect so sometimes they must have relied of the sketch to eliminate.

Point is,, it is not dispositive. 

So far, no evidence they showed actual pics to Norjak witnesses... they could have but it isn't confirmed.

They showed his actual pic to witnesses in his hijacking and some said not him..

He had a forgetful and varied appearance in images.. 

I realize that people dismiss him based on limited public knowledge..  I blame Ryan for leading the misinformation campaign,,,  The public knowledge is a small fraction of what I have,, he is no outlier. 

 

[lxchilton 10]

22 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

Point is,, it is not dispositive. 

So far, no evidence they showed actual pics to Norjak witnesses... they could have but it isn't confirmed.

They showed his actual pic to witnesses in his hijacking and some said not him..

He had a forgetful and varied appearance in images.. 

I realize that people dismiss him based on limited public knowledge..  I blame Ryan for leading the misinformation campaign,,,  The public knowledge is a small fraction of what I have,, he is no outlier. 

 

I agree there is way too little out there about him--seems like his later entry into the parajacking pantheon and the fact that he was tight lipped about so much of it after the fact wrapped him up in a thicker air of mystery than the rest. The fact that he jumped into Honduras certainly makes it more unique and interesting too.

The fact that there's basically no public information about how the ransom money came back is bonkers.

Personally, I cannot get over the fact that he seems so much smaller than the general witness accounts of Cooper. Or that he seems to be described as looking entirely different. But I won't belabor that point any further. 

Maybe there is some evidence out there to show he's connected to Cooper somehow, but as it stands with publicly available information he's as much an outlier as most of the named suspects.

I would pay good money to see a solid movie or documentary on the whole Hahneman saga though!