DB Cooper

[FLYJACK 779]

3 minutes ago, Kamkisky said:

This is documented?

V187 takes the plane to Astoria, still the coast. It's definitely more southwest. It ain't south though, and any layman with a map could tell you it's not on the way to Reno. 

 

It goes to V27 and then down the coast,, exactly what the pilots were discussing.. so it IS legit path..

Does anybody actually read the files or is it just me..

Southwest then South...  

 

[Nicholas Broughton 83]

19 minutes ago, Kamkisky said:

This is documented?

V187 takes the plane to Astoria, still the coast. It's definitely more southwest. It ain't south though, and any layman with a map could tell you it's not on the way to Reno. 

 

Maybe R99 can weigh in here but couldn’t a basic compass tell him if they were taking V23 or not? If he knew that there was only one other option then it shouldn’t be hard to figure. V27 is the left red line at 230 degrees, and the right line is V23 at 178 degrees. When you take off southbound from seatac you're heading is 160 degrees. So 178 is a very slight turn, 230 is sharper.

[Kamkisky 20]

5 minutes ago, Nicholas Broughton said:

Maybe R99 can weigh in here but couldn’t a basic compass tell him if they were taking V23 or not? If he knew that there was only one other option then it shouldn’t be hard to figure. V27 is the left red line at 230 degrees, and the right line is V23 at 178 degrees. When you take off southbound from seatac you're heading is 160 degrees. So 178 is a very slight turn, 230 is sharper.

Thanks.

I don't know enough to understand "going J-5" or the rest of the text from the files Fly posted. It doesn't say v187 or v27 or v23. I'll await someone more knowledgeable to interpret what's being said here. 

What I do know is this is those things are not being said by Cooper. It's being said by people who didn't understand the plan was to jump out the back of the jet. I also know Cooper did not say anything about "put us southerly out over the, somewhat along the coast." He said no to coastal airports. He said yes to Reno. I also know Astoria is not on the way to Reno. 

 

Edited 2 hours ago by Kamkisky

[Nicholas Broughton 83]

Cliff is actually very well versed on NORJAK. He took part in the Washington State Historical Museum Cooper exhibit and multiple Cooper Cons. I have had the pleasure of speaking with him at both the CC’s he attended. He has discussed the case with Cooperites and industry insiders alike. Even people involved with SAGE asking what radars would of been involved in tracking 305. He has an intellectual curiosity about the case, make no mistake. Another excerpt from his CooperCon 21 panel discussion. Cliff: “I talked to a lady who I work with at the museum of flight who was a northwest orient stewardess and she wasn’t on this flight, didn’t really know the pilot but in her talking to other stewardesses about this, she said the pilot made that kind of maneuver because he didn’t want the airplane blowing up over the city and so that’s why he avoided the airport and avoided the downtown (Portland metro) area as that black line shows (pointing at the FBI/Air Force map on stage behind him).” This sounds like a much more logical option if you wanted to avoid major cities then flying a route you’ve probably never flown before, that’s a 129 statue miles longer, requires more reserve fuel (already flying dirty), loosing a degree of freedom incase of an emergency in a very sketchy and foreign flight config. 

Edited 1 hour ago by Nicholas Broughton

[Robert99 64]

1 hour ago, Nicholas Broughton said:

Maybe R99 can weigh in here but couldn’t a basic compass tell him if they were taking V23 or not? If he knew that there was only one other option then it shouldn’t be hard to figure. V27 is the left red line at 230 degrees, and the right line is V23 at 178 degrees. When you take off southbound from seatac you're heading is 160 degrees. So 178 is a very slight turn, 230 is sharper.

Any 12-year-old Boy Scout in Washington state, and I was one a long time ago, could easily determine if the airliner was headed south.  

If I had my compass with me, it would just a matter of taking a look at it.  Even if I didn't have my compass, if I could see a few stars, I could figure out what was south in just a few seconds.

Those were just some of the basic skills that Boy Scouts were taught and tested on in my time.

[Nicholas Broughton 83]

11 minutes ago, Robert99 said:

Any 12-year-old Boy Scout in Washington state, and I was one a long time ago, could easily determine if the airliner was headed south.  

If I had my compass with me, it would just a matter of taking a look at it.  Even if I didn't have my compass, if I could see a few stars, I could figure out what was south in just a few seconds.

Those were just some of the basic skills that Boy Scouts were taught and tested on in my time.

Thanks. Well this seems to conflict with Fly’s declaration that Cooper would not have known where he was. Since we don’t know who he was…. he could of been a Boy Scout!

Edited 1 hour ago by Nicholas Broughton

[Robert99 64]

1 hour ago, Kamkisky said:

Thanks.

I don't know enough to understand "going J-5" or the rest of the text from the files Fly posted. It doesn't say v187 or v27 or v23. I'll await someone more knowledgeable to interpret what's being said here. 

What I do know is this is those things are not being said by Cooper. It's being said by people who didn't understand the plan was to jump out the back of the jet. I also know Cooper did not say anything about "put us southerly out over the, somewhat along the coast." He said no to coastal airports. He said yes to Reno. I also know Astoria is not on the way to Reno. 

 

I don't know where FlyJack got this "going J-5" quotation but it may have been in reference to the J-5 High Altitude IFR route that goes to the southeast from Seattle.

Jet High Altitude IFR routes are used above Flight Level 180 (18,000 feet ASL in a standard atmosphere).  But the reference may have just been that the crew was just discussing things well knowing that they were going to be limited to 10,000 feet ASL.

[Robert99 64]

3 minutes ago, Nicholas Broughton said:

Thanks. Well this seems to conflict with Fly’s declaration that Cooper would not have known where he was. Since we don’t know who he was…. he could of been a Boy Scout!

Exactly.