DB Cooper

[olemisscub 555]

1 hour ago, FLYJACK said:

 

So, we have two options..

Cooper recognized them as old bailout rigs and jumped anyway.. NOT rejecting them and demanding mains/front reserves. 

or 

Cooper didn't recognize them as bailout rigs and jumped.

 

The problem is we can't possibly ever know which of those two options is correct, and there is nothing to sway us one way or the other, so to have the answer we would literally have to be in Cooper's mind, which obviously we can't do. So I don't see this particular line of inquiry to be helpful. 

For me, the only aspect of Cooper's parachuting acumen that we can have reasonable confidence in knowing is the belief that he was NOT a recreational skydiver of any sort. We know how the skydiver copycats behaved and we know how the non-skydiver copycats behaved. There is little doubt that his behavior falls in line with the latter category. 

On a sliding scale of "parachuting know-how" among all of the parajackers, Cooper seems to fall in the middle. Yet the main reasons I place him in the middle of the road, aside from Tina saying he seemed comfortable putting it on, really come from one source: Tosaw.

He is our ONLY source for Cooper complaining about D-rings and him looking at packing cards, which are the two things that really elevate him above the McNally's and Fisher's of the world. As I've said numerous times, I would lean toward Tosaw getting that from Tina back when her memory was closer to the event than it certainly is now. Additionally, Tosaw was of the belief that Cooper was foolish and got himself killed. It doesn't benefit the narrative of his book to give Cooper enough parachuting knowledge to know what D-rings were and to know what packing cards were. So I would lean toward him not making that up. The packing cards especially would be a bizarre detail to invent for Tosaw.

However, there have to be some slight embellishments or artistic licenses found within Tosaw's narrative. That's just the reality you face when writing a vivid narrative like he did. So might him bitching about the D-rings be one of those?

Regardless, as I said, the only thing we can be reasonably confident in given the case evidence and comparative evidence with the other parajackers is that Cooper would have gone about things differently if he was a rec skydiver. 

[FLYJACK 779]

1 hour ago, olemisscub said:

The problem is we can't possibly ever know which of those two options is correct, and there is nothing to sway us one way or the other, so to have the answer we would literally have to be in Cooper's mind, which obviously we can't do. So I don't see this particular line of inquiry to be helpful. 

For me, the only aspect of Cooper's parachuting acumen that we can have reasonable confidence in knowing is the belief that he was NOT a recreational skydiver of any sort. We know how the skydiver copycats behaved and we know how the non-skydiver copycats behaved. There is little doubt that his behavior falls in line with the latter category. 

On a sliding scale of "parachuting know-how" among all of the parajackers, Cooper seems to fall in the middle. Yet the main reasons I place him in the middle of the road, aside from Tina saying he seemed comfortable putting it on, really come from one source: Tosaw.

He is our ONLY source for Cooper complaining about D-rings and him looking at packing cards, which are the two things that really elevate him above the McNally's and Fisher's of the world. As I've said numerous times, I would lean toward Tosaw getting that from Tina back when her memory was closer to the event than it certainly is now. Additionally, Tosaw was of the belief that Cooper was foolish and got himself killed. It doesn't benefit the narrative of his book to give Cooper enough parachuting knowledge to know what D-rings were and to know what packing cards were. So I would lean toward him not making that up. The packing cards especially would be a bizarre detail to invent for Tosaw.

However, there have to be some slight embellishments or artistic licenses found within Tosaw's narrative. That's just the reality you face when writing a vivid narrative like he did. So might him bitching about the D-rings be one of those?

Regardless, as I said, the only thing we can be reasonably confident in given the case evidence and comparative evidence with the other parajackers is that Cooper would have gone about things differently if he was a rec skydiver. 

Well, I generally agree... 

except for one thing,, my question is the delta between jumping with a bailout rig and a main/reserve.. 

Would any jumpers use a bailout rig vs main/reserve...

They are not the same... in performance or risk.

and remember, the Pioneer at the museum is a civilian container.. the one Cooper used was military but I do not believe it was an NB6/8,,  it was likely a WW2 military version.. similar to the tan Pioneer.

 

I am looking through the Poynter riggers handbook  and there are lots and lots of military rigs that were manual or rigged with automatic deployment systems.. too many to list. Back mains and front reserves..

They list military model numbers...  I don't recognize.

One example 1947... there are many...

 

Edited 5 hours ago by FLYJACK

[dudeman17 359]

6 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

The military started doing ripcord freefalls in the late 50's..

The fact is there was main/front reserve military gear available.

 

Yes, of course. But that was not the majority.

 

6 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

At that time bailout rigs were constructed differently,

 

And they still are. Any part of a parachute component that will be used in an emergency use chute has to be tested to FAA TSO standards.

 

6 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

non steerable, opened harder, landed harder and had a higher risk of injury.

 

This has been addressed. If you don't want to accept the answer, then don't. But one thing you keep doing is looking at the rig as a whole, and not separating the container from the various canopies that might be in it.

 

7 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

So, we have two options..

Cooper recognized them as old bailout rigs and jumped anyway.. NOT rejecting them and demanding mains/front reserves. 

or 

Cooper didn't recognize them as bailout rigs and jumped.

 

My guess is the first. But ultimately we don't know.

 

7 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

So, I asked which would a jumper choose..  a 30 year old pilot bailout rig or a main/reserve..  What is the delta for that decision..

 

Dudeman17 refused to answer after at least three attempts to ask and chose to twist assumptions to fit his personal opinion. 

 

Bullshit. I answered that question each time you asked it. If you want to reject my answer, that's your prerogative. But to say that I refused to answer and twisted it, that is you flat out lying. Hypocrite.

 

7 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

Both of you have completely lost the plot...

 

It seems to me that you have lost your mind. You've changed recently. Has someone hacked your account? You are smarter than this.