DB Cooper

[FLYJACK 776]

10 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

I have seen empirical evidence that he was contacted by someone in the 80’s. I don’t have that for 72. It’s not inconsistent to believe in something for which there is evidence but remain skeptical on something without it. If we unearth a 302 from Gunther in 72 claiming that DB Cooper himself wants to meet with him, then that will change my view on it. 

And I didn’t say I’m not “open to the possibility.” I said I find it improbable. 

 

Ok, fair comment.. it wasn't clear.

Can we put you you in the skeptical but open to the possibility category then.. 

IMO, we can be both skeptical and pursue a theory,,

 

Edited yesterday at 12:32 AM by FLYJACK

[Robert99 62]

5 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

Sticking with my nasty habit of buying every book released about Cooper, today I received the new Reca book from Lisa Story. 

Scorched Earth should be the rule of the day with the Reca people. Normally, I’d say that suspect grifting on Cooper for profit is the most disdainful thing someone can do, but the Reca grift is even more worthy of disdain because of how insulting it is. That book has 100 pages essentially saying that “Cooper Nation”, as she calls it, are all a bunch of fools who can’t interpret evidence correctly. And not only are we fools but the pilots had no idea what they were doing and the stewardesses may as well have had the Men in Black flash the pen in their faces because their memory is so flawed that it should be outright ignored. 

Lisa Story has apparently got us pegged.

OleMiss, when is your book going to be released. 

[olemisscub 552]

Just now, Robert99 said:

 

OleMiss, when is your book going to be released. 

Whenever a publisher decides to publish. The full manuscript is with several literary agents who expressed interest. Waiting to hear back from them to decide which one to go with (or even if they want to proceed!). But apparently it’s a good sign in the first place that agents expressed interest after reading the samples. 

I could always just publish through an internet publisher or whatever, but the book is pretty academic and I’d like for it to be “reliably published” with a real publisher. 

Last resort I could always go with Schaffner Publishing. That is Flo’s cousin and apparently he wants a Cooper book, but I’ve seen mixed reviews about them, so I haven’t contacted them. 

[olemisscub 552]

19 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

Ok, fair comment.. it wasn't clear.

Can we put you you in the skeptical but open to the possibility category then.. 

IMO, we can be both skeptical and pursue a theory,,

 

Anything is possible if there isn’t demonstrable evidence showing otherwise. So you can put me in the “exceedingly skeptical but open to the possibility” category when it comes to all things Gunther haha. 

I was indeed fully convinced that the entire thing was performance art from Max until the 302 dropped. That certainly changed things. 

[Robert99 62]

On 8/1/2025 at 9:24 AM, FLYJACK said:

The drag from the wheels down, flaps down condition was already built in when Cooper went down the stairs..

I find it hard to believe the lowering the stairs with Cooper on them would not add to the existing drag and slow the plane some amount... maybe 10-20 knots?

Those stairs are acting like a big flap,, 30 sq ft... it had to have some effect..

I got 3200 lbs of drag.. probably have something wrong here what is wrong?? the angle?

https://www.symbolab.com/calculator/physics/drag-equation?calculator=drag-equation&density=1.204&density-units=kg/m^3&velocity=195&velocity-units=mi/h&drag_coefficient=1.12&area=30&area-units=ft^2&drag_force=3210.3&drag_force-units=lbf

If the drag coefficient is adjusted for angle you get 2100 lbs..

 

FlyJack, I am seriously beginning to question which planet you are coming from, and it does not seem to be the Earth.

Since you have repeatedly refused to reveal what training you have, if any, in mathematics, physics, or aviation, I humbly submit that you should repeat your calculations and take care to adhere closely to the following suggestions.

Use the same system of units in all your calculations.  Don't switch between metric, nautical, or other systems without making the necessary corrections between the systems.  The good old fashioned English system of feet, seconds, Miles Per Hour, etc., is still a great system and most of the posters on this site are probably familiar with it.

Also, you list 194 MPH as being the airliners speed when Cooper jumped.  Actually, the airliner was flying at 170 Knots Indicated Air Speed (KIAS), which results in a 194 Knots True Air Speed (KTAS) at 10,000 feet under the temperature and pressure conditions that then existed.  And 194 KTAS is 225 Miles Per Hour.

Double check your previous calculations and post the new ones.

[FLYJACK 776]

6 minutes ago, Robert99 said:

FlyJack, I am seriously beginning to question which planet you are coming from, and it does not seem to be the Earth.

Since you have repeatedly refused to reveal what training you have, if any, in mathematics, physics, or aviation, I humbly submit that you should repeat your calculations and take care to adhere closely to the following suggestions.

Use the same system of units in all your calculations.  Don't switch between metric, nautical, or other systems without making the necessary corrections between the systems.  The good old fashioned English system of feet, seconds, Miles Per Hour, etc., is still a great system and most of the posters on this site are probably familiar with it.

Also, you list 194 MPH as being the airliners speed when Cooper jumped.  Actually, the airliner was flying at 170 Knots Indicated Air Speed (KIAS), which results in a 194 Knots True Air Speed (KTAS) at 10,000 feet under the temperature and pressure conditions that then existed.  And 194 KTAS is 225 Miles Per Hour.

Double check your previous calculations and post the new ones.

Thanks, Robert,,

I was asking for your input not for insults,,, 

Since you can't answer it I will pursue it elsewhere..

and ignore you for the remainder of your life.

Clearly, you aren't qualified.

 

 

[olemisscub 552]

9 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

Thanks, Robert,,

I was asking for your input not for insults,,, 

Since you can't answer it I will pursue it elsewhere..

and ignore you for the remainder of your life.

Clearly, you aren't qualified.

 

 

I’m with you on the drag. Not sure how significant it would be but surely it would act as a speed brake of some sort. 

[Robert99 62]

30 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

Thanks, Robert,,

I was asking for your input not for insults,,, 

Since you can't answer it I will pursue it elsewhere..

and ignore you for the remainder of your life.

Clearly, you aren't qualified.

 

 

FlyJack, what I posted was not an insult.  You apparently have little contact with the real world.

If you do your numbers again as I asked you to do and come up with the same thing, then I will show you how to do it.  You do understand that neither of us has accurate information about the aft stairs so if our numbers are even in the same ballpark, they will be acceptable.

This will give you some experience in the art of number crunching.

[Robert99 62]

26 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

I’m with you on the drag. Not sure how significant it would be but surely it would act as a speed brake of some sort. 

There will be a very slight increase in drag, relatively speaking, but not the 2118.8 pounds that FlyJack claims.  Nor a 10 - 20 Knot reduction in the airspeed as FlyJack also claims.

[FLYJACK 776]

1 hour ago, olemisscub said:

I’m with you on the drag. Not sure how significant it would be but surely it would act as a speed brake of some sort. 

Since nobody here is qualified..

I'll find out,, I know a current commercial pilot..

Edited yesterday at 02:26 AM by FLYJACK

[georger 268]

40 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

Since nobody here is qualified..

I'll find out,, I know a current commercial pilot..

Really? How do you know who is qualified or not .... ?  Maybe a qualified person doesn't want to tangle with you?  There could be many reasons why nobody answered ......... attitude is NOT science or LIFE ....

Edited yesterday at 02:49 AM by georger

[FLYJACK 776]

1 minute ago, georger said:

Really? How do you know who is qualified or not .... ?  Maybe a qualified person doesn't want to tangle with you?  There could be many reasons why nobody answered ......... attitude is NOT science ....

If you spent more time on the case than attacking me your case knowledge might get beyond 2011.. 

[georger 268]

4 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

If you spent more time on the case than attacking me your case knowledge might get beyond 2011.. 

Draw whatever conclusion suits you. I dont give a fuck ! You arent worth the trouble! Clearly you cant deal with facts.

Edited yesterday at 02:55 AM by georger

[FLYJACK 776]

2 minutes ago, georger said:

Draw whatever conclusion suits you. I dont give a xxxx ! You arent worth the trouble!

That has been obvious for years...  but you do seem obsessed with me, most of your posts are about me not the case.

What are you really scared of, Georger,,,

[georger 268]

9 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

That has been obvious for years...  but you do seem obsessed with me, most of your posts are about me not the case.

What are you really scared of, Georger,,,

Install a sign telling people what to do and when to do it!    

Scared?

I think you mean Afraid.  The lexicon seems to always be bigger than you know!  Go back to school Jackass.

Edited yesterday at 03:05 AM by georger

[FLYJACK 776]

39 minutes ago, georger said:

Install a sign telling people what to do and when to do it!    

Scared?

I think you mean Afraid.  The lexicon seems to always be bigger than you know!  Go back to school Jackass.

See, you just can't resist.

[Kamkisky 16]

On 8/1/2025 at 8:09 AM, CooperNWO305 said:

Or Ralph sent a copy to Max or Clara sent a copy. 

This is signed in crayon. A professional writer, or just a grown up in general, signs a formal letter to a former FBI agent in crayon? WTF? 

Edited 21 hours ago by Kamkisky

[Kamkisky 16]

The stairs thing comes back to expectations to me. Why wouldn't Cooper expect the stairs to fully deploy down? He had just walked up them. It's perfectly reasonable to assume the stairs are completely hydraulic. (Boeing basically cheaped-out on the design)

Sequence of events....Cooper uses the lever (it's a basic lever), the stairs don't go all the way down. He goes...WTF? He messes with the lever and calls the pilots (in some order?). They slow down the plane, level off and increase the flaps. Cooper meanwhile likely figures out the stairs are flapping in the breeze and are not hydraulic. 

How many steps down the stairs would he have to take to figure out his weight will lower the stairs against the airflow? 

Once Cooper has adjusted his expectations, and realized he can still get out by using his weight...everything is good. 

I'm missing the mystery here. Someone tell me what I have wrong. 

[Kamkisky 16]

I've also realized something about the money ask. He asked for negotiable or circulated, U.S. or American currency. When he makes that request he has not told the crew where the plane will be going next. They are heading north to Seattle, bordering on Canada. It could make sense to clarify. If a skyjacker was flying from the western part of the UK towards mainland Europe and was going to stop in eastern UK to get the money (and hasn't told the crew the next location), wouldn't it make sense to clarify he wants Pounds and not Euros? 

Edited 21 hours ago by Kamkisky

[olemisscub 552]

1 minute ago, Kamkisky said:

I've also realized something about the money ask. He asked for negotiable or circulated, U.S. or American currency. When he makes that request he has not told the crew where the plane will be going next. They are heading north to Seattle, bordering on Canada. It could make sense to clarify. If a skyjacker was flying from the western part of the UK towards mainland Europe and was going to stop in eastern UK to get the money, wouldn't it make sense to clarify he wants Pounds and not Euros? 

There is absolutely zero chance they'd have shown up with Canadian dollars during NORJAK if he had just said "I want $200,000 dollars by 5 p.m." I can't imagine Cooper was thinking like that. You're in America essentially committing a bank robbery. 100 times out of 100 the money is going to show up in American dollars. 

The fact that he asked for "negotiable currency" is even weirder than specifying U.S. or American. And that really does seem to be what he said. Flo wrote it in her notes. What kind of weirdo talks like that?

 

 

[Kamkisky 16]

7 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

There is absolutely zero chance they'd have shown up with Canadian dollars during NORJAK if he had just said "I want $200,000 dollars by 5 p.m." I can't imagine Cooper was thinking like that. You're in America essentially committing a bank robbery. 100 times out of 100 the money is going to show up in American dollars. 

The fact that he asked for "negotiable currency" is even weirder than specifying U.S. or American. And that really does seem to be what he said. Flo wrote it in her notes. What kind of weirdo talks like that?

 

 

Sounds to me like somebody who has stolen money in Canada and the U.S., perhaps other countries as well. He is being specific. He is in it for the money. 

Edited 21 hours ago by Kamkisky

[olemisscub 552]

6 minutes ago, Kamkisky said:

Sounds to me like somebody who has stolen money in Canada and the U.S., perhaps other countries as well. He is being specific. He is in it for the money. 

Perhaps he was just trying to appear overly formal and intelligent so as to be taken more seriously, distancing himself from the typical desperate criminal. 

[georger 268]

3 hours ago, Kamkisky said:

The stairs thing comes back to expectations to me. Why wouldn't Cooper expect the stairs to fully deploy down? He had just walked up them. It's perfectly reasonable to assume the stairs are completely hydraulic. (Boeing basically cheaped-out on the design)

Sequence of events....Cooper uses the lever (it's a basic lever), the stairs don't go all the way down. He goes...WTF? He messes with the lever and calls the pilots (in some order?). They slow down the plane, level off and increase the flaps. Cooper meanwhile likely figures out the stairs are flapping in the breeze and are not hydraulic. 

How many steps down the stairs would he have to take to figure out his weight will lower the stairs against the airflow? 

Once Cooper has adjusted his expectations, and realized he can still get out by using his weight...everything is good. 

I'm missing the mystery here. Someone tell me what I have wrong. 

Is it just me? What he is doing would bother most people - most scared shitless!  The guy either has guts or experience . . . . ?

Edited 18 hours ago by georger

[georger 268]

3 hours ago, Kamkisky said:

Sounds to me like somebody who has stolen money in Canada and the U.S., perhaps other countries as well. He is being specific. He is in it for the money. 

Its a language issue. Negotiable must be referring to the denominations he wants. Easily spendable bills. Otherwise, currency is negotiable by virtue of itself no matter the country or denomination.  If Cooper even said this and these are not Flo's chosen words ?

Its entirely possible that Cooper wasnt too bright and had trouble explaining himself well. And arrogant and non trusting. 'Get the show on the road and no funny stuff'. Did he say "git" or "get"? Does anyone know?   

I guess he didn't say 'yawl' or 'tater' ! 

He flubbed up with his original note taken to the cockpit. That note had a sample of his writing and his finger prints! Only later did he remember to ask for it back. The cockpit could have said 'we dont have it any more'. What can he do? Just one of Cooper's tactical failures. Based on his performance I dont think Cooper was a tactically trained person, certainly not by today's standards. 

Edited 17 hours ago by georger

[FLYJACK 776]

7 hours ago, Kamkisky said:

This is signed in crayon. A professional writer, or just a grown up in general, signs a formal letter to a former FBI agent in crayon? WTF? 

Gunther is s legit writer,, he contacted the FBI at end of August '82 about Clara he was also contacted by Clara afterward and told Himmelsbach,,

He also told the FBI,,, "chances are it's a hoax" but he has to look into it. So, he was skeptical and that was the foundation of his book..