DB Cooper

[FLYJACK 774]

5 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

whilst Tina and Flo just went along with it stupidly as it was drawn from scratch in front of them? Please. To pretend like they didn't sign off on that weird little nose is asinine. If they wanted it to be drawn a different way, Rose would have done so. He wasn't creating a piece of abstract art. 

How do you know what happened, you are speaking for Rose now..

It is very bad procedure to have witnesses together...

Why didn't Flo say the nose was too large when she picked out KK5-1.. answer: it wasn't.

[olemisscub 552]

1 minute ago, FLYJACK said:

Sure, I said it wasn't exclusive... that isn't the point. You keep claiming something opposite to what I already said.

 

You are missing the logic..

Cooper has some parachute experience. CHECK

Cooper was either a sport jumper or military. CHECK (smokejumper is more advanced)

Cooper used "front and back" CHECK

Sport jumpers use "main and reserve" CHECK

Hahneman, WW2 military used "front and back" CHECK

 

Conclusion = Cooper was not a sport jumper.. Cooper must have been military.

So are you still claiming that military don't use the term "mains" and "reserves"?

[olemisscub 552]

1 minute ago, FLYJACK said:

How do you know what happened, you are speaking for Rose now..

It is very bad procedure to have witnesses together...

Why didn't Flo say the nose was too large when she picked out KK5-1.. answer: it wasn't.

You're the one inventing things by claiming that the nose came from Alice. I was literally taken aback when you wrote that in such a declarative way. You have no idea where Bing's nose came from. 

Yep, we have a 302 where Alice describes the hijacker's nose as small. That doesn't mean that SHE is the reason his nose is so small. Absurd. 

Again, if the girls thought his Michael Jackson nose was wrong, they'd have corrected it. Clearly they didn't have a problem with it when Rose drew it nor did they have a problem with it when they were subsequently shown the updated version of Bing on Nov 30th. 

 

[FLYJACK 774]

1 minute ago, olemisscub said:

You're the one inventing things by claiming that the nose came from Alice. I was literally taken aback when you wrote that in such a declarative way. You have no idea where Bing's nose came from. 

Yep, we have a 302 where Alice describes the hijacker's nose as small. That doesn't mean that SHE is the reason his nose is so small. Absurd. 

Again, if the girls thought his Michael Jackson nose was wrong, they'd have corrected it. Clearly they didn't have a problem with it when Rose drew it nor did they have a problem with it when they were subsequently shown the updated version of Bing on Nov 30th. 

 

Alice is the only who said small nose... 

Alice and Flo made the initial sketch and Tina saw it later.

Flo picked out KK5-1 with a large nose and NEVER said the nose was too big.

It is never a good idea to have multiple witnesses together.

Logiical inference.. Alice came up with the small nose.

[Nicholas Broughton 79]

I’ll stick with the word of our brave soldiers over some know nothing canuck. Thomas "Doc" Crump has extensive experience in skydiving and military logistics, currently serving as a National Skydiving Judge and various other roles with the U.S. Parachute Association since 1997. In addition to being an Instructor Assisted Deployment skydiving instructor and a Safety & Training Advisor, Thomas holds multiple positions including Dropzone Safety Officer and Skydiving Demonstrator. Thomas has been associated with the U.S. Army since 1994, where responsibilities include Aerial Delivery Officer and Multifunctional Logistics Officer, with leadership roles overseeing logistics and safety in diverse operational settings. Academic qualifications include degrees in Psychology, Sociology, Multifunctional Logistics, and Aerospace Medicine from Georgia State University, United States Army Logistics University, and others, reflecting a commitment to continuous learning and expertise in both skydiving and military operations. 

https://theorg.com/org/uspa/org-chart/thomas-crump-doc

 

For the last time. Military not using Main and Reserve is factually inaccurate. It’s comical how Fly just can’t admit he’s wrong. 
 

Edited 10 hours ago by Nicholas Broughton

[olemisscub 552]

2 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

 

Alice and Flo made the initial sketch and Tina saw it later.

 

Alice and Flo MADE the Initial Sketch??? What in the actual hell are you talking about???

 

[FLYJACK 774]

33 minutes ago, Nicholas Broughton said:

I’ll stick with the word of our brave soldiers over some know nothing canuck. Thomas "Doc" Crump has extensive experience in skydiving and military logistics, currently serving as a National Skydiving Judge and various other roles with the U.S. Parachute Association since 1997. In addition to being an Instructor Assisted Deployment skydiving instructor and a Safety & Training Advisor, Thomas holds multiple positions including Dropzone Safety Officer and Skydiving Demonstrator. Thomas has been associated with the U.S. Army since 1994, where responsibilities include Aerial Delivery Officer and Multifunctional Logistics Officer, with leadership roles overseeing logistics and safety in diverse operational settings. Academic qualifications include degrees in Psychology, Sociology, Multifunctional Logistics, and Aerospace Medicine from Georgia State University, United States Army Logistics University, and others, reflecting a commitment to continuous learning and expertise in both skydiving and military operations. 

https://theorg.com/org/uspa/org-chart/thomas-crump-doc

 

 

 

So, as usual you are very confused..

Cooper initially demanded 2 "parachutes" that meant 2 sets of 1 back and 1 front.. he clarified and said "front and back chute"..

I never said it was exclusive.. that is in your imagination.

and I said when Ryan didn't understand that bailout rigs and mains are not the same..

"Asking for a "front and back" is old school military jargon for main and reserve.." 

which is true.. sport jumpers did not use that term.

 

You and Ryan have twisted things far out of context.
 

Edited 10 hours ago by FLYJACK

[FLYJACK 774]

26 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

Alice and Flo MADE the Initial Sketch??? What in the actual hell are you talking about???

 

Rose met with two stews together as he said, the third later viewed the resulting sketch for input.

Edited 10 hours ago by FLYJACK

[olemisscub 552]

Just now, FLYJACK said:

Rose met with two stews as he said, the third later viewed the resulting sketch for input.

lol

No sir. You don't get to walk back on this. 

You said Alice and Flo MADE the Initial sketch and Tina saw it later. You know you screwed that up. Admit it. It's not hard to admit a brain fart. It happens to all of us. 

[olemisscub 552]

5 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

 

"Asking for a "front and back" is old school military jargon for main and reserve.." 

 

You've STILL never shown any of us an example of this. You stating it as a fact doesn't make it true. 

[Nicholas Broughton 79]

17 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

Sport parachutists used "reserves and mains", military used "fronts and backs".. that is the difference..

Well that’s news to all old school military then. Because the resounding consensus from THEM is mains and reserves. They didn’t call them fronts and backs. That’s your invention. You can scream it from the rooftops over and over again, as much as you’d like, it will never make it true. Mr. 302 and myself are actually providing receipts for the matter in question. Can you do the same? Provide us with one document or one testimonial from old school military. We’ll wait…

[Robert99 61]

6 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

Sometimes, I think you guys are not being honest..

My post from 2011 that you quote is self-explanatory.  Cooper was simply looking for two skydiver type rigs as they were widely known in 1971.

Again, "front and back" was not a military term or even a civilian skydiver term in the 1971 time frame. 

[FLYJACK 774]

13 minutes ago, Robert99 said:

My post from 2011 that you quote is self-explanatory.  Cooper was simply looking for two skydiver type rigs as they were widely known in 1971.

Again, "front and back" was not a military term or even a civilian skydiver term in the 1971 time frame. 

He was asking for skydiver rigs, not military,, are you sure about that?

and I said it was old school terminology not current to 1971...  

Cooper was probably born in 1920's.. WW2 eligible.

Edited 10 hours ago by FLYJACK

[olemisscub 552]

2 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

He was asking for skydiver rigs, not military,, are you sure about that?

Cooper likely didn't know the difference, which is why his demand was generic as shit. 

[FLYJACK 774]

15 minutes ago, Nicholas Broughton said:

Well that’s news to all old school military then. Because the resounding consensus from THEM is mains and reserves. They didn’t call them fronts and backs. That’s your invention. You can scream it from the rooftops over and over again, as much as you’d like, it will never make it true. Mr. 302 and myself are actually providing receipts for the matter in question. Can you do the same? Provide us with one document or one testimonial from old school military. We’ll wait…

I never said it was exclusive..

Nicky you asked your military contact the wrong question...

 

Cooper asked for "front and back", would a sport jumper say that or a WW2 military person say that?

 

[FLYJACK 774]

Just now, olemisscub said:

Cooper likely didn't know the difference, which is why his demand was generic as shit. 

What the...  are you talking about.

 

[Robert99 61]

6 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

Since Cooper had some jump experience there are only three ways..

Smokejumper,, he didn't have that much experience.

Sport jumper,, he used the wrong term.

Military,, he initially used the term "parachute" then clarified "front and back".. military refers to chutes as front and back not reserve and main.

THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO SUGGEST THAT COOPER HAD ANY ACTUAL PARACHUTE JUMPING EXPERIENCE.

He said he didn't need the brochure on how to use a parachute.  That means only that he knew how to put on a parachute and had a one minute briefing on how to use it.

The briefing for passengers on how to use a parachute was essentially just:  "Jump out of the airplane, count to 10, and then pull the ripcord."  No more, no less.

[FLYJACK 774]

13 minutes ago, Robert99 said:

THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO SUGGEST THAT COOPER HAD ANY ACTUAL PARACHUTE JUMPING EXPERIENCE.

He said he didn't need the brochure on how to use a parachute.  That means only that he knew how to put on a parachute and had a one minute briefing on how to use it.

The briefing for passengers on how to use a parachute was essentially just:  "Jump out of the airplane, count to 10, and then pull the ripcord."  No more, no less.

Now your arguments make sense...  you are wrong.

He had some parachute experience.. it was not his first jump.

 

He rejected instructions.. (not believable for a first timer)

He knew about D rings.

He asked for a "parachute" proper term. He used "front and back" for clarification.

He put it on easily as if he had done it before.

He was not nervous.

He jumped in about 2 minutes after getting to the bottom of the stairs.

He rigged the money in a so called "drag bag".

He acknowledged chutes were coming from McChord,,, (erroneous from the crew)

 

 

 

Edited 9 hours ago by FLYJACK

[FLYJACK 774]

47 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

You've STILL never shown any of us an example of this. You stating it as a fact doesn't make it true. 

It is true,, Hahneman and Cooper said it..

A front and back is a reserve and main not a bailout rig as Ryan tried to claim.

[FLYJACK 774]

 

55 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

lol

No sir. You don't get to walk back on this. 

You said Alice and Flo MADE the Initial sketch and Tina saw it later. You know you screwed that up. Admit it. It's not hard to admit a brain fart. It happens to all of us. 

Rose said he met with two stews, not three. The files said he met with three.

One redacted file indicates that one stew saw the sketch produced by the others..

I believe that third stew was Tina.. 

Rose met with three but only two at the same time...

Edited 9 hours ago by FLYJACK

[olemisscub 552]

3 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

 

Rose said he met with two stews, not three. The files said he met with three.

One redacted file indicates that one stew saw the sketch produced by the others..

I believe that third stew was Tina.. 

Rose met with three but only two at the same time...

You said the Initial Sketch. Rose didn't draw the Initial Sketch. 

Admittedly, the early sketch stuff can be confusing and it took me a while to get it sorted out, but to think that TINA wasn't there with Rose is a bit silly. She spent 5 hours with the hijacker. She wasn't back in her apartment watching TV or taking a nap when the FBI's top forensic artist flew into Minneapolis on Nov 26th. 

[olemisscub 552]

17 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

It is true,, Hahneman and Cooper said it..

 

Two people using similar generic phraseology means that they picked it up in the same place? That's a bit of a stretch. 

Are you still of the opinion that WWII era military didn't use the term "main" and "reserve?"

Edited 9 hours ago by olemisscub

[FLYJACK 774]

6 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

You said the Initial Sketch. Rose didn't draw the Initial Sketch. 

Admittedly, the early sketch stuff can be confusing and it took me a while to get it sorted out, but to think that TINA wasn't there with Rose is a bit silly. She spent 5 hours with the hijacker. She wasn't back in her apartment watching TV or taking a nap when the FBI's top forensic artist flew into Minneapolis on Nov 26th. 

I didn't mean the very very first sketch.. Clearly, Rose met with the stews for A..

I didn't say she didn't meet Rose in Minneapolis,,

I believe she met with him after the other two did together..

All three met Rose but only two were at the same time.

It isn't clear due to redactions but it appears one stew likely Tina met with Rose after the other two.

Edited 9 hours ago by FLYJACK

[FLYJACK 774]

1 minute ago, olemisscub said:

Two people using similar generic phraseology means that they picked it up in the same place? That's a bit of a stretch. 

Are you still of the opinion that WWII era military didn't use the term "main" and "reserve?"

I never said that...  I said it wasn't exclusive.

You are the most dishonest person around...

[olemisscub 552]

1 minute ago, FLYJACK said:

I never said that...  I said it wasn't exclusive.

You are the most dishonest person around...