DB Cooper

[snowmman 3]

news article attached.
you might have to save and zoom it to read. (sorry about jpg, but size limits here)

only 29. Funny how the mom said he put on his "best brown suit". Story's more tragic than anything else.

There were a handful of hijacks that were done because the person wanted someone else released from jail.

[377 22]

Quote

when you say "all jumpers were talking" did this include jumpers with WA experience back to '62?

377: How many guys did you know when you started, that had been jumping in '62? Remember Issaquah has just opened in '62.

I really didn't know much about the backgrounds or first jump dates of the older more experienced jumpers at the CPC. I knew Doug Hansmann was from WA but didn't know about any of the others. Thom Lyons has written a lot about early jumping on the west coast and has posted it on his website. He might be able to answer those questions better than I can.

The Cooper story created a huge buzz in the skydiving community. The consensus was that he HAD to be a jumper and it was just a matter of figuring out which one. Speculation ran wild and many names were thrown around. There was almost a hope that Cooper was a skydiver as it would be humiliating for something so wild and cool to have been successfully executed by a mere whuffo.

As far as I know none of my cohorts were contacted by the FBI. I am not sure whether they were doing much investigation in CA.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[snowmman 3]

the more interesting experiments are probably those done with linen and decomposition in soil, rather than cotton.

This paper is interesting, because they did a 7 month test to try to get some data.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6WH8-45FC3CD-2N&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=3daa304ad328505f328587b140992587

I've always wondered whether the ink provided some protection against microbes, on the bills. (given the pattern of purple seen). I think they mention metals providing protection in this article.

I'll include some text from the summary here, not because I understand it, but because I think it shows the difficulty around decomposition experiments. It does mention some other kind of high tech gear. It also mentions that available N seems important for decomposition.

"Solid-state nuclear magnetic resonance (NMR) spectroscopy was used to investigate changes in the distribution of carbon between different functional groups indicative of some of the main types of biochemicals in the materials during the short term decomposition experiment"

"However, the results from adenosine triphosphate (ATP) analysis, which provides a measure of physiologically active micro-organisms, and from substrate utilization profiles (which provide an indication of the metabolic capability of the microbial community) did not support this. A short-term (7 months) laboratory experiment using samples of the original materials from the experimental archive and soil samples from the earthwork was conducted to attempt to simulate the conditions at the outset of the experiment. The rate of decomposition of the materials during this experiment was initially rapid and after 7 months between about 10 and 20% of the carbon in the buried materials had been lost. The substrate utilization profiles of the microbial communities associated with the decomposing materials could be related to their chemical composition, with the communities associated with plant-derived (carbohydrate-rich) materials giving large responses to carbohydrates"

[Orange1 0]

Quote

As far as I know none of my cohorts were contacted by the FBI. I am not sure whether they were doing much investigation in CA.

And if they weren't even going as far as CA chances are they didn't even consider Asia...

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[Orange1 0]

Interesting reading up them, see eg wiki article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montagnard ...also this thread:
http://e20-c75th-rangers-association.org/forums/showthread.php?t=394

Quote

In the final days of the Vietnam War in 1975 and immediately following, 1,000,000 Vietnamese refugees were evacuated from Vietnam and resettled in the United States. And in keeping with a 1960's promise, 150,000 Hmong tribesmen of the US "Secret Army" in Laos were evacuated to our country in 1975. Yet only 3,000 Montagnards, our most distinguished and loyal ally, have reached the U.S.

Another article I saw put the # of Montagnards evacuated to the US at 2000. Sounds like plenty of reason for someone to have a grudge, but of course the ethnic looks and accent would both have been completely wrong.

Oh and some 'trivia' seeing as we have been talking about inisgnia
http://cgi.ebay.com.my/PATCH-ARVN-RED-BERETS-Special-Forces-VIETNAM-WAR_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQitemZ380088533306

Quote

This is a Rare, Unauthorised Patch of the South Vietnam Special Forces. This piece worn by Recon Units and Units operating with the Montagnard Mike Force Units. Superb Piece, Should not be missed.

Finally, I idly wonder, given that Vietnam was French before liberation, how many Dan Cooper comics were circulating there.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[snowmman 3]

Quote

Quote

As far as I know none of my cohorts were contacted by the FBI. I am not sure whether they were doing much investigation in CA.

And if they weren't even going as far as CA chances are they didn't even consider Asia...

yeah. Hey 377: from that book/references/google map, it seemed to me that the density of jumpers in '60s was more towards the east coast.

If they didn't check CA much, then east coast would have been checked even less?

An "out-of-towner" might have lived with the weather, because he might have thought "it's always like this" when he got there...it is kind of always drizzly in NW in the nov/dec timeframe, right.

thinking about the PCA/USPA numbers, if we're starting with 10,000 "interesting"...then I would think easily 5% of those would be people that just "disappeared" that people lost contact with. That's 500 right there.
Most probably of not the right age though.

[georger 267]

Quote

Our investigation will NOT be able to identify Cooper.
It will correct miss information and give a clearer story on what potentially happened.
I am confident enough to publish the results but as with most high profile research, there will be MANY who argue with our conclusions. That's the way this business works. You can use those arguments to say we blew it, or look at the facts and see if you agree.
Tom

On the other hand, there is another area open to
investigation which anyone could take on. That is
the area of Biometrics, which I tried to introduce
in this forum. Deep credentials and laboratory
hardware are not required to do meaningful biometric work. Simple photographs can suffice and still lead to meaningful results:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biometrics

It is through a simple biometric approach that many
Cooper candidates have been eliminated to date,
including Duane Weber.

The central fact is, cranial proportions and ear
features remain essentially static once a body reaches
adulthood. These two basic factors can eliminate 95%
of all candidates, as I tried unsuccessfully to show with
Weber's ears and cranial structure, here.

In fact, ear structure and type are the most static
facial feature over time. Duane Weber's ears fit
into a different catagory vs any ears shown on any
D Cooper rendering. The proportion of ear ear size
and its placement on the cranium is totally
different for Weber than it is on any Cooper
rendering.

The same analysis can be done for Gosset, McCoy,
Christiansen, and any other candidate. Biometric
comparisons are easy to make. There is even software
available, but a kid with photos and a ruler and a compass and a monitor can also make the basic evaluation.

Maybe I will develop a game and make some money with this!

So, what we need here, evidently, is some smart
13 year old who can apply some very basic tests
and provide unimpeachable answers and possibly
break new ground.

This is basic science. The only question is, do we
use it or not.

Georger

ps* Basic ruler and arithmetic techniques can be
found in the EB Cooper-White "Primer for Arithmetic and Basic Geometry", 1895, 2nd edition by his niece
Georgia Cooper, 1922. There. You have a clue as to
who I am and what my credentials are! Tom can stop
speculating about my connections because he doesnt even know what he's talking about.

[georger 267]

Quote

Quote

when you say "all jumpers were talking" did this include jumpers with WA experience back to '62?

377: How many guys did you know when you started, that had been jumping in '62? Remember Issaquah has just opened in '62.

I really didn't know much about the backgrounds or first jump dates of the older more experienced jumpers at the CPC. I knew Doug Hansmann was from WA but didn't know about any of the others. Thom Lyons has written a lot about early jumping on the west coast and has posted it on his website. He might be able to answer those questions better than I can.

The Cooper story created a huge buzz in the skydiving community. The consensus was that he HAD to be a jumper and it was just a matter of figuring out which one. Speculation ran wild and many names were thrown around. There was almost a hope that Cooper was a skydiver as it would be humiliating for something so wild and cool to have been successfully executed by a mere whuffo.

As far as I know none of my cohorts were contacted by the FBI. I am not sure whether they were doing much investigation in CA.

377

77, you dont have to respond if you
dont want to but do you know Mr Tosaw?

George

[377 22]

Georger,

No, I do not know Mr Tosaw. He is the retired lawyer/ex FBI agent who is certain Cooper drowned and has financed a few attempts to locate his body or gear, right?

Assuming there is only one CA lawyer with that name, he is well known professionally for his specialty in tracing missing heirs.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[snowmman 3]

Quote

Georger,
..
Assuming there is only one CA lawyer with that name, he is well known professionally for his specialty in tracing missing heirs.
..
377

also, In 2003 Tosaw launched another search:
Evidently Dick Tosaw played football with Kinnick, and that's how Tosaw (Dick's brother) found out about the story, growing up.
Don't know what happened with this story.
Looks like they may have "let it be?"

Kinnick plane rescue plans abandoned
The Gazette - Feb 9, 2004
Q: What has become of the effort to raise the plane of Nile Kinnick, ... Tosaw said Kinnick was a strong swimmer, so it's a bit strange that he didn't ...

Kinnick's roommate: Let the wreckage be
The Gazette - Feb 9, 2003
Nile Kinnick would not have wanted his crashed Naval fighter plane ... Tosaw will seek Venezuela's permission to lift the wreckage from 100 feet of water ...
Related web pages

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nile_Kinnick

http://media.www.dailyiowan.com/media/storage/paper599/news/2003/01/28/Metro/Ui.Alumnus.Says.Hes.Found.Kinnicks.Plane-353380.shtml

After searching the Caribbean for a week, Richard Tosaw says he's found the wreckage of Nile Kinnick's fighter plane.

The UI alumnus returned to his home in California on Monday from Port of Spain, Trinidad, confident that one day, he'll truck the 60-year-old Grumman Hellcat to the UI. The first step in realizing that longtime dream is gaining permission from the Venezuelan government to salvage the plane, which lies within five miles of the South American country's territorial waters.

"I've never done something like this before, and I know that bureaucrats can delay work," said the 77-year-old former attorney. "I need someone who can get a decision made. But other than that, I don't foresee too many problems because the government won't care about the plane too much."

Kinnick, a Hawkeye who was awarded Iowa's first and -- so far -- only Heisman Trophy in 1939, died when his plane crashed in the Gulf of Paria during a practice flight in 1943. The UI law student was 24.

Tosaw predicted that his hired salvage expert, Martin Woodward, would use an underwater flotation device similar to a balloon that will drag the plane up 101 feet from the sea floor. Tosaw said he will personally foot the bill for transporting the remains of the craft, which remains buried under 10 feet of sand, back to the UI because it is a sentimental expedition for him.

"It'll just be like transporting a car," he said.

Tosaw's immediate plan is to contact the Venezuelan Embassy to obtain permission to recover the plane. He has yet to determine how much time it would take to complete the excavation. The expedition has so far cost him $10,000.

Steve Parrott, the university's director of University Relations, said he was unclear about the procedure for accepting donations and gifts of such a nature.

The wreckage was located using a global-positioning system by cross-checking coordinates Tosaw procured from the Navy ship USS Lexington.

He initially pursued the search more than 10 years ago but abandoned the project because he thought that salt water had corroded the aluminum plane, rendering it worthless.

Tosaw is aware that some critics find his effort disrespectful to Kinnick, likening it to digging up his grave. According to information Tosaw received from the Navy, Kinnick might have been killed instantly by the crash's impact. It is unknown if any of his remains will be recoverable.

"It's been almost 60 years since his death. He has no surviving relatives except a distant cousin who didn't mind what I was doing when I told him about it," Tosaw said. "Of course, it would be a different story if he had died recently."

[georger 267]

Quote

Georger,

No, I do not know Mr Tosaw. He is the retired lawyer/ex FBI agent who is certain Cooper drowned and has financed a few attempts to locate his body or gear, right?

Assuming there is only one CA lawyer with that name, he is well known professionally for his specialty in tracing missing heirs.

377

Thanks.

[georger 267]

Quote

Quote

Georger,
..
Assuming there is only one CA lawyer with that name, he is well known professionally for his specialty in tracing missing heirs.
..
377

also, In 2003 Tosaw launched another search:
Evidently Dick Tosaw played football with Kinnick, and that's how Tosaw (Dick's brother) found out about the story, growing up.
Don't know what happened with this story.
Looks like they may have "let it be?"

Kinnick plane rescue plans abandoned
The Gazette - Feb 9, 2004
Q: What has become of the effort to raise the plane of Nile Kinnick, ... Tosaw said Kinnick was a strong swimmer, so it's a bit strange that he didn't ...

Kinnick's roommate: Let the wreckage be
The Gazette - Feb 9, 2003
Nile Kinnick would not have wanted his crashed Naval fighter plane ... Tosaw will seek Venezuela's permission to lift the wreckage from 100 feet of water ...
Related web pages

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nile_Kinnick

http://media.www.dailyiowan.com/media/storage/paper599/news/2003/01/28/Metro/Ui.Alumnus.Says.Hes.Found.Kinnicks.Plane-353380.shtml

After searching the Caribbean for a week, Richard Tosaw says he's found the wreckage of Nile Kinnick's fighter plane.

The UI alumnus returned to his home in California on Monday from Port of Spain, Trinidad, confident that one day, he'll truck the 60-year-old Grumman Hellcat to the UI. The first step in realizing that longtime dream is gaining permission from the Venezuelan government to salvage the plane, which lies within five miles of the South American country's territorial waters.

"I've never done something like this before, and I know that bureaucrats can delay work," said the 77-year-old former attorney. "I need someone who can get a decision made. But other than that, I don't foresee too many problems because the government won't care about the plane too much."

Kinnick, a Hawkeye who was awarded Iowa's first and -- so far -- only Heisman Trophy in 1939, died when his plane crashed in the Gulf of Paria during a practice flight in 1943. The UI law student was 24.

Tosaw predicted that his hired salvage expert, Martin Woodward, would use an underwater flotation device similar to a balloon that will drag the plane up 101 feet from the sea floor. Tosaw said he will personally foot the bill for transporting the remains of the craft, which remains buried under 10 feet of sand, back to the UI because it is a sentimental expedition for him.

"It'll just be like transporting a car," he said.

Tosaw's immediate plan is to contact the Venezuelan Embassy to obtain permission to recover the plane. He has yet to determine how much time it would take to complete the excavation. The expedition has so far cost him $10,000.

Steve Parrott, the university's director of University Relations, said he was unclear about the procedure for accepting donations and gifts of such a nature.

The wreckage was located using a global-positioning system by cross-checking coordinates Tosaw procured from the Navy ship USS Lexington.

He initially pursued the search more than 10 years ago but abandoned the project because he thought that salt water had corroded the aluminum plane, rendering it worthless.

Tosaw is aware that some critics find his effort disrespectful to Kinnick, likening it to digging up his grave. According to information Tosaw received from the Navy, Kinnick might have been killed instantly by the crash's impact. It is unknown if any of his remains will be recoverable.

"It's been almost 60 years since his death. He has no surviving relatives except a distant cousin who didn't mind what I was doing when I told him about it," Tosaw said. "Of course, it would be a different story if he had died recently."

Thats fundamentally correct, so far as I know it.
Ive talked to Tosaw's secretary, at length, but
never to Tosaw.

George

[georger 267]

Quote

Quote

Have the indictment of Dan Cooper pulled so he can come in from the cold.

And how would the judicial system deal with the flood of people that would simply claim to have been DB Cooper in order to become rich or go down in history? How would they deal with the delusional ones living out a fantasy life that might actually think they are DB Cooper? [Or those that peddle the notion they know who DB Cooper was?]

----------------------------------------------------

In that regard it might be useful to coin a new term:
The Weber Effect.

One can formulate such an effect easily, from
personal experience in this forum and elsewhere
over the years. Moreover, the effect has concrete
linkage in the work of Max Weber (German
sociologist) but also through the unit of quantum magnetic flux known as the Weber. And a particle may be involved. (This could be a Nobel Prize!) The Weber
Particle and the Weber Effect.

We know an ultra light gas is involved, having the property of being somewhere and nowhere all at
once. We suspect anti mass particles which could
form an atom, of less mass than the hydrogen atom
for periods lasting up to a millisecond or longer, long enough to have an effect!

Space-time would be warped inversely. All clocks
would either cease to move or syncopate locked in
a singular instant of space-time.

The implications of course are profound for anyone
entering such a field and we now believe these fields roam our universe at will. There is where the work of Max Weber takes over in explaining subsequent behavioral soliloquies on the molecular level.

Anyone walking into the Weber Effect is instantly
captured and diverted. Previously rational people
become irrational. Strange preoccupations develop
in spite of counter evidence to the contrary at the
very edge of the Weber Field. Space-time and all
symmetrical reality within the Weber Field are locked inescapably, until such time as the field collapses,
and the field must collapse to regenerate.

Thus, through the Cooperology, a new primary effect
in nature has been documented.

The Weber Effect.

Georger

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

It's funny that Jo is accusing georger of being ex-FBI.

You made your dediuctions on past posts but somethings you couldn't know. Such as when Georger mentions something I never spoke about in this forum or anywhere else - ONLY to Himmelsbach.

So you can add to that - he knows Himmelsbach? Georger is the one who stated the Salt Lake City man as being CIA - not me.

The man sure gets around right?
Note my avatar changed again - I DID NOT want to change it and I usually don't do anything I am told to do. Don't even try to analyze that Snowmman.

I had to take the avatar down - but everyone got a GOOD look at it.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

They seem to think this went beyond test flights (a la 377's version - why spend all that money and not use it?) And this article was printed in 1996... so knowledge of the CIA's flights was out there long before we stumbled on it here

I SCREAMED this at the FBI in 1997 and ever since - but I didn't know where to find the proof - this forum found the proof - at least I have been vindicated in that PART by this forum.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

(I like '62 because of the 727 rollout connection and also because Cooper would have been in his mid 30's then)

I have a REAL old picture that Duane had in his hide things - I never knew what it meant - and these people seem to be family members.

There was a photo posted on the DZ and I just let it ride and I don't even know where to find it. It was a picture of a landing and there was man with glasses on helping with the chute on the ground. When I find the picture Duane had - I will scan it and only focus on this one person. I need for you California guys - to try to remember where you saw that man and what picture I am refering to...at the time I ignored what I thought I was seeing.

Remember I see ghosts and other thing no one else sees...I am the crazy one. So I never said a word.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

Cooper did not ask for a Vector. He just told them go to Mexico.

No Cooper DID NOT scoop up the butts - something the FBI would like to convince the public of since they lost them...T]hey were taken into evidence in Reno with the tie.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[snowmman 3]

I'm just making note of this. File it under the 15 degree flap question.

Skipp Porteous is the president of Sherlock Investigations. He's the guy that got the call from the brother of Christiansen and did the work the brother wanted.

He has a blog, which seems reasonable. Porteous stopped talking about Christiansen after it seemed to go nowhere. Doesn't seem like a liar?

In his blog, it seems like he talked to Rataczak in 2008. This could be bogus, because Rataczak apparently had a severe accident last summer and a long recovery, although he may have been healthy by April this year.

Also, Bill may just have a bad memory by now, since the 15 degree flap thing was in all the papers for a long time in the 70s.

On March 26, 2008 Porteous posted the following, at:

http://www.sherlockinvestigations.com/blog/2008/03/db-coopers-money.html

"I recently talked with Bill Rataczak, the co-pilot of Flight 305, the Boeing 727 that Cooper hijacked. He told me that Cooper insisted that the wing flaps be tilted 15 degrees, to slow the plane down. "He knew that airplane," he said. "A flight attendant wouldn't know to do that." I reminded him that Christiansen was a Northwest mechanic before he became a flight attendant. He said that he didn't know that. He also didn't know that Christiansen was a former paratrooper."

(edit) from http://blog.oregonlive.com/oregonianextra/2007/12/
Carr dismissed because of physical description
"Like McCoy, Christiansen didn't match the physical description. Schaffner and Mucklow said the hijacker was from his mid-40s to 50s, 5 feet 10 to 6 feet 1, 175 to 185 pounds, with brown hair, brown eyes and olive skin. Christiansen was 5-8, 150 pounds and had hazel eyes and a pale complexion."

What's weird is that Carr also dismissed (11/25/07) because of the paratrooper experience?

"Carr has one other reason for discounting Christiansen: his training as a paratrooper. An experienced skydiver wouldn't attempt a jump in the weather conditions that night, which included freezing rain, poor visibility and winds about 15 mph."

[georger 267]

Quote

Quote

It's funny that Jo is accusing georger of being ex-FBI.

You made your dediuctions on past posts but somethings you couldn't know. Such as when Georger mentions something I never spoke about in this forum or anywhere else - ONLY to Himmelsbach.

So you can add to that - he knows Himmelsbach? Georger is the one who stated the Salt Lake City man as being CIA - not me.

The man sure gets around right?
Note my avatar changed again - I DID NOT want to change it and I usually don't do anything I am told to do. Don't even try to analyze that Snowmman.

I had to take the avatar down - but everyone got a GOOD look at it.

I didnt say the subject you photographed at Salt Lake City was CIA. You suggsted that. I said he might be a young Mormon Pioneer; sleeve patch and chevron that applies are attached.

Your new avatar is attached in a new comparison.
Note the height and angle of foreheads as well as
other features.

Georger

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

"In 1971, no civilian knew that a 727 could be flown with the aft stairway extended. But 727's had been used in Vietnam for years to drop agents behind enemy lines. Only the C.I.A. knew this"

You forget - Boeing emploees who designed and made the planes along with the schematics - don't forget that Duane Weber had this information available to him when that plane and others were nothing more than a design on paper.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[georger 267]

Quote

Quote

They seem to think this went beyond test flights (a la 377's version - why spend all that money and not use it?) And this article was printed in 1996... so knowledge of the CIA's flights was out there long before we stumbled on it here

I SCREAMED this at the FBI in 1997 and ever since - but I didn't know where to find the proof - this forum found the proof - at least I have been vindicated in that PART by this forum.

More Weber Effect. All you have been vindicated of
is "saying you are vindicated" which is not the same
as being vindicated, but only one more assertion
on your part you have been vindicated ... more
Weber Effect. Vindication is something you cannot
give yourself. Others must bestow it. Once people
get used to the Weber Effect they will make a
judgement and pronounce vindication, as it is
only someone other than YOU who can crown
yourself with it. Its all part of the Weber Effect.

Im going to put up a short article about the
Weber Effect on Wikipedia. Please consult that article when you need reorientation.

And for the last damnd time, out of my own mouth
(not Tom Kaye's mouth) this time:

I am NOT an FBI agent.
I am NOT a CIA agent.
Never have been and never will be.

But I have been to Chicago to see the elephant!
Damned amazing it was.

Georger

[snowmman 3]

Quote

Quote

"In 1971, no civilian knew that a 727 could be flown with the aft stairway extended. But 727's had been used in Vietnam for years to drop agents behind enemy lines. Only the C.I.A. knew this"

You forget - Boeing emploees who designed and made the planes along with the schematics - don't forget that Duane Weber had this information available to him when that plane and others were nothing more than a design on paper.

I posted some schematics of 727 a while back. Obviously you're not familiar with what kind of info is in what kind of schematic.

For the info you'd want for this jump, it'd more likely be in English in a tech report, then in a drawing.

What exactly would Duane have seen in a picture (schematic)?

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

There were official church programs which required a coat jacket with emblem or insignia.
One of those (in a shared office space in that bldg) were the Mormon Pioneers - but I wont take the time to find the patch on the net. You can do that if it suits you. The use of chevrons along with that
patch denoted level or grade of the wearer. That's just one example of the insignias that were on coats walking around in that building. Some were more conspicuous than others. Some officials wore no insignia at all. Satisfied?

SO, Why did it take so long for you to state that - it is not the same as I have been told, but sounds logical. Bears checking out.
==================

Quote

But you and Duane took trips, investigated people and things publically, Duane operating an antiques business publically ....

So which is it? Under cover or public? Or both?
Im sure you will have an explanation which accommodates both stories.

Duane did not do the Shop until he went out out on disability in 1989. He sold Inusrance from the time I met him in 1977 until 1988.

He was selling insurance as John Collins and after he got out of Jefferson Pen in 1969 as Duane Weber - still don't understand how he ever got the license...state law has always been - ex-cons cannot be licensed.

He wasn't INVESTIGATIING anyone and I will state again - I did not ask or pry into his past. If I did ask a question he gave an answer and quickly made a diversion to another subject - very astute at doing this.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

A composite is a judgement call by the artist and the witnesses. A composite cannot be used for the purpose of comparing a photo of any given witness. This requires the witness to make an identiy by being shown multiple picture of all suspects with unknowns thrown in.

Rose was a composite artist. The Shaffner artist was a TV artist..
Look at the difference in all of the composites and tell me what you are say can be applied with any degree of accuracy. 5 composites and none of them look alike.

The witness making a description from standing while Cooper was seated. Shaffner saw Cooper sitting and she was standing. Tina saw Cooper from that position and also from sitting beside him.

NO DIRECT contact was made FACE to FACE standing - that has been reported (in fact this factor is omitted from all of the witness reports). The angle -view the withesses had of Cooper are very important.

If you take a person whose forehead has a slant to it (as ROSE tried to depict), one will have a dfferent perception as to many different details. Standing face to face is another ball of wax.

I have spoke to Tosaw on 2 or 3 occasions over the yrs. He will return your call and you can buy his book from him.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[Orange1 0]

Quote

In that regard it might be useful to coin a new term:
The Weber Effect.

One can formulate such an effect easily, from
personal experience in this forum and elsewhere
over the years. Moreover, the effect has concrete
linkage in the work of Max Weber (German
sociologist) but also through the unit of quantum magnetic flux known as the Weber. And a particle may be involved. (This could be a Nobel Prize!) The Weber
Particle and the Weber Effect.

We know an ultra light gas is involved, having the property of being somewhere and nowhere all at
once. We suspect anti mass particles which could
form an atom, of less mass than the hydrogen atom
for periods lasting up to a millisecond or longer, long enough to have an effect!

Space-time would be warped inversely. All clocks
would either cease to move or syncopate locked in
a singular instant of space-time.

The implications of course are profound for anyone
entering such a field and we now believe these fields roam our universe at will. There is where the work of Max Weber takes over in explaining subsequent behavioral soliloquies on the molecular level.

Anyone walking into the Weber Effect is instantly
captured and diverted. Previously rational people
become irrational. Strange preoccupations develop
in spite of counter evidence to the contrary at the
very edge of the Weber Field. Space-time and all
symmetrical reality within the Weber Field are locked inescapably, until such time as the field collapses,
and the field must collapse to regenerate.

Thus, through the Cooperology, a new primary effect
in nature has been documented.

The Weber Effect.

Georger

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.