olemisscub 548 #65451 Saturday at 09:04 PM (edited) 1 hour ago, FLYJACK said: I have no problem with that, everybody has stuff they want to keep.. The difference is YOU GUYS call me a liar, afraid and try to smear me when I don't share everything.. A double standard. Nicky has effectively admitted his own hypocrisy... Not a double standard because you seemingly only do this when defending your position in a debate. It’s the Appeal to Privileged Knowledge fallacy. I’m not using this researcher’s privilege to bolster my side in an argument. It’s not a double standard. If I claimed that I can’t share something that would prove my side of a debate is correct, then the two would be analogous. Edited Saturday at 09:06 PM by olemisscub Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FLYJACK 772 #65452 Saturday at 09:16 PM (edited) 34 minutes ago, olemisscub said: Not a double standard because you seemingly only do this when defending your position in a debate. It’s the Appeal to Privileged Knowledge fallacy. I’m not using this researcher’s privilege to bolster my side in an argument. It’s not a double standard. If I claimed that I can’t share something that would prove my side of a debate is correct, then the two would be analogous. It is a double standard,, if I choose to keep stuff private that is my choice whether it is a debate or otherwise. YOU guys trashed me for it.. I wan't debating Nicky when he trashed me for not doing media. Nice try Ryan. I have no problem with other people keeping stuff private because everybody does it and that is their choice.. Absolutely a double standard.. debate or not. Edited Saturday at 09:41 PM by FLYJACK Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FLYJACK 772 #65453 Saturday at 09:24 PM (edited) 1 hour ago, Kamkisky said: The issue is this line of inquiry is it cannot be dispositive. It’s like the quarter Mexican comment…it’s just one person. It could be right or it could be BS. How can it be used to solve the crime? We can discount suspects with good vision or no Mexican ancestry. No, it is not dispositive obviously,, Maybe 90% of the info in this case is not dispositive. However, it has value. The reliability of Alice positively identifying prescription lenses is greater than misidentifying regular lenses. She could be wrong but the likelihood of being correct is higher than her being wrong.. The goal is to find a qualified suspect, that means ticking boxes and inferences, if you go through the files some suspects were noted if they wore prescription sunglasses. Edited Saturday at 09:58 PM by FLYJACK Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nicholas Broughton 78 #65454 Saturday at 11:16 PM (edited) 2 hours ago, olemisscub said: Not a double standard because you seemingly only do this when defending your position in a debate. It’s the Appeal to Privileged Knowledge fallacy. I’m not using this researcher’s privilege to bolster my side in an argument. It’s not a double standard. If I claimed that I can’t share something that would prove my side of a debate is correct, then the two would be analogous. Precisely, apples to oranges. Everyone is entitled to share as much or as little of their research as they wish. I don’t take issue with that. But if you’re going to use that as the reason for not doing media, coupled with an agreement to not discuss the case publicly, when you clearly do so everyday, it’s not satisfactory for me. If I think something doesn’t make sense, It’s my prerogative to call bullshit, just as much as it is for somebody to keep proprietary research under their hat! Edited Saturday at 11:46 PM by Nicholas Broughton Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CooperNWO305 158 #65455 Saturday at 11:31 PM 10 minutes ago, Nicholas Broughton said: Precisely, apples to oranges. Everyone is entitled to share as much or as little of their research as they wish. I don’t take issue with that. But if you’re going to use that as the reason for not doing media, coupled with an agreement to not discuss the case publicly, when you clearly do so everyday, it’s not satisfactory for me. If I think something doesn’t make sense, It’s my prerogative to call bullshit, just as much as it is for somebody to keep proprietary research under their hat! “It’s not satisfactory for me”. What a joke. Who cares what is satisfactory for you? Like you are some court or jury or something. There may very well be more researchers who do not participate than those who do. Some of the better ones rarely comment. Fly and anyone don’t owe any of you guys a thing. If anyone wants to keep their info close, then so be it. Ryan is saving info for a book. Fly is saving info for his reasons. We all do. The Vortex is full of loud mouths and information thieves. Gossipers too. Fly is more successful on a sick day than Nicky has been his whole life. Fly, you must have struck a nerve with Nicky. He’s trying to push you out. Best to just ignore him. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nicholas Broughton 78 #65456 Saturday at 11:46 PM (edited) It’s a repetitive pattern with Fly. Losing debate, uses the privileged info (Flyjack special), then plays victim. You are lying to discredit me, you are bashing and trashing me! Rinse and repeat. I feel bad for the poor folks who play tennis with guy. Edited Saturday at 11:51 PM by Nicholas Broughton Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FLYJACK 772 #65457 Sunday at 12:31 AM (edited) 1 hour ago, Nicholas Broughton said: It’s a repetitive pattern with Fly. Losing debate, uses the privileged info (Flyjack special), then plays victim. You are lying to discredit me, you are bashing and trashing me! Rinse and repeat. I feel bad for the poor folks who play tennis with guy. Ironic, from the guy obsessed and repeatedly lying and attacking me personally. What debate did I lose, Nicky.. What position do you have all figured out that I have wrong. Something must be eating at you. You throw out and hide behind insults because you are incapable of an adult discussion. Edited Sunday at 12:52 AM by FLYJACK Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FLYJACK 772 #65458 Sunday at 12:59 AM 1 hour ago, CooperNWO305 said: “It’s not satisfactory for me”. What a joke. Who cares what is satisfactory for you? Like you are some court or jury or something. There may very well be more researchers who do not participate than those who do. Some of the better ones rarely comment. Fly and anyone don’t owe any of you guys a thing. If anyone wants to keep their info close, then so be it. Ryan is saving info for a book. Fly is saving info for his reasons. We all do. The Vortex is full of loud mouths and information thieves. Gossipers too. Fly is more successful on a sick day than Nicky has been his whole life. Fly, you must have struck a nerve with Nicky. He’s trying to push you out. Best to just ignore him. I don't know what he wants, he is incapable of communicating anything of substance. He seems to think he is the arbiter of Cooper truth.. Does he want me to leave a forum he trashed and rarely used or does he wants me to do some Cooper media and give away all my research... or is he just fronting for others. I think he disagrees with something and can't articulate a counter argument so he just uses insults. Doesn't matter, he is irrelevant. I feel bad for the Cooper people who have to deal with this guy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kamkisky 13 #65459 Monday at 05:09 AM (edited) Michael Cooper says Dan Cooper boarded first. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UPsxHUZEG-A&source_ve_path=MjM4NTE&embeds_referring_euri=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2F&embeds_referring_origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com Thoughts? Edited Monday at 05:11 AM by Kamkisky Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
monk71 3 #65460 Monday at 06:31 AM (edited) 1 hour ago, Kamkisky said: Michael Cooper says Dan Cooper boarded first. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UPsxHUZEG-A&source_ve_path=MjM4NTE&embeds_referring_euri=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2F&embeds_referring_origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com Thoughts? 3:30-5:05 Dan boarded first (consistent with boarding delay?) 6:40 seems to dispute Bill Mitchell sitting behind him (consistent though with Bruce's notes below) 17:58+ no idea he was highjacked?? until seeing a news chyron later Lots of details, but this is 53 years later. Do the 302s have an interview with him? There are many articles online about him. He denies ever speaking to the FBI again over the years. https://www.thedbcooperforum.com/db-cooper/clues-documents-and-evidence-about-the-case/6945/ Edited Monday at 06:35 AM by monk71 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kamkisky 13 #65461 Monday at 06:39 AM 5 minutes ago, monk71 said: 3:30-5:05 Dan boarded first (consistent with boarding delay?) 6:40 seems to dispute Bill Mitchell sitting behind him (consistent though with Bruce's notes below) 17:58+ no idea he was highjacked?? until seeing a news chyron later Lots of details, but this is 53 years later. Do the 302s have an interview with him? There are many articles online about him. He denies ever speaking to the FBI again over the years. https://www.thedbcooperforum.com/db-cooper/clues-documents-and-evidence-about-the-case/6945/ Yeah, it gets more wild with the not knowing even after the FBI interview. I like his approach though, had a few beers before hearing and had another after and went to bed. If you are going to be accused of skyjacking that’s probably the best way. The Mitchell stuff is odd but Bill claims to have jumped onboard right at the end. Maybe Michael missed him. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FLYJACK 772 #65462 Monday at 01:52 PM (edited) 9 hours ago, Kamkisky said: Michael Cooper says Dan Cooper boarded first. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UPsxHUZEG-A&source_ve_path=MjM4NTE&embeds_referring_euri=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2F&embeds_referring_origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com Thoughts? Classic embellishment.. he also said Cooper had the briefcase on the right seat and his right hand on it.. This is stuff from the media.. Michael didn't see.. His story is not what he saw but what he thinks happened many years after the fact. Dan Cooper was probably the second to last to board, possibly last. Edited Monday at 02:11 PM by FLYJACK Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
olemisscub 548 #65463 Monday at 02:16 PM 9 hours ago, Kamkisky said: Michael Cooper says Dan Cooper boarded first. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UPsxHUZEG-A&source_ve_path=MjM4NTE&embeds_referring_euri=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2F&embeds_referring_origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com Thoughts? The wonderful thing about the 302's is we can see which passengers made later embellishments (I'm looking at you Mike Cooper, Larry Feingold, and Jack Almstad). If Cooper had tried to board the plane before any of the other passengers, Flo/Tina/Alice would have remembered that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
olemisscub 548 #65464 Monday at 02:49 PM 53 minutes ago, FLYJACK said: Classic embellishment.. he also said Cooper had the briefcase on the right seat and his right hand on it.. This is stuff from the media.. Michael didn't see.. His story is not what he saw but what he thinks happened many years after the fact. Dan Cooper was probably the second to last to board, possibly last. Don't see any reason not to trust Flo's memory on that considering that she gave this info to the FBI about five hours after the incident. Gregory claims to have been the last to board but I've also heard Bill say that he was last. Not that it's relevant whatsoever. What's interesting to me is that one would think Cooper should have been among the first to board in Portland so he'd have the best choice of seat. Curious what he would have done if the back rows were already occupied when he boarded. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kamkisky 13 #65465 Monday at 03:52 PM (edited) Here’s my concern…I can easily see a passenger who just spent 2.5 hours on a 30 minute final leg (of multiple stops) of a flight telling whoever was in front of them they just want to leave. We look back at it as though those interactions with people (he claims he didn’t know they were even FBI) were the chance to get their full story on the record of this historic case…but some of them could have looked at it as the last in a long line of hassle before finally getting to the person waiting to take them home/destination. The way the FBI collects 302s is also problematic. They should have recorded interviews. I know that was policy but it’s insane. So much is lost and then it’s transcribed by someone else and days later approved by the agent. That’s designed to have info slip through the cracks or get slightly twisted. Edited Monday at 03:54 PM by Kamkisky Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
olemisscub 548 #65466 Monday at 04:55 PM 1 hour ago, Kamkisky said: Here’s my concern…I can easily see a passenger who just spent 2.5 hours on a 30 minute final leg (of multiple stops) of a flight telling whoever was in front of them they just want to leave. We look back at it as though those interactions with people (he claims he didn’t know they were even FBI) were the chance to get their full story on the record of this historic case…but some of them could have looked at it as the last in a long line of hassle before finally getting to the person waiting to take them home/destination. Mike also gave a very lengthy interview to his hometown paper about two days later. He never saw Cooper. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FLYJACK 772 #65467 Monday at 05:06 PM 2 hours ago, olemisscub said: Don't see any reason not to trust Flo's memory on that considering that she gave this info to the FBI about five hours after the incident. Gregory claims to have been the last to board but I've also heard Bill say that he was last. Not that it's relevant whatsoever. What's interesting to me is that one would think Cooper should have been among the first to board in Portland so he'd have the best choice of seat. Curious what he would have done if the back rows were already occupied when he boarded. Flo is probably right,, but Dan Cooper was just another passenger when he boarded and not drawing attention as he did when he was the "hijacker". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kamkisky 13 #65468 Monday at 06:32 PM 1 hour ago, FLYJACK said: Flo is probably right,, but Dan Cooper was just another passenger when he boarded and not drawing attention as he did when he was the "hijacker". Is this a he said she said? Bill doesn’t claim to know when Cooper boarded, just it was before him…correct? Is there anyone else besides Flo making the claim he boarded at the end? Boarding early makes more sense. Michael doesn’t just make a single claim on the point, he makes two. He says Dan tried to board and was rebuffed and then boarded first. Michael is sitting right there. If a stew from inside the plane or on the stairs told Dan something along the lines of hold on/not ready yet/etc Michael would have heard it. I get mixing up a single fact, this would require Michael to fully invent an entire scene that didn’t happen. That’s another level. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
olemisscub 548 #65469 Monday at 07:08 PM (edited) 36 minutes ago, Kamkisky said: Michael doesn’t just make a single claim on the point, he makes two. He says Dan tried to board and was rebuffed and then boarded first. Michael is sitting right there. If a stew from inside the plane or on the stairs told Dan something along the lines of hold on/not ready yet/etc Michael would have heard it. I get mixing up a single fact, this would require Michael to fully invent an entire scene that didn’t happen. That’s another level. There was construction that day at the terminal and 305 couldn't hook up to a jetway at that gate, thus why they had to board up the aft stairs. When it was time to board, they cued up and once they gave their ticket to Williams they walked down a walkway that led to a door which opened up to the tarmac. They then walked a short distance to where Flo was standing at the bottom of the stairs checking their boarding passes. So Mike's scenario doesn't really work in that scenario. That would require Cooper to somehow be OUTSIDE before any other passengers. It's highly unlikely that Williams would have let anyone just walk down the gate ramp and out onto the runway. So I don't see how Cooper gets out there for this interaction to take place and then ends up back into the terminal in the regular cue. Second, that would not have been an interaction that a stew would have forgotten once they realized he was the hijacker and certainly would have ended up being part of their narrative during their testimony. So much has gotten mixed up in the intervening years. For example, many passengers, including Michael Cooper, thought Al Lee was FBI because you'll see them say in interviews that there were FBI agents down by the plane. In hindsight that was a reasonable deduction on their part but it wasn't true. Larry Finegold got something very mixed up and it ended up in Bruce's book and caused a whole bunch of confusion. Larry told Bruce that an FBI agent he knew (Larry was a US attorney, famously) came ONTO THE PLANE and they exchanged a laugh with each other. Well, we know that's not true because there is actual video footage and a photograph of Larry running into this agent he knew (it was Don Steele according to Detlor) and this interaction happened when Larry entered the terminal with the other passengers. You can see Larry in the footage smiling and nodding his head at an agent. So that's a very clear of example of something occurring but being misremembered. I suspect that what Michael Cooper probably saw Hal Williams coming outside to ask Flo if they were ready to let passengers onboard yet. As I said, it was a bit of an ad hoc arrangement due to the gate construction, so as the gate agent Hal would have needed to go outside and talk to someone from the crew at some point. I bet that interaction between Flo and Hal somehow over the decades morphed into this being Cooper. This story doesn't appear until an interview Mike gave in the 2000's. So it's not that these people are inventing things out of whole cloth, but just conflating and misremembering. Although sometimes they absolutely embellish, such as Finegold stating in a media interview in the late 70's that he got a really good look at Cooper and that his law enforcement training as a prosecutor gave him the chops to really take note of the man's appearance. Well, of course, we have Finegold's 302 and he says he never saw the hijacker a single time. Jack Almstad claiming that he cracked a joke with Tina and Cooper while waiting in the aisle for the lavatory doesn't ring particularly true with me either. Edited Monday at 07:09 PM by olemisscub 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kamkisky 13 #65470 Monday at 07:44 PM (edited) 38 minutes ago, olemisscub said: There was construction that day at the terminal and 305 couldn't hook up to a jetway at that gate, thus why they had to board up the aft stairs. When it was time to board, they cued up and once they gave their ticket to Williams they walked down a walkway that led to a door which opened up to the tarmac. They then walked a short distance to where Flo was standing at the bottom of the stairs checking their boarding passes. So Mike's scenario doesn't really work in that scenario. That would require Cooper to somehow be OUTSIDE before any other passengers. It's highly unlikely that Williams would have let anyone just walk down the gate ramp and out onto the runway. So I don't see how Cooper gets out there for this interaction to take place and then ends up back into the terminal in the regular cue. Second, that would not have been an interaction that a stew would have forgotten once they realized he was the hijacker and certainly would have ended up being part of their narrative during their testimony. So much has gotten mixed up in the intervening years. For example, many passengers, including Michael Cooper, thought Al Lee was FBI because you'll see them say in interviews that there were FBI agents down by the plane. In hindsight that was a reasonable deduction on their part but it wasn't true. Larry Finegold got something very mixed up and it ended up in Bruce's book and caused a whole bunch of confusion. Larry told Bruce that an FBI agent he knew (Larry was a US attorney, famously) came ONTO THE PLANE and they exchanged a laugh with each other. Well, we know that's not true because there is actual video footage and a photograph of Larry running into this agent he knew (it was Don Steele according to Detlor) and this interaction happened when Larry entered the terminal with the other passengers. You can see Larry in the footage smiling and nodding his head at an agent. So that's a very clear of example of something occurring but being misremembered. I suspect that what Michael Cooper probably saw Hal Williams coming outside to ask Flo if they were ready to let passengers onboard yet. As I said, it was a bit of an ad hoc arrangement due to the gate construction, so as the gate agent Hal would have needed to go outside and talk to someone from the crew at some point. I bet that interaction between Flo and Hal somehow over the decades morphed into this being Cooper. This story doesn't appear until an interview Mike gave in the 2000's. So it's not that these people are inventing things out of whole cloth, but just conflating and misremembering. Although sometimes they absolutely embellish, such as Finegold stating in a media interview in the late 70's that he got a really good look at Cooper and that his law enforcement training as a prosecutor gave him the chops to really take note of the man's appearance. Well, of course, we have Finegold's 302 and he says he never saw the hijacker a single time. Jack Almstad claiming that he cracked a joke with Tina and Cooper while waiting in the aisle for the lavatory doesn't ring particularly true with me either. This is all very logical, the issue is it could work both ways. How do we know it isn’t Flo conflating things? She could be mixing Dan up with another passenger pre-skyjacking/during boarding. Is it a straight he said/she said? Or is there something else to go on? I struggle with this because Michael’s version makes more sense. Dan would have had the whole time in the terminal to size up those passengers, so there’s no rationale for waiting there and looking for a sky marshal. It also plays into the initial note. I think he writes it after boarding. How would he know on a holiday flight he’d have a middle seat (in an empty row) for the stew to come sit next to him? There’s just no way to predict that until he is on the plane. The backseat reigns supreme in order of priority…Dan would be better off boarding first. That’s the more straightforward assumption. Edited Monday at 07:47 PM by Kamkisky Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 268 #65471 Monday at 08:01 PM (edited) 56 minutes ago, olemisscub said: There was construction that day at the terminal and 305 couldn't hook up to a jetway at that gate, thus why they had to board up the aft stairs. When it was time to board, they cued up and once they gave their ticket to Williams they walked down a walkway that led to a door which opened up to the tarmac. They then walked a short distance to where Flo was standing at the bottom of the stairs checking their boarding passes. So Mike's scenario doesn't really work in that scenario. That would require Cooper to somehow be OUTSIDE before any other passengers. It's highly unlikely that Williams would have let anyone just walk down the gate ramp and out onto the runway. So I don't see how Cooper gets out there for this interaction to take place and then ends up back into the terminal in the regular cue. Second, that would not have been an interaction that a stew would have forgotten once they realized he was the hijacker and certainly would have ended up being part of their narrative during their testimony. So much has gotten mixed up in the intervening years. For example, many passengers, including Michael Cooper, thought Al Lee was FBI because you'll see them say in interviews that there were FBI agents down by the plane. In hindsight that was a reasonable deduction on their part but it wasn't true. Larry Finegold got something very mixed up and it ended up in Bruce's book and caused a whole bunch of confusion. Larry told Bruce that an FBI agent he knew (Larry was a US attorney, famously) came ONTO THE PLANE and they exchanged a laugh with each other. Well, we know that's not true because there is actual video footage and a photograph of Larry running into this agent he knew (it was Don Steele according to Detlor) and this interaction happened when Larry entered the terminal with the other passengers. You can see Larry in the footage smiling and nodding his head at an agent. So that's a very clear of example of something occurring but being misremembered. I suspect that what Michael Cooper probably saw Hal Williams coming outside to ask Flo if they were ready to let passengers onboard yet. As I said, it was a bit of an ad hoc arrangement due to the gate construction, so as the gate agent Hal would have needed to go outside and talk to someone from the crew at some point. I bet that interaction between Flo and Hal somehow over the decades morphed into this being Cooper. This story doesn't appear until an interview Mike gave in the 2000's. So it's not that these people are inventing things out of whole cloth, but just conflating and misremembering. Although sometimes they absolutely embellish, such as Finegold stating in a media interview in the late 70's that he got a really good look at Cooper and that his law enforcement training as a prosecutor gave him the chops to really take note of the man's appearance. Well, of course, we have Finegold's 302 and he says he never saw the hijacker a single time. Jack Almstad claiming that he cracked a joke with Tina and Cooper while waiting in the aisle for the lavatory doesn't ring particularly true with me either. Im dealing with the same kind of 'invention' over at a history site. People dreaming things up or miss-remembering. To make themselves relevant ? To become part of the history? It can get extreme! Like several women reporting their lives at Grant School in 1958 .... turns out they lived in another part of town and went to another grade school so did not even grow up at 'Grant School'! When I pointed this out to one woman she got mad .... people dont like being corrected. Bruce has a bad habit of reporting things before people can even collect their thoughts in order to generate conflict - he did this with Dorwin Schreuder. Once its in the public record it is difficult to undo it, is then repeated endlessly by other media! It takes a generation to undo it! Edited Monday at 08:05 PM by georger Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
olemisscub 548 #65472 Monday at 08:10 PM 22 minutes ago, Kamkisky said: This is all very logical, the issue is it could work both ways. How do we know it isn’t Flo conflating things? She could be mixing Dan up with another passenger pre-skyjacking/during boarding. Is it a straight he said/she said? Or is there something else to go on? I struggle with this because Michael’s version makes more sense. Dan would have had the whole time in the terminal to size up those passengers, so there’s no rationale for waiting there and looking for a sky marshal. It also plays into the initial note. I think he writes it after boarding. How would he know on a holiday flight he’d have a middle seat (in an empty row) for the stew to come sit next to him? There’s just no way to predict that until he is on the plane. The backseat reigns supreme in order of priority…Dan would be better off boarding first. That’s the more straightforward assumption. Yes, I think we all understand why it'd be smart for him to try and board first, but he didn't. And Mike's version doesn't mesh with Cooper's MO: blending in. Wandering out onto the tarmac where a passenger IS NOT supposed to be is a really bad way to draw unwanted attention to yourself. I can't see it. And Flo provides details about seeing Cooper for the first time in her 302. She saw him walking across the tarmac and says she greeted him, checked his ticket, and he was second to last to board. Highly unlikely she'd have had this awkward interaction with him where she sent him back to the terminal and completely forget it just 4 hours later. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kamkisky 13 #65473 Monday at 09:27 PM 1 hour ago, olemisscub said: Yes, I think we all understand why it'd be smart for him to try and board first, but he didn't. And Mike's version doesn't mesh with Cooper's MO: blending in. Wandering out onto the tarmac where a passenger IS NOT supposed to be is a really bad way to draw unwanted attention to yourself. I can't see it. And Flo provides details about seeing Cooper for the first time in her 302. She saw him walking across the tarmac and says she greeted him, checked his ticket, and he was second to last to board. Highly unlikely she'd have had this awkward interaction with him where she sent him back to the terminal and completely forget it just 4 hours later. My assumption is the ticket agent, Hal, wouldn’t let anyone past the gate/him until he releases them all. What does he say about order of boarding? If he was tuned in enough to later tell the FBI he noticed Cooper because he was wearing all black and standing off to the side surely he would remember if Cooper loiters the whole time and comes through the line last (with Bill unseen somewhere behind). Standing off to the side and boarding last draws attention too. I’m just looking for more than a he said/she said. Did Hal mention going to the plane before releasing passengers? These are things he should have been able to recall, they are less subtle and nuanced than a random guy wearing black. Flo was considered one of the worst eyewitnesses. And, we don’t know for sure it would have been Flo telling him to hold on. Maybe it’s Alice? And I can see how with the regular gate not operational they were not operating under normal procedures…that’s when things like letting the passenger go before the stews are ready could happen. There is debate between Bill and other passenger on who boarded last, right? Who is that other passenger…middle aged white guy in a suit? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
olemisscub 548 #65474 Monday at 10:30 PM 1 hour ago, Kamkisky said: Flo was considered one of the worst eyewitnesses. Says who? This is incorrect. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FLYJACK 772 #65475 Monday at 11:42 PM 1 hour ago, olemisscub said: Says who? This is incorrect. Yes, Flo was believed less reliable due to being too emotional,, Mitchell was relied upon more for sketch B. I know you have said she was the best witness, she wasn't considered that by the FBI. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites