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DB Cooper

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  On 6/9/2025 at 3:13 PM, FLYJACK said:

No they didn't get it wrong, this delay myth that has been created and pushed by prominent Cooper researchers for years... it is false and has no evidence to back it up.

In 1971/72 they had more data and access to the crew with two independent analyst getting the same spot. I did another analysis with different data and found it matched 8:11,,, they got it right.. previously I was open to Lewis R to BG, but no it was 8:11. This idea that there was several minutes delay and a BG jump because the FBI was so stupid they didn't understand the difference between an oscillation and a bump is pure nonsense. The bump was the last big extreme oscillation of a rapidly increasing series.

The oscillations increased rapidly and there was an abrupt bump at the end.. no meaningful delay, we are talking seconds not minutes.

Cooper jumped right about 8:11 and do NOT use Cunningham's altered map path times they are wrong.

Nobody has a legit argument evidence based to show Cooper jumped after about 8:11..

 

What alternate data did you analyze that corroborated 8:11? I have seen the extended transcript that shows the full line "cabin rate of climb indicator" so I feel confident they said that at 8:11.  Are you suggesting this was the only communication of the pilots of the pressure bump sensation?

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(edited)

I’ll start here:

“To claim by not giving instructions he didn't want to go the coast is an inversion of logic.“

This is your claim just framed in the negative. My claim is Cooper wanted to go south. That means the plane leaves Seattle and flys south. This is the only direction he ever requested or agreed too. The assumption comes in stating Cooper would have been fine with a coastal route (jumping or not)…that’s your assumption. 
 

You keep saying Cooper didn’t give a path. Yet he repeatedly states and negotiated a path…all south. I think what you mean is Cooper didn’t specify v23, ok. But he didn’t have to. I’ll give an example of why in a second. 
 

Regarding this 150 wide range flying south, to achieve this the crew of 305 would have needed to agree to go mountain top dodging, all of the mountains listed are within the 150 range to the coast. Several significantly closer (like half). To fly south up to 150 miles wide from the coast 305 would be bobbing a weaving through mountains taller than 10k ft. Now…I’m not an aviation expert so maybe this isn’t a problem and they would comfortably do so. But from newbies look it seems problematic to be flying in a dirty configuration, at night in cloud cover, in a jet hovering barely above stall speed while playing pinball with multiple mountains which have unique effects on wind and weather. Maybe I’m wrong…I await an expert aviation person’s opinion.  
 

Back to the stated path…I’m skyjacking in SF. My plan is to jump into the Central Valley of California. I tell them to fly to Denver. They negotiate Salt Lake. I agree if they will fly in my jump configuration the whole way. What have I lost? Zero. My plan is the same. Take off and go west, any other direction and I’m reminding them who has the bomb and we are trying it again. When I see the lights of the next metro west, Sacramento, I know the terrain all around it and I know I can jump into farm land. Notice…I didn’t need to give a victor airway to achieve my exact goal. 

Edited by Kamkisky

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  On 6/9/2025 at 5:14 PM, FunnyStuff said:

What alternate data did you analyze that corroborated 8:11? I have seen the extended transcript that shows the full line "cabin rate of climb indicator" so I feel confident they said that at 8:11.  Are you suggesting this was the only communication of the pilots of the pressure bump sensation?

I am keeping my analysis for my own project.. Cooper could not have jumped after about 8:11.

Everybody knows the crew transcripts.

Soderlind was listening in, they called him several minutes later.. in the suburbs of Portland but had not reached Portland.

The problem is the terminology the bump was an extreme oscillation, they were slight for some time but increased rapidly on the gauge at 8:11 culminating in the "bump" felt by the crew. The bump was not minutes later but the last  extreme oscillation on the gauge in a series.

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  On 6/9/2025 at 5:32 PM, Kamkisky said:

I’ll start here:

“To claim by not giving instructions he didn't want to go the coast is an inversion of logic.“

This is your claim just framed in the negative. My claim is Cooper wanted to go south. That means the plane leaves Seattle and flies south. This is the only direction he ever requested or agreed too. The assumption comes in stating Cooper would have been fine with a coastal route (jumping or not)…that’s your assumption. 
 

You keep saying Cooper didn’t give a path. Yet he repeatedly states and negotiated a path…all south. I think what you mean is Cooper didn’t specify v23, ok. But he didn’t have to. I’ll give an example of why in a second. 
 

Regarding this 150 wide range flying south, to achieve this the crew of 305 would have needed to agree to go mountain top dodging, all of the mountains listed are within the 150 range to the coast. Several significantly closer (like half). To fly south up to 150 miles wide from the coast 305 would be bobbing a weaving through mountains taller than 10k ft. Now…I’m not an aviation expert so maybe this isn’t a problem and they would comfortably do so. But from newbies look it seems problematic to be flying in a dirty configuration, at night in cloud cover, in a jet hovering barely above stall speed while playing pinball with multiple mountains which have unique effects on wind and weather. Maybe I’m wrong…I await an expert aviation person’s opinion.  
 

Back to the stated path…I’m skyjacking in SF. My plan is to jump into the Central Valley of California. I tell them to fly to Denver. They negotiate Salt Lake. I agree if they will fly in my jump configuration the whole way. What have I lost? Zero. My plan is the same. Take off and go west, any other direction and I’m reminding them who has the bomb and we are trying it again. When I see the lights of the next metro west, Sacramento, I know the terrain all around it and I know I can jump into farm land. Notice…I didn’t need to give a victor airway to achieve my exact goal. 

He did not request south... He requested Mexico then Reno, the plane can take a coastal route to those places... they can even take a land route to SF or LA. He said those airports were too big, no reason not to say he didn't want to go over the water or must take a land route. But, he never said that for Mexico or Reno.

It isn't mountain top dodging in southern Wa.. you can draw a line about 150 across at that point from the Eastern mountains out to the ocean. The plane could have been anywhere along that line. Just V23 was 10 miles wide.

I don't think you actually understand the dynamics here.

To fly to Mexico or Reno they can take a coastal route and they actually considered it.. Cooper said nothing..  end of debate. You have no actual argument.

Find an elevation map for southern WA/OR then draw a horizontal line from off the coast East to the mountains,, it is actually over a 150 mile corridor than the plane could have taken..,,,

Edited by FLYJACK

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  On 6/9/2025 at 5:39 PM, FLYJACK said:

He did not request south... He requested Mexico then Reno, the plane can take a coastal route to those places... they can even take a land route to SF or LA.

It isn't mountain top dodging in southern Wa.. you can draw a line about 150 across at that point form the Eastern mountains out to the ocean.

I don't think you actually understand the dynamics here.

To fly to Mexico or Reno they can take a coastal route and they actually considered it.. end of debate. You have no argument.

 

Because NWO discussed a coast route means Cooper would have been ok with it. Does that make logical sense? Of course not.

The pilots considered going out the front window too. Maybe Cooper considered sticking his pistol in the cowboy’s face. Lots of people considered doing lots of things..so what?  
 

The fact is everything Cooper stated or agreed to is south. That’s irrefutable. Sure, you could fly east first and then south, or west first and then south. They could have flown north out of Seattle too, anything could have happened. What did happen is Cooper stating the plane is to leave Seattle and go to southern destinations, it did. He then jumps at the first sign of civilization, into perfect farmland. 
 

Also, I’m lost on your geography. All these mountains are under 150 miles from the coast. 

Edited by Kamkisky

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  On 6/9/2025 at 5:52 PM, Kamkisky said:

Because NWO discussed a coast route means Cooper would have been ok with it. Does that make logical sense? Of course not.

The pilots considered going out the front window too. Maybe Cooper considered sticking his pistol in the cowboys face. Lots of people considered doing lots of things..so what?  
 

The fact is everything Cooper stated or agreed to is south. That’s irrefutable. Sure, you could fly east first and then south, or west first and then south. They could have flown north out of Seattle too, anything could have happened. What did happen is Cooper stating the plane is to leave Seattle and go southern destinations, it did. He then jumps at the first sign of civilization, into perfect farmland. 

No, that is not the point, you are straw manning, they discussed a coastal path so it was a legitimate route for the plane. You kept denying this.. claiming some specific path from Cooper,, you are wrong.

I have been arguing that the plane's path options to Mexico/Reno was very wide and Cooper had no foreknowledge or input for that path taken. He did not say don't go over the water or take V23,, his jump was not targeted. He did not care about the path. So, why would he then care about a coastal route to SF/LA.. or making up an excuse.

He said they were too big,, that is the reason.

 

 

 

 

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  On 6/9/2025 at 6:01 PM, FLYJACK said:

No, that is not the point, you are straw manning, they discussed a coastal path so it was a legitimate route for the plane. You kept denying this.. claiming some specific path from Cooper,, you are wrong.

I have been arguing that the plane's path options to Mexico/Reno was very wide and Cooper had no foreknowledge or input for that path taken. He did not say don't go over the water or take V23,, his jump was not targeted. He did not care about the path. So, why would he then care about a coastal route to SF/LA.. or making up an excuse.

He said they were too big,, that is the reason.

 

 

 

 

“No, that is not the point, you are straw manning, they discussed a coastal path so it was a legitimate route for the plane. You kept denying this.. claiming some specific path from Cooper,, you are wrong.“

It’s a legit route for *the plane* under normal circumstances. Does that mean *Cooper* would have agreed to going west and down the coast? Again, it clearly does not. Thinking Cooper accepts a coastal route is the assumption. 

Edited by Kamkisky

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  On 6/9/2025 at 5:14 PM, FunnyStuff said:

What alternate data did you analyze that corroborated 8:11? I have seen the extended transcript that shows the full line "cabin rate of climb indicator" so I feel confident they said that at 8:11.  Are you suggesting this was the only communication of the pilots of the pressure bump sensation?

The FBI documented the jump time as 8:11 PM PST within a couple of days of the hijacking.  There is no "alternate data" to the contrary.

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  On 6/9/2025 at 6:11 PM, Kamkisky said:

“No, that is not the point, you are straw manning, they discussed a coastal path so it was a legitimate route for the plane. You kept denying this.. claiming some specific path from Cooper,, you are wrong.“

It’s a legit route for *the plane* under normal circumstances. Does that mean *Cooper* would agreed to going west and down the coast? Again, it clearly does not. Thinking Cooper accepts a coastal route is the assumption. 

No, 

A coastal route for the Mex/Reno route was a legit option. FACT

Cooper never gave any input for a route other than Mex/Reno. FACT

A coastal route for the SF/LA route was a legit option. FACT

Cooper said SF/LA was too "big" correction. FACT

 

Conclusion Cooper did not care about the route.. 

Why, because he wasn't jumping, during the negotiations he was going to be on the plane for refuelling but after Reno was in play he decided to jump early..

This theory is solid, it explains everything.

You won't get it if you still think Cooper targeted his LZ, he didn't, impossible.

 

Edited by FLYJACK

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  On 6/9/2025 at 6:20 PM, Robert99 said:

The FBI documented the jump time as 8:11 PM PST within a couple of days of the hijacking.  There is no "alternate data" to the contrary.

I would say the full transcript that lists the line "cabin rate of climb indicator", the fact frequency was known to be down, the fact that we know a call was made by phone patch, and the fact there's no record currently available to us of the crew directly reporting the pressure bump sensation are all data points "to the contrary". 

I respect FlyJack's opinion on this since he apparently has other data he says corroborates an 8:11 jump time but I can't say I agree with this stance until Iearn more about that data myself.  Unless I learn more details about this I don't think I can get behind a jump at 8:11 based on the facts available to us.

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There's a major dick measuring contest brewing in the FB group over claims the particulate makeup on the tie is actually finger print powder.  Did they fingerprint the tie?  It looks like that would probably never happen to a piece of fabric + the 302 on the fingerprinting doesn't mention the tie.505808897_10109370256163396_1560486433788829900_n.jpg.f4c911b63f1a8059697ab94fab1a464f.jpg505857350_10109370263164366_3484970233730457792_n.jpg.404df2777beb2b535c7f17d1e1adb714.jpg

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  On 6/9/2025 at 6:33 PM, FLYJACK said:

No, 

A coastal route for the Mex/Reno route was a legit option. FACT

Cooper never gave any input for a route other than Mex/Reno. FACT

A coastal route for the SF/LA route was a legit option. FACT

Cooper said SF/LA was too small. FACT

 

Conclusion Cooper did not care about the route.. 

Why, because he wasn't jumping, during the negotiations he was going to be on the plane for refuelling but after Reno was in play he decided to jump early..

This theory is solid, it explains everything.

You won't get it if you still think Cooper targeted his LZ, he didn't, impossible.

 

A coastal route for the Mex/Reno route was a legit option. FACT —— Yes, it’s a legit route for the plane to fly. Cooper thinking it was legit for his purposes is an assumption. Cooper agreeing to it is the counter factual you are just sliding into the factual. He never agreed to that AND he didn’t complain when they went south. 
 

Cooper never gave any input for a route other than Mex/Reno. FACT —- Yes, both south (Yuma too). That’s the input. It’s all the input he needed to give. 
 

A coastal route for the SF/LA route was a legit option. FACT —- Again, yes for the plane, it is an assumption that Cooper would have accepted a coastal route. 
 

Cooper said SF/LA was too small. FACT —-You meant to big and yes, but so what? They went over numerous airports, he was by definition going to have to deny some for some reason.  
 

I’m still struggling to live in your theory. Cooper doesn’t initially care about the route because he isn’t going to jump early but go straight to Mexico first. Ok. Got it to this point. Then, for some reason -you have stated miscommunication- Cooper agrees to abandon Mexico and go to Reno. Once Reno is agreed to he decides it’s better to just jump before Reno (good thing he wasn’t on the coast route ehh). Cooper then jumps at random.
 

Here’s what I don’t get…why did Cooper give up on Mexico so easy and allow himself to be forced into a new plan that forces him to do a random jump in Washington (long ways from his initial goal of Mexico)? Cooper knew the plane had fuel. He knew the plane could make it to Mexico. He has the money. He has the chutes. Cooper can utter one sentence and the final piece of his initial plan happens and they go to Mexico. My question to you is simple…why doesn’t he utter that sentence? 

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  On 6/9/2025 at 6:49 PM, FunnyStuff said:

There's a major dick measuring contest brewing in the FB group over claims the particulate makeup on the tie is actually finger print powder.  Did they fingerprint the tie?  It looks like that would probably never happen to a piece of fabric + the 302 on the fingerprinting doesn't mention the tie.505808897_10109370256163396_1560486433788829900_n.jpg.f4c911b63f1a8059697ab94fab1a464f.jpg505857350_10109370263164366_3484970233730457792_n.jpg.404df2777beb2b535c7f17d1e1adb714.jpg

They might have,, who knows,, some of those particles do match fingerprint powder. Polyester fabric can be fingerprinted but no idea if they did.

They did check the tie for bodily fluids..  

Another concern is contamination in storage or handling.

The tie is a mess..

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  On 6/9/2025 at 7:23 PM, FLYJACK said:

They might have,, who knows,, some of those particles do match fingerprint powder. Polyester fabric can be fingerprinted but no idea if they did.

They did check the tie for bodily fluids..  

Another concern is contamination in storage or handling.

The tie is a mess..

I'm still early in looking at the rescan posted by TK which does show alot more oxygen in the Ti particles (could be titanium dioxide which is much more common) than the first scans.  If this data set even closely mirrors the first scans then I can't see a reasonable path for FBI storage or handling contaminating it.

If there was fingerprinting done on the tie I feel confident it would have been disclosed in the 302s.

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  On 6/9/2025 at 6:49 PM, Kamkisky said:

A coastal route for the Mex/Reno route was a legit option. FACT —— Yes, it’s a legit route for the plane to fly. Cooper thinking it was legit for his purposes is an assumption. Cooper agreeing to it is the counter factual you are just sliding into the factual. He never agreed to that AND he didn’t complain when they went south. 
 

Cooper never gave any input for a route other than Mex/Reno. FACT —- Yes, both south (Yuma too). That’s the input. It’s all the input he needed to give. 
 

A coastal route for the SF/LA route was a legit option. FACT —- Again, yes for the plane, it is an assumption that Cooper would have accepted a coastal route. 
 

Cooper said SF/LA was too small. FACT —-You meant to big and yes, but so what? They went over numerous airports, he was by definition going to have to deny some for some reason.  
 

I’m still struggling to live in your theory. Cooper doesn’t initially care about the route because he isn’t going to jump early but go straight to Mexico first. Ok. Got it to this point. Then, for some reason -you have stated miscommunication- Cooper agrees to abandon Mexico and go to Reno. Once Reno is agreed to he decides it’s better to just jump before Reno (good thing he wasn’t on the coast route ehh). Cooper then jumps at random.
 

Here’s what I don’t get…why did Cooper give up on Mexico so easy and allow himself to be forced into a new plan that forces him to do a random jump in Washington (long ways from his initial goal of Mexico)? Cooper knew the plane had fuel. He knew the plane could make it to Mexico. He has the money. He has the chutes. Cooper can utter one sentence and the final piece of his initial plan happens and they go to Mexico. My question to you is simple…why doesn’t he utter that sentence? 

You lost me.. I don't even know what your argument is...

You are making bizarre claims,, I never said or assumed he agreed to anything.. the key is he never made any attempt to support or reject any path.. he did not care, so your idea is that suddenly he cared about the coast for SF/LA but not Mex/Reno, it makes no sense.

Yes, I meant SF/LA was too big.. for him to reject them based on it being too big means that he was thinking about being on the plane when it landed, the coastal argument doesn't fly, at that point in the negotiation. He decided to jump early to avoid being on the plane for refuelling, so the only change was landing. He also changed his demand to airstairs lowered on takeoff. Cooper doesn't abandon Mexico, the plane would have had to refuel in Mexico... he gets scared about being on the plane when it lands in the US, if he gets rushed with a fake bomb he is a dead man. If the bomb is real he is a dead man.

We don't know exactly what was said to Cooper about the limited range, but he did suggest other airports close to the border.

Another tell is the knapsack,, why didn't he demand the proper knapsack, same issue; instead of being forceful he just adapted.. 

For whatever reason he felt more confident jumping randomly in the PNW. than being on the plane in Reno and potentially getting rushed. Even landing for fuel in Mexico increases the risk.

He had the chutes, the money and the opportunity to go early. I think this is one of the reasons why he wasn't caught.. he adapted. 

because you or somebody else might have acted differently doesn't negate the theory.

 

 

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  On 6/9/2025 at 7:30 PM, FunnyStuff said:

I'm still early in looking at the rescan posted by TK which does show alot more oxygen in the Ti particles (could be titanium dioxide which is much more common) than the first scans.  If this data set even closely mirrors the first scans then I can't see a reasonable path for FBI storage or handling contaminating it.

If there was fingerprinting done on the tie I feel confident it would have been disclosed in the 302s.

I don't think we will ever know..  there have been things happen that we didn't get in the FBI files...  like the Benzedrine.

If these particles are in the knot area that indicates finger touch,, if an agent was handling other evidence that was fingerprinted then grabbed the tie by the knot that could easily transfer particles.  I am sure there is some contamination on that tie, figuring out which particles is impossible..

The take away from the new particle analysis IMO just supports an electronics environment.

 

Edited by FLYJACK

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  On 6/9/2025 at 3:52 PM, FLYJACK said:

Interesting,,

So, Ryan was wrong as usual when he claimed Hahneman did not have to stop for fuel. He did and he chose New Orleans.

Then Ryan suggests in a bizarre abuse of logic that because he didn't refuel in the Caribbean that he isn't Cooper. Let's leave that one aside for now.

Two things, to go to the Caribbean first they would be going way out over the Atlantic Ocean.. to New Orleans was over land,, and the southern Caribbean was about as far as Honduras.. 

The runways in the Caribbean were very short but some operators did fly 727's in there.

This is where it gets interesting,, although 727's could land on short runways it depends on some variable.. the model, the engine configuration, elevation, flap settings as some were blocked off for safety. Eastern flew 727's in there but only planes equipped with front brakes.

So, it isn't a given that any or all 727's could land on those short Caribbean runways.

After takeoff from New Orleans he had the plane fly East then South across the Gulf of Mexico minimizing the distance over the water. Yes, a parachuting hijacker flew over the water.

IMO, having a gun and a fake bomb vs only a real/fake bomb makes all the difference. 

If the plane is rushed a real/fake bomb only is an automatic death.. a gun gives you some distance and defence..

 

 

Everything you do in this case is tainted by your belief that lil Bill Hahneman, the biggest fruitcake of the canonical copycats, was Cooper. You’re not an objective researcher. You already have a conclusion in your head and so any analysis you do on the evidence of this case is colored through that perspective. 

And I’m not wrong. They could have easily made Honduras without refueling on a regular 727 and they DEFINITELY could have found somewhere to refuel outside the U.S. 

Bottom line is that Hahneman wasn’t afraid of refueling in the U.S. It was even his own suggestion. Yet you’ve spent the past five pages arguing a theory that relies on Cooper being so afraid of refueling in America that he throws his plan in the trash and jumps ASAP. The Cooper in your theory is not Hahneman. 

Hell, even if they DID have to refuel to make it to Honduras from DC, then why didn’t the uber genius Hahneman hijack in Atlanta or Miami or New Orleans to begin with? 

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  On 6/9/2025 at 7:54 PM, FLYJACK said:

You lost me.. I don't even know what your argument is...

You are making bizarre claims,, I never said or assumed he agreed to anything.. the key is he never made any attempt to support or reject any path.. he did not care, so your idea is that suddenly he cared about the coast for SF/LA but not Mex/Reno, it makes no sense.

Yes, I meant SF/LA was too big.. for him to reject them based on it being too big means that he was thinking about being on the plane when it landed, the coastal argument doesn't fly, at that point in the negotiation. He decided to jump early to avoid being on the plane for refuelling, so the only change was landing. He also changed his demand to airstairs lowered on takeoff. Cooper doesn't abandon Mexico, the plane would have had to refuel in Mexico... he gets scared about being on the plane when it lands in the US, if he gets rushed with a fake bomb he is a dead man. If the bomb is real he is a dead man.

We don't know exactly what was said to Cooper about the limited range, but he did suggest other airports close to the border.

Another tell is the knapsack,, why didn't he demand the proper knapsack, same issue; instead of being forceful he just adapted.. 

For whatever reason he felt more confident jumping randomly in the PNW. than being on the plane in Reno and potentially getting rushed. Even landing for fuel in Mexico increases the risk.

He had the chutes, the money and the opportunity to go early. I think this is one of the reasons why he wasn't caught.. he adapted. 

because you or somebody else might have acted differently doesn't negate the theory.

 

 

“Cooper knew the plane had fuel. He knew the plane could make it to Mexico. He has the money. He has the chutes. Cooper can utter one sentence and the final piece of his initial plan happens and they go to Mexico. My question to you is simple…why doesn’t he utter that sentence? “
 

I’m almost with you but I’m still not seeing the answer to this. Why doesn’t Cooper complete his plan? One sentence away…

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  On 6/9/2025 at 6:45 PM, FunnyStuff said:

I would say the full transcript that lists the line "cabin rate of climb indicator", the fact frequency was known to be down, the fact that we know a call was made by phone patch, and the fact there's no record currently available to us of the crew directly reporting the pressure bump sensation are all data points "to the contrary". 

I respect FlyJack's opinion on this since he apparently has other data he says corroborates an 8:11 jump time but I can't say I agree with this stance until Iearn more about that data myself.  Unless I learn more details about this I don't think I can get behind a jump at 8:11 based on the facts available to us.

Oh my!  What do you mean by "the frequency was known to be down"?  What are you talking about?

You need to take a look at the 17 pages of information that the FBI sent to Sluggo about 2009.  Plus the brief text print outs of the ARINC messages in the Portland/Seattle area.  All of this information is available on this site, or at least it was before the move.

The FBI said in 1971 that the jump time was 8:11 PM and you can take that number to the bank.  Anyone who thinks it was just discovered last week didn't do their homework.

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  On 6/9/2025 at 8:18 PM, Kamkisky said:

“Cooper knew the plane had fuel. He knew the plane could make it to Mexico. He has the money. He has the chutes. Cooper can utter one sentence and the final piece of his initial plan happens and they go to Mexico. My question to you is simple…why doesn’t he utter that sentence? “
 

I’m almost with you but I’m still not seeing the answer to this. Why doesn’t Cooper complete his plan? One sentence away…

Like I said we don't know what the crew said to him about range.. we don't know if he understood the error..  Did the crew say hey, if we don't fly dirty all the way we can make it to Mexico.. he would have said OK don't fly dirty all the way.. For whatever reason Cooper deferred to the crew..

This is still a theory I can't prove it but it explains everything. Why Cooper decided to jump and not demand to go Mexico is not knowable. It is really impossible to put yourself in his position..   

But his primary plan is not to go to Mexico but get the money and get away with it. If he felt jumping early achieved that and he hasn't been caught then he made the right decision.

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  On 6/9/2025 at 8:01 PM, FLYJACK said:

I don't think we will ever know..  there have been things happen that we didn't get in the FBI files...  like the Benzedrine.

If these particles are in the knot area that indicates finger touch,, if an agent was handling other evidence that was fingerprinted then grabbed the tie by the knot that could easily transfer particles.  I am sure there is some contamination on that tie, figuring out which particles is impossible..

The take away from the new particle analysis IMO just supports an electronics environment.

 

I can 100% get behind the electronics fit.  Lots of large percentage gold + palladium and a decent count of particles containing potential solders.  There remains guaranteed alluminum alloy fragments and lots of iron rust and mischmetal as well though. 

The Ti is the biggest swing I think from the old data.  The old stuff had much less oxygen related to the Ti.  The new scan has the biggest Ti beak between 20-35% oxygen so it's still less than a perfect match for titanium dioxide.  I don't know enough on the scanning process and reliability but if +/-5 to 10% oxygen is considered reasonable then most of the Ti is likely just TiO2 and could be any number of things such as paint pigment.

There's also one particle nearly totaly made up of uranium but I'm sure we shouldn't put too much stock into it as it's such a small sample.

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  On 6/9/2025 at 8:55 PM, FunnyStuff said:

I can 100% get behind the electronics fit.  Lots of large percentage gold + palladium and a decent count of particles containing potential solders.  There remains guaranteed alluminum alloy fragments and lots of iron rust and mischmetal as well though. 

The Ti is the biggest swing I think from the old data.  The old stuff had much less oxygen related to the Ti.  The new scan has the biggest Ti beak between 20-35% oxygen so it's still less than a perfect match for titanium dioxide.  I don't know enough on the scanning process and reliability but if +/-5 to 10% oxygen is considered reasonable then most of the Ti is likely just TiO2 and could be any number of things such as paint pigment.

There's also one particle nearly totaly made up of uranium but I'm sure we shouldn't put too much stock into it as it's such a small sample.

I have been an electronics person since Tom said Tektronix way back,, maybe not Tektronix exactly but something close or similar to it.. 

I went through all the particles and it fits electronics.. the uniqueness of the tie isn't in one or two odd particles but the wide profile. 

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  On 6/9/2025 at 8:09 PM, olemisscub said:

Everything you do in this case is tainted by your belief that lil Bill Hahneman, the biggest fruitcake of the canonical copycats, was Cooper. You’re not an objective researcher. You already have a conclusion in your head and so any analysis you do on the evidence of this case is colored through that perspective. 

And I’m not wrong. They could have easily made Honduras without refueling on a regular 727 and they DEFINITELY could have found somewhere to refuel outside the U.S. 

Bottom line is that Hahneman wasn’t afraid of refueling in the U.S. It was even his own suggestion. Yet you’ve spent the past five pages arguing a theory that relies on Cooper being so afraid of refueling in America that he throws his plan in the trash and jumps ASAP. The Cooper in your theory is not Hahneman. 

Hell, even if they DID have to refuel to make it to Honduras from DC, then why didn’t the uber genius Hahneman hijack in Atlanta or Miami or New Orleans to begin with? 

You are wrong, for safety planes don't fly close to their max and the plane made a big loop over Honduras to land in Mexico. Simply measuring the direct distance is not accurate. A rough estimate is 10-15% less than max range. The early 727-200's range was about 1900 miles. Less 15% = 1615 miles in ideal conditions. A direct flight from Dulles to Honduras is about 1750.. So, YES YOU ARE WRONG they needed a fuel stop.. 

Another poor assumption.

Why ABE Airport, because it was less secure. Most hijackings were to Cuba and from the South East with higher security. Smarter to pic ABE.

Another poor assumption.

As for the required refuelling stop, he chose New Orleans, I don't know why I can only speculate. He could have picked another location. 

Emotional/familiar.. He had lived in New Orleans, his father died and was buried there. Last goodbye..

Practical.. He went to New Orleans over land.. the Caribbean was over the Atlantic and it is questionable whether that 727 could safely land there.. 

Safety,, He had a gun and a fake bomb.. Cooper only had a fake/real bomb... Having a gun grants a higher level of protection from getting stormed, if Cooper was stormed in Reno he was a dead man fake or real bomb.

Experience,, If Hahneman was Cooper he was more experienced the second time. Whoever Cooper was it was his first hijacking and his decisions would be different.

X factor,, He just adapted.

 

But you are wrong, Hahneman landing in New Orleans does not prove he isn't Cooper. There can be a perfectly good reason for it, we will never know for sure.

Also, hijacking from ABE doesn't prove he isn't Cooper.

In fact, nothing you have ever claimed about Hahneman proves he isn't Cooper.. funny because you are adamant he can't be Cooper with no proof.

You have an irrational bias.. I am the objective one.

 

He is #1 in your matrix after all. You can admit it, nobody will laugh at you.

 

 

 

 

 

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  On 6/9/2025 at 8:30 PM, Robert99 said:

Oh my!  What do you mean by "the frequency was known to be down"?  What are you talking about?

You need to take a look at the 17 pages of information that the FBI sent to Sluggo about 2009.  Plus the brief text print outs of the ARINC messages in the Portland/Seattle area.  All of this information is available on this site, or at least it was before the move.

The FBI said in 1971 that the jump time was 8:11 PM and you can take that number to the bank.  Anyone who thinks it was just discovered last week didn't do their homework.

Surprising to see you put so much faith in the FBI considering that you believe in the western flightpath. Those same documents, all of which are on my website, support the idea that they were strictly following V-23.

I’m not arguing against an 8:11 time, as I’ve begun to independently see the merit of that time. I’m just surprised that you would appeal to authority on the jump time but not on the location of the plane.

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I checked a bunch of current flights from Seattle to SF and Seattle to LA.. and none went out over the Ocean.. some went close to Red Bluff just as NORJAK did before heading to Reno.. The anti coastal claim is dead.. He didn't want a large airport for refuelling.

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