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DB Cooper

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here's a funny trivia:

when they evac'ed Vietnam in '75, they supposedly blew up millions of dollars at the DAO compound?
(edit) Actually just noticed it doesn't say US dollars. But the vietnamese currency wasn't called dollars. Who knows what they blew up.

http://www.scarface-usmc.org/1975_the_evacuation.htm

After considerable political prevarication, Operation 'Frequent Wind' got underway on the afternoon of 29 April with the insertion of a Marine security force to guard the principal extraction site at the Defense Attaché’s Office (DAO) compound, adjacent to Tan Son Nhut airfield. The evacuation proceeded smoothly, although not without incident, as frantic refugees clambered aboard the helicopters.

By 2100 hours the evacuation was complete at the DAO compound, and after the complex (including millions of dollars in currency) had been destroyed with explosives, the last two CH-53S lifted off at 0012 on 30"

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Ergo, your serial numbers get lost in Asia...



Interesting! Are there any studies about dwell time of US currency abroad, especially in SE Asia? Does it just recirculate endlessly in country or does it come back to the US?

Just ONE undamaged Cooper bill in SE Asia or anywhere would sure get my blood pressure up. Bet the serial numbers were not widely published in SE Asia. The bills probably could have been spent without much fear of detection.

377


I'm meant to be sleeping :|

There must be work on it by the Federal Reserve somewhere, I'll check their site tomorrow. It was a major issue in Lat Am, I know that. If I think of Zimbabwe as an example - dollar bills are basically used till they are falling apart. Very few dollars that find their way into the hands of the general population there will ever get back to the US.

Edit: they get back to the US when they get back into the commercial banking system and are either used to pay for imports, or when the bills are old and need to be exchanged. I'll also need to look into how dollarized the system was - Snow has said Vietnamese could deposit USD at banks, but if things go pearshaped you want your USD under your mattress.
Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

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Remember that one FBI agent who gave an urgent pre 911 warning about a suspected plot to hijack airliners and crash them into NY bldgs? He was completely igonored. Wonder if there were FBI agents in 71 who had some good ideas about Cooper and who were ignored? If you were not assigned to the case I wonder what the FBI culture says about butting in or even expressing your opinions through official channels?

377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

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(edit) http://books.google.com/books?id=24FWc5grhRMC&pg=PA467&lpg=PA467&dq=blew+up+dollars+DAO+vietnam&source=web&ots=PstYJIKvdb&sig=l6dtF0a_jgOzoDsNWsFNsru5RtI&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=4&ct=result
puts the amount at >$3.5 million, in barrels. Elsewhere, $16 million in gold reserves was left in Saigon?

This guy was at the DAO compound when they were placing explosives, during the Saigon evac

http://www.fallofsaigon.org/dao.htm

"Prior to the evacuation, some personnel from the Embassy came out and were tasked with the job of destroying millions of dollars in American currency. "

(edit) there is always good trivia in firsthand reports:

"It was around 1630 on the evening of 28 April that everything came apart. We were all going about doing our respective tasks when A37 Dragonflys flew over and proceeded to bomb the airport. Their first targets were the command center and the tower, which they took out quite well.

There were concrete structures near us that served as shelters and everyone that was in the area ran to get inside these.

During a lull in the attack I noticed that we were sharing our shelter with a Vietnamese dog handler and his dog. In the confines of this shelter the dog seemed huge, it provided us with a light moment in a time of stress.

I knew that the NVA didn’t have any A37’s, so the question was what was going on. After the bombing of the Presidential Palace a few weeks before, it became apparent that either more VNAF pilots had deserted, or the planes had been captured by the NVA."

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Are you sure about this? Aside from the federal Stolen Valor Act criminalizing false claims of military service and awards, I am unaware of any law dictating who can wear thesundefined "chevrons" on their sleeve.



As I said it was this one guy out of several who said that and I am waiting for an official answer, but won't have one until Mid January.
===================

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Could be a choir or band uniform or even a hotel doorman's uniform. Why pick such an exotic and heroic explanation when the most likely one is mundane?



Band uniform was what I said when I first showed the picture with the face blacked out.. I also suggested doorman or some kind or guide for the LDS. I didn't pick anything - it is just what the man told me.
========================


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And Jo, you really should give Sluggo a green light to post the scans. When you try to control the flow of information it just makes it appear that you wish to suppress evidence that argues against your Duane is Cooper theory. Let someone besides you interpret the evidence you claim to have. Let go a bit and see where unobstructed peer review takes things. Scientists do it all the time with the results of their research . You should too... otherwise you are making the classic cold fusion mistake.



I don't remember all the things he copied and he has not been in contact with me - guess he is busy with moving and a new job. I have already stated that he needs to correct information he posted that was not accurate. When that happens we will talk about other things...but, I am not one to let error ride as truths when it came from information I supplied. As you know it always comes back on me that I said that or this when it was someone else.

Such as this Orchard thing - it did not happen. It is someone else interperting what I said in part and then it comes back posted as what I said.
====================

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You might not like his conclusions on your Duane evidence but at least let him make them. Give Sluggo some leash Jo, and stop kicking him. What are you thinking? You are already short on friends here.



I don't mind the conclusions - but when it comes to dates and facts and data that supposedly came from me being incorrect - I have to draw a line - too many people have done that already...and that discredits me more than when I theorize like everyone else.

Sorry if I have few friends here, but you have to realize they have an agenda also, I don't go to Sluggo's site because I can't see the pics - and when errors are made about facts I feel like someone is screeching chalk across the board.

Orange brought the Daniel Cooper thing up and I found a Dan Cooper - remember?. I haven't been able to find Orange's Daniel Cooper in other records - the ones that give more detail than the file Orange found.

I may have missed it, but I only have one eye I can see out of right now. I am wondering if it isn't the same Daniel Cooper the brother claimed was Cooper in Texas. Wasn't that Dan Cooper back in the states for awhile before he died? For some reason I can't make the story on that guy stick in my mind and have to look it up every time.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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Jo... stop looking at that Daniel Cooper. (There are records that give more detail by the way, and there is even a link as to where to find them from the site I posted here.) It seems pretty clear from the records he died in Vietnam, even if they have not found his remains. You missed a big part of the point of me telling that particular story, but never mind. Happy Christmas.

In the spirit of Christmas I'll not address any of the other points in your post, save to say that you currently only have 2 people defending you, but if you keep on accusing everyone of having an agenda it will soon be down to zero.
Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

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The Today show with Lester Holt did a update back on 11/3/07 that I just found online.
(edit) I had thought it was 08. just noticed it was 07.

Nothing really new. They did do some new video. I snapped stuff that was interesting maybe, and attached.

I have 5 videos now at my youtube channel, including this one. Just the various videos that aren't on youtube already.

you can see here all 5
http://www.youtube.com/user/dbcooperxfiles
this is the new one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAwno65IUQ4&feature=channel_page
Tosaw is in this one being Tosaw.

you can see the reserve's cloverleaf rip handle
the cord cuts a little better
the tiebar slightly differently (closer?)
and 3 nice shots of the 727 aft door and stairs.
The interior panels are missing from the stairs. This must be a 727 that's retired.

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this is from the CPC site, "CapnWilly" jumping his 60s gear in 2002. (attached)


(edit) to fill the blank space in this post, I'll attach the movie poster for the 1963 film "The Skydivers" :) I know you guys will hate me for it. Apparently really bad film.
Beth: Do you want some coffee?
Joe: Coffee? I like coffee!

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Jeez, told you I needed some sleep. I managed to forget the USD is the global reserve currency. Which means that most of the USD in circulation is actually held outside the US (by central banks).
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There is about $829 billion dollars of U.S. currency in circulation; the majority is held outside the United States.


from: http://www.newyorkfed.org/aboutthefed/fedpoint/fed01.html

The USD was even more important as a reserve currency back then as it was - till just before the Cooper hijack - officially gold-backed and all other countries pegged exchange rates vs USD and so had to hold it. But, there is obviously a big difference between central banks holding USD and GI Joe spending his in downtown Saigon.

I've skimmed a number of papers on USD circulation outside the US but they mostly date from the early 90s on (except one that is too early, 1926!)

The wiki note on the increasingly large denominations of the dong is evidence of significant inflationary pressure, and that would have led to people wanting to hold dollars
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Between 1964 and 1968, notes below 50 dong were replaced by coins. In 1971, 1000 dong notes were introduced. Due to steady inflation, 5000 and 10,000 dong notes were printed in 1975 but not issued due to the communist victory.



I haven't actually answered 377's question yet of course, but I will keep looking.
Edit: I may have to try get hold of a Vietnamese or South Asian economist old enough to remember the 1970s or at least old enough to have learnt about them at university. I may have more luck doing that after the holiday season.
Edit in case it isn't obvious: the dong is the Vietnamese currency.
Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

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this is from the CPC site, "CapnWilly" jumping his 60s gear in 2002. (attached)


(edit) to fill the blank space in this post, I'll attach the movie poster for the 1963 film "The Skydivers" :) I know you guys will hate me for it. Apparently really bad film.
Beth: Do you want some coffee?
Joe: Coffee? I like coffee!



The movie is sooooo bad that you will be amazed anyone financed its production. You must see it. Few can go the entire distance to the end.

377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

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A more eloquent exposition of what i was saying earlier. Hope the first quote is not too long to hold your interest!

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Although the circumstances in each country are unique and it is difficult to generalize, during a crisis demand for U.S. dollars (or indeed any other currency that circulates widely outside its home country) tends to follow certain patterns.15 A crisis, often with both political and economic overtones, arises that leads to increased dollar usage. In many cases, growing fiscal deficits are eventually financed by rapid money creation, which leads to inflation. Surging prices sharply reduce the purchasing power of the domestic currency and the value of accumulated savings. Monetary and fiscal reforms are proposed or promised, but if they come at all, their arrival is usually slow and erratic. Inflation is correspondingly erratic, which in turn generates uncertainty about the future purchasing power of both cash and bank holdings denominated in domestic currency. Similarly, high and unstable inflation complicates the calculation and evaluation of any large or long-term financial transactions or investments, such as leases or time deposits.
Residents of countries experiencing these crises naturally seek other, more stable assets, and the dollar is often the most convenient and familiar of the available assets. Similarly, they seek to set prices and conduct financial negotiations in terms that are less likely to be affected by domestic inflation. Thus, as inflation accelerates, the first use of the dollar is as the unit of account for large-scale and longer-term transactions in the economy. As “dollarization” spreads, more transactions for large items like cars and real estate are either priced in dollars or conducted in dollars. As the realization that having dollars will prevent further losses spreads across the economy, dollar inflows accelerate. In a simple model of this process, the demand for the foreign currency (dollars) depends on the variability of inflation rates and on the difference between the inflation rates of United States and the developing country. The larger the variability and the difference, the greater will be the demand for dollars.
The degree to which a country becomes dollarized and the degree to which residents prefer cash dollars to dollar-denominated bank accounts depend on confidence in the domestic banking system. Periodic bouts of inflation often wipe out the savings held in domestic currency, which encourages flight to other assets. Interest rate premiums and indexation of accounts for domestic inflation are alternatives to dollarization, but they are only effective when people have confidence that they will actually provide full protection against inflation. Similarly, allowing dollar-denominated deposits is not always sufficient to eliminate a flight to the cash dollar: The bitter experience of having one’s foreign currency account confiscated, devalued, or made inaccessible even once is enough to keep many people from trusting banks for a very long time.



Then this bit may have more relevance to 377's question, although the cases referred to below are a lot more recent than SE Asia in the 70s:

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Although dollars flow into countries when the domestic currency weakens or political crisis looms, they often remain when the crisis passes. For example, an estimated 50 percent of the currency that flowed into Argentina in the late 1980s, into the Middle East before Operation Desert Storm, and into Taiwan after the 1996 crisis in the straits is still in those areas. Thus, it is reasonable to anticipate that dollars will remain abroad even after local currencies stabilize in parts of eastern Europe, the former Soviet Union, and Latin America.



They also mention this, but with no indication of how long it may have been the case:
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Similarly, banks in Hong Kong and Singapore trade dollars with clients for travel and for cash transactions, and they supply a large network of correspondent banks in countries where cash dollars are used heavily, including Burma, Cambodia, China, India, Indonesia, Korea, the Philippines, Taiwan, Thailand, Vietnam, and several East African countries. Dollars are the currency of choice in Cambodia and used to a considerable extent in Vietnam, especially in urban areas.



All from http://www.newyorkfed.org/banking/circulars_archive/11507.pdf
Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

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Jo, I'm not sure that you understand what FAR sighted is... farsighted means that the eye does not bend light enough, so the lens inside the eye must change shape in order to compensate for that. Both farsightedness and nearsightedness affect both distance and near vision, however farsightedness affects near more than distance and nearsightedness affects distance more than near. You are confusing farsightedness with presbyopia, I think.

I'm an eye doctor, so know a thing or two about this end of things :)
Whether he is near or farsighted or presbyopic is irrelavent without knowing the actual Rx or how near/farsighted he was. Small Rxs don't affect vision much on a functional level.


Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

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Thanks for the useful and interesting info Orange. Hope you got caught up on your sleep.

I wonder if there is some widely read Internet site in Viet Nam or SE Asia in general on which one could advertise a reward for a previously undiscovered (to rule out a resale of an Ingram twenty) Cooper note? You could post a link to the serial numbers. If the reward were say $5000 you might get some folks looking (or some Photoshop forgery efforts). If a beat up Cooper note pulls about $3K on eBay a fully intact one ought to easily be worth $5K.

377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

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Thanks for some expert eyesight info!

Jo, what was Duanes vision Rx? Surely that can be released without holdback, editing or fear of it being misused by Sluggo or others.

377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

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Duane's eyesight

Yes I am interested to see his prescription also. With the expert on board we should be able to determine something from that.

I also have a bit of information about Duane's eyesight, but I will hold it until we see Jo's info first.

This should be illuminating.

Tom

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When I posted the Poynter description of a right hand pull mod, and said that guru312's description of it being for a theorized pilot's "superman move" appeared incorrect, the reasoning given was that most folks here weren't familiar with such a mod to '60s gear.

Can someone at least acknowledge whether CapnWilly's 60s gear (the 2002 jump pic) has a right hand outboard pull?

I've never seen a ripcord outside of the movie "The Skydivers" which really motivated me to post to a DBC thread 45 years later. Ah memories.

The CapnWilly pic seems to be some other kind of rig, since it has Capewells. Would that date the rig to some more specific time in the '60s?

I'm wondering about this, cause Ckret said that Cooper dismissed any instruction about the rig. So the question comes up whether he might have been familiar with right hand outboard pulls? If he had a small amount of experience, then the rh pull might have seemed odd. If he had no experience, it would all be the same to him, but why dismiss instruction if he was whuffo? He wasn't stupid?

So the whuffo I am, is wondering how common RH outboard pulls were in the '60s, mod or original manufacture.

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Photo taken in 1979 in Salt Lake City. This guy was working in the old Business Administration Building - which also housed Church Literature and Visitors Centre. Other offices also occupied space at that time in the building.

Duane had gone into look at the directory - and went down the hall. He said the man was just leaving. We went out and he set me up in front of the Assembly Hall and told me that he wanted me to take pictures - and when a man with a brief case who would be coming out of the building to our left that you cannot see (was set way back and lots of trees) I was to take that mans picture.

Duane left the area so this man could not see him - why all the secrecy - why didn't he want this man to see him with me taking a picture.

When the pictures were developed I put them in the album and Duane asked me where the negatives where - (I thought that was ODD at that time) and only recently found the significance of this photo. When and if you guys do - this case is over. I am still waiting for the confirmation of what I was told about who this was and what the emblem (chevron) on his cuff means.

This outfit appears to be a civilian outfit with brass buttons and a chevron on the cuff - that was and is a clue. Only an elite few were allowed to wear this chevron on the cuff of civilian clothes.

Who is this man, what does the chevron mean, and what was his past and why did Duane NEED this picture? I already have the answer to parts of this, but want verification. I want if from several sources - just because.

I gave this to the FBI months ago and told them about it yrs ago with - Zero interest on their part.



Reply> Just the tip of the iceberg, I would imagine.
I mean you and Duane's behavior. Sinister. Two
morons running around doing cloak-n-dagger. Did
it ever occur to you, you might be arrested or at
least questioned and placed on a list?

And shouldn't the real DB Cooper be in hiding
vs out snooping around taking clandestine photos
of CIA people in public, in broad daylite!?

This "Cooper" (Duane and Jo Snooper Industries)
can operate overt and covert without risk or fear
of detection, in spite of the fact one of them is
one of the most sought out criminals on the
planet and on the FBI's top ten list! All in Sault
Lake City no less, where people are rather sensitive
to being watched and photographed ( a relative of
mine for example, who was in adminstraton at the
major Bell Telephone complex there)!

Duane must have been sensitive to the fact a lot
of governmental work goes on in Salt Lake City,
but you two morons are out there playing games
and photographing people and it never occurs to
you YOU are being photographed? And Duane is
the real DB Cooper no less!

I have thought all along there must be some reason
why a seasoned FBI agent like Himmelsbach would
take up the Weber case and give Jo his attention
once her hundreds of phone calls began pouring in. Simple woman "just looking for the truth". (Its the
way the Ingram fiasco began with one simple phone call coming in...)

So H decides these two morons were worth looking
at. So why not look at them since Jo is insistent,
even as H knew Duane didnt even fit the physical profile of DB Cooper.

It's enough to puzzle the average tabloid bottom
feeder. But morons will be morons!


Georegr

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Jo, I'm not sure that you understand what FAR sighted is... farsighted means that the eye does not bend light enough, so the lens inside the eye must change shape in order to compensate for that. Both farsightedness and nearsightedness affect both distance and near vision, however farsightedness affects near more than distance and nearsightedness affects distance more than near. You are confusing farsightedness with presbyopia, I think.

I'm an eye doctor, so know a thing or two about this end of things :)
Whether he is near or farsighted or presbyopic is irrelavent without knowing the actual Rx or how near/farsighted he was. Small Rxs don't affect vision much on a functional level.



add in diabetic and PKD.

Georger

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Georger

You refer to the Ingram "fiasco". What is your opinion of the money find by the kid? As reported or?

377



Im not certain who found the money. There were
two children playing together, with adults present.

I think the Judge's ruling was in error. The money
should have been kept together as a unit and
protected as a unit, to preserve its forensic value
until such time as the case were ever closed.

Georger

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Jo, I'm not sure that you understand what FAR sighted is... farsighted means that the eye does not bend light enough, so the lens inside the eye must change shape in order to compensate for that. Both farsightedness and nearsightedness affect both distance and near vision, however farsightedness affects near more than distance and nearsightedness affects distance more than near. You are confusing farsightedness with presbyopia, I think.

I'm an eye doctor, so know a thing or two about this end of things :)
Whether he is near or farsighted or presbyopic is irrelavent without knowing the actual Rx or how near/farsighted he was. Small Rxs don't affect vision much on a functional level.



I know not what his script was in those yrs. - ALL I do know is that during the early part of our marriage he DID not need glasses for driving nor for firing a gun with absolute accuracy (old eagle eye). I am glad someone here is in that profession. I do know he was far-sighted, but the last script was not strong and that was about 22 yrs after Cooper jumped. He needed glasses - or chose to wear glasses most of the time during our marriage.

Hopefully your explanation can be understood better than mine (as mine is only from personal exposure and the fact I am near-sighted (since age 8). When my friend needed reading glasses in our late 50's I was able to read and do office work without my glasses. The Dr. told me that what happened was related to the prebyopia and as time has progressed I am still able to read without my glasses.,,and read the computer screen. Outside activities require glasses.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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All,

Since Jo can't come up with the info here is mine.

Notice the arrows in the attached classic pic. At the angle we are looking through the glasses, the side of Duane's face is refracted IN. This is characteristic of what general prescription he needs. Peregrine should be able to tell us a LOT about Duane's eyes just from this.

Take your glasses off if you have them, and hold them up to a straight edge at a similar angle and see which way the line refracts. Mine goes OUT and I can see better far than near (but not great in either).

Peregrine??

Tom

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All,

Since Jo can't come up with the info here is mine.

Notice the arrows in the attached classic pic. At the angle we are looking through the glasses, the side of Duane's face is refracted IN. This is characteristic of what general prescription he needs. Peregrine should be able to tell us a LOT about Duane's eyes just from this.

Take your glasses off if you have them, and hold them up to a straight edge at a similar angle and see which way the line refracts. Mine goes OUT and I can see better far than near (but not great in either).

Peregrine??

Tom



I have already told Orange that I would take the script to my optician and have him tell me if HE CAN make a JUDGMENT CALL as to what Duane's eye site would have been 22 or 23 yrs before. If he can not then this information would be useless. I will not be able to go until after the 1st of the yr.

What someone's sight was in 1983 is cannot predict what their sight was 22 yrs before. Why not let a PROFESSIONAL make this call - ( a man with the RX in his hands). If he can state it. This is not something to be handled in a forum. If the Dr. cannot not make a statement regarding this after reading the RX in his office then the forum is NOT a place to make conjectures from a picture.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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Duane's eyesight

Yes I am interested to see his prescription also. With the expert on board we should be able to determine something from that.

I also have a bit of information about Duane's eyesight, but I will hold it until we see Jo's info first.

This should be illuminating.

Tom



I don't know what information you have regarding Duane's eye site from 1971. We know that in his last yrs - glasses were required for driving but that was the last yrs. only. As we age we depend more and more on our glasses. It will be after the first of the yr before I can have a professional give me an OPINION of whether Duane's eyesite in 1993 can in any way have predicted what his eyesite was in 1971.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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All,

Since Jo can't come up with the info here is mine.

Notice the arrows in the attached classic pic. At the angle we are looking through the glasses, the side of Duane's face is refracted IN. This is characteristic of what general prescription he needs. Peregrine should be able to tell us a LOT about Duane's eyes just from this.

Take your glasses off if you have them, and hold them up to a straight edge at a similar angle and see which way the line refracts. Mine goes OUT and I can see better far than near (but not great in either).

Peregrine??

Tom



Tom - very well spotted.

Peregrinerose please to chime in, I understand people get naturally more farsighted as they age. Thus those with perfect vision tend to get farsighted, and those who are nearsighted tend to get less so. Is this a correct understanding? And if so how generally applicable is it?
... in other words while one may not know exactly, one can surmise that Duane would have been less nearsighted later in his life than he appeared in that picture.
Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

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