DB Cooper

[skyjack71 0]

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. I wish Duane had never told me he was Dan Cooper and I wish I had never STUMBLED onto who Dan Cooper was.

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Hi Jo. You didn't stumble on Dan Cooper.

Let me interpert what I was saying - I have to learn to be very explicit when I talk to you guys.
"STUMBLED onto who Dan Cooper was" means I wish I had never read the book "What Really Happened". It was in this book that I learned the name that D.B. Cooper gave to the ticket person was Dan Cooper. Remember that Duane did NOT tell me he was D.B. Cooper - he said Dan Cooooper.

If I had never read that book I would never have known who Dan Cooper was - that doesn't mean that Duane Weber was D.B. Cooper. I get upset trying to explain what I was trying to say in the first place. This is what I have meant by no one really listened in the beginning - not even the FBI.
Perhaps it is me not being able to verbalize what I am trying to say.

The "lips"...Two of those are composite lips and one is a picture.
A composite is not going to be dead on right. The composites were not used because the artist could not get the lips right - to satisfy everyone - so they ended up with other ones.

There is no real comparison - again I needed to explain what I was seeing - because I was the one who lived with Duane for 17yrs. This is a means of explanation so you guys can see where I have been. What I have seen or believe does not make me delusional - frantic for the truth, but not delusional or crazy. Note none of this means Duane was Cooper.

What does any of it mean - I am not sure. Co-incidence and more co-incidences. The only FACTS I know are what I held in my hands - the Bag, the ticket and the stub and of course what he said and my interpertation of the things he told me and showed me over the yrs. as they might relate to Cooper.

Since no one believes Duane was Cooper except me then I have to retrace every step of Duane's life to find out who he did know well enough to have had these items in his possession. Did he steal them or where they given to him for safe keeping? Duane was an ex-con - Who in their right mind that knew that would have trusted him with a secret? I can only draw one conclusion - he stole them.

What does this mean? It narrows down the range and locations of suspects. Such as - was Cooper one of the 3x-cons Duane knew so well.

One of these guys looks like the composites,but I have never been able to acquire a photo of him - the FBI was given his name, but they NEVER contacted him. It would have been someone he kept in contact with over the yrs.

Was it the "rich" guy in Florida with suspected "connections"? The FBI has that name.

Was it the other one with a record, who had "connection" and needed money. He was also an excon. I don't have a picture of him and I met him only once.

Was it someone in the Atlanta area - because that is where Duane lived until 1978. He also worked and lived in the Columbia area of the Carolinas. Others he
spent LOTs of time in - Waycross/Savannah and Columbus. He also spent lots of time in Rome, Ga.

I know he had contacts in the Columbus area - because we went to see someone at a ghost town there - the conversation was kept out of my range and most of it concluded before I went into the ghost town shop and asked if they had a rest room I could use. I had been waiting in the car on his orders.

Now do you understand me...if DUANE was NOT Cooper he sure as hell knew who was. What suspects has the FBI investigated who spent lots of time in those areas? Re-visit those suspects and see what happens. The FBI has NEVER revealed all of the suspects, but you can bet out of the 1000 plus that one of them had some kind of contact with Duane Weber.

I am trying to help in the only way I can - Duane had those items. Why and How? If you discount the FACT that I actually saw these items then it is useless...Cooper will never be known.

By the way Snow - if you can't be open minded as I am being force to do - then DON't criticize or MOCK me for not revealing information you only riducule. As I stated before - to scan the backs of those composite is useless - take my word for something or better yet CALL the FBI and ask why Jan 2 1973 is stamped on the back of those composites .

I expect this is the date they where placed into the evidence file. Outside of the date the only other thing on the back of the composites is my blood - as I had them with me that day in 2000 when I had my accident only 2 months after I went public.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[snowmman 3]

After listening to the soliloquoy, with it's familiar beat and cadence, and softly remembered words and phrases, the assorted seedy characters slumped over the bar, smiled, in wonderment at the ability of one to get the words just right, just the same, every time, opening their eyes slowly, and reaching for their empty beer glasses...because they knew after each recitation of the immortal words, Snowmman would always, no matter how late, no matter how plastered, as the token acknowledgement to one whose brain still functioned at some level, in defiance of the years at the bar...Snowmman would yell out to the bartender:

"Round for the house! On me!"

(edit)
"The FBI has NEVER revealed all of the suspects, but you can bet out of the 1000 plus that one of them had some kind of contact with Duane Weber. "

One can bet on anything.
That would be a "prop bet"
I couldn't find it under celebrity prop bets, but if you want to wager, you can bet on the next celebrity to be charged with DUI? Is that good enough?

here:
http://www.wagerweb.com/sports-betting/celebrity-props-celebrity.html

[snowmman 3]

Okay this is just one image.
Started with the 71 sketch as usual, switched to using photo realistic texture for the skin et al, rather than texture extracted from the sketch.

used texture from an older male, morphed the 3d a little using age advance.

Added smile.

In my minds eye, I'm thinking of Cooper has that crotchety old fart down the street, who's simultaneously always bitching and laughing at the world, like he knows some shit that no one else does.
You know that guy? the one with no friends/family?
That's the Cooper in my minds eye. The one who somehow didn't get caught. Then again, could be a dead guy in the Columbia.

I like this one. Sure it looks like a lot of old farts, but Cooper evidently did look like a lot of guys. Doesn't everyone?

[Sluggo_Monster 0]

Did you forget these?

Web Page
Blog
NORJAK Forum

[snowmman 3]

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Did you forget these?

No I got those.
Are you recommending that I fold them in somehow?
???
that very first one is so different that I think it's ignorable?

aren't the next two just the 81 composite? Are they something else?

(edit) are you thinking the 81 composite doesn't look like the stuff I posted? I'm not sure what you're saying.

[snowmman 3]

This is just trivia.
But we were talking about skin tone and tans etc, specifically around southeast Asia.

This video provides visual data for the question
"If you were a young air force pilot of European-looking ancestry at Takhili Air Base in 1970, being affected by the climate there, what might your skin color look like?"

There are a number of pilots in a briefing room starting at 1 minute into this video. Some good closeups, up to 1:34 or so.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M28spwDmOIo

and only wussbags smoked filters! (see pilot take a drag, no filter of course!) Shot sometime '64-'70.

[skyjack71 0]

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Did you forget these?

Sluggo - How do we get good copies of those composites - obviously placed in to evidence with the 1973 composites if the ID on the front is iany indication of that. I notice the mouth on these two are even more like Duane's mouth - are these originals and un-altered?

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[Orange1 0]

Teeth are far too white for a smoker. Unless part of the $200K is spent on aesthetic dentistry.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[snowmman 3]

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Teeth are far too white for a smoker. Unless part of the $200K is spent on aesthetic dentistry.

hey good point. I drink a lot of coffee and I get the some of the same effect as smoking, I think. Dentist is always on me to do the whitening thing.

man, first it's the hair, next the teeth. high maintenance. :)

I tried doing a little spray paint for hair in photoshop, but decided it was best left to imagination.

Hmm I guess I'm jumping back and forth between '65-'75 and today. Back then the teeth would be reasonable? Maybe by now, it wouldn't be a smile that shows so many teeth? Older guys don't smile so much like that? or ???
Maybe I should change the age advanced one to be a less toothy smile.

Hey I was looking at Gossett's older photos..he's actually a reasonable match...although I don't think his face is wide enough at the cheeks?. And the hair seems wrong to me. Too much hair on Gossett?
Gossett's eyebrows always seemed wrong to me, but I dunno.

so what about the skin tone in the Southeast Asia (Takhli) video? What would you call that skin tone? (starting at 1:00)

[skyjack71 0]

I am sure none of you are interested my what I am currently doing, but I will tell you anyway.

The man in the picture in front of the Assembly Hall in Salt Lake City in 1979 - but I have continued to work on it. Today (sunday) I went to one of the Vet organizations and took the picture along with a magnifying glass since it would be seniors looking at it and I could only enlarge it so much without distortion.

My thinking that the "outfit" was not military is a given...just an out rageous suit of the times. The Chevron on the cuff - got their interest - they gave me the contact number and location of 2 individuals who can probably identify the "outfit" and the purpose of the chevron.

It designates rank and one of them thought these were allowed on civilian clothing for certain individuals - it was a honor made available for a kind of award or type of service during that specific war. I never heard of anything like that. (One out of 9 men in their 70's and 80's - maybe that one had too much to drink). No I didn't buy them a drink .

They were only told that I was trying to find out why this picture was so important to my deceased spouse. They do not know me as Jo Weber and Cooper was not mentioned. No one in my community is aware of who I am - and I keep it that way. They are under the impression I am looking for relatives who might not have his last name and that finding out what the "outfit" and chevron are might help my search.

Only select individuals have seen the face of the individual...but if the designation turns out to be what the man thought, it will correlate other information I have.

I am going to call before I make that long tedious drive - perhaps they can help me by way of email.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[Orange1 0]

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Teeth are far too white for a smoker. Unless part of the $200K is spent on aesthetic dentistry.

hey good point. I drink a lot of coffee and I get the some of the same effect as smoking, I think. Dentist is always on me to do the whitening thing.

man, first it's the hair, next the teeth. high maintenance. :)

I tried doing a little spray paint for hair in photoshop, but decided it was best left to imagination.

Hmm I guess I'm jumping back and forth between '65-'75 and today. Back then the teeth would be reasonable? Maybe by now, it wouldn't be a smile that shows so many teeth? Older guys don't smile so much like that? or ???
Maybe I should change the age advanced one to be a less toothy smile.

Hey I was looking at Gossett's older photos..he's actually a reasonable match...although I don't think his face is wide enough at the cheeks?. And the hair seems wrong to me. Too much hair on Gossett?
Gossett's eyebrows always seemed wrong to me, but I dunno.

so what about the skin tone in the Southeast Asia (Takhli) video? What would you call that skin tone? (starting at 1:00)

Thinking of the 40yrs+ people I know who smoke, even back then the teeth would not be very white. In those days he may already have been smoking for what, 30 years??

Re Gossett. Well I am starting to take an agnostic view of the sketches. It seems there are so many variables right now people can pick and choose to fit their guy. These lips don't work? That's OK cos look at this one... etc. You can work around the cheeks, hair. Eyebrows... hey, they look very thin in the sketches, maybe Cooper plucked them for his disguise (now there's a new theory ... I think).

Why did Ckret dismiss Gossett - was it fingerprints? I can't recall now. (Are we allowed to dismiss one person based on fingerprints but not someone else?) Where is Ckret?? Last news item I can find referring to him is around a month ago.
I heard a rumoUr he may no longer be on the case. That would be a pity, because as King5 describes the case till he came on it was "stone cold", "lower than low" in priority. If he is off the case the chances of another FBI agent willing to spend his spare time chasing it down is probably close to zero. Do our Dream Teamers have any insight here?

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[snowmman 3]

orange1 murmured from the bottom of the globe:

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Thinking of the 40+ people I know who smoke, even back then the teeth would not be very white. In those days he may already have been smoking for what, 30 years??

ok if Cooper was 45 in 1971, then he was 18 in 1944 and HIGHLY likely to have been drafted for WWII right?
maybe picked up smoking then? But maybe not a continuous smoker.

But then again, maybe yes, if he was conscientous enough to start worrying about trying to smoke filtered?

maybe only smoked when nervous or during high stress times?

If he was in SE Asia in the '60s for some reason, could have maybe not picked up smoking until then?

It's funny, we want to say Cooper just "winged it" like a doofus, but he had no problem having a couple of smokes. seems pretty relaxed.

But yeah, I should do something about the teeth.

[snowmman 3]

orange1 said:

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Why did Ckret dismiss Gossett - was it fingerprints? I can't recall now. (Are we allowed to dismiss one person based on fingerprints but not someone else?) Where is Ckret?? Last news item I can find referring to him is around a month ago.

Ckret was quoted as saying not one piece of evidence linked Gosset to the hijack. He suggested they use a private lab to do a DNA profile and then he'd compare to the FBI profile.

Where is Ckret? You mean Major Major?
You have to make an appointment to see him. He jumps out the window then, though. The CID man is looking for Major Major too. He won't come to the mess hall either. He wants all his meals in his trailer.

And Colonel Cathcart has upped the number of missions again. So no one can leave. Every time we come close to the number of posts required, Cathcart ups the number.

[Orange1 0]

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orange1 murmured from the bottom of the globe:

lol. At least down here we don't have to wonder what people look like with a tan

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It's funny, we want to say Cooper just "winged it" like a doofus, but he had no problem having a couple of smokes. seems pretty relaxed.

Er, we don't all want to say Cooper just "winged it" like a doofus. Having said that, you can't tell anything from him having a couple of cigarettes. Sure he could have had them because he was relaxed, as a typical smoker might. He could also have had them because he was nervous...as a typical smoker might.
btw Snow, why do you pick up on the smokes and not the drink? Does the drink show he was relaxed? Or does the drink show he was nervous?

btw wasn't there something about he was out of matches or whatever... seems to show he smoked regularly, at least at that stage.

Another thought on the teeth. Was there ever any physical description of them? Not on the sketches. White or yellowed, even or gaps, etc...

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[snowmman 3]

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Does the drink show he was relaxed?

drink? nerves. muscle or other pain somewhere. Maybe stomach in knots.
Maybe used to having a drink to ease some kind of stress induced pain.

that's my thinking. He's gotta know it's a performance inhibitor if things go to shit. So the need for it outweighed the possible negatives.

Not a heavy drinker, so it's not like he's gotta get shitfaced to get in a fight.

Just something to sooth something?

(edit) Oh I forgot all the stuff Ckret said about spilling the drink. I guess the theory was the drink was a feint as a way to get the stewardess, for delivering the note.
Either way, the smokes were more long term behavior?

[georger 267]

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Look at the old Rose composite and the Shaffner composite and a prison photo of Duane on intake in 1960. He was not very happy - the lip comparisons of those 2 old Composites with the mouth of Duane 11 yrs before.

Jo, to be honest - these look like 3 different sets of lips to me. I can see some resemblance between the 2nd and 3rd, but the 2nd is significantly wider (differently proportioned) than the 3rd. If you showed me this with no background at all, I would be inclined to say they belong to 3 different people.

Reply: every face, every piece of personal anatomy
is defined by the features which comprise it. True?

Take a look at the composite and tell me these
are the same person.

Note ears. Size of ears. Proportional size of lobes.
Note cranial structure and proportions.
Note lips.
Note eyes and where eyes sit on the skull.

CASE CLOSED!

[georger 267]

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I still wonder if Cooper looked much like the sketch. The part that says yes is that several eyewitnesses concurred. The part that says maybe not (to me at least) is the long history of unreliable eyewitness testimony. I saw many cases where the police sketch looked very little like the guy who was proven (through fingerprints) to be the real culprit. We are putting so much value on the sketch and it may have little resemblance to Cooper.

377

People remember proportions - relationships and a few standout details if there are any. Thats how the brain-eye system work.

When the human eye-brain look at a face or
person its scans the face/person. If there are
some prominent details (like ear missing or
Huey hanging out) that should be remembered!

Remember those zig-zag eye scan diagrams from
Psych 101? Most primates with forward positioned eyes use the same scanning
system ...

G.

[Orange1 0]

Doesn't look like the same person to me.

Now that I am concentrating on the sketches, the photo of Duane has vertical wrinkles on the brow above the nose (if you see what I mean). This type of thing is normally already starting to be in evidence by the 40s but I see no indication of it in the sketch.

The earlobes. Was it here that there was a discussion about earlobes a while ago, or did I see it somewhere else? - about there only being 2 types of earlobes, I can't remember the technical term - one going almost straight down to the face (as per Duane's photos) and one where they are "separate", which is what the sketches seem to show.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[georger 267]

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Okay this is just one image.
Started with the 71 sketch as usual, switched to using photo realistic texture for the skin et al, rather than texture extracted from the sketch.

used texture from an older male, morphed the 3d a little using age advance.

Added smile.

looks like an alien... wrong ears ....
In my minds eye, I'm thinking of Cooper has that crotchety old fart down the street, who's simultaneously always bitching and laughing at the world, like he knows some shit that no one else does.
You know that guy? the one with no friends/family?
That's the Cooper in my minds eye. The one who somehow didn't get caught. Then again, could be a dead guy in the Columbia.

I like this one. Sure it looks like a lot of old farts, but Cooper evidently did look like a lot of guys. Doesn't everyone?

[snowmman 3]

I agree Georger. If we believe it's a good sketch, people can't seem to make good comparisons based on simple measurements. My software basically just makes a bunch of measurements from a drawing or two, and builds the 3d head from that.
We should be talking about inches, not subtleties of skin tone, or smirks, or whatever. Sheesh!

I've always believed that Duane got in the show partly because people aren't used to looking at guys from the mid '60s.

I do have a lot of pics of guys in the mid '60s of close to the right age.

here's one I grabbed in just a couple seconds.

This guy at first glance seems "close" but his features are too masculine for Cooper.

Interestingly, he has a real black (thin) tie. Cooper's tie was actually not as thin as this. So even though we say Cooper's tie was thin, in the mid '60s people wore thinner.
Now by '71...I dunno. But maybe the clip on tie gives us more than we know.

I really wish I knew how much wear that clip on tie had. If it was new or old. If old, how old. Any other trace evidence on the tie. Oh well.

I should just keep posting "random '60s dude of the day, every day". If anyone objects, my answers will be:

1. Please continue.
2. The experiment requires that you continue.
3. It is absolutely essential that you continue.
4. You have no other choice, you must go on.

[snowmman 3]

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Doesn't look like the same person to me.

Now that I am concentrating on the sketches, the photo of Duane has vertical wrinkles on the brow above the nose (if you see what I mean). This type of thing is normally already starting to be in evidence by the 40s but I see no indication of it in the sketch.

T.

Yup. One thing I picked up from the sketches was the horizontal wrinkles on the forehead.

That's why I was asking people a while back, to describe the sketches using half a dozen phrases.
That would address the "key features" thing georger mentions.

We've all bought into this brain wash that the sketch is about ears and forehead and balding. It's got more than that. I think people have patterned us to get emotional about the sketch...i.e. read presumed behavior about the "middle aged man" or the "ADD engineer" etc.

It's just a sketch.
A visual encoding of some amount of information.
It's about features and distances and shapes and inches. If it wasn't, then my 3d heads wouldn't be able to be able to be done by software, and still look somewhat like the sketches!

[georger 267]

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I am sure none of you are interested my what I am currently doing, but I will tell you anyway.

The man in the picture in front of the Assembly Hall in Salt Lake City in 1979 - but I have continued to work on it. Today (sunday) I went to one of the Vet organizations and took the picture along with a magnifying glass since it would be seniors looking at it and I could only enlarge it so much without distortion.

My thinking that the "outfit" was not military is a given...just an out rageous suit of the times. The Chevron on the cuff - got their interest - they gave me the contact number and location of 2 individuals who can probably identify the "outfit" and the purpose of the chevron.

It designates rank and one of them thought these were allowed on civilian clothing for certain individuals - it was a honor made available for a kind of award or type of service during that specific war. I never heard of anything like that. (One out of 9 men in their 70's and 80's - maybe that one had too much to drink). No I didn't buy them a drink .

They were only told that I was trying to find out why this picture was so important to my deceased spouse. They do not know me as Jo Weber and Cooper was not mentioned. No one in my community is aware of who I am - and I keep it that way. They are under the impression I am looking for relatives who might not have his last name and that finding out what the "outfit" and chevron are might help my search.

Only select individuals have seen the face of the individual...but if the designation turns out to be what the man thought, it will correlate other information I have.

I am going to call before I make that long tedious drive - perhaps they can help me by way of email.

A few thouand phone calls more pestering the hell out of people wont matter.

BARADA NIKTO, GORT!

[Orange1 0]

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The man in the picture in front of the Assembly Hall in Salt Lake City in 1979

Didn't Gossett live in Salt Lake City?

Wasn't McCoy from Utah?

Do we have another theory for The Conspiracy...?

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[georger 267]

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Doesn't look like the same person to me.

Now that I am concentrating on the sketches, the photo of Duane has vertical wrinkles on the brow above the nose (if you see what I mean). This type of thing is normally already starting to be in evidence by the 40s but I see no indication of it in the sketch.

The earlobes. Was it here that there was a discussion about earlobes a while ago, or did I see it somewhere else? - about there only being 2 types of earlobes, I can't remember the technical term - one going almost straight down to the face (as per Duane's photos) and one where they are "separate", which is what the sketches seem to show.

Duane has completely different cranial proportions.
Complete different ear & lobe proportions.

Now, what does it say to have discussed Duan for months - at Jo's urging. Not to mention the years
Jo has ben at it, and they arent even thesame primate! ?

And why in all these year has Jo never given the
world a decent photo of Duane to look at? I mean
if she wishes to explore Duane being Cooper, or
wants to prove that, did she even give the FBI a
decent photo, and at we we ...... scum to be served
slop?

Its hilarious.

Georger

[snowmman 3]

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Doesn't look like the same person to me.

Now that I am concentrating on the sketches, the photo of Duane has vertical wrinkles on the brow above the nose (if you see what I mean). This type of thing is normally already starting to be in evidence by the 40s but I see no indication of it in the sketch.

The earlobes. Was it here that there was a discussion about earlobes a while ago, or did I see it somewhere else? - about there only being 2 types of earlobes, I can't remember the technical term - one going almost straight down to the face (as per Duane's photos) and one where they are "separate", which is what the sketches seem to show.

Duane has completely different cranial proportions.
Complete different ear & lobe proportions.

Now, would it not be hilarious that we have been sitting here for months dicussing this seriously?
And Jo has ben at it for ears, and they arent even
the same primate! ?

Hilarious!

I am now going to really split this shit open.

Where, oh Jo?, where is a good photo of Duane?
A straight up facial shot? A why withold that for 13+ years? And anyone spent 5 mins discussing this
over the years without even so much as a real photo of the guy?

Get off the grift, Jo Blo!

most of the comparisons I've seen have Duane wearing glasses which doesn't make sense to me.

Jo was hard pressed to find any pictures of Duane without glasses of the right age...because he wore them all the time.

Remember I dismissed Duane solely because of that.
I couldn't understand these "matches" done at Vegas with glasses on.