DB Cooper

[FLYJACK 760]

  On 7/17/2023 at 7:00 PM, georger said:

Well, you are speaking for yourself, not Cooper.

Cooper could have demanded the knapsack again but he didnt. It appears he is trying to simplify things and speed things up. Normal turn-around time should have been 20-30 minutes (documented by Sluggo). But they stalled Cooper with refueling. In the meantime Cooper wants as few people as possible getting on/off the plane. He designates Tina to be the point person but that doesnt work out either. .

Get the show on the road. Tina also says he tried dumping the money into a chute container but rejected that for some reason. By bypassing the knapsack he has put himself in a corner ... he finally decides on an ad-hoc solution to "get the show on the road" ... his first priority is getting the plane back in the air and getting out of Dodge asap where he is less vulnerable!  The money is optional. Escape is the primary mission ...

You guys are making more of this than there is!    

No, it is reason..

You learn knots in the military and there is evidence he had military experience.

Tying a bag up and to yourself in a parachute jump is not easy.. 

[Robert99 55]

  On 7/17/2023 at 7:49 PM, FLYJACK said:

No, it is reason..

You learn knots in the military and there is evidence he had military experience.

Tying a bag up and to yourself in a parachute jump is not easy.. 

I don't remember any training on tying knots in the military.  But your last sentence is absolutely correct.  Keeping the bag with him during the jump does require some really good tying.

[Nicholas Broughton 69]

  On 7/17/2023 at 7:49 PM, FLYJACK said:

No, it is reason..

You learn knots in the military and there is evidence he had military experience.

Tying a bag up and to yourself in a parachute jump is not easy.. 

In Himmies interview with Gryder when talking about the shroud lines cooper cut, he says that a delicious thought to him having been familiar with that nylon parachute cord, unless you were a fisherman that knew how to tie a knot that won’t slip through, he wouldn’t of been able to secure the ransom package with the paracord. Starts at the 59 minute mark. 

 

Edited July 17, 2023 by Nicholas Broughton

[olemisscub 527]

  On 7/17/2023 at 6:32 PM, FLYJACK said:

Grey said the guy next to Kloepfer was drunk,, he could have been making it up so I wondered who it was..

Where does this come from?

[Coopericane 44]

  On 7/17/2023 at 10:04 PM, olemisscub said:

Where does this come from?

Skyjack, page 38

[georger 258]

  On 7/17/2023 at 7:49 PM, FLYJACK said:

No, it is reason..

You learn knots in the military and there is evidence he had military experience.

Tying a bag up and to yourself in a parachute jump is not easy.. 

So did his "knots" work, ie serve their intended purpose ? Since this is reason.  (clairvoyance)

What was his middle name also! 

Shoe size?  Status of teeth. Last dental appointment. ? 

. . . . .

 

Edited July 18, 2023 by georger

[georger 258]

  On 7/17/2023 at 9:45 PM, Nicholas Broughton said:

In Himmies interview with Gryder when talking about the shroud lines cooper cut, he says that a delicious thought to him having been familiar with that nylon parachute cord, unless you were a fisherman that knew how to tie a knot that won’t slip through, he wouldn’t of been able to secure the ransom package with the paracord. Starts at the 59 minute mark. 

 

Good grief!   Can Gryder give us the names of Cooper's children .... based on knotology?  In the fifth quatrain of the maldum fornax of course!

Edited July 18, 2023 by georger

[olemisscub 527]

  On 7/18/2023 at 3:19 AM, georger said:

  In the fifth quatrain of the maldum fornax of course!

From the Orient will come a blind pirate.

Weighted he will fall from high to low.

The fatigued eagle will look in vain.

A river flowing north causes questions to multiply.

 

Edited July 18, 2023 by olemisscub

[Nicholas Broughton 69]

  On 12/31/2022 at 4:56 PM, FLYJACK said:

What does Tom say? a cigarette burn is obvious.. he wouldn't have missed it..

That spot is center, where a pin would be.

A cigarette burn in polyester creates a hole, not an impression. Look up cigarette burn on polyester, the material disappears/vaporizes creating a hole.

That looks like an impression from some type of pin.. the base of the pin would be wider or tapered making it somewhat unique.. most are flat.

Here are some vintage tie pins with a beveled/protruding base..

BTW,, I have always believed based on the impression that the tie was worn with that pin for years and the MOP clasp was thrown on later for the hijacking..

The person wearing the tie when the particles were acquired was wearing a pin.. not the MOP alligator clip..

Probably a corporate pin... 

This is a vintage RCA pin,, it would make the same impression..

Would this fit the bill fly? 
 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/225439027685?chn=ps&mkevt=1&mkcid=28&srsltid=ASuE1wSyw-rQDztV3FXg6xOTrReQcX7D8o2iIbQhgnicSKR6BAojqU7bZK8

 

 

D49844D9-7EC7-4D61-A08A-912CB574E089.webpFetching info... 0840A19E-057C-4F5B-85C2-95315FE7E5B2.webpFetching info...

Edited July 18, 2023 by Nicholas Broughton

[FLYJACK 760]

  On 7/18/2023 at 4:30 AM, Nicholas Broughton said:

Would this fit the bill fly? 
 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/225439027685?chn=ps&mkevt=1&mkcid=28&srsltid=ASuE1wSyw-rQDztV3FXg6xOTrReQcX7D8o2iIbQhgnicSKR6BAojqU7bZK8

 

 

D49844D9-7EC7-4D61-A08A-912CB574E089.webp 10.75 kB · 0 downloads 0840A19E-057C-4F5B-85C2-95315FE7E5B2.webp 8.35 kB · 0 downloads

The bevel needs to be on the pin side.. front of tie

[FLYJACK 760]

  On 7/18/2023 at 3:13 AM, georger said:

So did his "knots" work, ie serve their intended purpose ? Since this is reason.  (clairvoyance)

What was his middle name also! 

Shoe size?  Status of teeth. Last dental appointment. ? 

. . . . .

 

What is your argument?

Cooper...

Was in the military but skipped knot training..

Was not in the military and..

Was rejected by Scouts due to his swarthy complexion, smoking and protruding lower lip not able to get his knot tying badge he developed a grudge. Unable to live with that grudge Cooper hijacked a plane to prove he did deserve that Scouts badge..

 

[FLYJACK 760]

Everyone needs to be reminded of this document... 

It sums up why this case is so difficult, in 1976, pre DNA.

The only way to 100% solve this is having evidence beyond the FBI files or to find matching DNA.. Matching DNA may not even be possible. Current DNA is partial and mixed,, and may not even be from Cooper.. New DNA resting might be better but there is no guarantee.

There are those that seem to think this case can be solved with the "Science".. that is extremely unlikely and may be impossible at this point.. 

Short of forensic evidence, all we have is competing theories.

 

"hard physical evidence is extremely limited"

"strength of eyewitness identification... was weak"

"it would be extremely difficult to "make the case" if he was uncooperative"

 

[olemisscub 527]

  On 7/18/2023 at 4:26 PM, FLYJACK said:

Everyone needs to be reminded of this document... 

It sums up why this case is so difficult, in 1976, pre DNA.

The only way to 100% solve this is having evidence beyond the FBI files or to find matching DNA.. Matching DNA may not even be possible. Current DNA is partial and mixed,, and may not even be from Cooper.. New DNA resting might be better but there is no guarantee.

Kaye told me yesterday that even if the find the hair it may be compromised because back then when they preserved hairs in slides for microscopy analysis they kept it in some sort of goo between two slides. He said he's not sure how that goo would effect the hair. 

[Chaucer 110]

  On 7/18/2023 at 6:21 PM, olemisscub said:

Kaye told me yesterday that even if the find the hair it may be compromised because back then when they preserved hairs in slides for microscopy analysis they kept it in some sort of goo between two slides. He said he's not sure how that goo would effect the hair. 

There is also the case of "Jane Arroyo Grande Doe" in Henderson, Nevada. 

In 1980, a dead body of a female was found raped and murdered on the side of the road. The original investigators recovered semen from the scene and encased in a glass slide, likely in the same way the Cooper hair was. 

Forty years later, cold case investigators tried to recover DNA from that semen to identify an offender. Unfortunately, it was discovered that the glue used in the slide eroded all the usable DNA. 

Therefore, it's possible that even if the hair could be extracted from the slide, the glue used to hold it in place degraded the DNA. 

[olemisscub 527]

  On 7/18/2023 at 6:48 PM, Chaucer said:

There is also the case of "Jane Arroyo Grande Doe" in Henderson, Nevada. 

In 1980, a dead body of a female was found raped and murdered on the side of the road. The original investigators recovered semen from the scene and encased in a glass slide, likely in the same way the Cooper hair was. 

Forty years later, cold case investigators tried to recover DNA from that semen to identify an offender. Unfortunately, it was discovered that the glue used in the slide eroded all the usable DNA. 

Therefore, it's possible that even if the hair could be extracted from the slide, the glue used to hold it in place degraded the DNA. 

That would really be peak Vortex if that were the case. 

[georger 258]

  On 7/18/2023 at 6:21 PM, olemisscub said:

Kaye told me yesterday that even if the find the hair it may be compromised because back then when they preserved hairs in slides for microscopy analysis they kept it in some sort of goo between two slides. He said he's not sure how that goo would effect the hair. 

You dont know until you try. 

An asteroid could wipe humanity out before trying! And probably will . . .

[FLYJACK 760]

  On 7/18/2023 at 7:40 PM, georger said:

You dont know until you try. 

An asteroid could wipe humanity out before trying! And probably will . . .

Try what, they lost the hair.. there is no proof it is even Cooper's and if they did find it the FBI has no incentive to process it.. Cooper is dead by now if he survived the jump so the case is dead for them. My impression dealing with them is that they just want it to go away.

IMO, the best shot at forensics is Hayden's parachute at the Museum.. still a long shot.

Cooper reached into the tight pocket and removed the packing card,, the edge should have DNA.. only a few others since would have done that and you don't have to deal with the FBI.

[olemisscub 527]

Does anyone know the provenance of this photo of Manning in the Woodland City Hall?

[olemisscub 527]

Just got off the phone with John Detlor. Talked for about two hours. Super friendly. Nothing groundbreaking, of course. He admitted that everyone in the Seattle office assumed that Cooper survived (which seems obvious when you read the Vault files), but still nice to hear an agent admit that. 

[georger 258]

  On 7/19/2023 at 1:14 AM, olemisscub said:

Just got off the phone with John Detlor. Talked for about two hours. Super friendly. Nothing groundbreaking, of course. He admitted that everyone in the Seattle office assumed that Cooper survived (which seems obvious when you read the Vault files), but still nice to hear an agent admit that. 

Nice report - keep plugging away....

[georger 258]

depends entirely on how the hair is mounted ...

 

Edited July 19, 2023 by georger

[FLYJACK 760]

The packing card went with the chute to the WSHM...

[FLYJACK 760]

Flo stuffed Cooper's note in her purse.

 

Flo grabbed a pen from her purse when she dictated the note for Cooper. 

 

When Flo was leaving she had forgotten her purse and went back for it.

 

 

Alice also left her purse in the back near Cooper..

 

There is no mention of Tina's purse and odd that Alice's purse was in the back when it wasn't her section.. 

It is also strange that Alice got her purse from the back then turned and left with Flo but Flo forgot her purse and had to return. 

but the purses were left next to Cooper and he had the opportunity to drop money in their purses..

Something isn't right between Tina asking for money, taking it then returning it claiming a no tip policy, later all the stews refusing the drink money tip $19 between them, about $6 each.. ridiculous...  and Flo and Alice refusing ransom money according to some reports.. and the two purses left in the back with Cooper.

 

 

[olemisscub 527]

  On 7/19/2023 at 3:20 PM, FLYJACK said:

 

Alice also left her purse in the back near Cooper..

 

My assumption with regard to this discrepancy is that Tina was misremembering whose purse it was, especially since that comes from her December 1st-2nd interview. Since Schaffner herself says it was her purse and Alice doesn't mention the incident, then it's logical to assume that Tina was just misremembering when she assigned the story as happening to Alice. 

[Robert99 55]

  On 7/19/2023 at 2:57 PM, FLYJACK said:

The packing card went with the chute to the WSHM...

It is plainly obvious from this picture that the chute is too big to be anything other than a 28-foot canopy in container designed for such canopies.