DB Cooper

[snowmman 3]

"Locals wanted greenbacks (real U.S. currency) to deposit in their bank accounts as MPC was not negotiable in local banks. The Piaster was the Vietnamese money. To help the local economy, the Piaster and MPC exchange rate was almost equal in value. The going legal rate was about 125 Piaster for $1.00 MPC. However a local could give you as much as 3 times the value of their Piaster to get their hands on military MPC. They would then take that MPC (which was useless to them) and give you (G.I.s) twice as much MPC for any greenback dollar you would give them. How would G.I.s get greenbacks? Simply have it sent from home. So a G.I. could take $300 in greenback, trade it to a local for $600 MPC, then take that $600 in MPC and get a money order for greenbacks and send it back home. That was part of the black market at work."

[Orange1 0]

I posted earlier about kickers doing accidental jumps.

Here is an accidental airdrop from a 727! in 2005.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=298052

Marshall Islands gets unscheduled mail drop

MAJURO, Dec 22 (AFP) - The Marshall Islands was literally bombarded with air mail when a cargo door popped open on a Boeing 727 as it was taking off from the central Pacific state.

Hundreds of pounds (kilos) of letters and packages spilled from the Asia Pacific Airlines plane Wednesday into people's backyards and a lagoon near Majuro International Airport.

Majuro airport manager Art Coburn said the plane banked seconds after takeoff and a trail of mail floated from the door. The airport tower radioed to the pilots who immediately banked in the other direction to prevent more mail from falling out of the aircraft.

"The latch was locked," Coburn said. "It appears to be a faulty door not an error by the ground or air crew."

The mail, some of which was recovered, was from Hawaii and Guam, according to airport officials.

The airline carries mail on contract with the US Postal Service through Hawaii, Guam, Marshall Islands and the Federated States of Micronesia.

It also carries fresh tuna exports for the sashimi market in Japan, but Coburn said no tuna was lost.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[377 22]

You have become the 727 Research Queen Orange.
I have seen (but am unable to currently locate) a video or perhaps just a still of a cargo jet in the air with a big side freight door wide open. It landed safely. I think it was taken in FLA, might have been a Convair 880.

Snow will likely find it it 2 microseconds if he is so inclined.

The US Navy found a UAL 747 cargo door that blew out over the open ocean 60 miles offshore from HI. Talk about finding a needle in a haystack.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[snowmman 3]

Quote

You have become the 727 Research Queen Orange.
I have seen (but am unable to currently locate) a video or perhaps just a still of a cargo jet in the air with a big side freight door wide open. It landed safely. I think it was taken in FLA, might have been a Convair 880.

Snow will likely find it it 2 microseconds if he is so inclined.

The US Navy found a UAL 747 cargo door that blew out over the open ocean 60 miles offshore from HI. Talk about finding a needle in a haystack.

377

there's this still of a cargo jet making an approach to landing with the door open. Is this it? I'll see if there's a video.

[377 22]

Sure looks like you found it... looks like an early model DC 8? Older engines and nose gills.

Nice going Snow!

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[snowmman 3]

I guess it happens.

here's an accident report on the Ilyushin 76 where the cargo doors opened and a bunch of people got sucked out (2003)

http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=20030508-0
http://www.airdisaster.com/news/0503/09/news.shtml

Also here's a translation of the 2000 MD83 case where luggage flew out the open cargo door while in flight.

âle/Héraklion (AP) a MD83 of Crossair connecting Cairo in Basle was constrained to land in Héraklion on the island of Crete in the night of Saturday to Sunday. The employees of the Egyptian airport left a door of the baggage compartment opened, according to the company. Under these conditions, the cabin could not be pressurized. Nobody was wounded, but the plane lost luggage in flight.

Matthias Schmid, person in charge of the security at Crossair, explained that the pilot of the MD83 had noted, before takeoff, that a baggage compatement door was not closed. He asked for twice to the ground staff to carry out checks. He finally took off, thinking that the indicator lamp did not function correctly. The pilot then realized that the cabin could not be pressurized.

Because of the significant weight of the plane, there was no question of landing in Cairo. The plane thus continued its flight at low altitude (to the maximum 3.000 meters) above the Mediterranean.

According to Mr. Schmid, the 150 passengers did not notice anything before the landing with Héraklion. It is only after the landing in Crete which one noted that the plane had lost luggage. Moreover, the coating of the plane was damaged.

The passengers and the six members of the crew were never endangered, according to Crossair. The travellers arrived at the airport of Basle-Mulhouse Sunday at 14.00 hours with another flight.

[skyjack71 0]

Georger stated:
We have gone over this before. Many times. Nothing in the story has changed since its last
recitation, except for Weber giving two slightly different accounts. One Weber version cites the unknown contents being in a paper bag - another Weber version describes unknown contents "wrapped
in paper ... and I leaned over and got a rubber band for Duane to wrap around the paper...".

Jo states: I have never said I leaned over and got a rubber band - I do not believe I made that statement. I have said we had rubber bands and clips in our vehicle. I may have stated I would have put rubber band around it or maybe he did. I did not lean over and hand him anything.

======================


Georger states: The location (Weber cites) was previously identified as Appel Park. Maps were provided showing that park, the nearest mile marker, all in relation to Tina Bar.

The time of year and flow levels were noted, according to Jo's report and USGS flow data for
the period Weber cites as being 3 months prior to the discovery of money at Tina Bar.

Float times and flow rates established by SafecrackingPLF and USCE Hydraulic Engineer
Jeffrey Bradely were taken into account.

Maps were provided showing the general flow characteristics from Appel Park to Tina Bar. It is
not a straight flow path between the two points, as Weber insists it is.

Jo states: I have no idea where Appel Park is but I have stated as has Safecrack who was born and raised in the area that there are NO tributaries that flow into the Columbia outside of the Washougal River. I have absolutely NO idea what you are talking about unless you point if out in a map in person with me.
You are taking bits and pieces of information and trying to make they sound all important without know exactly what I am trying to say - I can do is point things out on a map in front of me.

=======================


Georger states: All objects entering the Columbia River from the area of Appel Park, or any other area, do not automatically flow to Tina Bar as a single fact of
hydrology. If that were the case, debris would have collected at mile marker 97 for eons and the Columbia would stop at mile marker 97 and there would be a large damned lake there, instead of a unimpeded flowing river.

Jo states: Are you a hydrologist and a money expert and historian.
=====================


Georger states: Weber asserts her package may have consisted of
$27,000 dollars of the original $200,000 ransom,leaving $173,000 stored in a bucket by Duane. Aside from the fact Weber's account is a late edition
of earlier versions she told which did not mention actual dollar amounts or a bucket, Weber's revision amounts to 1,350 twenty dollar bills.

Jo states: I am and and was speculating as to the amount of monies in a bag. The $173 or 178 K was mentioned while Duane was in the hospital and over heard by a witness the next day after the confession.
=======================


Georger states: If split, the bundle would be approx 6"x5.25". Common rubber band(s) which Weber said she supplied (one) will not fit around a bundle 12.5x2.5
or a split bundle approx 6x5.25". (Dimensions beingused do not account for additional paper Weber sayswas also around the bundles).

Jo States: Again I never handed him a rubber band and I can only speculate what may have been in that paper bag.


SO Please Stop - and realize that I am a simple woman looking at some old maps of the area and remembering where my husband took me to. I have some decent maps now thanks to Sluggo. Before ALL I had was some simple black and white topo maps made by some kind sole in WA and mailed to me.

I had NO fancy maps and the information I had on the floods and water flows were provided by the State of Wa. and studies I do not understand. I do not understand all the mumbo jumbo you speak of - and therefore stayed for the most part out of those discussions except to TRY to explain the places Duane took me too and showed me.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[snowmman 3]

From one point of view, we might view Cooper as a droid from some mindless bureaucracy, going whichever way higher forces dictated for him. (georger likes to push this model, I think).

Another point of view, that paints a more positive portrait, says Cooper knew how to bend like bamboo.

If someone is successful at some task, regardless of how it is achieved, shouldn't we initially assume the more positive portrait? Why start with a negative one?

For people who might have known Cooper, would they have described him in the negative light, or a more positive light of "one who is like bamboo?"

Every profile of Cooper I've read, is negative.

Would Cooper be more findable, by being more recognizable to those who knew him, by writing a profile in the most positive light possible, given his behavior and possible psyche?

(edit) And reminding people that we're talking about "in 1971"

[snowmman 3]

The Great Pictorial History of World Crime
By Jay Robert Nash, 2004 is a great resource, and has a section on Terrorism, with major events listed by date. And while I know the 1755 pages were pricey at $269
http://www.amazon.com/Great-Pictorial-History-World-Crime/dp/1928831206
we all have a copy at our desk.

It's great for getting snapshots of the major hijackings.
There are a number of ransom hijacks in there.

BUT: The Cooper hijack on Nov 24, 1971 is not listed
The hijack that happened 3 days later: Nov 27, 1971, is. And those losers needed three people! And one later drowned! Fools!

http://books.google.com/books?id=3TbelG-xZjwC&pg=PA1565#PPA1565,M1

The above link gets you to page 1565 to see for yourself.

I can only conclude, sadly, that Cooper is not a terrorist! This must be corrected?
(edit) The Table of Contents though, is sure to make Jo drool! The possibilities!
http://books.google.com/books?id=3TbelG-xZjwC&printsec=toc&source=gbs_summary_s&cad=0

[georger 268]

Quote

Georger stated:
We have gone over this before. Many times. Nothing in the story has changed since its last
recitation, except for Weber giving two slightly different accounts. One Weber version cites the unknown contents being in a paper bag - another Weber version describes unknown contents "wrapped
in paper ... and I leaned over and got a rubber band for Duane to wrap around the paper...".

Jo states: I have never said I leaned over and got a rubber band - I do not believe I made that statement. I have said we had rubber bands and clips in our vehicle. I may have stated I would have put rubber band around it or maybe he did. I did not lean over and hand him anything.

======================


Georger states: The location (Weber cites) was previously identified as Appel Park. Maps were provided showing that park, the nearest mile marker, all in relation to Tina Bar.

The time of year and flow levels were noted, according to Jo's report and USGS flow data for
the period Weber cites as being 3 months prior to the discovery of money at Tina Bar.

Float times and flow rates established by SafecrackingPLF and USCE Hydraulic Engineer
Jeffrey Bradely were taken into account.

Maps were provided showing the general flow characteristics from Appel Park to Tina Bar. It is
not a straight flow path between the two points, as Weber insists it is.

Jo states: I have no idea where Appel Park is but I have stated as has Safecrack who was born and raised in the area that there are NO tributaries that flow into the Columbia outside of the Washougal River. I have absolutely NO idea what you are talking about unless you point if out in a map in person with me.
You are taking bits and pieces of information and trying to make they sound all important without know exactly what I am trying to say - I can do is point things out on a map in front of me.

=======================


Georger states: All objects entering the Columbia River from the area of Appel Park, or any other area, do not automatically flow to Tina Bar as a single fact of
hydrology. If that were the case, debris would have collected at mile marker 97 for eons and the Columbia would stop at mile marker 97 and there would be a large damned lake there, instead of a unimpeded flowing river.

Jo states: Are you a hydrologist and a money expert and historian.
=====================


Georger states: Weber asserts her package may have consisted of
$27,000 dollars of the original $200,000 ransom,leaving $173,000 stored in a bucket by Duane. Aside from the fact Weber's account is a late edition
of earlier versions she told which did not mention actual dollar amounts or a bucket, Weber's revision amounts to 1,350 twenty dollar bills.

Jo states: I am and and was speculating as to the amount of monies in a bag. The $173 or 178 K was mentioned while Duane was in the hospital and over heard by a witness the next day after the confession.
=======================


Georger states: If split, the bundle would be approx 6"x5.25". Common rubber band(s) which Weber said she supplied (one) will not fit around a bundle 12.5x2.5
or a split bundle approx 6x5.25". (Dimensions beingused do not account for additional paper Weber sayswas also around the bundles).

Jo States: Again I never handed him a rubber band and I can only speculate what may have been in that paper bag.


SO Please Stop - and realize that I am a simple woman looking at some old maps of the area and remembering where my husband took me to. I have some decent maps now thanks to Sluggo. Before ALL I had was some simple black and white topo maps made by some kind sole in WA and mailed to me.

I had NO fancy maps and the information I had on the floods and water flows were provided by the State of Wa. and studies I do not understand. I do not understand all the mumbo jumbo you speak of - and therefore stayed for the most part out of those discussions except to TRY to explain the places Duane took me too and showed me.

And Georger states:

Bullshit. You are the one who brought this all
up twenty + times and expected the world to
dance to your tune, so divvy up Jo. Pay your bill!
Or declare bankruptcy.

You claim Duaner chucked $27,000 into the Columbia wrapped in a paper package. Thats
a sizeable wad of cash, in twenties. I measured it
today. How did Duane hold the whole thing together with rubber bands? There must have been some
LARGE rubber bands you havent mentioned so far.

Im only trying to help.

We will forget the other details for now. I dont want
to press you (sob sob).

I want you to STOP too! (sob) I am an old man too!
(sob sob). I very much dont sleep these days,
my back is weak, my legs all dried up and scales
falling off my feet, I think I am having something
but wot go to a doctor. I hate doctors. So have pity
on me and make my last days rewarding, wont you?
You aree great lady and your posts have meantso much to me, your valuable information. I have to
take some pills so will wait for your information. I
think my cata has cancer.

Georger

[snowmman 3]

The Legend of D.B. Cooper
Death by Natural Causes by Pat and Ron Forman

I don't know if there's any good sex in there yet. They say they dispel myths in the book! Tom K. Put down your instruments and buy this book!

This is also the first notice I've seen of the National Geographic documentary being filmed. (Edge West Productions of Los Angeles? headed by Phil Day?)

http://www.legendofdbcooper.com/
http://www.legendofdbcooper.com/pictures.html

article:
http://www.dispatchnews.com/main.asp?SectionID=6&SubSectionID=6&ArticleID=1726&TM=39214

They are selling the book at their web site.
There are a bunch of links to articles, photos, maps etc.

They are having big fun!

"While at the D B Cooper celebration in Ariel, WA on November 29th, Ron, Barbara's Daughter and I were interviewed for a documentary the will be shown on National Geographic television in late summer or early fall, 2009. It was quite an adventure. All three of us definitely decided we're not cut out to be television personalities. The film crew will be coming to our area in mid December to complete the filming."

Jo: you're just another wannabe! You gotta get cracking. Remember some more stuff! competing with 100 jobs!

"This book provides you with a believable and exciting story that leaves you to make up your own mind on its validity. We started out to write a book about the exciting life of a very dear friend of ours. Even without the D. B. Cooper confession, the story is remarkable. It contains humor, emotions, and excitement.

Before we met our friend, he led a very different life than when we knew him. He had been a very rough individual, serving in the Merchant Marines during the war, riding with the Hell's Angels motorcycle gang, and fighting his way through over one-hundred jobs and two marriages in his attempts to hide his true inner feelings. "

[georger 268]

Quote

From one point of view, we might view Cooper as a droid from some mindless bureaucracy, going whichever way higher forces dictated for him. (georger likes to push this model, I think).

Reply> While I am a relativist, I will still hang somebody. Make no mistake about it.

• Quote

[snowmman 3]

Quote

Quote

From one point of view, we might view Cooper as a droid from some mindless bureaucracy, going whichever way higher forces dictated for him. (georger likes to push this model, I think).

Reply> While I am a relativist, I will stay hang somebody. Make no mistake about it.

Uh, and why would that be a good thing? Are you afraid of Cooper? or you think that would deter future Coopers? How about tar and feather first?

• Quote

[georger 268]

Quote

The Legend of D.B. Cooper
Death by Natural Causes by Pat and Ron Forman

I don't know if there's any good sex in there yet. They say they dispel myths in the book! Tom K. Put down your instruments and buy this book!

This is also the first notice I've seen of the National Geographic documentary being filmed.

http://www.legendofdbcooper.com/

http://www.legendofdbcooper.com/pictures.html

They are selling the book at their web site.
There are a bunch of links to articles, photos, maps etc.

They are having big fun!

"While at the D B Cooper celebration in Ariel, WA on November 29th, Ron, Barbara's Daughter and I were interviewed for a documentary the will be shown on National Geographic television in late summer or early fall, 2009. It was quite an adventure. All three of us definitely decided we're not cut out to be television personalities. The film crew will be coming to our area in mid December to complete the filming."

Jo: you're just another wannabe! You gotta get cracking. Remember some more stuff! competing with 100 jobs!

"This book provides you with a believable and exciting story that leaves you to make up your own mind on its validity. We started out to write a book about the exciting life of a very dear friend of ours. Even without the D. B. Cooper confession, the story is remarkable. It contains humor, emotions, and excitement.

Before we met our friend, he led a very different life than when we knew him. He had been a very rough individual, serving in the Merchant Marines during the war, riding with the Hell's Angels motorcycle gang, and fighting his way through over one-hundred jobs and two marriages in his attempts to hide his true inner feelings. "

Their website advertising their book has prologue and a link to Tom's interview:

"On November 25, 2008 there was a feature on KING 5 News annoucing new scientific information proving that the FBI has been searching in the wrong area for all these years. Click here for details. "

I guess they can do that without permission.

These people are contending Cooper had a sex change to escape detection and they were fiends with him/her/ or it.

Will be in the National Georgraphic special on
the Willy Wanka Channel.

Somebody had to do it.

Maybe they will be run out of town on their donkey
and escape to Egypt with a bright star overhead ?

Baruq Adonai!

[snowmman 3]

Cooper was a dog.
That's why he didn't talk much.

Phil Day! call me and we'll do lunch.
My number's on the web.

(edit) His filmography is here
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1637762/

He is supposedly 5'11" tall.

"In 2004, the series that he'd established visually and stylistically on Lyndon B. Johnson for The History Channel won an International Emmy for best camera work"

Maybe he can get me an LBJ rubber mask, finally?

[Orange1 0]

These bits have been covered before in various posts, but humor me please. (especially as I made a special effort to spell "humor" in the American way)

IIRC, Ckret had theorized that Cooper was a loadmaster. He also thought Cooper's choice of rig was "wrong".
Again IIRC, loadmasters (and presumably kickers) were equipped with emergency rigs, not 'normal' rigs.
I think it has already been stated that for a loadmaster, the emergency/military rig option makes sense. So if Cooper was a loadmaster (or kicker), the rig choice wasn't "wrong".
Maybe the lack of taking a workable reserve with was simply because... the guy had used one of these (NB6s) or similar before without any backup. iow, maybe Cooper's first jump really was when he accidentally fell out either loadmastering people or kicking airdrops.
A lot of the fear that first time or newer jumpers have comes from the door - not just what it "represents", but the noise, the feeling, the fear that you will fall out before you are ready. A loadmaster or kicker would have had plenty of experience standing in an open door - even if they had accidentally fallen out once, they would know it was the exception and not the rule. Standing in the door would be quite normal for them. That, especially if coupled with a prior emergency deployment, would certainly take away a significant amount of the fear associated with someone without prior jumping experience. This may (may) have taken some of the "panic" away. I recall only getting sensory overload on my first jump, not any of the subsequent ones.
So this is a way of reconciling a novice jumper with a possibly successful deployment.
The loadmaster/kicker aspect would also be a reason why Cooper wasn't found on any existing DZs. (Sorry Guru. Hey, where is Guru?)

Of course, even with all the above, we still need to account for a possible bounce from a hard pull.

We also need to account for Cooper's knowledge that the stairs could be opened in flight. I think 377's point that very few people knew about this is valid and must point to some connection with Boeing or with the tests.

I like Happythought's speculation about Canada. It also makes a lot of sense.
However - re the airdrop capacity as ordered by the CIA - would they have allowed a non-US citizen to work on this?
Then again we don't know how many people may have heard about the airdrop tests.
The fact that Cooper knew the stairs could be deployed but appeared to have difficulty doing so implies he knew of it but had not been directly involved himself.

So, were there any ex-loadmasters or kickers working for Boeing? Were any of these Canadian?

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[snowmman 3]

good post orange1

you said
"So this is a way of reconciling a novice jumper with a possibly successful deployment."

Why do you think he was a novice jumper? What does novice mean, specifically, when you use it?

[georger 268]

Quote

These bits have been covered before in various posts, but humor me please. (especially as I made a special effort to spell "humor" in the American way)

Reply> very good post. I think these are good linkages. Possible add-ins: range of comic book
distribution, someone who speaks with undetectable
accent or good American accent, someone without a
history of crime new to crime, ... I will think of a few
more if you want.

Georger

• Quote

[Orange1 0]

Quote

good post orange1

you said
"So this is a way of reconciling a novice jumper with a possibly successful deployment."

Why do you think he was a novice jumper? What does novice mean, specifically, when you use it?

I have gone along with the novice view simply because it seems the FBI did a lot of work on the DZs looking at experienced jumpers.
A novice to me would be someone with no or very few jumps, few being relative depending which skydiver you talk to but let's say single digits (some maybe would argue a novice jumper would probably be less than A license requirement of 25 minimum).

I know there is an argument that it could have been someone who had done a few jumps at a DZ, but in that case I struggle to reconcile the choice of military rig & no workable reserve for the jump.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[Orange1 0]

Quote

Quote

These bits have been covered before in various posts, but humor me please. (especially as I made a special effort to spell "humor" in the American way)

Reply> very good post. I think these are good linkages. Possible add-ins: range of comic book
distribution, someone who speaks with undetectable
accent or good American accent, someone without a
history of crime new to crime, ... I will think of a few
more if you want.

Georger

Ah, the accent. Questions for you:
I'm not American, but I can tell certain of the regional accents. To me, a Canadian accent sounds like a generic American accent (or, I guess, what an American would describe as without an accent, as Cooper was described) - but I'm not sure if it would sound like this to an American? I know there are some particular differences in the accents, like the pronunciation of "out", but would a Canadian accent generally pass for American in the US?

Canadians hate being mistaken for Americans because of their accent, but in this case it may have served someone well...

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

• Quote

[Orange1 0]

Oh, and on the comic books. I'm not entirely convinced of this angle, but if it is the case - the original Dan Cooper strip was in the Tintin comics and was in French. All Canadians are bilingual in English and French, no? And Dan Cooper was, of course, Canadian...

http://www.coolfrenchcomics.com/dancooper.htm

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[georger 268]

Quote

Quote

Quote

These bits have been covered before in various posts, but humor me please. (especially as I made a special effort to spell "humor" in the American way)

Reply> very good post. I think these are good linkages. Possible add-ins: range of comic book
distribution, someone who speaks with undetectable
accent or good American accent, someone without a
history of crime new to crime, ... I will think of a few
more if you want.

Georger

Ah, the accent. Questions for you:
I'm not American, but I can tell certain of the regional accents. To me, a Canadian accent sounds like a generic American accent (or, I guess, what an American would describe as without an accent, as Cooper was described) - but I'm not sure if it would sound like this to an American? I know there are some particular differences in the accents, like the pronunciation of "out", but would a Canadian accent generally pass for American in the US?

Canadians hate being mistaken for Americans because of their accent, but in this case it may have served someone well...

Reply> Generally, here is how it works. America is
divided into 5 basic phonetic regions: Midwestern,
North-Midwestern, Eastern, Southern, and all others.
The American dialect closest to Canadian is northern-Midwestern ( ie. Wisconsin, Michigan, Upper Michigan
called Yupper "ya know?", and North Dakota all influenced by Scandinavian dialects eg. the Sara Palin dialect). But French Candian is different from all of these, oui?

French Canadian, like French spoken in France, stands out because it is based on a whole different
phonological set vs. all other languages spoken on
the North American continent. People who are raised speaking French as their primary language find it
impossible to lose their French accent even after years of living elsewhere no matter what other language is spoken. French phonology is that uniue. If Cooper had been raised French Canadian his accent would definately have been picked up. The
only exception to this are people raised in joint
French-English or some other combination homes where French is NOT the dominant language. Even
then evidence of a foreign language is often detectable, especially when people are under stress. A phonological or grammatical error may slip out under stress, and if that happened with Cooper I
feel it would have been detected. So, we are
probably talking about some American or Western Canadian accent. (Everyone has an accent of some
kind as judged by listeners. Everyone comes from somewhere with specific linguistic patterns.)

Canadian is divided into two large linguistic regions called French Canadian vrs. Western Canadian. In
1970 Western Canadian would have been most
geographically pervasive called the standard Canadian dialect with a strong British influence (about=aboot, yes=ey?) with French Canadian
centered mainly in Quebec and Ontario and in
pockets throughout the rest of Canada.

The Midwestern dialect generally starts in the western part of the Ohio valley and continues
west to California, south to middle Missouri, north
into So Dakota, through parts of Wyoming and Montana and Idaho, and then up to Oregon and
into Washington (with pockets of other dialects
in all these regions).

My feeling is if Cooper had been caught saying
'aboot' or 'ehy?' or 'bloody' or some other British
Canadian aphorism it would have been noticed
quickly and Cooper would have been thought
Canadian.

Listeners will filter everything through their personal
or shared dialectic, from the ticket agent to Tina
and Schafner and anyone else who heard Cooper speak.

In the case of the airline employees we have people
who regularly heard a broad sample of human languages. Compared to the average person you
would think these people would be sensitive to
differences in people's language.

If all of these people say "he spoke with no accent" then you have to conclude Cooper spoke in the same dialect as these people, or within the range
these people would agree showed no signs of a
special accent or dialect.

These are people who described Cooper's phyical
appearance well, and all agreed. These are people used to hearing languages. You almost have to
take their "no accent" evaluation at face value.
But, his physical appearance includes olive skin
which is a bit unique.

Mr. Sameness with olive skin who speaks with
no accent. Olive skin crosses with several distinct
linguistic populations and still he has "no accent".

Hopfully I have said something that will help you
think.

BTW, where are you? Country is enough. Suid Afrika?

Georger

• Quote

[Orange1 0]

Quote

BTW, where are you? Country is enough. Suid Afrika?

Georger

Ja! - as per my profile data in the left hand column.

That was a lot of detail.. thanks! I did assume Cooper would have been native English not French if he was Canadian .. adults can't lose their accents that well. Or maybe they can (Charlize Theron being a good example).

I have a good friend who's Canadian (Vancouver) and he tells me it is really only the "out" (which would include "about") that is different from Americans.

I'll take your point because Americans should be able to tell. However, I'm more convinced of that argument from say Tina, who spoke to him a fair amount, than the ticket clerk (not convinced "one way ticket to Seattle, Dan Cooper" is enough to pick up the differences.)

Re airline personnel...maybe. I'm not convinced. I have spent a fair amount of time flying in the US and have been asked by airline personnel on a number of occasions where I am from when they hear my accent, with most initially assuming I am from the UK. And an American might not be sensitive to the differences between Australian and Kiwi, for example. I've learnt what to listen for, because Kiwis get bloody upset if you think they are from Australia. There is just about no identifiable difference between an English speaker from Zimbabwe or Swaziland and one from South Africa. But all that is asides.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[mark 107]

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There is just about no identifiable difference between an English speaker from Zimbabwe or Swaziland and one from South Africa.

Depends on which South African English speaker we're talking about ( - pun intended). I hear a difference between English South African English and the Dutch-accented English spoken by Afrikaaners.

Mark

[Orange1 0]

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Depends on which South African English speaker we're talking about ( - pun intended). I hear a difference between English South African English and the Dutch-accented English spoken by Afrikaaners.

Mark

When I said "English speakers" I did mean home-language English speakers, not Afrikaners who speak English as a second language. There is a clear difference between the accents.

(Of course, we also have some different regional accents - English is often differently accented by first language speakers from various parts of the country as well as local favourite terms; Afrikaans-accented English differs in how "heavy" the accent is, partly depending on where the speaker is from and how early they were taught English. But I'm not sure these distinctions would necessarily be obvious to an outsider, and they are certainly not as clearcut as for example it is in the different regions of the UK. For example, all the graduates of a partciular exclusive boys' boarding school speak with the same accent regardless of where they were from.)

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.