DB Cooper

[snowmman 3]

Well, I'll grant you that Missouri Bob was deranged.

The transmission went in his pickup, but reverse still worked so he just drove everywhere in reverse.

Whenever I think of Crazy Bob, I think of that "Show-Me State" license plate coming towards me.

John, he was deranged too. But he had good reason.

Dick C. Probably not. But he was the best dancer!

Tina had her bible. Not deranged, by legal fiat.

[377 22]

  Quote

Georger, haven't you had similar thoughts when on a long flight and being served your fourth bourbon by a gorgeous flight attendant?

377

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No. I always want to get home to my family. My goals are closer to home and things at
hand.

I wish I were as saintly. Maybe in the next life?

377
Night Clerk at the Hotel De Range.

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[snowmman 3]

  Quote

Or, they drew it out of their corporate
heads at random........ all crazy people go to Alaska?

are you supposed to be a shrink or something georger?
The subconscious mind always puts out its fears and desires simultaneously, when confronted with the unknown.

Of course Cooper wants AK, don't we all? And he wants that $10 burger too!

[377 22]

There is a bar in AK with no roads leading to it, just a runway.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[snowmman 3]

  Quote

No. I always want to get home to my family. My goals are closer to home and things at
hand.

I don't get it.
Are there stewardesses where you live?

You live at the airport?

• Quote

[snowmman 3]

if a suicide bomber can be "not deranged", then Cooper is flying well below the radar.

http://www.rickross.com/reference/brainwashing/brainwashing22.html

Suicide bombers are not deranged, psychiatrists say. Under group pressure, they see logic and a 'higher purpose' in their actions.

Los Angeles Times/July 30, 2002
By Benedict Carey

The list includes architects and drifters, engineers and poets, teenagers and middle-aged men, a 30-year-old woman, an 18-year-old girl, and, every week it seems, someone else, someone different.

"You hear people say that these are all desperate people, or poor people whose families need the money," said Rohan Gunaratna, a terrorism specialist at the University of St. Andrews in Scotland. "This is nonsense."

Long before the recent rash of suicide bombings in Israel, psychiatrists, terrorism specialists and others were searching for clues to what prompts people to strap on explosives and annihilate themselves in a crowded street or cafe.

Experts examined psychological profiles. They interviewed Sri Lankan separatists and imprisoned Palestinian militants. They studied the mass suicide at Jonestown, Guyana, in 1978 and the Japanese kamikaze missions of World War II.

Their emerging understanding contradicts the notion that suicide bombers are deranged fanatics. The evidence is just the opposite: They tend to be free of obvious mental illness. Many are competent, successful, even loving and loved.
...
These did not appear to be mentally unbalanced people, researchers say. Indeed, crazed loners are not likely to be selected for suicide missions.

"The crucial quality that recruiters look for is mental stability," said Jerrold Post, a psychiatrist at George Washington University who recently completed a study of 35 Palestinian militants in Israeli jails, several of whom had recruited suicide attackers.
...
Suicide as a Statement

The latter 20th century offers many examples of suicide as a political or religious statement, however eccentric or inscrutable. In Northern Ireland in 1981, 10 prisoners starved themselves to death to protest British rule. In 1978, more than 900 American followers of People's Temple leader Jim Jones poisoned themselves on his orders at the Jonestown compound in Guyana.

Five years ago, Marshall Applewhite and 38 of his followers in the Heaven's Gate cult killed themselves in Rancho Santa Fe, Calif.

They expected to shed their earthly bonds and travel to a "next level" of existence on a spacecraft they believed was shadowing the Hale-Bopp comet.
...
"I think in this sense," said Lifton, the Harvard psychiatrist, "all suicide has to do with making a lasting statement one could not make in life."
..

[skyjack71 0]

Snowmman stated this about the bill:
"Add some decomposition, and it's unclear that 3 wet decomposed bundles, can't stay together "

I do not know how many bundles could have been in that paper sack Duane threw into the Columbia at the old bridge in down town Vancouver. Large enough for 3 to 6 bundles. I am sure he would have bundled them within the package in groups of 2's or 3's. - (just going on what I knew about him). He secured the bag some way with what he had in the car - it was rolled over several times but I didn't see him actually throw it into the water. We kept clips and rubberbands in the car in our travel kit (for work as we sold insurance (on the road) and always had a portable office with us).

Who knows what was in that bag? But the money was found just down the river only 6 months or so later. I have to estimate we where there in Sept...because I questioned what kind of clothes to take - it was warm enough 5 days prior to the river incident to wear short on the way to Salt Lake from Ft. Collins, Co. but fall weather the rest of the trip.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyack71 0]

I am not Jo. I am a robotic Jo translator, stripping her posts of innuendo and speculation and and politely restating them more succinctly with no malice intended.

Prior post translation:

Duane went to a bridge with a bag.
The bridge may have been on the Columbia River.
I do not know what was in the bag.
I did not see him throw the bag into the river.

[snowmman 3]

  Quote

I am not Jo. I am a robotic Jo translator, stripping her posts of innuendo and speculation and and politely restating them more succinctly with no malice intended.

Prior post translation:

Duane went to a bridge with a bag.
The bridge may have been on the Columbia River.
I do not know what was in the bag.
I did not see him throw the bag into the river.

Ignoring any evaluation of whether what you propose is possible, or whether your attempt is sound, why would you bother?

If the meaning is already in Jo's post, and you're just presenting it differently, we'd only need your post if you somehow have a decoder ring that we don't have.

It's like if someone writes a poem in French, and we all know French, we don't need someone's poor attempt at an English translation?

We have the same Jo decoder ring you do.

So your posts are only interesting in that they provide extra information...i.e. what you think the decoder ring is.

Isn't that odd? Why do you want to tell us what your decoder ring is? Are you deranged? Georger might say "yes" since he thinks most people are deranged. I would say "yes" because I think Georger is deranged.

Yossarian would say "I told you so".

[TomKaye 1]

  Quote

Duane threw into the Columbia at the old bridge in down town Vancouver. .

Jo,

I can tell you absolutely, positively and with COMPLETE authority, that the bills on Tena Bar had nothing to do with Duane and the bag your talking about.

I am listening to all your evidence carefully and trying objectively to see if any of it fits into our investigation. In this particular case the question is answered. Now this is my test for you to see if in fact you really are accepting of new facts that prove Duane innocent or guilty. If you don't accept my answer, and continue to believe the bag is related to the money, it will color your other evidence from my perspective.

Thanks,

Tom

[happythoughts 0]

Canada

Canada is just around the corner.

What better way to disappear from the prying eyes of US
police agencies than to never enter the US again?
No investigation. After a few years, launder the money
and vacation in Calif.

What better reason than to have a bunch of training and no job?

  Quote

In time, the American Special Forces mission evolved
to include security assistance training for Allied and friendly
forces world-wide to resist Communist expansion.

There was similar Canadian activity in the 1960s when the Army deployed Military Assistance Programme (MAP)
teams to Nigeria, Ghana and Tanzania. These teams
consisted of Regular Army officers who, at the
‘operational’ level, trained the military personnel of these
new Commonwealth countries to increase their
professionalism. The strategic function, particularly of
the 83-man team in Tanzania, was to maintain a
Western presence to counter Soviet and Chinese-
bloc political and military influence. This Programme
was disbanded in 1971, when the Trudeau government
disavowed its strategic value.

Nigeria, Ghana and Tanzania. Visiting those places would
give you a tan.
Being let go after years of service would give you a grudge.
Years in the Canadian army would give you the training.

[snowmman 3]

Tom

On the day the ingrams brought their money to the FBI, 12 bundles were laid out for the press to photograph.

There are 3 good photos.
The corbis photo, from a slant.
An AP photo, from above.
some color pics, from various video snaps (news)

Later on, I think when the money was given to Brian after the court case 6 years later, we have another snap from a video. (I actually forget if it was then or later)
This time, the bills show some with brown tops.

There were no brown tops visible on the 12 bundles in 1980.

where did the brown tops come from? the bottom of the stack of bills? How?

[georger 264]

  Quote

  Quote

Or, they drew it out of their corporate
heads at random........ all crazy people go to Alaska?

are you supposed to be a shrink or something georger?
The subconscious mind always puts out its fears and desires simultaneously, when confronted with the unknown.

Of course Cooper wants AK, don't we all? And he wants that $10 burger too!

I think there were stereotypes being thrown around
while also trying to deal with the technical and tactical issues. Maybe Alaska came out 'because 305 had
been traveling north, Portland to SEA, and so logically
fate must continue the journey north, or Cooper wants
to go north, or Cooper wants to see the Corona Borealis!, or who knows why... ' unless, Cooper did or said something we dont know about that triggered
Alaska as a possible choice?

I just think the poster's original question is a good one.

No, Im not an MD.

Georger

[Orange1 0]

  Quote

Canada

Canada is just around the corner.

What better way to disappear from the prying eyes of US
police agencies than to never enter the US again?
No investigation. After a few years, launder the money
and vacation in Calif.

What better reason than to have a bunch of training and no job?

  Quote

In time, the American Special Forces mission evolved
to include security assistance training for Allied and friendly
forces world-wide to resist Communist expansion.

There was similar Canadian activity in the 1960s when the Army deployed Military Assistance Programme (MAP)
teams to Nigeria, Ghana and Tanzania. These teams
consisted of Regular Army officers who, at the
‘operational’ level, trained the military personnel of these
new Commonwealth countries to increase their
professionalism. The strategic function, particularly of
the 83-man team in Tanzania, was to maintain a
Western presence to counter Soviet and Chinese-
bloc political and military influence. This Programme
was disbanded in 1971, when the Trudeau government
disavowed its strategic value.

Nigeria, Ghana and Tanzania. Visiting those places would give you a tan.
Being let go after years of service would give you a grudge.
Years in the Canadian army would give you the training.

There was one of the Air America vet's links where the person talked about spending time in Africa as well as SE Asia (I can't remember if it was one of the links I posted or just another one I read).

Of course, "a bunch of training and no job" applies equally well to US vets returning from Vietnam as well?

The thoughts on Canada are interesting. And if someone was from the Northwest, well they could go home and easily go get the money when they needed it, no?
Galen Cook's suspect reportedly had a safety deposit box there, right? But it would be as easy for anyone to have one there?

Edited to add: This was the link for the guy who spent time in Africa http://www.air-america.org/Articles/Sullivan.shtml, but reading it again I see that it was a private sector not military job. What it does highlight though is that people spent time in "interesting" places that did military service as well.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[snowmman 3]

Speaking of Alaska, I'll type in this hijack report from Mar. 9, 1987. Good example of how unpredictable stuff can be with hjijacks?

The flight was going Seattle to Anchorage.
The guy apparently lived in New Jersey.
Put his finger in jacket to simulate a pistol.

Anchorage, Alaska 3/9/87
"Two crew members of an Alaska Airlines jet thwarted a hijack attempt by wrestling to the ground a Spanish-speaking man who had bluffed his way into the cockpit and tried to force the plane to Cuba, officials said. Several passengers aboard the Boeing 727 helped the flight crew immobilize the man in the Saturday afternoon incident which lasted about five minutes. Juan Tapanes, 30, a native of Cuba, was taken into custody by the FBI when the jet landed in Anchorage at 1:45 p.m said Federal Aviation Administration spokesman Paul Steucke."


Who'd have thought a Spanish-speaking Cuban native, would try hijacking a plane (a 727 even) from Anchorage to Cuba, in 1987.

[Orange1 0]

Ah, perhaps I should have highlighted this bit from the link on Laos (http://www.air-america.org/...les/Erickson_W.shtml)

It's not impossible Cooper got his first jump this way I suppose?

  Quote

The kickers I knew were usually ex-military load specialists who had done this kind of work in the service. On more than one occasion they tripped and accidentally went out the back with the goods but were saved by their parachutes. Needless to say they had to have a quick trigger to get their chutes opened fast. I never saw this happen but heard about it from those who had.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[skyjack71 0]

  Quote

  Quote

Duane threw into the Columbia at the old bridge in down town Vancouver. .

Jo,

I can tell you absolutely, positively and with COMPLETE authority, that the bills on Tena Bar had nothing to do with Duane and the bag your talking about.

I am listening to all your evidence carefully and trying objectively to see if any of it fits into our investigation. In this particular case the question is answered. Now this is my test for you to see if in fact you really are accepting of new facts that prove Duane innocent or guilty. If you don't accept my answer, and continue to believe the bag is related to the money, it will color your other evidence from my perspective.

Thanks,

Tom

I do not know what was in that bag (I can only speculate), but it was a very odd thing to do. The fact that he turned in his resignation the day after the article appeared in the paper in Ft. Collins Co. about the money being found seems suspect (I was unaware of that until some else made a connection between the dates recently).

I know he disappeared twice on that trip for several hours at a time. One time was while we were at the Dalles - he was gone for several hours and came back soiled. The next time was in Seattle all afternoon.

All of the places he took me to on the Columbia below and across from the airport tower. The places he took me to in Washington, to Lake LaCames and the hill above that and the farm across the lake, In Wahougual to a cememtary and then up the Washougal river to a trailer park - he told me about some kind of mining or caves further around that road but we turned around and went back to a road I now know was Coffey Rd and after a while we went North toward Battleground Lake to where the 2 towers and the shed used to be and the VOR thing...then South again toward I-5. On this trip he pointed out 2 airports or strips with one of those being on the road to I-5.

In Seattle he took me to the back side of the airport - it was supposed to be a short cut (but with the map I realized it was not near our destination). Later he disappears for an afternoon coming back all giddy (he had not been drinking). The next day we head back to Vancouver and you know the about the site West of the airport tower on he Vancouver side and then big tank (some kind of business on the Columbia) getting in the car from there was the first time I had noticed the bag - West of Winterly Park (I did not see the park on that trip with him). Then to the bridge - right behind what used to be the Red Lion Motel.

I am open to how the money got in the Columbia - but the things he told me and the things he showed me -that is not open to discussion at all. Those are things I know. What his little trips meant and what he did on that trip are my recalling the trip. They are strange events for a man who supposedly never lived in WA or worked there.

Why would he tell me about burying something behind the shed where the tower used to be - in the middle of the woods on an unpaved and unused logging road?

I need someone to help me add it up - help me understand why he knew this area. He used to know some guy around the Mt. Hood area from a statement he made on that trip, but that we were not going there. This was after he had been gone all that morning at the Dalles...this is around the time we crossed over to the Wa side.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[quade 4]

  Quote

I am not Jo. I am a robotic Jo translator, stripping her posts of innuendo and speculation and and politely restating them more succinctly with no malice intended.

Guess what? You're also banned.

If you'd like to participate, try using your real account and not hiding behind anonymous ones just to stir up shit.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[TomKaye 1]

  Quote

where did the brown tops come from? the bottom of the stack of bills? How?

Snow,

We don't know for sure but its very reasonable to assume the black bills were on the top and bottom of the stack. We don't know at this point if it was BOTH top and bottom but that would make more sense. I have one of the black bills here.

I am sure they split the bundles open to show that they looked like real money. I am sure when Brian found them they looked like a ball of crap. Its a miracle he ID'd them as cash.

Tom

[skyjack71 0]

Thanks Quade - I just deleted a post telling people why I think this person did this, but as soon as I saw what you did - I just let it go.

Folks SKYJACK is not skyack

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[snowmman 3]

Jo, since you didn't have the bandwidth to use Youtube effectively, I uploaded the 727 video for you here at DZ.com. You, and anyone I guess, can download it
here

http://www.dropzone.com/videos/Miscellaneous/Air_America_727_air_drop_test_70/_71_1130.html

Right click on the download button, and use "save link as ..." to save it. Then click on it to play.

It's a windows media (wmv) file, so just clicking on it should play it in windows media player (or whatever else you've got setup) for .wmv files.

You might right click on view it at 200% in windows media player. (or full screen)

If there was any need, I could download the higher resolution of the full movie, and create a better resoultion, but I don't think that would add anything.

[snowmman 3]

  Quote

I am sure they split the bundles open to show that they looked like real money. I am sure when Brian found them they looked like a ball of crap. Its a miracle he ID'd them as cash.

Tom

as you know, Brian provided a variety of slightly different descriptions of the money configuration when found. One interesting one he used in a video was that they were like a piece of "petrified wood" which doesn't make sense. In another he says they were stacked, with a subtle implication maybe that would imply something about burial.

But the "ball" idea you mention seems to jive with a "petrified wood" kind of idea.

Could all 3 bundles have been part of this "wad"?

Early on, when we had discussions on this with SafecrackingPLF, I remember an implicit assumption that the 3 bundles were just localized to an area. Unknown if contiguous in any way.

We've never been clear on whether there was just one single clump, or multiple seperate bundles, at the find.

If there are many brown bills, one might think that means the bundles were laying separated. since they would have to be separated to get the different exposure that would lead to browning? (assuming the browning effect doesn't penetrate more than 1 bill?)

It's all very confusing. The bits and pieces of info we have (which is poor) don't seem to add up for the money find.

(edit) Another odd thing, is that it appears that the 3 main bundles may have had equivalent extra wear on the "face" side of the bundles (assuming all faces oriented the same way), compared to the bottoms.

This would be odd, since it would mean there was top wear that was different than bottom wear, and it was consistent on all 3 bundles?

I'm guessing from the photos, but hopefully you see the question I have.

[Orange1 0]

  Quote

  Quote

I am not Jo. I am a robotic Jo translator, stripping her posts of innuendo and speculation and and politely restating them more succinctly with no malice intended.

Guess what? You're also banned.

If you'd like to participate, try using your real account and not hiding behind anonymous ones just to stir up shit.

I'd wondered if that would happen.
As a matter of interest, after I saw that post I checked the forum rules again and couldn't find the one about posting under multiple aliases - has it been deleted or am I not looking in the right place? (not questioning your right to ban it, it probably falls under the "troll" rules?)

I must admit I found it quite... succint, though.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[Orange1 0]

I'm not sure if this has any relevance but I have just discovered the US Airforce has C-22Bs which are in fact Boeing 727s. I'm just wondering if using this term in Google searches may bring up something we haven't found yet.

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/cargo/Cargo_Aircraft.htm

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[georger 264]

  Quote

  Quote

I am sure they split the bundles open to show that they looked like real money. I am sure when Brian found them they looked like a ball of crap. Its a miracle he ID'd them as cash.

Tom

as you know, Brian provided a variety of slightly different descriptions of the money configuration when found. One interesting one he used in a video was that they were like a piece of "petrified wood" which doesn't make sense. In another he says they were stacked, with a subtle implication maybe that would imply something about burial.

But the "ball" idea you mention seems to jive with a "petrified wood" kind of idea.

Could all 3 bundles have been part of this "wad"?

Early on, when we had discussions on this with SafecrackingPLF, I remember an implicit assumption that the 3 bundles were just localized to an area. Unknown if contiguous in any way.

We've never been clear on whether there was just one single clump, or multiple seperate bundles, at the find.

If there are many brown bills, one might think that means the bundles were laying separated. since they would have to be separated to get the different exposure that would lead to browning? (assuming the browning effect doesn't penetrate more than 1 bill?)

It's all very confusing. The bits and pieces of info we have (which is poor) don't seem to add up for the money find.

(edit) Another odd thing, is that it appears that the 3 main bundles may have had equivalent extra wear on the "face" side of the bundles (assuming all faces oriented the same way), compared to the bottoms.

This would be odd, since it would mean there was top wear that was different than bottom wear, and it was consistent on all 3 bundles?

I'm guessing from the photos, but hopefully you see the question I have.

Reply> You are placing questions on Brian Ingram
he probably cant answer and never could answer.
He was a kid at the time. His playmate with him was only 5!

Its not like the money was found by a forensic team.

Geoger