DB Cooper

[377 22]

  Quote

'40 & 60 WATT INCANDESCENT LIGHT BULBS WILL BE ILLEGAL
AFTER JAN 1 2014 - ITS O'BAMA BULB CARE! GO OUT AND BUY
EVERY LIGHT BULB ON THE SHELF .... NOW NOW NOW!'

No worries. Stock up if you wish, but if you run out no worries. Big incandecent bulbs will come across the border clandestinely if there is a demand. Even Freon 12 is smuggled in from Mexico. And don't think the cost will be prohibitive. Who ever expected crack rocks to get so incredibly cheap.

If you want your incandescent bulb filaments to last much much longer run them at a slighly reduced voltage using a light dimmer. The color temp is more yellow at reduced voltage but the filaments will last for decades instead of a year or two.

I went to 99% CFLs and am slowly converting to LED in some spots as prices drop. I have and will always have a bright incandescent bulb where I read. I just love the light spectrum these bulbs produce. But their efficiency is abysmal:

  Quote

Incandescent bulbs are much less efficient than most other types of lighting; most incandescent bulbs convert less than 5% of the energy they use into visible light[1] (with the remaining energy being converted into heat). The luminous efficacy of a typical incandescent bulb is 16 lumens per watt, compared to the 60 lm/W of a compact fluorescent bulb. LEDs are even better.

This forum would be greatly enhanced by the return of Snow, Sluggo, Orange and Farflung. Others as well. I liked Safecrackin PLF for example. It would be great to have Larry Carr back too.

Don't understimate the prestige and fame that would come to an FBI SA who closed the agency's only unsolved skyjack case with a rock solid Cooper ID.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[FLYJACK 768]

  smokin99

******One of the first things you will have to establish about your suspect is availability at the time of the crime. In other words, you could have all the circumstantial evidence in the world, but without some placement, or opportunity to do the crime, it's a tough sell.

EXAMPLE: Let's say you run up a bunch of evidence on a suspect, but then after interviewing friends and family of the suspect you discover without a doubt they were all together eating Thanksgiving, etc.

Yes...sooner or later you will have to begin exploring the friends/family/other possible witness angles.

Thanksgiving at that time in Nov is a US only date,,, a foreigner would not recognize it,

Don't you think a personal document with fingerprints and possible DNA would work. after this amount of time has passed that is all we can do, . I have tried to track him back in the 1970-72 time frame and I just can't confirm anything,, too much time has passed. Everyone is dead. His culture was primarily french... I have spent hours and hours translating french documents..

I do have copies of his handwriting in english and in french. My understanding is that the hijacker left no handwriting,,,


..

Some people put a lot of stock in indirect witness statements (meaning someone not a direct witness to the hijacking) because that is a high proportion of what they have. Unfortunately, that leads to stuff like wigs, and comics on the wall, different people claiming that their guy owned a tie clasp just like Cooper's, and other anecdotal stories that are unable to be proven (or not).

If you have fingerprints and dna, and you also have the coincidental stuff, why not just take it to the FBI? Unless I'm missing something, that would be the ultimate verification.

Yes I know the various issues with the dna and fingerprint evidence that some have brought up, but short of pulling a twenty or other tangible evidence out of his safety deposit box there is no other way that is not circumstantial.

I agree, especially after so much time has passed but i don't have the original document in my possession yet, though I am sure that I can get it...

I don't have the source material for potential prints and DNA, that is why I am reluctant to identify the suspect,,, remember I am outside the US and the FBI has no jurisdiction.. If I give up his identity, I may get scooped on the document.

He was in WW2 Europe, but not in the US military...



..

[smokin99 0]

  RobertMBlevins

*********This married father of two has been missing since Dec 1971 along with his plane...... AND even though the description is interesting - I'm not trying to connect this guy to Cooper - just another post showing that it's not impossible for bodies and planes or parachutes to disappear.

http://doenetwork.org/cases/3549dmmb.html

http://www.thompsoncitizen.net/article/20121207/THOMPSON0107/312079998/-1/thompson/the-case-of-the-missing-aviator-winnipeg-engineer-jim-macdonald

Checking the articles, I think it's obvious why they never found him and perhaps what happened. It was -30 degrees Celsius on takeoff and there are several just HUGE lakes between the Thompson airport and Winnepeg.

Possible cause of crash: Icing.

Possible location of aircraft: Bottom of one of the lakes.

Why use Occam logic when a conspiracy theory is possible?

Bottom of a lake is so less interesting than the dark side of the moon.

377

Have you read the book Hatchet? Good one. Pilot in that same area of Canada has a heart attack and dies at the controls. 13-year-old boy with him just keeps on going until the plane runs out of gas and crashes into a lake.

Jeez...who said anything about a conspiracy theory? I merely pointed out that guys can go missing - whether on mountains or or ground or in lakes - and never be found.

I was answering you a bit sarcastically with tongue in cheek because I really did not ask how or why. I assumed that would be kind of sorta obvious.
Yes, there are several things that could increase the odds of not finding a body or a plane - and, yes, crashing in a body of water is one of them.
Lol....Now, that we've got that all straightened out... Occam who?

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[Robert99 55]

  377

I went to 99% CFLs and am slowly converting to LED in some spots as prices drop. I have and will always have a bright incandescent bulb where I read. I just love the light spectrum these bulbs produce.

377, I converted everything possible to CFLs about 5 years ago and had a noticeable reduction in my electricity bill (possibility up to 10 percent).

About a month ago, I changed the standard long fluorescent bulbs in my kitchen. These standard 40 watt long things now come in various degrees of "brightness". I got the bulbs with "daylight" brightness and almost had to wear sun glasses for the first couple of days.

As I am sure you know, the CFL bulbs also come with different brightness levels including "daylight".

Robert99

[smokin99 0]

  RobertMBlevins

*********This married father of two has been missing since Dec 1971 along with his plane...... AND even though the description is interesting - I'm not trying to connect this guy to Cooper - just another post showing that it's not impossible for bodies and planes or parachutes to disappear.

http://doenetwork.org/cases/3549dmmb.html

http://www.thompsoncitizen.net/article/20121207/THOMPSON0107/312079998/-1/thompson/the-case-of-the-missing-aviator-winnipeg-engineer-jim-macdonald

Checking the articles, I think it's obvious why they never found him and perhaps what happened. It was -30 degrees Celsius on takeoff and there are several just HUGE lakes between the Thompson airport and Winnepeg.

Possible cause of crash: Icing.

Possible location of aircraft: Bottom of one of the lakes.

Why use Occam logic when a conspiracy theory is possible?

Bottom of a lake is so less interesting than the dark side of the moon.

377

Have you read the book Hatchet? Good one. Pilot in that same area of Canada has a heart attack and dies at the controls. 13-year-old boy with him just keeps on going until the plane runs out of gas and crashes into a lake.

I think my son had to read that in school...The kid has to survive in the wilderness for a while. Seems like I remember having to read parts of it to help with a book report - probably the night before it was due. I remember being glad it wasn't one of those really long and tedious ones.

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[smokin99 0]

  FLYJACK

...... My understanding is that the hijacker left no handwriting,,,
..

That we know of. Some of us in Cooperville hold out hope that the FBI is holding something back. You know, like the FBI guys do on tv.
Larry Carr almost alluded to this in his interview...but his answer kind of meandered off and he did not commit.

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[FLYJACK 768]

somebody just sold a DB Cooper $20 bill on Pawn Stars for $1600, had an agents initials on it.. (rerun episode)

initials look like MUT or MUJ

Funny, Rick said hey if they find all the rest of the money this bill would be worth nothing,, RIGHT,,,

[smokin99 0]

  FLYJACK

somebody just sold a DB Cooper $20 bill on Pawn Stars for $1600, had an agents initials on it.. (rerun episode)

initials look like MUT or MUJ

Funny, Rick said hey if they find all the rest of the money this bill would be worth nothing,, RIGHT,,,

Looks like one without a serial number....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JKbhPdo-ZY

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[georger 264]

  FLYJACK

***One of the first things you will have to establish about your suspect is availability at the time of the crime. In other words, you could have all the circumstantial evidence in the world, but without some placement, or opportunity to do the crime, it's a tough sell.

EXAMPLE: Let's say you run up a bunch of evidence on a suspect, but then after interviewing friends and family of the suspect you discover without a doubt they were all together eating Thanksgiving, etc.

Yes...sooner or later you will have to begin exploring the friends/family/other possible witness angles.

Thanksgiving at that time in Nov is a US only date,,, a foreigner would not recognize it,

Don't you think a personal document with fingerprints and possible DNA would work. after this amount of time has passed that is all we can do, . I have tried to track him back in the 1970-72 time frame and I just can't confirm anything,, too much time has passed. Everyone is dead. His culture was primarily french... I have spent hours and hours translating french documents..

I do have copies of his handwriting in english and in french. My understanding is that the hijacker left no handwriting,,,


..

So far you have posed several 'what-ifs'.

What-if Custer had been a transvestite?

Would the women have poked out his ear drums to clarify
his hearing ability ... in the next world reincarnation?

Do you eat buffalo?

What-if ?

What-if Tom Kaye's particles are a plant!?

[georger 264]

  RobertMBlevins

I don't blame Flyjack for holding back on certain things until he's ready to present them.

Believe it or not, sometimes hostility pops up around here.

  Quote

"No....REALLY?"

That was quick!

Maybe wait till Ive clicked the post button next time BEFORE
you post ????

Do my posts appear in your time zone BEFORE IVE EVEN CLICKED THE BUTTON HERE ?

more what-ifs!

....

dont you have a JOB or something? Monitor here 24/7 ...

$1000 from you moma? How old are you! ???

dont you have a JOB or something?

why do you post all of your personal laundry here - ?

Pretty tacky!

[smokin99 0]

  RobertMBlevins

******...... My understanding is that the hijacker left no handwriting,,,
..

That we know of. Some of us in Cooperville hold out hope that the FBI is holding something back. You know, like the FBI guys do on tv.
Larry Carr almost alluded to this in his interview...but his answer kind of meandered off and he did not commit.

Oh, no. You ARE on the right path with this assumption. This is standard practice, to hold a couple of important details from the public. Reason of course is to help establish the validity of a suspect later.

For example (oh, no...here he goes again... ) if the Seattle FBI were to bring in Helen Jones, her daughter, Mrs. Geestman, Dawn Andrusko (Bernie's sister) and Carolyn Tyner...and questioned them with Bernie Geestman in the next room...and it turned out that Mr Geestman tried to confess to his knowledge on a certain hijacking...that the FBI would ask him questions only someone who was involved would know the answers to.

Ah...he never will, and THEY never will I think.

Yes i realize they do this...or so they say. But I'm actually thinking more along the lines of definitive evidence. All Bernie has to say (lol..or let his lawyer say for him) is "I don't know what in the hell you're talking about". Then sit back and let them prove it.

Not that they couldn't come close to ruling someone out or have someone with a greater than usual probability, but just my opinion - I do not believe the FBI will consider this case closed without some type of positive forensic evidence. Something along the lines of fingerprints, dna, or being in possession of a piece of evidence.

He says, she says - again, just my opinion, but add to that a lack of documentation that backs up the circumstantial -- I just don't think anything that your witnesses have said would be enough evidence to indict, let alone convict someone. But I could be wrong....

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[FLYJACK 768]

  georger

******One of the first things you will have to establish about your suspect is availability at the time of the crime. In other words, you could have all the circumstantial evidence in the world, but without some placement, or opportunity to do the crime, it's a tough sell.

EXAMPLE: Let's say you run up a bunch of evidence on a suspect, but then after interviewing friends and family of the suspect you discover without a doubt they were all together eating Thanksgiving, etc.

Yes...sooner or later you will have to begin exploring the friends/family/other possible witness angles.

Thanksgiving at that time in Nov is a US only date,,, a foreigner would not recognize it,

Don't you think a personal document with fingerprints and possible DNA would work. after this amount of time has passed that is all we can do, . I have tried to track him back in the 1970-72 time frame and I just can't confirm anything,, too much time has passed. Everyone is dead. His culture was primarily french... I have spent hours and hours translating french documents..

I do have copies of his handwriting in english and in french. My understanding is that the hijacker left no handwriting,,,


..

So far you have posed several 'what-ifs'.

What-if Custer had been a transvestite?

Would the women have poked out his ear drums to clarify
his hearing ability ... in the next world reincarnation?

Do you eat buffalo?

What-if ?

What-if Tom Kaye's particles are a plant!?



sure that is how you get to a suspect, especially 42 years later, what-ifs.. it is a long shot,, narrow the pool..

so, what-if the prints and DNA from my suspect match the hijacker and I don't pursue it for fear of being wrong,,,

this is the type of thing that will (could) eventually break this...

has any foreign suspect ever been identified??

...

[smokin99 0]

  FLYJACK

*********One of the first things you will have to establish about your suspect is availability at the time of the crime. In other words, you could have all the circumstantial evidence in the world, but without some placement, or opportunity to do the crime, it's a tough sell.

EXAMPLE: Let's say you run up a bunch of evidence on a suspect, but then after interviewing friends and family of the suspect you discover without a doubt they were all together eating Thanksgiving, etc.

Yes...sooner or later you will have to begin exploring the friends/family/other possible witness angles.

Thanksgiving at that time in Nov is a US only date,,, a foreigner would not recognize it,

Don't you think a personal document with fingerprints and possible DNA would work. after this amount of time has passed that is all we can do, . I have tried to track him back in the 1970-72 time frame and I just can't confirm anything,, too much time has passed. Everyone is dead. His culture was primarily french... I have spent hours and hours translating french documents..

I do have copies of his handwriting in english and in french. My understanding is that the hijacker left no handwriting,,,


..

So far you have posed several 'what-ifs'.

What-if Custer had been a transvestite?

Would the women have poked out his ear drums to clarify
his hearing ability ... in the next world reincarnation?

Do you eat buffalo?

What-if ?

What-if Tom Kaye's particles are a plant!?



sure that is how you get to a suspect, especially 42 years later, what-ifs.. it is a long shot,, narrow the pool..

so, what-if the prints and DNA from my suspect match the hijacker and I don't pursue it for fear of being wrong,,,

this is the type of thing that will (could) eventually break this...

has any foreign suspect ever been identified??

...

I would imagine so, but that is a guess. The number of people they have investigated is pretty high -- or so I've read. We just talk about the ones (investigated or not) that have been made high profile through books or net gossip. As far as I know all of the familiar ones are American - though again I can't say that with 100% certainty.

Edited to add - ckret dismissed the idea of cooper being Canadian once on the forum. But he did it as kind of a joke, as in "Canadian - no they are too nice".
But I don't know if being a foreigner was instant disqualification in the day.
Or how much ckret knew about all of the different suspects. He was always big on saying that he was not re-investigating the case - just presenting what he had found. So it's possible, I guess that he was only interested in the facts of the case and not all of the particulars of everyone who had ever been investigated.

I get your quandry - you want to have enough to give them to break through their profile mindset so they will use their resources to vet him.

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[FLYJACK 768]

  smokin99

***

sure that is how you get to a suspect, especially 42 years later, what-ifs.. it is a long shot,, narrow the pool..

so, what-if the prints and DNA from my suspect match the hijacker and I don't pursue it for fear of being wrong,,,

this is the type of thing that will (could) eventually break this...

has any foreign suspect ever been identified??

...

I would imagine so, but that is a guess. The number of people they have investigated is pretty high -- or so I've read. We just talk about the ones (investigated or not) that have been made high profile through books or net gossip. As far as I know all of the familiar ones are American - though again I can't say that with 100% certainty.

Edited to add - ckret dismissed the idea of cooper being Canadian once on the forum. But he did it as kind of a joke, as in "Canadian - no they are too nice".
But I don't know if being a foreigner was instant disqualification in the day.
Or how much ckret knew about all of the different suspects. He was always big on saying that he was not re-investigating the case - just presenting what he had found. So it's possible, I guess that he was only interested in the facts of the case and not all of the particulars of everyone who had ever been investigated.

I get your quandry - you want to have enough to give them to break through their profile mindset so they will use their resources to vet him.

Exactly, I have even considered getting the document independently analyzed for prints and DNA on my dime and send the results to the FBI,, my suspect is dead so no prosecution...

[smokin99 0]

They might not have been totally against looking at a foreigner. I just remembered that at one point they were looking at a suspect who had pulled off an airplane extortion overseas - Australia, Qantas, bomb, money, similar suspect - Not sure how much they invested in this avenue.
I will have to look up the particulars.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1300&dat=19710805&id=QPc0AAAAIBAJ&sjid=uZADAAAAIBAJ&pg=2152,580198

edited to add - I think this guy and his partners eventually got caught. Just posting it to show that, even with the non-accent, they might have checked out non-Americans if there was a reason to.

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[mrshutter45 21]

"Exactly, I have even considered getting the document independently analyzed for prints and DNA on my dime and send the results to the FBI,, my suspect is dead so no prosecution..."

I don't think they would do much to him if they did catch him. I seem to recall a man who shot and killed a police officer years ago. someone found the gun he used and matched him to the shooting. the guy was so clean he didn't even have any traffic infractions. they gave him probation I believe. I think the crime happened in the 50's and he was caught not long ago.

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[smokin99 0]

  RobertMBlevins

I think if Cooper turns out to be Canadian, it's a long shot. If you live in Washington State as I do, it's really easy to spot when someone is Canadian. I've been to BC and Alberta on extended trips, and although they don't really have an accent per se, you can still tell they are from Canada.

They can't help themselves with certain mannerisms and speech inflections, such as their constant use of the phrase 'Eh?' It's nearly universal and comes out of their mouths all the time. Now I haven't been to eastern Canada and these things may not apply to non-French descent Canadians living out there. Only people familiar with eastern Canadians can answer that one.

The stews said 'no discernable accent,' along with 'possibly from the Midwest,' which is pretty general all around.

You know, if you really think about it...the FBI was definitely caught off-guard by Cooper and missed some really important things, especially when Flight 305 was still sitting on the ground in Seattle. For example, they could have slipped Tina Mucklow a small camera when she came out for the money and the parachutes, and asked her to try and snap a quick no-flash photo of Cooper when he wasn't looking directly at her, or perhaps when he was busy putting on the chute. Or...they could have complied with Cooper's request to lower the airstairs before takeoff, and then tell him the plane could now NOT take off until the stairs were raised again. This would have given them more time to come up with a better plan to track the flight. They could have packaged the money in two containers, one small, one large, with the smaller one able to pick up prints. The idea being that Cooper would transfer the money to the larger bag, leaving his prints on the smaller one. Or...Mucklow could have taken any money offered to her, slipped it into her pocket, and then let the FBI take prints from it later. There are many what-if's in the Cooper case. Maybe that's just a couple of them.

I might be wrong but I believe that the FBI had little to do with the case at that point. From most available documentation, it seems that Northwest was calling the shots with input from the FAA. The FBI was maybe not on the periphery but pretty darn close. At least that's my impression form the documentation.
The transcripts suggest that Northwest was clearly not going to risk putting people in more danger than they were already in and wanted nothing done that would jeopardize the crew. Give him the frickiin money and let him jump out of the plane and hope that no one is harmed in the process.

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[smokin99 0]

  RobertMBlevins

I think if Cooper turns out to be Canadian, it's a long shot.

lol...say what?
If he turns out to be Canadian there's like a 100% chance that he is Canadian. I wish they had long shots like that in the lottery.
I'm just not throwing it out. Like I said - a google search of folks will turn up a long list of people I would have thought were American were it not for their bios. Additionally, no colloquialisms or regional slang were used - maybe that was by design.

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[MarkBennett 5]

  RobertMBlevins

I think if Cooper turns out to be Canadian, it's a long shot. If you live in Washington State as I do, it's really easy to spot when someone is Canadian. I've been to BC and Alberta on extended trips, and although they don't really have an accent per se, you can still tell they are from Canada.

They can't help themselves with certain mannerisms and speech inflections, such as their constant use of the phrase 'Eh?' It's nearly universal and comes out of their mouths all the time. Now I haven't been to eastern Canada and these things may not apply to non-French descent Canadians living out there. Only people familiar with eastern Canadians can answer that one.

The stews said 'no discernable accent,' along with 'possibly from the Midwest,' which is pretty general all around.

You know, if you really think about it...the FBI was definitely caught off-guard by Cooper and missed some really important things, especially when Flight 305 was still sitting on the ground in Seattle. For example, they could have slipped Tina Mucklow a small camera when she came out for the money and the parachutes, and asked her to try and snap a quick no-flash photo of Cooper when he wasn't looking directly at her, or perhaps when he was busy putting on the chute. Or...they could have complied with Cooper's request to lower the airstairs before takeoff, and then tell him the plane could now NOT take off until the stairs were raised again. This would have given them more time to come up with a better plan to track the flight. They could have packaged the money in two containers, one small, one large, with the smaller one able to pick up prints. The idea being that Cooper would transfer the money to the larger bag, leaving his prints on the smaller one. Or...Mucklow could have taken any money offered to her, slipped it into her pocket, and then let the FBI take prints from it later. There are many what-if's in the Cooper case. Maybe that's just a couple of them.

Robert,
We don't know what the FBI said to Tina when she got off the plane. It seems highly unlikely they said nothing to her. They needed to assess the risk of the rest of the passengers and crew and instruct her on what to do to make sure the hijacker didn't panic.

I know we've been down this path before, but they also might have asked her to make note of any identifying characteristics of the hijacker. You might prefer one of the passengers descriptions to Tina's, but having a chance to be coached by the FBI would give her description the best chance to be the most accurate.

[FLYJACK 768]

  RobertMBlevins

I think if Cooper turns out to be Canadian, it's a long shot. If you live in Washington State as I do, it's really easy to spot when someone is Canadian. I've been to BC and Alberta on extended trips, and although they don't really have an accent per se, you can still tell they are from Canada.

They can't help themselves with certain mannerisms and speech inflections, such as their constant use of the phrase 'Eh?' It's nearly universal and comes out of their mouths all the time. Now I haven't been to eastern Canada and these things may not apply to non-French descent Canadians living out there. Only people familiar with eastern Canadians can answer that one.

The stews said 'no discernable accent,' along with 'possibly from the Midwest,' which is pretty general all around.

A long shot, It has been 42 years, it is going to take a long shot now,,

Canadians do not say "eh", that is an exaggerated stereotype, I am Canadian and nobody I know ever says "eh', the rare ones that do are "Canadian rednecks", the majority of Canadians have a neutral accent, there are some severe regional dialects, especially from the East coast, but my family is french Canadian here on the West Coast and they have no accent.. in fact at the time of the hijacking there was a very large french Canadian (military) community 3 hours north of Seattle, the ones I knew of spoke english without an accent. You might be able to detect an odd use of a word after a lengthy conversation, but not in short brief verbal hijacking demands...

like "negotiable American currency".. << EITHER THAT DIDN"T HAPPEN OR COOPER WAS A FOREIGNER

In broadcasting, Canadians are known for their neutral accent.. but I never confirmed my suspect was Canadian...


Edit: it would be same as assuming all Americans use "y'all" in every other sentence..
..

[smokin99 0]

  MarkBennett

***I think if Cooper turns out to be Canadian, it's a long shot. If you live in Washington State as I do, it's really easy to spot when someone is Canadian. I've been to BC and Alberta on extended trips, and although they don't really have an accent per se, you can still tell they are from Canada.

They can't help themselves with certain mannerisms and speech inflections, such as their constant use of the phrase 'Eh?' It's nearly universal and comes out of their mouths all the time. Now I haven't been to eastern Canada and these things may not apply to non-French descent Canadians living out there. Only people familiar with eastern Canadians can answer that one.

The stews said 'no discernable accent,' along with 'possibly from the Midwest,' which is pretty general all around.

You know, if you really think about it...the FBI was definitely caught off-guard by Cooper and missed some really important things, especially when Flight 305 was still sitting on the ground in Seattle. For example, they could have slipped Tina Mucklow a small camera when she came out for the money and the parachutes, and asked her to try and snap a quick no-flash photo of Cooper when he wasn't looking directly at her, or perhaps when he was busy putting on the chute. Or...they could have complied with Cooper's request to lower the airstairs before takeoff, and then tell him the plane could now NOT take off until the stairs were raised again. This would have given them more time to come up with a better plan to track the flight. They could have packaged the money in two containers, one small, one large, with the smaller one able to pick up prints. The idea being that Cooper would transfer the money to the larger bag, leaving his prints on the smaller one. Or...Mucklow could have taken any money offered to her, slipped it into her pocket, and then let the FBI take prints from it later. There are many what-if's in the Cooper case. Maybe that's just a couple of them.

Robert,
We don't know what the FBI said to Tina when she got off the plane. It seems highly unlikely they said nothing to her. They needed to assess the risk of the rest of the passengers and crew and instruct her on what to do to make sure the hijacker didn't panic.

I know we've been down this path before, but they also might have asked her to make note of any identifying characteristics of the hijacker. You might prefer one of the passengers descriptions to Tina's, but having a chance to be coached by the FBI would give her description the best chance to be the most accurate.

Again. I will have to refresh my memory, but I don't think the FBI gave Tina the money. I think Al Lee of Northwest gave the money to Tina. Not saying that he couldn't pass on something from the FBI, but, basically it seems the Northwest objective was to facilitate the transaction without anyone getting hurt.

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[smokin99 0]

  FLYJACK

..... but I never confirmed my suspect was Canadian...

..

can't blame a girl for trying.....

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[FLYJACK 768]

  smokin99

***..... but I never confirmed my suspect was Canadian...

..

can't blame a girl for trying.....

No you can't do that,, my suspect lived in several countries.. if that helps..

[skyjack71 0]

  EVickiW

***I couldn't down load the image but I will attach the one I am referencing. I believe this was on a program that hired their own sketch artist. The staff got really put out with the guy as he did NOT seem to be listening to them

Florence was trying to describe an abnomality of the hair line - little peaks. The artist could think NOTHING but Widow peak - the witness were put completely out and that is the last interview Tina and Florence participated in - due to the problems that occured and what was aired. Now this may not be the composite you posted but it is the one I am referrencing. If this is not the artist rendention you are referring to please let me know.

Note I said Artist Rendention not Forensic artist. Florence was very upset and so was the crew. Seems this may have been the time they were trying to pin the crime on Mayfield and so the composite was made to look more like Mayfield.

It was never widely published because there WAS no peak like the one the artist did & used on the program.
What Florence was trying to describe was little peaks - an irregularity in the hair line...the artist called it a widows peak and I do NOT think the crew EVER did another program after that one. The program was TOO privatized to publicize a specific suspect. All of them were dismayed at the composite used. In other words the crew felt discredited by the program.

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Yes Jo. That is the sketch. However, I remember the episode and Florence stared at the sketch with a solemn look on her face when it was shown. She said something similar to...That is him, that is the guy. If the sketch did not look like what she was trying to depict,, why was she so adamant about confirming the artists rendition? Unfortunately the episode was pulled from YouTube.

I was on such a program myself and what they wanted me to say and what was real were too different thing - I GOT up and WALKED out of the room. They were coaching me and that is what they probably did with her. They kept TELLING me what to say - and I turned around and said "that's not what I am saying". They probably cut me from the entire thing with Doug PASTERNAC speaking for me...I never watched it.

I believe what she was saying was only in reference to the face - NOT the HAIR line as I was told she ke-pt telling the artist - "NO that is NOT correct - the hair line wasn't like that it had little peaks" - but the artist and the show used what they wanted.

This was RELAYED to me by the co-pilot YRS AND YRS ago. In the clip DID YOU see her point at the composite and SAY that is it...in otherwords could you see both the composite and Florence in the same FRAME?! I was told she was very distressed.

The witnesses had a very difficult time with the artist!

The TV programs at that time were ALL about sensationalism. Actually they still are.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[smokin99 0]

  FLYJACK

******..... but I never confirmed my suspect was Canadian...

..

can't blame a girl for trying.....

No you can't do that,, my suspect lived in several countries.. if that helps..

lol...oh yea that definitely helps.

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill