georger 258
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snowmman 3
Everyone laugh because that is a strange reply for Georger - Georger - did you fall on your head laughing.
No Duane was never a boxer
REPLY: Jo, can you tell me simply "why" you want
Duane to have been Cooper?
Georger
I'm in the process of trying to get a 1971 NWA flight timetable so we can debate the flights and NWA's '71 stable of planes more intelligently. (I think DC-10, 707, 747, 727 at the time). I'm wondering if arguably the choice of 727 was random by Cooper (the whole stairs plan seems to have been created on the fly)...If we think he's Portland/WA local, 727 may have just been default. If we agree he's inexperienced jumper, why would he be intelligent about jet exit stairs vs door? Cini apparently wasn't (DC-8). The next Cooper wannabe wasn't (707). Wonder if this concept of Cooper "choosing" 727 is just myth.
So then I thought, if I have an actual '71 flight timetable from NWA, and I have the FBI fingerprint card from Ckret for Duane...then I should be able to get the right technology to put a false set of Duane's prints on the '71 flight timetable. While difficult, I read somewhere that prints that old could still be lifted.
Jo: what would that be worth? I would think a bunch.
Orange1 0
Jo, can you tell me simply "why" you want
Duane to have been Cooper?
Now, that would be an interesting answer. I suspect you won't get a proper one i.e. in terms of "why" ... just something along the lines of she "knows" that he was. She may even deny "wanting" Duane to have been Cooper (even though that fact seems obvious to most of us).
I personally think that the real answer to that question would explain an awful lot. I have my own theory on it, but seeing as I don't have an MA in clinical pysch, or am even a Texas cop, it certainly wouldn't be coming from someone considered "good enough" to theorize...
Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.
snowmman 3
I was really scratching my head when it was suggested that Duane's commutation had any meaning or suggested anything. Why? because no data on the rates of state commutations was presented. I found a paper outlining all the federal clemencies by presidents. There's a lot per president. Like >thousand for some. Did people realize that?
(FDR: 3687, Nixon:926) (clemencies include commutations + pardons + ...)
http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/pardonspres1.htm
But at the state level, the data's harder to find.
(edit) http://www.arkansasleader.com/frontstories/st_08_11_04/huckabee8.html
addresses Huckabee..showing state clemencies from '96-'04.
MO: 69, OK: 178, AR: 703, LA: 213, MS: 24, TN: 32, TX: 98.
Here's a specific example from Oregon '69-'74. And it's not including pardons.
Seems like there were 77 commutations in OR over the period of '69 thru '74. This all makes me think state commutations are a lot more common than us non-prison-system-aware folk realize. We hear about clemency for murderers in the papers, but not the more mundane stuff (like Duane's).
http://arcweb.sos.state.or.us/governors/McCall/mccalllcclem.html
11. Commutations Granted, 1969-1974.
12. Commutation, Warren Anspaugh.
13. Commutation, Ernest Avery.
14. Commutation, Frank Baird.
15. Commutation, Melvin Bray.
16. Commutation, Hiram Campbell.
17. Commutation, Stephen Chochrek.
18. Commutation, Arthur Clawson.
19. Commutation, Charles Cornelius.
20. Commutation, Charles Dawson.
21. Commutation, Helen Drayton.
22. Commutation, Wendell DeLorme.
23. Commutation, Elmer Dixon.
24. Commutation, Edward Easter.
25. Commutation, Arnold Eaton.
26. Commutation, Thomas Elliott.
27. Commutation, Frank Erickson.
28. Commutation, Ben Fleischman.
29. Commutation, Lane Fletcher.
30. Commutation, Arden Foster.
31. Commutation, Jerome Foster.
32. Commutation, Thomas Gardner.
33. Commutation, Leroy George.
34-35. Commutation, Billy Glover.
36. Commutation, John Goodall.
37. Commutation, Gerald Guffey.
38. Commutation, Robert Gruver.
39. Commutation, Henry Hale
40. Commutation, Marvin Hamilton.
41. Commutation, Joseph Hard.
42. Commutation, Edward Harris.
43. Commutation, Dale Helmick.
44. Commutation, Jerry Hollingsworth.
45. Commutation, Kenneth Hovey.
46. Commutation, Arthur Huff.
47. Commutation, Ronald Jennings.
48. Commutation, Stanley Johnson.
49. Commutation, Michael Joseph.
50. Commutation, Tom Keffer.
51. Commutation, William Kent.
52. Commutation, Keith Lee.
53. Commutation, Gordon Little.
54. Commutation, Curtis Lockwood
Box 3
1. Commutation, Albert Mario.
2. Commutation, Leroy McCauley.
3. Commutation, Ervin McDonald.
4. Commutation, Walter McNair.
5. Commutation, Robert Meyer.
6. Commutation, Thomas Moore.
7. Commutation, Lynne Nichols.
8. Commutation, Joseph O'Brien.
9. Commutation, Gene Oland.
10. Commutation, Rudolph Oliver.
11. Commutation, Verne Peterson.
12. Commutation, Dellmar Phillips.
13. Commutation, Robert Phipps.
14. Commutation, Stephen Pieroni.
15. Commutation, William Reeves.
16. Commutation, David Rhoten.
17. Commutation, Arnold Robbins.
18. Commutation, Stanley Rose.
19. Commutation, Mary Rowley.
20. Commutation, Marvin Ryan.
21. Commutation, Douglas Schelin.
22. Commutation, Wesley Sieckmann.
23. Commutation, David Skrelunas.
24. Commutation, Larry Slopak.
25. Commutation, Ernest Smith.
26. Commutation, Mark Smith.
27. Commutation, Wayne Stewart.
28. Commutation, Killes Teel.
29. Commutation, Tracy Thompson.
30. Commutation, Irene Van Kleeck.
31. Commutation, Van Wallach.
32. Commutation, Billy White.
33. Commutation, Peter Wiley.
34. Commutation, Albert Wilhelm.
35. Commutation, Eddie William.
Most likely the commutation meant Duane was relatively benign as a criminal.
(FDR: 3687, Nixon:926) (clemencies include commutations + pardons + ...)
http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/pardonspres1.htm
But at the state level, the data's harder to find.
(edit) http://www.arkansasleader.com/frontstories/st_08_11_04/huckabee8.html
addresses Huckabee..showing state clemencies from '96-'04.
MO: 69, OK: 178, AR: 703, LA: 213, MS: 24, TN: 32, TX: 98.
Here's a specific example from Oregon '69-'74. And it's not including pardons.
Seems like there were 77 commutations in OR over the period of '69 thru '74. This all makes me think state commutations are a lot more common than us non-prison-system-aware folk realize. We hear about clemency for murderers in the papers, but not the more mundane stuff (like Duane's).
http://arcweb.sos.state.or.us/governors/McCall/mccalllcclem.html
11. Commutations Granted, 1969-1974.
12. Commutation, Warren Anspaugh.
13. Commutation, Ernest Avery.
14. Commutation, Frank Baird.
15. Commutation, Melvin Bray.
16. Commutation, Hiram Campbell.
17. Commutation, Stephen Chochrek.
18. Commutation, Arthur Clawson.
19. Commutation, Charles Cornelius.
20. Commutation, Charles Dawson.
21. Commutation, Helen Drayton.
22. Commutation, Wendell DeLorme.
23. Commutation, Elmer Dixon.
24. Commutation, Edward Easter.
25. Commutation, Arnold Eaton.
26. Commutation, Thomas Elliott.
27. Commutation, Frank Erickson.
28. Commutation, Ben Fleischman.
29. Commutation, Lane Fletcher.
30. Commutation, Arden Foster.
31. Commutation, Jerome Foster.
32. Commutation, Thomas Gardner.
33. Commutation, Leroy George.
34-35. Commutation, Billy Glover.
36. Commutation, John Goodall.
37. Commutation, Gerald Guffey.
38. Commutation, Robert Gruver.
39. Commutation, Henry Hale
40. Commutation, Marvin Hamilton.
41. Commutation, Joseph Hard.
42. Commutation, Edward Harris.
43. Commutation, Dale Helmick.
44. Commutation, Jerry Hollingsworth.
45. Commutation, Kenneth Hovey.
46. Commutation, Arthur Huff.
47. Commutation, Ronald Jennings.
48. Commutation, Stanley Johnson.
49. Commutation, Michael Joseph.
50. Commutation, Tom Keffer.
51. Commutation, William Kent.
52. Commutation, Keith Lee.
53. Commutation, Gordon Little.
54. Commutation, Curtis Lockwood
Box 3
1. Commutation, Albert Mario.
2. Commutation, Leroy McCauley.
3. Commutation, Ervin McDonald.
4. Commutation, Walter McNair.
5. Commutation, Robert Meyer.
6. Commutation, Thomas Moore.
7. Commutation, Lynne Nichols.
8. Commutation, Joseph O'Brien.
9. Commutation, Gene Oland.
10. Commutation, Rudolph Oliver.
11. Commutation, Verne Peterson.
12. Commutation, Dellmar Phillips.
13. Commutation, Robert Phipps.
14. Commutation, Stephen Pieroni.
15. Commutation, William Reeves.
16. Commutation, David Rhoten.
17. Commutation, Arnold Robbins.
18. Commutation, Stanley Rose.
19. Commutation, Mary Rowley.
20. Commutation, Marvin Ryan.
21. Commutation, Douglas Schelin.
22. Commutation, Wesley Sieckmann.
23. Commutation, David Skrelunas.
24. Commutation, Larry Slopak.
25. Commutation, Ernest Smith.
26. Commutation, Mark Smith.
27. Commutation, Wayne Stewart.
28. Commutation, Killes Teel.
29. Commutation, Tracy Thompson.
30. Commutation, Irene Van Kleeck.
31. Commutation, Van Wallach.
32. Commutation, Billy White.
33. Commutation, Peter Wiley.
34. Commutation, Albert Wilhelm.
35. Commutation, Eddie William.
Most likely the commutation meant Duane was relatively benign as a criminal.
377 22
Snowmman,
Again, your research skills are impressive. Federal (presidential) clemency is often political in nature e.g. Patty Hearst, Scooter Libby, Richard Nixon etc.
When you consider how many felony convictions there are on the state level every year, the commutation numbers you published are an incredibly small percentage.
I have polled a number of friends who still practice criminal defense and they say commutations by state governors, at least in this area, are EXTREMELY rare and are not routinely given just because someone is considered low risk etc. These guys have been practicing for decades and not one of them ever had a client receive a commutation of sentence. Prisoners with time on their hands apply for clemency, flood the courts with writs, etc etc. Most of them get nowhere. If they get traction, there is a reason.
I still think Duane, with his recidivism, was a terrible candidate for a commutation. Too risky and more importantly, NO GAIN FOR THE GOV. Duane was not the son of a big contributor nor was he an upright citizen who had some technical skirmish with the law, like an accounting/financial reporting crime that resulted in no personal gain.
I still think there is a story there and it involves Duane having something that he could trade. What was it?
377
Again, your research skills are impressive. Federal (presidential) clemency is often political in nature e.g. Patty Hearst, Scooter Libby, Richard Nixon etc.
When you consider how many felony convictions there are on the state level every year, the commutation numbers you published are an incredibly small percentage.
I have polled a number of friends who still practice criminal defense and they say commutations by state governors, at least in this area, are EXTREMELY rare and are not routinely given just because someone is considered low risk etc. These guys have been practicing for decades and not one of them ever had a client receive a commutation of sentence. Prisoners with time on their hands apply for clemency, flood the courts with writs, etc etc. Most of them get nowhere. If they get traction, there is a reason.
I still think Duane, with his recidivism, was a terrible candidate for a commutation. Too risky and more importantly, NO GAIN FOR THE GOV. Duane was not the son of a big contributor nor was he an upright citizen who had some technical skirmish with the law, like an accounting/financial reporting crime that resulted in no personal gain.
I still think there is a story there and it involves Duane having something that he could trade. What was it?
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
No Duane was never a boxer
REPLY: Jo, can you tell me simply "why" you want
Duane to have been Cooper?
Georger
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