DB Cooper

[mrshutter45 21]

  Quote

A different perspective on Felix's leap.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=yFU774q6eVM

377

over 3 million hits in two days

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[skyjack71 0]

JO STATED:

  Quote

The brother told me about the Schematics to the 727 and other Boeings being all over the house.....because of what John did.

Robert 99 stated:

  Quote

Jo, This is nonsense. If John had those documents, which is very unlikely, then he stole them.

Call it what you want, but those are his words. John was an engineer - I do not know his employment record (that is for the FBI to know).

From the beginning of innovation,
not eveything in the past was done under controlled enviroments as it is today. An investigation of his (John's) background will be the only thing that can be used for you to make such a flagrant statement. You are attacking the credibility of a well known man who was loyal to his country - without actual knowledge of his involvement and the involvement of his associates.

I have explained the family connections to the company that provided the "paint" and engineered the "paint" used on the Boeings. Before you attack - investigate. Before you slander - know who and what you are talking about.

What DO YOU know about the development of Chemical Warfare for the Government during WWI. I expect U know nothing and I suggest you START there - then and only then will you find your answers.

These two things are connected and I will let you figure that one out on your own. I suggest you start with the development of Chemical Warfare in WW1.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[377 22]

Jo wrote

  Quote

not eveything in the past was done under controlled enviroments as it is today

Jo,

During the time that Boeing was developing the 727 they had a well established system to keep proprietary and classified info from being disclosed outside the company. It wasn't casual or informal.

The commercial airliner business was and still is highly competitive. Mfrs guard their new product technical details quite closely.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[skyjack71 0]

  Quote

Jo, one of your first moves about John should have been finding any information to support the "Boeing " link.

If I'm not mistaken the word "Schematic" typically means electrical drawings.

I agree with Robert99, those would be classified documents which would give us yet another Weber thief.

you yourself said John and Duane didn't get a long so how did he get a hold of the documents?

even if he had the drawings, did he know how to read them? they will not explain the rear stairs could be opened in flight.

Remember the Boeing 727 was on the drawing board for yrs before it finally went into productions. At one time I asked if anyone had a list of those invited to the grand display of the 1st Boeing 727....by the way - what yr was that. I am too lazy to look it up.
It happened in CA. didn't it? Was NOT all invited who participated in the final results?

I am sure Duane in 1971 found a way or already knew about the aft stairs. Duane mentioned a man to me who flew planes out of Thun and to Alaska and Vancouver, Canada. In this brief conversation he mention Burnaby and Bellingham and mentioned government contracts. Was this John's friend? How did Duane know him? I don't know - that is for the FBI to find out? I told the FBI about this and where to look for property records that may reveal the other man's name. I have tried to find this man, but with NO name and what little I have revealed above.

How was John and Duane connected to Boeing and this friend? Now you know about as much as I do about this mystery man and Duane's knowledge of him. I put this in the hands of the FBI many yrs ago - but, they do NOT acknowledge me or the things I provided to them. Of course I would later learn little to nothing of what I told Mr. H ever went to the FBI....

P.S. For 377:
Access to development and manufacturing:

The company providing and/or developing the exterior paint and finishes would have had the plans and/or Schematics. They would have been necessary for the development of the finish.

IS anyone smart enough out there to find out who developed and provided the paint and finishes? Bid's for contracts? Does anyone have enough moxie to obtain the names from Boeing of ALL individuals and Companies they received 'bids" from.

I go where NO one goes, but I need a little help. Perhaps this is the "clue" the FBI missed in looking for a SUSPECT! I have told this story over and over, but no one listens! I am just that old woman who is crazy, delusion and off her rocker, but sometimes even the FBI needs to listen to what I am trying to say, instead of looking through me or dismissing the things I have told them.

Have had a hard day and I am very tired.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[Robert99 55]

  Quote

JO STATED:

  Quote

The brother told me about the Schematics to the 727 and other Boeings being all over the house.....because of what John did.

Robert 99 stated:

  Quote

Jo, This is nonsense. If John had those documents, which is very unlikely, then he stole them.

Call it what you want, but those are his words. John was an engineer - I do not know his employment record (that is for the FBI to know).

From the beginning of innovation,
not eveything in the past was done under controlled enviroments as it is today. An investigation of his (John's) background will be the only thing that can be used for you to make such a flagrant statement. You are attacking the credibility of a well known man who was loyal to his country - without actual knowledge of his involvement and the involvement of his associates.

I have explained the family connections to the company that provided the "paint" and engineered the "paint" used on the Boeings. Before you attack - investigate. Before you slander - know who and what you are talking about.

What DO YOU know about the development of Chemical Warfare for the Government during WWI. I expect U know nothing and I suggest you START there - then and only then will you find your answers.

These two things are connected and I will let you figure that one out on your own. I suggest you start with the development of Chemical Warfare in WW1.

Jo, Let's speak frankly.

First, you don't know what you are talking about. Period!

You are blowing smoke about third hand versions of conversations that you have heard rumors of and those conversations may have never happened in the first place.

Second, you don't know anything about the aircraft industry, how it operates, how it has ever operated, how aircraft are designed, what engineers do in the design of aircraft, how aircraft are operated, etc., etc..

Third, to repeat, no one is going to have a copy of the schematics of an aircraft that is being developed under a major program in his home unless he stole them! Family "connections" wouldn't mean anything in this matter. Stealing proprietary information is still stealing!

Perhaps a story from Boeing's 707 design days will illustrate the above. When Boeing decided to design what became known as the 707, they set up restricted areas for the design team and the shop that hand built the original "Dash 80". Only approved people with special badges were allowed in these areas. They even used a mis-leading design number to help keep the project secret. One day the president of Boeing tried to enter one of these restricted areas without his special badge and he was refused entrance by the guards.

Fourth, your bringing up chemical warfare during WW1 doesn't have anything, repeat anything, to do with the production of aircraft post-WW2. This is just another of your attempts to distract everyone when you make meaningless and over-the-top statements.

Fifth, in your crusade to prove that you are really "Mrs. D. B. Cooper", you have not come up with a single piece of information that can survive the light of day. You have been trying to send everyone on more wild goose chases than there are probably wild geese in existence.

Sixth, in the search for the real D. B. Cooper, your actions are a hinderance rather than a help. It is very easy to see why you have so many problems with the FBI and others.

Robert99

[Farflung 0]

RobertMBlevins says without consideration of attribution or senior citizens:

“I was quoting Kittinger from the post-jump press conference.”

Oh really, cuz I don’t see any attribution or credit given to those brilliant and humble words, from Mr. Kittinger. I suppose Kittinger should have his words plagiarized and tossed around with reckless abandon, since he doesn’t matter as an 84 year old man. Apparently Kittinger is now to be submitted to the abuse which RobertMBlevins so generously served to Bernie (86 year old man). Wasn’t the fact that he spent almost a year in the ‘Hanoi Hilton’ enough punishment for any man to endure for a lifetime? Why must you steal his thoughts RobertMBlevins? Will the disrespect and abuse of senior citizens ever be abated? It would be polite and show manners to respect these twilight year men by not calling them liars, or viciously stealing their very words. Why does the world have to be so un-polite and manner-less?

When I read that un-attributed comment, stolen from Kittinger; I’d never wished more that there was a god in heaven, but I was never more certain that there wasn’t.

[mrshutter45 21]

Personally I don't even think working for Boeing is key, I would
tend to belive someone who was around the plane enough to put
two and two together, Vietnam vets, airport ground crew, they were
the ones who opened and closed it from the outside?

Vietnam vets had lots of grudges, while over there they hear the
hate from Americans calling them baby killers and spitting on
them once they got home.

much like the rest of the case, tons of variables

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[skyjack71 0]

  Quote

First, you don't know what you are talking about. Period!

You are blowing smoke about third hand versions of conversations that you have heard rumors of and those conversations may have never happened in the first place.

These are NOT 3rd person conversations or rumors and i am not blowing smoke.

  Quote

Third, to repeat, no one is going to have a copy of the schematics of an aircraft that is being developed under a major program in his home unless he stole them! Family "connections" wouldn't mean anything in this matter. Stealing proprietary information is still stealing!

NO one stole anything - there were subcontractors and you have to submit plans to get estimate or to create seating, paint and other things. Just how detailed these plans would be for such I do NOT know. BUT Boeing did NOT make it's own paint. Boeing did not weave fire deterent material for the upholstery nor did they manufacture the windows and other things.

  Quote

Fourth, your bringing up chemical warfare during WW1 doesn't have anything, repeat anything, to do with the production of aircraft post-WW2. This is just another of your attempts to distract everyone when you make meaningless and over-the-top statements.

Now what NERVE did I just hit with you? It is obvious that you KNOW what I am talking about regarding subcontractors and developers.

  Quote

Fifth, in your crusade to prove that you are really "Mrs. D. B. Cooper", you have not come up with a single piece of information that can survive the light of day. You have been trying to send everyone on more wild goose chases than there are probably wild geese in existence.

Really - you think I am smart enough to pull something like that off for 17 YRS! A little slow in seeing some things, I will admit to...but, that is ALL!

  Quote

Sixth, in the search for the real D. B. Cooper, your actions are a hinderance rather than a help. It is very easy to see why you have so many problems with the FBI and others.

AND you can do better? What have you ever come up with.

If I had the intellect and knowledge and know-how of this thread - I wouldn't be here asking stupid old woman questions!

IF I had NOT hit a nerve regarding the 727 development and/or some other things - I have stated - YOU would not have made the explosive remarks you just made.

After ALL what can a stupid old woman know that could help solve this case. Was her husband really Cooper or did he just know who WAS. The grudge thing was only a reply to Tina's question - just an ordinary answer to a question from a 21 yr old. Cooper made the reply most people would have made under the circumstances.

Perhaps my next statement could be my last statement, but your off-the-wall response to my REAL and SIMPLE questions and postings was Off the WALL.




Could the 1971 SKYJACKING of a Boeing 727 have been - a publicity stunt? Now that one you can get REAL upset about, because that is the first and only FAR-FETCHED suggestion I have ever made in this thread as of recent.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[BobKnoss 0]

From Boeings historical milestones....

"Dec. 11, 1967-- First 727-200 delivered; Northeast Airlines put it into service three days later."

'What if' discussions between pilots started a few weeks later. Pilot safety became an issue. Look it up.

Project Norjack was approved that winter/spring. Not quite a publicity stunt, but it comes mighty damned close by my estimations.

But I don't know a damned thing.

[Robert99 55]

  Quote

From Boeings historical milestones....

"Dec. 11, 1967-- First 727-200 delivered; Northeast Airlines put it into service three days later."

'What if' discussions between pilots started a few weeks later. Pilot safety became an issue. Look it up.

Project Norjack was approved that winter/spring. Not quite a publicity stunt, but it comes mighty damned close by my estimations.

But I don't know a damned thing.

Knoss, I'll take your word for the last sentence but your earlier comments need corrections.

The first flight of the Boeing 727 was on February 9, 1963 and it's first revenue flight was with Eastern Air Lines on February 1, 1964.

Robert99

[georger 258]

  Quote

Knoss took that strictly from Wiki, of course.

Are you a Republican, Knoss? No problem, but if so, I'll venture you won't like THIS.

There are more important things than Cooper sometimes. The future of America, for example.

(*insert evil laugh here*)

"If I'd observed all the rules, I'd never have got anywhere..."

Marilyn Monroe

QUADE HAS REQUESTED ALL POLITICAL STUFF BE
KEPT OUT OF THE THREAD - DID YOU MISS THAT?

WHY-OH-WHY DO YOU CONTINUE TO VIOLATE THAT
RULE !??? OVER AND OVER AGAIN ??? WHILE
OTHERS HAVE THEIR POLITICAL POSTS TAKEN
DOWN ?

WHAT MAKES YOU SPECIAL! ?

PLEASE REMOVE YOUR POLITICAL POST SO QUADE
WONT HAVE TO DO IT TOMORROW -

A COPY OF YOUR POST HAS BEEN SENT TO QUADE.

... but of course you wont until compelled to - because YOU are special.

[mrshutter45 21]

Mr Truth says:
"Dec. 11, 1967-- First 727-200 delivered; Northeast Airlines put it into service three days later."

Shutter says"
I don't think you know much since you took it right off of Boeing's site!

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/727family/timeline.html

I noticed most of your "super memory" and knowledge comes from copy/paste quotes!

personally I would be more worried about who is watching you and what you can not change in your past comments!

Matt says:
"He is being looked at, by those he says he will only talk to, but they aren't looking at a whistle blower. A criminal of a different sort.

Glad he is back, it helps a lot! Makes this easy! "

Bob says"
"But I don't know a damned thing."

Shutter says:
not the important things!

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[377 22]

Jo,

Boeing had in the 1950s and still has paint specs which suppliers must meet. Access to system schematics by paint suppliers wasn't and isn't needed.

See e.g. http://www.boeingsuppliers.com/environmental/high_solids.html

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[377 22]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqsGunPG4EE

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Amazon 7]

Trust me when I say this.... Certain mods get their panties all twisted up when ANYONE dares to make a post with anything about GUNS RELIGION OR POLITICS outside of the forum called Speakers Corner.

It all stems back to the free for all that was a forum called TalkBack. The powers that be split that forum into the Bonfire and Speakers Corner years ago by the mods here at the Animal Farm.

I once had the audacity to put a link to what one mod deemed to be an offensive political nature to his way of thinking in my sigline.. and he banned my sigline for life.

[georger 258]

  Quote

Trust me when I say this.... Certain mods get their panties all twisted up when ANYONE dares to make a post with anything about GUNS RELIGION OR POLITICS outside of the forum called Speakers Corner.

It all stems back to the free for all that was a forum called TalkBack. The powers that be split that forum into the Bonfire and Speakers Corner years ago by the mods here at the Animal Farm.

I once had the audacity to put a link to what one mod deemed to be an offensive political nature to his way of thinking in my sigline.. and he banned my sigline for life.

I happen to agree with that policy - there are
enough 'feuds' going on without the addition of
politics, religion, etc. So I strongly back Quade's
mandate on this. Some get sucked in not knowing
the policy, after someone who knows better posts
anyway. That is especially galling, to me (just my
personal take).

On a better note, Im interested in exactly when and
how Baumgartner started the spin, based on yours
and Farf's comments about this. But I have found no
exact timeline anywhere. I note the photos showing
Baum. head down arms out just prior to the spin,
and a general timeline which reads like this:

Not sure if any of this applies to Cooper (or the
recent Cash skydive program on Discovery)? I
wonder what you see and think ???

Time Altitude
0:00 (18.08 utc (39.045 kilometres (24.261
mi) Alt: 128k feet opens the door and jumps

00:40-42 approximately 30,000 metres (98,000
ft), reaches Mach 1.2 (834 mph)

0:42 reached maximum velocity of 1,342.8 k/h

1:15-2:00 (2:40?) entered an uncontrolled spin
- altitude?

3:30 approx successfully righted the spin, denser
air slows B.

So was in the spin for approx 2+ minutes from
altitude ? to altitude?

The spin I saw (gif attached) is head over heels, not
on a horizontal axis... ?

Photos and spin gif attached.

[Amazon 7]

I watched it live.. and noted that the voice feed had Felixbreathing pretty hard when the spin was going on. the video from the cameras he was wearing he was more in a flat spin on his back...not good not good at all

Trust me... getting unstable at high speeds can REALLLLY hurt. I have managed to do that a few times at speeds in excess of 250 MPH...Spins can kill... I know of more than one skydiver that did not make it after entering a spin and passing out

[Robert99 55]

  Quote

I watched it live.. and noted that the voice feed had Felixbreathing pretty hard when the spin was going on. the video from the cameras he was wearing he was more in a flat spin on his back...not good not good at all

Trust me... getting unstable at high speeds can REALLLLY hurt. I have managed to do that a few times at speeds in excess of 250 MPH...Spins can kill... I know of more than one skydiver that did not make it after entering a spin and passing out

Do you have a link to the cameras that he was wearing? I didn't see any video from them. And is there a link to the YouTube or Discovery Channel video?

Robert99

[Farflung 0]

Because I care too much, I have generously researched the landing zone where Felix the skydiver, the wonderful, wonderful skydiver; touched down.

After lifting off from the Roswell Intergalactic Airport and Global Freak Welcome Center, which has an elevation of 3671 feet, he landed at a spot which appears to be within 4440 to 4460 feet. That’s about 779 feet higher than where he launched.

I know this will be appreciated by many on this thread because it is about accuracy, validation, cross checking, source attribution and open source reviews which are utter unknowns on this thread, so I don’t know where I was going with that. Sorry, my bad.

[mrshutter45 21]

It should be very simple to prove John was connected to Boeing, tax returns, employment history, w-2's etc etc.
why would you not pursue a lead such as this?

"Could the 1971 SKYJACKING of a Boeing 727 have been - a publicity stunt?"
I'm guessing this was a joke?

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[377 22]

Felix exceeded the speed of light. MSNBC says so, so it must be true. The Lorentz contractions in that spin must have been awful. I know Georger will appreciate that joke.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/15/msnbc-felix-baumgartner-speed-of-light_n_1967878.html?ncid=wsc-huffpost-cards-headline

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[377 22]

Amazon wrote

  Quote

I watched it live.. and noted that the voice feed had Felixbreathing pretty hard when the spin was going on. the video from the cameras he was wearing he was more in a flat spin on his back...not good not good at all

Trust me... getting unstable at high speeds can REALLLLY hurt.

Been there Amazon. Got to do a test jump for SSK/CYPRES. I was outfitted with a black box full of pressure sensors and recorders. Exited from a firewalled C 130, est 270 knots.

I now know what its like to be put through a spin and tuble cycle in a washing machine. Whew.

They wanted data to see if a Cypres could be tricked into firing high in a violent spin tumble.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[quade 4]

  Quote

Trust me when I say this.... Certain mods get their panties all twisted up when ANYONE dares to make a post with anything about GUNS RELIGION OR POLITICS outside of the forum called Speakers Corner.

It all stems back to the free for all that was a forum called TalkBack. The powers that be split that forum into the Bonfire and Speakers Corner years ago by the mods here at the Animal Farm.

I once had the audacity to put a link to what one mod deemed to be an offensive political nature to his way of thinking in my sigline.. and he banned my sigline for life.

I try to be a bit cooler about it, but as anyone who has been around long enough knows, I have my limits.

At this point there is no excuse in this thread and the next occurrence by anyone will be grounds for a banning. Pretty long one too.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[377 22]

Quade wrote

  Quote

next occurrence by anyone will be grounds for a banning. Pretty long one too.

If bans for misbehavior can be "pretty long" don't you think Snowmman's ban has reached that point? How about letting him back Quade. He can help steer this drifting forum back into DBC related stuff.

We need more about Ted Braden and Sheridan Peterson to offset the Duane Weber and Bob Knoss subject matter dominance.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Farflung 0]

It turns out that a stabilization device was prototyped around the time of Kittinger’s jump. It was a three-axis unit called the GASP (Gyro Augmented Stabilization Pack) and is surprisingly small. Attached is a PDF file from the gubberment, with all kinds of declassification stamps to give bonerz to some, and it was published at Wright-Patterson AFB, where the Roswell Alien bodies and UFOs are stored, so the conspiracy psychos will have something to make them happy too.

http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/295627.pdf

It seems like this would have been a nice R&D device to have gone up in the Zenith with Felix. All the bombast and bluster this thread can create (and it creates mammoth amounts), won’t change the laws of physics, no matter how many times one makes claims to the contrary. In near space, you could send a contortionist, with eleven foot arms and legs, in a precise spread eagle configuration, and would accomplish nothing more than a bowling ball or sack of kitty litter could in regard to stabilization. But don’t let that detract from any barstool rebuttals; no.

I thought such a device could be spun up with some on-board gas with an inertial decay rate that is aligned with the increase of air density where it peters out at an altitude where there are hundreds of thousands of data points for control. Instead of Kittinger, Felix and some U-2 and SR-71 crewmembers who represent all the ‘jumps’ above the Armstrong Altitude.

I’ve gone the extra mile, once again and updated the name: Freefall Ancillary Recovery Force. I feel this name better reflects things that are both manly and desirable, which will still allow some (code for: chicks) to GASP. You’re welcome.