DB Cooper

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

Good point about the lag time, Jo. It is something to think about.

THANK YOU , THANK YOU, THANK YOU! I guess I just finally said it in a way so some one GOT IT!

Why I kept saying the route was not correct and slightly off. This was a result of a conversation with the co-pilot - but NO ONE heard me. Move the plane route very slightly NORTH and then it all make sense. How fast does the plane move in 1/2 minute or 1 minute. How quickly is the pilot relaying the information - not as it is is happening but delayed by as much as one minute.

There have been those who stated the plane went West of Vanouver - but then why did the pilot tell me something else - perhaps he didn't really know what was below him. Little do I know, but if I was relaying co-ordinates of where I was - over the waves. It has to happen first and then I say what I am doing or you could say it before it occurs, but NOT likely. I think those seconds COUNT. Those seconds (perhaps as much as 60 seconds) put the plane in the areas witnesses claimed to have heard or saw the plane.

This was how I justified what I kept trying to say and all I got was made fun of....so what does a dumb old lady know?

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[smokin99 0]

Quote

the simulator has limitations, one would be not being able to tell what she saw, the clouds will not be the same as they were in 1971 I can put weather into it but not exactly as that given nite.

Didn't buy the CIA-patented extra super deluxe version, huh? Oh well, we'll just have to make do.

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[Robert99 60]

Quote

Quote

Quote

if she was correct (let's say) this would mean he jumped in Oregon and not Washington.

lol....okay...since we're not having much luck in WA......

I'll admit it's been a while since I've looked at the maps so I'm probably not remembering correctly but I thought that the 8:10 "oscilliation/bump" put him in Oregon anyway.

the "pressure bump" was around Lake Merwin area, not around Portland or Janet's location, he could of been on the stairs a for some time I don't know. if he was timing things and Janet saw the flares you would think he would wait before jumping around PDX someone could have seen him coming down. I don't know?

[Robert99 60]

Quote

Quote

Don't forget the time the pilot is speaking and the time of the note taker on the ground may not be accurate. If the pilot is giving the time with each relay that would be fine. But, the only time I have ever read was the person on the ground taking the notes. Could be one minute behind. I have tried to relate this many times over but I was never heard.

For instant - pilot makes statement to ground control he would have to state the time 1st and the ground control would have to confirm the time otherwise the time could be off as much as 1 minute.

This was an argument I had with Sluggo when they did a RE-DO of the flight path. NO one seemed to understand what I was trying to say. Hopefully this time someone will.

The pilot relays the step are down, but where they not down before 7:44:22. Hence this is all back and forth talk - no one factors in the real human side of the conversation and the time lapse between steps down and time related by pilot and then to ground.

This is why the FBI was looking for Cooper - just below Lake Merwin and not in Vancouver. Relay time was NOT taken into consideration. I am just a layman do not know who to convey this in the manner that I think, but trying. The plane is moving as the pilot speaks.

I do not understand the HOW and WHY you guys do NOT know where Janet lived. Cook gave me the location she lived at in 1971, but I don't think I can put my hands on it. I marked it on a map and believe I wrote the cross streets down - he did NOT give a specific address. Just this far from this street and this far from this street. I have the general area circled - on a map.
If I feel like finding it I will post it. I will say near Millsplains - that seems to stand out in my mind. Hard to believe Janet would look up and see what NO ONE else did.

For her to have seen the plane from her location it would have had to have been the flight BEHIND Coopers because it was on approach to land at PDX and what she saw was probably the landing light. I lived near the Airport in Atlanta for 3 yrs.

lol...I didn't know where Janet lived because I don't live and breathe DB Cooper and my memory is very selective as to what I feel the need to retain. As the other 99 pointed out, some of us have lives.

You are right when you say to take into consideration the lag time. However, and I don't know this for certain, but seems like - if they were recording - the steps recorded were in sync with a timer. I've always assumed that as he's doing, he's talking, it's being recorded/typed and the recording/teletype is timed. At least that's my assumption. I could be wrong. However it's done though, even in the 70s I would have expected a little more precision than a lag time being a minute or more.

The Air Traffic Control communications are routinely taped with the times being embedded in the recording. Those times were read out and were displayed at the appropriate places in the ATC radio transcripts. These times are the most accurate that you will find in this matter.

Other times, such as those in the FBI notes and the messages that were sent through the ARINC radio system to NWA in Minneapolis, were definitely subject to time lags. In some cases, these ARINC messages were relayed from the hijacked airliner to other airliners, which then passed them to the ARINC system, and could have time lags of five minutes or more.

Finally, why would the airliner have its landing lights on under the conditions described (not for anti-collision purposes, at 10,000 feet, no where near an airport, etc.)?

Robert99

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

the "pressure bump" was around Lake Merwin area, not around Portland or Janet's location, he could of been on the stairs a for some time I don't know. if he was timing things and Janet saw the flares you would think he would wait before jumping around PDX someone could have seen him coming down. I don't know?

The bump was reported by communications. The bump happened before it was reported.
This also makes the plane just slightly to the EAST when the bump happened and there is a VERY VERY specific MARKER located in that area - a light you could see from a long ways up.

Two sitings I have always believed as it was 2 sister who were adult at the time. They both lived in different places near this Dam with one living near Cougar. They contacted the FBI in 1971 and were told what they heard was the chase planes and not the skyjacked plane. One of the women was like myself and knew what the small fast chase planes sounded like and there was no way you could confuse them with a large passenger plane.

The next siting of the plane just below Amboy and then another below that on 14 (4 people in that last one)....again these witnesses claimed it was very low at that time (they thought it was a plane having trouble because it was so low). This is just above Heisson on 14.

Hope I am getting the places and the roads straight because I do NOT pull the old records anymore - I just pull it out of mind and if I goof, I goof! No More Time for finding stuff - just have to take it for what it is worth of do a word search on my posts from WAY back.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[Farflung 0]

This will be a giant yawn to those who prefer to hammer out their realities by saying they have super secret or privileged information or think driving aimlessly in the field is somehow virtuous or of greater value. Nope, all ya need is a computer and internet access and you can follow along, share a few tears and who knows, maybe learn something along the way.

For this exercise I have selected a city absolutely free of any bias or braggadocio which is so favored by many on this thread. No need to live there or own property or any of the other BS which has been smeared across the screens via this thread. Of course I’m talking about Fresno, California. Take a look below:

http://www.airnav.com/airport/KFAT

This website is all about airports which are cool places you don’t even know. But I do because I’m so cool and strong. But Fresno is going to be a yardstick for this demonstration on distance and visual resolution. If you scroll down to runway information for 11L/29R you will see the dimensions listed as 9227 x 150 ft. Wow, that runway is just about as long as 305 was high in the air, that gives me boners. You see, airports are the ultimate level playing field because they are….. umm…. level by design. So looking down the runway of Fresno would be similar to looking down a wicked long yardstick to 305 flying directly overhead. See the numbers?

36.786776,-119.735216

Copy and paste them into Google maps. I said copy and paste. Now grab the street view dude and drop his electronic ass on the pip and orient yourself to look right down Fresno’s runway like you know what the hell you’re doing. Can you see it? I’ve added some graphics to help with orientation, distance and perspective. Can you see anything at the other end of the runway? That’s around 10,000 feet. OK, that’s not fair and makes you sad so let’s focus on something else.

If you scan to the right you may notice a large structure which it the tallest on the horizon. That’s Fresno’s control tower which is about 6,200 feet from the same location. Go ahead and zoom in on that thing and see how many people are in the tower. Can you see them? This is less than two thirds the distance 305 was away from Janet and it is day time. Any luck? OK, I’m still being all mean and un-nice so let’s try some place closer. Here’s some more numbers:

36.772537,-119.726901

Copy and paste that and spin round on baby right round till you see that tower again. Go ahead and zoom too. Can you see people? Imagine seeing any? Could you see them wave or do jumping jacks? This is a measly 1,500 feet away. Could you see a ladder or stairs or a billboard if it was on the tower?

Now I could have cheated and just made up those measurements to feel like a big man on campus, but I slacked and used free software again:

http://www.daftlogic.com/projects-google-maps-distance-calculator.htm

Here’s a tool where you just stick pins in things whose distance from each other you covet. Pick miles or feet or whatever makes your day more pleasant and productive. You don’t need years and years of overspecialized training to use these marvels and it completely relieves one of having to depend on another’s word or wait for some magical report from someone who wants to talk in riddles and just make you think. So there’s a cheap, fast and relatively accurate test of distance and expected visual acuity.

[skyjack71 0]

What a revelation! NO way She could have seen anything other than lights and the plane - NO way she saw anyone on the aft stairs. She saw a plane and lights and that is it.

So maybe we can close this Chapter on Who Ever Her Name Was Who Claimed to See What No Human Could See!

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[Robert99 60]

Quote

What a revelation! NO way She could have seen anything other than lights and the plane - NO way she saw anyone on the aft stairs. She saw a plane and lights and that is it.

So maybe we can close this Chapter on Who Ever Her Name Was Who Claimed to See What No Human Could See!

Jo, You have finally "seen the light", literally speaking.

And, vice-versa, the pilots are not going see Janet on the ground what with the almost two mile distance downward, the overcast, several cloud layers below the overcast, the darkness, the light rain in the area, and they probably weren't even looking for her in the first place.

Robert99

[georger 268]

Quote

Quote

What a revelation! NO way She could have seen anything other than lights and the plane - NO way she saw anyone on the aft stairs. She saw a plane and lights and that is it.

So maybe we can close this Chapter on Who Ever Her Name Was Who Claimed to See What No Human Could See!

Jo, You have finally "seen the light", literally speaking.

And, vice-versa, the pilots are not going see Janet on the ground what with the almost two mile distance downward, the overcast, several cloud layers below the overcast, the darkness, the light rain in the area, and they probably weren't even looking for her in the first place.

Robert99

or just go here and calculate it yourself -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angular_resolution

this was all covered before in this thread. Obviously
physics/ bio-physics applies. Nobody denies that
including Janet. Tosaw was fully aware of that when
he received Janet's account at a book signing and
had time to probe her account. Others were also
aware of this fact, at the time in November 1971.

Read the thread.

[BobKnoss 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

What a revelation! NO way She could have seen anything other than lights and the plane - NO way she saw anyone on the aft stairs. She saw a plane and lights and that is it.

So maybe we can close this Chapter on Who Ever Her Name Was Who Claimed to See What No Human Could See!

Jo, You have finally "seen the light", literally speaking.

And, vice-versa, the pilots are not going see Janet on the ground what with the almost two mile distance downward, the overcast, several cloud layers below the overcast, the darkness, the light rain in the area, and they probably weren't even looking for her in the first place.

Robert99

or just go here and calculate it yourself -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angular_resolution

this was all covered before in this thread. Obviously
physics/ bio-physics applies. Nobody denies that
including Janet. Tosaw was fully aware of that when
he received Janet's account at a book signing and
had time to probe her account. Others were also
aware of this fact, at the time in November 1971.

Read the thread.

AND Richard Floyd McCoy Jr. SAID SO!!! And THAT'S the truth, so there! PPPPPPPFFFFFFFFTTTTTTT! I win! You lose. Georger is a genius, he's handsome, and all that stuff. Because he's RIGHT on this point. And the Blevins perspective. Oh YAH!

[BobKnoss 0]

Quote

What a revelation! NO way She could have seen anything other than lights and the plane - NO way she saw anyone on the aft stairs. She saw a plane and lights and that is it.

So maybe we can close this Chapter on Who Ever Her Name Was Who Claimed to See What No Human Could See!

The only relevant point is that she "saw de plane, de plane!" where it shouldn't have aughta been. Perhaps inhanced the story a tad, but let's not throw the baby out with the wash here. Janet was not the only observer. See Cook. Gotcha!

And the flares were not road flares from Weber, they were shot from a flare gun out of the pursuit helicopter that McCoy was in. And THAT'S the truth, too.

[mrshutter45 21]

Bob you already claimed that Cooper jumped and landed on the west side of the Columbia almost the same spot the FBI says, but you claimed further west.

Janet is in Vancouver close to the river and PDX, how did she see your Cooper? according to you and your map he would have been on the ground before the plane flew over Janet!

at one point you said she was in Portland, right?

my screen ripped on my patio, since your story has so many holes I used it as a screen!

I have a guy who wants to contact you about your story, if you don't talk to him he is going to go ahead with or without you, remember you are speaking on a public form!

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[mrshutter45 21]

this one I am finding hard to understand.

"NO-NO- PORTLAND. Not Vancouver"

"He supposedly walked 15 miles, so 10-15 upland would be the probable landing site. First point of triangulation would be a oil line pumphouse by power transmission lines that run east and west. A fix from that point and radio fixes in the mountains to either side points to the clear-cut fire-trail for the pipeline I think he jumped in. That's a wide straight line down to the fork in the river and over to Tena's Bar. "


Now, with that said Bob you do realize that from Hayden Island to Lake Merwin in a straight line is about 24 miles and from the Columbia around Vancouver Lake to the east edge of Lake Merwin due east would be about 20 miles,you have him hiking all over the place for no known reason!
this holds the exact same amount of water your little Milk theory does! zero ounces and zero calories!

I made the same mistake except it helped me and seems to have squashed you!

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[sailshaw 0]

BruceSmith: Great to have you back and know all is well with you. We were thinking that you may have been in the hospital or worse!!!

Things are starting to move to get the FBI to obtain DNA from the four envelopes/stamps of the letters sent after the Norjack to the news papers. Galen Cook has mentioned that he will be talking with the Seattle office of the FBI to get it moving. As we have discussed, that DNA when matched with Sheridan Peterson will be the "Smoking Gun" that blows this case wide open and destroys Sheridan's perfect alibi that he was in Nepal at the time of Norjack. The DNA off the envelopes/stamps is the only remaining evidence that the FBI has yet to investigate. So, we are hoping to get the FBI moving on it.

Welcome back Bruce,

Bob Sailshaw
sailshaw@aol.com

[smokin99 0]

Quote

Quote

This will be a giant yawn to those who prefer to hammer out their realities by saying they have super secret or privileged information or think driving aimlessly in the field is somehow virtuous or of greater value. Nope, all ya need is a computer and internet access and you can follow along, share a few tears and who knows, maybe learn something along the way.

For this exercise I have selected a city absolutely free of any bias or braggadocio which is so favored by many on this thread. No need to live there or own property or any of the other BS which has been smeared across the screens via this thread. Of course I’m talking about Fresno, California. Take a look below:

http://www.airnav.com/airport/KFAT

This website is all about airports which are cool places you don’t even know. But I do because I’m so cool and strong. But Fresno is going to be a yardstick for this demonstration on distance and visual resolution. If you scroll down to runway information for 11L/29R you will see the dimensions listed as 9227 x 150 ft. Wow, that runway is just about as long as 305 was high in the air, that gives me boners. You see, airports are the ultimate level playing field because they are….. umm…. level by design. So looking down the runway of Fresno would be similar to looking down a wicked long yardstick to 305 flying directly overhead. See the numbers?

36.786776,-119.735216

Copy and paste them into Google maps. I said copy and paste. Now grab the street view dude and drop his electronic ass on the pip and orient yourself to look right down Fresno’s runway like you know what the hell you’re doing. Can you see it? I’ve added some graphics to help with orientation, distance and perspective. Can you see anything at the other end of the runway? That’s around 10,000 feet. OK, that’s not fair and makes you sad so let’s focus on something else.

If you scan to the right you may notice a large structure which it the tallest on the horizon. That’s Fresno’s control tower which is about 6,200 feet from the same location. Go ahead and zoom in on that thing and see how many people are in the tower. Can you see them? This is less than two thirds the distance 305 was away from Janet and it is day time. Any luck? OK, I’m still being all mean and un-nice so let’s try some place closer. Here’s some more numbers:

36.772537,-119.726901

Copy and paste that and spin round on baby right round till you see that tower again. Go ahead and zoom too. Can you see people? Imagine seeing any? Could you see them wave or do jumping jacks? This is a measly 1,500 feet away. Could you see a ladder or stairs or a billboard if it was on the tower?

Now I could have cheated and just made up those measurements to feel like a big man on campus, but I slacked and used free software again:

http://www.daftlogic.com/projects-google-maps-distance-calculator.htm

Here’s a tool where you just stick pins in things whose distance from each other you covet. Pick miles or feet or whatever makes your day more pleasant and productive. You don’t need years and years of overspecialized training to use these marvels and it completely relieves one of having to depend on another’s word or wait for some magical report from someone who wants to talk in riddles and just make you think. So there’s a cheap, fast and relatively accurate test of distance and expected visual acuity.

Uncle. You win again. Guess I'm just getting lazy in this southern humidity. Going back to my end of the bar now. Just gonna sit on the stool, drink my mint julep and cry when the band plays a Hank Williams tune. Welcome back.

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[airtwardo 7]

As a long time skydiver that's spent countless hours looking up at aircraft flying similar altitudes in daylight & perfect weather, watching for people exiting...with what might be considered a somewhat 'trained eye' ~ I don't believe her claim in any way, shape or form.

I think it's just ANOTHER case of someone wanting so badly to be a part of a 'big story event'...she included herself in the only way possible for her to do so.

Just way to many holes in that boat to float!



Edited to add: I've got some old ground shot VHS tapes of my demonstration team exiting at 5000' on a clear night...the AC a DC-3, is only visible because of all the lights on it. You can't see the large cargo door or obviously ascertain that's it open.

You can not tell from the ground when 6 skydivers with red jumpsuits and blinking lights attached to them exit. They only become noticeable when magnesium flares attached to them are ignited 3 seconds following aircraft departure.

That's 1/2 the altitude and on a clear night...

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[mrshutter45 21]

Quote

As a long time skydiver that's spent countless hours looking up at aircraft flying similar altitudes in daylight & perfect weather, watching for people exiting...with what might be considered a somewhat 'trained eye' ~ I don't believe her claim in any way, shape or form.

I think it's just ANOTHER case of someone wanting so badly to be a part of a 'big story event'...she included herself in the only way possible for her to do so.

Just way to many holes in that boat to float!

I'm guessing her real name would be Janet Knoss

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[georger 268]

The only relevant point is that she "saw de plane, de plane!" where it shouldn't have aughta been. .

[georger 268]

I think Farflung has done a pretty good job of proving Janet's story is either fantasy, or a frickin' UFO.

[georger 268]

Quote

Quote

Quote

As far as Marla goes, I may or may not have been the first to question her story, but I was the first to get an in-depth interview with her. And I was probably first to seriously question the FBI's explanation on the Amboy Chute. I particularly like the part where they tried to say it belonged (they thought) to a Marine pilot who jumped BEFORE the chute was actually manufactured...

lol...no, actually, you weren't...but I guess the point that you are emphasizing for me is that the fact of "who was first" really matters to you. And probably only to you....So carry on....

I wasn't the first to interview her. I was the first to ask her some tough questions, not the lightweight stuff she was getting from ABC, GMA, etc. And she got really angry about it. She also added a bunch of snarky comments to her answers, which I didn't publish. (I promised her I wouldn't) Later...she came to DZ and posted up the whole interview, snarky comments and all. This was a mystery to me why she would do that because it kind of put her in a bad light.

I think Farflung has done a pretty good job of proving Janet's story is either fantasy, or a frickin' UFO. But sometimes common sense really IS common sense: Nighttime, moderate to heavy cloud cover, light rain, nearly two miles distant...and yet I saw THIS, folks. I simply don't buy it.

On the subject of Geestman, KC, Paradise Point, and the property in Oakville: We know some things for sure. Too many witnesses have stated that both men disappeared suddenly on the Monday or Tuesday before the hijacking, and returned either the following Monday or Tuesday. I was able to narrow it down that much.

It seems very coincidental that these men would pick a time over a major holiday to vanish like that, especially when both were expected to show up for a big Thanksgiving dinner at Helen Jones' place.

Jones actually saw KC about six weeks after the hijacking, down at the Sumner laundromat, and he admitted he was with Geestman, but would not say why.

At the time Paradise Point was suggested as the meeting point, we knew the Geestmans had property in Oakville, but we didn't know there was a shop building on the property, and that it may have had a phone. Margie Geestman says, "Maybe. I can't remember for sure." My fault I did not press her on this point, and I regret not doing so. There was a phone later, when Geestman was building the house there, but she couldn't remember WHEN it was installed.

Margie Geestman: Trying to get a straight answer out of her was like pulling teeth, I swear. She kept saying her husband was involved in the hijacking, but that it wasn't Kenny who helped him. Oh...she liked tossing out names. Dick Blume, others. None of them remotely matched the description. Final Interview: I showed up to her place about a week after I mailed her a copy of Blast. She says: Kenny could have been involved. This interview was taped and sound-recorded. I never could get past her fear of the FBI, no matter what I tried...telling her the Statute of Limitations was up for any accomplices, etc. Didn't matter. She had a real fear of losing her ranch if it came out that it was possibly purchased with some of the proceeds of the crime. You could call her a reluctant witness, and she was not the best witness.

That would go to Helen Jones and her daughter. I put them through a two-day interview, twelve hours each time. The reason I believe she is the best witness is twofold: 1) At the beginning she was highly pissed off at me for even hinting that KC could have been Cooper. I mean MAD AS HELL. So she had no axe to grind, and you would expect she would pooh-pooh the available evidence and offer up reasons why KC couldn't have been Cooper. 2) Instead, she was the only witness who definitely places Geestman and KC together over the week of the hijacking. She also confirms (to a degree) that KC went from dirt-poor to suddenly-doing-quite-well after the crime. She was able to do this because KC and the Geestmans DID attend Thanksgiving the following year in 72, and said he was doing much better financially. The house, etc.

Jones said that this was the last time they all got together for a holiday. On Christmas Eve 72, there was a fire at her house. Geestman dragged over the Airstream trailer to her place and allowed them to borrow it as a temp home until repairs were complete on the house. Then, she says, he sold it. Margie Geestman has testified that the only time the trailer was ever used was the week of the hijacking. It went like this:

Geestman purchases trailer through a bank repo sale about six weeks prior to hijacking. He picks up a station wagon at the same time from a car lot in Elma, WA.

Instead of bringing it home to Bonney Lake, he parks it in Oakville on the empty property. (At first, I did not know that there was a shop built there)

He takes off in it for a week at the time of the hijacking. Tells wifey: 'Going camping.' Doesn't say where, or who he was with when he returns. At Thanksgiving dinner at the Jones place, wifey is very angry and says so to Jones. KC is mentioned, but KC had hinted to the wifey weeks prior that he might fly back to Minnesota to see family, instead of attending dinner. (Discovered later he did not)

Six weeks post-hijacking: Jones sees KC at the Sumner Laundromat. 'We missed you at Thanksgiving. Did you go back to Minnesota?' Answer: He was with Geestman. Won't say where or what they were doing.

Eighteen weeks post-hijacking: Geestman delivers $5,000 to his sister Dawn from KC. She buys a house, moves out of the Geestmans place with her four kids. Later, he claims he didn't know the arrangements on the loan. In 2010, Dawn says in an interview she and some of her friends believed KC could be the hijacker, but that they didn't say anything to him directly about it. Later, after her brother is approached by History Channel, he calls her up on the phone: 'You have to take back those things you said...' Answer: No. Today: Dawn and her immediate family stick by her story. Now the whole family (except brother in Port Angeles, of course) is trying to figure out the truth and called me on the phone two weeks ago to discuss it. LOL maybe they'll sort it out.

Quote

'There was so much bull#$&t in Vietnam (see:Cooper case) you needed wings to stay above it...'

Apocalypse Now

Thirty-two weeks post-hijacking: KC buys house for about $16,000 in cash. Geestman claims he didn't know the arrangements, even though KC bought the house from a couple where Geestman served as the Best Man at their wedding.

Forty-four weeks post-hijacking: KC buys adjoining lot from same couple, and an empty lot behind what is now the Bonney Lake Safeway. A couple of years later, he sells off the trees from the Safeway lot and makes a bundle. As this is going on, he keeps his old PO box back down in Sumner and continues making orders for gold coins and stamps. When he dies in 94, the value is around $400,000. In cash, he has about $200,000 at West One Bank. Not bad for a guy who never filed more than $36K a year for taxes, and usually less than 7K pre-hijacking.

Whether or not these two men pulled off the hijacking I cannot say, but one thing is certain: Geestman has told one lie after another about virtually everything that could tie him to anything regarding it. Then he tried that tactic to History Channel and they broke through that pretty quick. And there is still the biggest unanswered question of all:

Why would Bernie Geestman say on national television that he thinks KC could be the hijacker...when he was WITH KC at the time of the hijacking? This does not make sense. It didn't then, it doesn't NOW.

Associate producer Pete Berg gave me a pretty good picture on what went down during Geestman's TV interview. Sort of paraphrased, but accurate:

Quote

"About six of the crew were set up for filming, with the cast of the show on one side, Geestman on the other. The director would discuss the points they wanted to make and then the cameras rolled. Questions were asked. Geestman would just sit there and say absolutely nothing. Cut...let's try that again. Another question...nothing. He just sat there like a stone and everyone in the room thought this was very weird, especially since he had volunteered to drive down from Port Angeles to appear on the show.

This went on for about two hours, and in the end we only got five minutes or so of film we could actually use...'

There was one big screw-up during this entire process. I was busy interviewing Jones at the same time they were filming Geestman. And since Jones and her daughter both said Geestman was with KC over the week of the hijacking, it's too bad I didn't get that info up to the Decoded people, so they could confront Geestman with it. I've always regretted that. The biggest coincidence of all was Jones mentioning KC changed out the countertops after he bought the Bonney Lake house...and then Decoded discovering the hiding spot in the attic made out of...you guessed it...counter material.

So...Geestman goes back to Port Angeles, and the next day I show up in Bonney Lake to film the final segment, around 11AM. Helen Jones had driven up about an hour earlier and paid a visit to the set, they said. She tells them some of the things she said to me, along with telling them KC smoked Raleighs, not Camels as she had initially said in her interview.

Will you go on camera? They asked. No. Why? She was afraid of Geestman, she says.

You know what? I don't know if KC and Geestman pulled off the crime, but I do know there is a lot of BS here with him. One lie after another. If I were to guess on it, I would say this: Those two are guilty as sin, and the wife didn't find out until after-the-fact, and kept the secret. But that's strictly a guess. Let the FBI wade through Geestman's baloney and figure it out...

Postscript: At the end of the Decoded episode, they did a shot of the cast walking away from the motel room where they had just interviewed Geestman. All three announce at the end that they think KC was the guy...but that Geestman was not involved. LATER: Pete Berg tells me in an email that this part was staged via a request from Go Go Luckey's legal department. Since they were unable to get Geestman to 'fess up,' it was decided that no one could say they thought Geestman was involved in a major crime. Truth was, Berg said, two of the cast members (and the entire film crew) thought Geestman was lying and hiding facts from them. The only one who didn't was Christine McKinley. Berg asked me to not reveal this until he was no longer working for Go-Go Luckey. He isn't there anymore. Later, Geestman mailed producer Marisa Kagan a teddy bear and some other gifts to her office in LA. She thought this was strange indeed, since they had never met...and she was the person he tried lying to on the phone, as well as the person who caught him trying to get his sister Dawn to change her story.

Amazing how your mind works.

Here's a capsulised summary of yours above:

"Jack & Jill went up the hill, to fetch a pale of water.
Jack & Jill came down the hill, with 426 ancestors,
13 step children, 103 great grandchildren, 32
grandchildren, 8 sons and 3 daughters.

Who was the first son's son? Why Kenny of
course, with Geestman's help!"

And if you keep expending your story just one of
your posts will take up two full pages ?

[georger 268]

Quote

As a long time skydiver that's spent countless hours looking up at aircraft flying similar altitudes in daylight & perfect weather, watching for people exiting...with what might be considered a somewhat 'trained eye' ~ I don't believe her claim in any way, shape or form.

I think it's just ANOTHER case of someone wanting so badly to be a part of a 'big story event'...she included herself in the only way possible for her to do so.

Just way to many holes in that boat to float!



Edited to add: I've got some old ground shot VHS tapes of my demonstration team exiting at 5000' on a clear night...the AC a DC-3, is only visible because of all the lights on it. You can't see the large cargo door or obviously ascertain that's it open.

You can not tell from the ground when 6 skydivers with red jumpsuits and blinking lights attached to them exit. They only become noticeable when magnesium flares attached to them are ignited 3 seconds following aircraft departure.

That's 1/2 the altitude and on a clear night...

I can see Venus from my back porch on a clear day.
Can;t you?

[airtwardo 7]

Quote

Quote

As a long time skydiver that's spent countless hours looking up at aircraft flying similar altitudes in daylight & perfect weather, watching for people exiting...with what might be considered a somewhat 'trained eye' ~ I don't believe her claim in any way, shape or form.

I think it's just ANOTHER case of someone wanting so badly to be a part of a 'big story event'...she included herself in the only way possible for her to do so.

Just way to many holes in that boat to float!



Edited to add: I've got some old ground shot VHS tapes of my demonstration team exiting at 5000' on a clear night...the AC a DC-3, is only visible because of all the lights on it. You can't see the large cargo door or obviously ascertain that's it open.

You can not tell from the ground when 6 skydivers with red jumpsuits and blinking lights attached to them exit. They only become noticeable when magnesium flares attached to them are ignited 3 seconds following aircraft departure.

That's 1/2 the altitude and on a clear night...

I can see Venus from my back porch on a clear day.
Can;t you?

I dunno...never been on your back-porch.



OTOH~
i HAVE seen large numbers of skydivers exiting a 727 on a clear day, they were MUCH harder to see than the Sun...which from reliable reports is considerably farther away.

I'm no Rocket-Surgeon, but I'm willing to bet big bucks that there is a scientific explanation FOR that phenomenon.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[georger 268]

One point that hasn't been mentioned regarding Janet is the context on WHEN she gave the information:

She approached Tosaw during a book signing, which means she was obviously a Cooper fan. She may have just said these things to impress him. I could actually buy the idea that she saw SOMETHING, but the fly in the ointment was her addition of the Men In Black story. That seemed like a bit of a stretch.

[georger 268]

Quote

Quote

Quote

As a long time skydiver that's spent countless hours looking up at aircraft flying similar altitudes in daylight & perfect weather, watching for people exiting...with what might be considered a somewhat 'trained eye' ~ I don't believe her claim in any way, shape or form.

I think it's just ANOTHER case of someone wanting so badly to be a part of a 'big story event'...she included herself in the only way possible for her to do so.

Just way to many holes in that boat to float!



Edited to add: I've got some old ground shot VHS tapes of my demonstration team exiting at 5000' on a clear night...the AC a DC-3, is only visible because of all the lights on it. You can't see the large cargo door or obviously ascertain that's it open.

You can not tell from the ground when 6 skydivers with red jumpsuits and blinking lights attached to them exit. They only become noticeable when magnesium flares attached to them are ignited 3 seconds following aircraft departure.

That's 1/2 the altitude and on a clear night...

I can see Venus from my back porch on a clear day.
Can;t you?

I dunno...never been on your back-porch.

and you never will be.

[georger 268]

Quote

Quote

Quote

As a long time skydiver that's spent countless hours looking up at aircraft flying similar altitudes in daylight & perfect weather, watching for people exiting...with what might be considered a somewhat 'trained eye' ~ I don't believe her claim in any way, shape or form.

I think it's just ANOTHER case of someone wanting so badly to be a part of a 'big story event'...she included herself in the only way possible for her to do so.

Just way to many holes in that boat to float!



Edited to add: I've got some old ground shot VHS tapes of my demonstration team exiting at 5000' on a clear night...the AC a DC-3, is only visible because of all the lights on it. You can't see the large cargo door or obviously ascertain that's it open.

You can not tell from the ground when 6 skydivers with red jumpsuits and blinking lights attached to them exit. They only become noticeable when magnesium flares attached to them are ignited 3 seconds following aircraft departure.

That's 1/2 the altitude and on a clear night...

I can see Venus from my back porch on a clear day.
Can;t you?

Sure I can. But I can't see anybody standing on it throwing flares...

Something tells me you are lying. Where would you
look for Venus in the sky, say around Noon on any
day? Tell us? Be specific. Time, day, month. You
may use the 2000 Ephemeris if you want. Your
coordinates are: +47 37 - 122 20