DB Cooper

[matthewcline 0]

No more guesses, hints, and baits, come straight out with it.

Duane's failure to perform, in two services, do not add up as some one capable of pulling this off.

SO what if he was in a unit for training, and never finished with, that was called a CW unit.

I was a member of the 75th RGR RGMT (ABN) when I started my career, I am not Ranger qualified (broken ankle). But my record still shows the 75th as a unit I was assigned too.

So, stop hinting, and come straight out with it.

I don't think it adds up. I think it is just many criminal items coming to light after death, and being strung together for "closer".

Sorry, it is harsh, but that is what i feel it is. You got duped by a petty criminal and identity thief, and now are trying to figure out the whys of it.

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[Robert99 60]

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As well as trying to force connections to things that are not connected or even related.

Matt

NOT forcing things not connected.

Information dated 3/25/2000

McNeil - Stilicoon Prison:
The black smokejumpers trained near Portland Or and did not go to Pendleton until later.

Stilicoon used prisoner for road work and forestry work. May of 1945 right after Duane was placed on parole - the inlisted them to help the firefighters - which were at that time Not called the Triple Nickles on a classified misss. The battalion left Camp HACKELL for Oregon. Sept. 1944 protland Or dateline headed "Firefighter use Parachutes" The story reported that "Crew have been dropped by parachute to fight man areas of the Northwest". A blistering summer sun indirectly caused fire in six areas in the last 48 hours. An eight man unit crew was dropped to fight a blaze in the Lost Hors Country of Idaho.
Other Parchutist were in the back woods of Chelan National Forest a 300 acre fire. A strand object on the ground form the air proved to be a Japanese bomb that had traveled across the Pacific on Hydrogen-filled ballons.
It woud remain a TIGHTLY guarded secret for a time.

Nov 44 fear of these balloon contained chemical-biological warfare devices. (Remember Duane was on CW RGNT in the army training). The 555 Parachute infantry battalion had acquired the neck name "Smoke Jumpers". The WA. OR project became knnown as "Operation Firefly", and these team rushed to forest fires and areas where there were suspected Japanese Bombs. FIREFIGHING was entriely a new experince for them.

Most of these jumpers had been trained at Ft Benning and were BLACK.

This was in a book about Stilicoon Prison (McNeil) The Pensacola Library acquired for me on loan. I could not remove it from the library.

What is the chance that with what Duane told me about Ft. Benning that he did NOT know some of these guys and with his Uncle being connected to CW and his short connection to CW that he did not become part of a ground crew...provided by the prison to assist them.

Since the Bonneville facility house some prisoners who worked the forestry - remember Duane was very familiar with the facility and spoke as though he had stayed there - (the people in Washougal told me there was always something going on there and the locals never knew what it was). I spoke to several individuals in the area and all told me the same thing.

Jo, You need to get your facts straight. I hardly know where to begin so I'll just jump in and start with the military smoke jumpers.

In the article you quote above, nothing is said about either military or black smoke jumpers.

According to the article that Matt provided a link to earlier, the 555th didn't arrive in Oregon until May 1945. They were based at Pendleton, Oregon with a detachment at Chico, California. This article is also the source of the error about where the Doolittle Raiders trained (which was the Penascola, Florida area).

There was no media censorship on information about the balloon bombs until after Newsweek magazine published an article on the subject in their January 1, 1945 issue. This is in the link that Mrshutter provided earlier about the balloon bombs.

What is the source of your claim that the Japanese used chemical and biological weapons on those balloons? Please list chapter and verse.

EVERBODY where I lived in Washington State at that time knew about the balloons. The information was publicly distributed. But no one said anything about chemical and biological weapons.

You need to start checking your facts and not getting things intermingled.

As far as Duane knowing black paratroopers at Fort Benning, there is no evidence that Duane was ever at Fort Benning in the first place.

There were probably 20 to 40 thousand people at Fort Benning on any given day in that time frame and the average soldier's world probably didn't extend past the next barracks building from his own.

Have you heard of Jim Crow who was alive and well at that time? It is very unlikely that blacks and whites socialized at Fort Benning or any other place in that area at that time.

Robert99

[skyjack71 0]

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You're not answering the direct question.

Are you saying Duane faked his race, like he faked an identity, and served with the 555th?
Received training in any way from them?

Be CLEAR, no hints, teases, or baits, clear provable truth, only.

Your part regarding GEN Westmoreland makes no sense to me.

Matt

The General Westmoreland was there only because his name was mentioned in the artlcle and I was hoping someone might explain to me who this is and why he was mentioned in the Article.

I am not saying Duane FAKED an ID, but exploring the things he told me and my finding out they were true and the sequence of events per history was very possible. The rest of this answer is lenghty and within the story below.


FBI is very silent regarding the McNeil, but the file says he was there less than 6 month with probation in the summer of 1945 and then the family's claim he was in the Placerville area.

The brother worded it "with some people who thought they could help him find direction and to bring him closer to home". (The sister maintained he was never in the prison because of intervention by family friends or family in WA).

Duane's own words and what he told me in Tahoe indicate he did live in the mountains between Carson City and Placerville...I forget the name of the little town, but it is in writing some where in all of these file.

The FBI has refused to use photo ID to verify the guy in a couple of photos taken there was indeed Weber, but someone I found on my own ground says - yes, they are one and the same.
Comparing Navy photos which were the closest I had to the 1945 pics. The fact that he brought that book into our home and talked about this - and showed me these same photos, I know he was there.

I do know he went BACK to WA & OR - the things he told me and the 2 eye witnesses who placed him in The Dalles - was all I needed. They even told me where he washed dishes and the same place Duane talked about when he took me to dinner the night we stayed just out side of The Dallas. These guys at the senior center had NO idea who I was - I showed them only pictures of Duane. One brother told me this and then called his brother over and asked him where he remember the guy from - he said the same thing.

The Dalles was also where Duane talked about the FIRE DEPT and sweeping out a store in town.

He talked about a bar "the Guys" used to go to in Goldendale. He spoke of rock climbing in the area. He mentioned "they use to fly in and out to the airport just as he mention these same guys regarding the Redmond, OR airport.

Who were the Guys. Well, I know 3 of them went to Mt. Hood just as Duane told me and a story I told yrs before Snowmman introduced the pic in the thread I had already located on the computer a few yrs before and that Duane showed me in 1984 approx.

Duane told me about Karl the one whose guitar was always with him and his boots. He mentioned one of the guys was a rodeo guy. I do not remember if it was bull riding but something makes me think that.

Duane talked about the Dollar Corner Tavern and his knowing the man who owned it...and then something about a feed store or hardware across the street. When I was out there in 2001 that store and bar was still there, but changed hands. The feed store or hardware was a Used Furniture store - something like that. There were so many people with us it was hard to pay attention like you do one on one.

McNeil provided road workers and forestry aid and Duane worked in the same, I guess on a probabtion type thing and his buddies went to OR - he went also. Somewhere in the 4 missing yrs he goes to Chicago area and ends up in trouble but they loose him - he walks away from an honor farm. NO ONE person could know the N.W. the way he did if he was behind bars the entire time he was there and the family told he was there.

Nickles (your specific question):
Evidently he was in an area The Nickles were in as he started talking about things before we got to the WA line. He basically told me their history and also a couple of names, but I didn't remember those. He knew some of them personally. I have never read anything about their not being allowed in the restaurants and using wht boys to fetch their meals....and it was better than picking apples. (don't know why I remember the part about apples). Duane knew every airport in WA and OR and ID and he talked about the Indian Reservations in all of them. Indians and Blacks - with his complexion it was easy for him to hide among them.

He personally stated he could never go to a reservation and area below Cour de lane because of something that happened with himself and another BOY. So his using the word BOY I assumed he was still a very young man. I could never get the FBI to check the county records in those counties...and when I was out there I ran out of money and time before I got that far. So much to do and so little time.

He talked about moving equipment from place to place and specifically Indian reservations and airports.

He talked about a camp high up in the mountains above Seattle and to the East near ID.

More about the BLACK connection Duane had:

Now that picture I was going to post of a man who is a Black man and he lived in N.O. and played a trumpet - a man Duane used to know and he made a point to go see in 1980/1981 (I have pics so I would be able to give the yrs.

He made sure he deposited me else where and the guy was not there, but we went back the next day before we left and again the guy was not there, but he left a package for him. This man was alive at 100 a yr ago. What was Duanes specific connection to Blacks? Especially this man and the other one who was a shoe shine guy?

Remember my telling about the incident in VA when a woman wanted to know who the "N" was that took care of his pets and pool while they were on vacation. What the service guys and Duane did to that woman was actually hilarious. They invited both of them to a party the next day - and asked Duane and I not to come late. When we got there they introduce the "N" (Duane) to the neighbor and the room roared. Obviously that neighbor was a racist living in a military community and her words just did not set well with any of them....Duane was in on the plan. These guys were all much younger than we were so we were just good neighbors but they all like a good joke.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

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In the article you quote above, nothing is said about either military or black smoke jumpers.

Duh! I only gave you highlights and the site you found is not the culmination of sites and books I have collected. You claimed one place I went was were you went - NO they are not. That old site with the details is NO long out there.

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According to the article that Matt provided a link to earlier, the 555th didn't arrive in Oregon until May 1945. They were based at Pendleton, Oregon with a detachment at Chico, California. This article is also the source of the error about where the Doolittle Raiders trained (which was the Penascola, Florida area).

Well, the other article is different and I quoted it. The new writers come along - just like quoting the facts about the Cooper case, and before you know it part of history is lost...as the new generation is not concerned about the details. I am not going to dig the article up again and try to type that much...provide me with a mailing address and I will have a copy made and sent to you. I am unable to scan articles.

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There was no media censorship on information about the balloon bombs until after Newsweek magazine published an article on the subject in their January 1, 1945 issue. This is in the link that Mrshutter provided earlier about the balloon bombs.

BULL it is well known they kept it secret for sometime and they didn't leaked it to the public in the beginning. It would have caused a panic. All of this is in that same damn article and in a very old book if your library can even find a copy of it. Like the Cooper case - detail get changed everytime some one want to do a book or a web page.

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What is the source of your claim that the Japanese used chemical and biological weapons on those balloons? Please list chapter and verse

.

I have closed the book and my eyes are tired - as I said - send me an address and I will copy it and mail it to you. It was a great fear, but they turned out only to be something else....supposedly.

As for your racist remarks - take them and shove them where they will do you the most good.

This is something Duane and I had in common. I was born in 1940 and our schools were not segrated, but I was taught they were human just with a different color skin like other people all over the world. Duane never had one word bad to say about a persons color - he was color blind in that way...I never heard him use the "N" word - not ever.

The articles I have quoted are real and they did exist - perhaps they are no longer on the WEB as they used to be but they did and do exist and I made hard copies.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

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No more guesses, hints, and baits, come straight out with it.

Duane's failure to perform, in two services, do not add up as some one capable of pulling this off.

SO what if he was in a unit for training, and never finished with, that was called a CW unit.

I was a member of the 75th RGR RGMT (ABN) when I started my career, I am not Ranger qualified (broken ankle). But my record still shows the 75th as a unit I was assigned too.

So, stop hinting, and come straight out with it.

I don't think it adds up. I think it is just many criminal items coming to light after death, and being strung together for "closer".

Sorry, it is harsh, but that is what i feel it is. You got duped by a petty criminal and identity thief, and now are trying to figure out the whys of it.

Matt

Now you are sounding like the FBI and until you see the STUFF it doesn't make sense and it takes days to go thru all of the stuff.

As for the Army stint it is NOT just the designation it is the letter John gave to me that Duane wrote his mother. The FBI didn't even bother to read the letter. Duane talks about the chemical end of this being ok.
His Uncle helped develope the damn stuff in WWI - he was a chemist...this has been proven by a forensic genealogists...who was trying to HOAX me (without my knowledge) and gave up after 2 yrs and decided to HELP me. When I was contacted it scared the crap out of me - I thought this person was a fraud or someone trying to steal my ID.
This person was for real and connected to a very very large university.

The papers even give the DATE the government requested the Uncle's services again and he did CS work for them in the chemical end of it when the BOMBS came into the N.W. That brief service ended when the Bomb thing ended. Duane's time in WA was during this same time frame. Duane told me about it and it turned out to be just like he said...he was there.

There is one thing about it I am not a BOB KNOSS. I am just not able to scan documents and I have approx 17 ft of paper trails along with the next 7 yrs having been kept on disks. I have to keep a storage unit for some of it....since I am getting ready to downsize and had to cut the clutter to get my home on the market.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

I wonder if the Libary can still get the book after 12 yrs.

Information dated 3/25/2000 as a summary of the book:

McNeil - Stilicoon Prison:
The black smokejumpers trained near Portland Or and did not go to Pendleton until later.

Stilicoon used prisoner for road work and forestry work. May of 1945 right after Duane was placed on parole - they inlisted them to help the firefighters - which were at that time Not called the Triple Nickles on a classified mission. The battalion left Camp HACKELL for Oregon.
------------------------------
Sept. 1944
Portland Or dateline headed "Firefighter use Parachutes" The story reported that "Crew have been dropped by parachute to fight many areas of the Northwest". A blistering summer sun indirectly caused fire in six areas in the last 48 hours. An eight man unit crew was dropped to fight a blaze in the Lost Hors Country of Idaho.

Other Parchutist were in the back woods of Chelan National Forest a 300 acre fire. A strange object on the ground from the air proved to be a Japanese bomb that had traveled across the Pacific on Hydrogen-filled ballons.
It would remain a TIGHTLY guarded secret for a time.

Nov 44 fear of these balloon contained chemical-biological warfare devices. (Remember Duane was on CW RGNT in the army training). The 555 Parachute infantry battalion had acquired the nick name "Smoke Jumpers". The WA. OR project became known as "Operation Firefly", and these teams rushed to forest fires and areas where there were suspected Japanese Bombs. FIREFIGHING was entirely a new experince for them.

Most of these jumpers had been trained at Ft Benning and were BLACK.

This was in a book about Stilicoon Prison (McNeil) The Pensacola Library acquired for me on loan. I could not remove it from the library.

What is the chance that with what Duane told me about Ft. Benning that he did NOT know some of these guys and with his Uncle being connected to CW and his short connection to CW that he did not become part of a ground crew...provided by the prison to assist them.

Since the Bonneville facility house some prisoners who worked the forestry - remember Duane was very familiar with the facility and spoke as though he had stayed there - (the people in Washougal told me there was always something going on there and the locals never knew what it was). I spoke to several individuals in the area and all told me the same thing.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[Robert99 60]

R99 writes:

There was no media censorship on information about the balloon bombs until after Newsweek magazine published an article on the subject in their January 1, 1945 issue. This is in the link that Mrshutter provided earlier about the balloon bombs.

Jo replies:

BULL it is well known they kept it secret for sometime and they didn't leaked it to the public in the beginning. It would have caused a panic. All of this is in that same damn article and in a very old book if your library can even find a copy of it. Like the Cooper case - detail get changed everytime some one want to do a book or a web page.

Jo, Quote your sources if you have any.

Let me repeat, there was NO panic among those of us who acually saw the balloon bombs pass overhead.

Ten year old kids are not afraid of anything!

And again, there was not any media censorship by the US Government about these balloon bombs until after the Newsweek article in their 01-01-1945 issue.

In addition to almost everything else you have been writing these past few days, I doubt that Duane had anything to do with the Bonneville Dam.

Grand Coulee Dam was conducting routine visitor tours during this same period. I was in one of those tour groups and only saw a few policemen, all civilians, each armed with a single 38 pistol (a six shooter). The only security that I could see was that the group was counted as it passed from one area of the dam to another.

If you want your claims to be believed, you should start posting sources that can actually be located. You and Knoss are in the same boat in that respect.

Robert99

[BobKnoss 0]

"You made this post just hours ago. Since we all know you can scan and attach items to your posts, I challenge you to prove this statement of 50 pages to be true.

Scan them, so they are legible, and post them in the next six hours, or accept that we will add this "50 pages" statement to the rest of the fact-less fable.

It does not serve your "cause" to call Jo a liar. It speaks to the Kettle/pot thing.

So by 1630 CDT, post the scans.

Tick tick tick tick... "
___________________________________________

Matt Cline: You have proven yourself totally untrustworthy of handling sensitive information. Retarded is a polite term that I used in the past, but there is no good term to describe your opinionated attacks on the truth from Jo and me. Your complete lack of knowledge and assumption of planted evidence and false testimony is exemplatory of counter-intelligence at work. You definitely can not be trusted with my documents. They are bona facia evidence that support everything I have said. You would absolutely attempt to use them as "more character assassination evidence" against me. You are as predictable as your, "tick-tick-tick." I'd really like to carry on a discussion with a Mensa group instead of a Minstrel group. (Picture a bandwagon pulled by an official chicken-shit FBI cover-up crew. Picture Jo being towed behind in a Red Flier wagon, waving and throwing suckers to all the onlookers.) It would appear the Canadian Mounted Police made a prior entry in force, based on the residual evidence, or was it the Cooper bandwagon that generated that stenchful litter? Pretty obvious to everyone what the answer to that one is. Used oats cast no votes. Truth talks, horse shit walks.

[matthewcline 0]

  Quote

"You made this post just hours ago. Since we all know you can scan and attach items to your posts, I challenge you to prove this statement of 50 pages to be true.

Scan them, so they are legible, and post them in the next six hours, or accept that we will add this "50 pages" statement to the rest of the fact-less fable.

It does not serve your "cause" to call Jo a liar. It speaks to the Kettle/pot thing.

So by 1630 CDT, post the scans.

Tick tick tick tick... "
___________________________________________

Matt Cline: You have proven yourself totally untrustworthy of handling sensitive information. Retarded is a polite term that I used in the past, but there is no good term to describe your opinionated attacks on the truth from Jo and me. Your complete lack of knowledge and assumption of planted evidence and false testimony is exemplatory of counter-intelligence at work. You definitely can not be trusted with my documents. They are bona facia evidence that support everything I have said. You would absolutely attempt to use them as "more character assassination evidence" against me. You are as predictable as your, "tick-tick-tick." I'd really like to carry on a discussion with a Mensa group instead of a Minstrel group. (Picture a bandwagon pulled by an official chicken-shit FBI cover-up crew. Picture Jo being towed behind in a Red Flier wagon, waving and throwing suckers to all the onlookers.) It would appear the Canadian Mounted Police made a prior entry in force, based on the residual evidence, or was it the Cooper bandwagon that generated that stenchful litter? Pretty obvious to everyone what the answer to that one is. Used oats cast no votes. Truth talks, horse shit walks.

Then you should walk.

You can't answer the direct question, because you lied. There are no notes. It was a lie, you got caught, again, simple.

I have held a security clearance far higher than you, since you never held one, any would be higher I suppose. That process alone, is why I know your story to be farce and so laughable.

And even if there was 50 pages of hand written notes, they would amount to nothing. Modern science would prove they didn't happen to be written at the right time, and would not have been from the none existent project. That is called a forgery in the art world.

That whole response above was just more of your fantasy, and is drivel. Plus you had to resort to name calling, very grade school play ground. Remember resorting to name calling and insults is a indicator of a lack of character, intelligence, and facts, to bring to the discussion.

Chief is laughing so hard, breathing is difficult.

At least Jo is proving, with evidence, where her ideas and notions come from, and as she does disproving your "case", BTW.

Jo's case at least makes a bit of sense, but I think Duane may have known, or thought he knew, the Suspect, not actually have been the suspect, the drawing of the suspect and Duane are just too far off. Plus, just being around those trained in some activity doesn't mean you able to do that activity. And of course it could all be coincidence, and mean nothing at all.

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[airtwardo 7]

Your complete lack of knowledge and assumption of planted evidence and false testimony is exemplary of counter-intelligence at work. You definitely can not be trusted with my documents. They are bona facia evidence that support everything I have said. You would absolutely attempt to use them as "more character assassination evidence" against me. You are as predictable as your, "tick-tick-tick." I'd really like to carry on a discussion with a Mensa group instead of a Minstrel group.

  Quote

Bob anyone can tell a 'story' and weave a fact in here & there...that doesn't make a case, it's simply a story.

IF you have said factual verifiable evidence regarding the claims you make, then present that evidence for the scrutiny of the people you are trying to convince.

If there are as you say no gaping holes in that evidence then you need not be worried regarding any character assassination.

If there ARE huge holes and you know it, then by all means continue on with your laughable charade if it makes you somehow feel better about the world and your place in it.

If doing this kind of thing keeps ya out of bars and away from school zones it's a small price for us to pay. It's your tale to tell, tell it any way you care to.

But I gotta tell ya, you change the story it seems to retro fit and conform to any bits of proven inaccuracies you've been confronted on... which has taken any creditability you may have had at one time, completely away.

Trust me, you wouldn't want to converse with any MENSA group that I'm aware of, those folks tend to ask for verifiable sources from those making outlandish claims & statements considerably more vehemently than random 'Cooperites' in an obscure thread on a free website!

Them there brainiacs tell ya pretty quick if ya got too much gravel and not enough cement...their membership policy is a hair more strict than that of Dropzone.com!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[mrshutter45 21]

there are plenty of online MENSA groups, I would be happy to suppy you with the tools needed to get on board and start your discussion with them, do you want the group closest to your area?

Your move, you have been called out once again!

with someone monitoring of course, ya know, that validation thing you always swear by!

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[BobKnoss 0]

  Quote

there are plenty of online MENSA groups, I would be happy to suppy you with the tools needed to get on board and start your discussion with them, do you want the group closest to your area?

Your move, you have been called out once again!

with someone monitoring of course, ya know, that validation thing you always swear by!

_______________________________________
I want no more of YOUR assistance. Thank you. You are another subversive submariner.

[BobKnoss 0]

  Quote

  Quote

"You made this post just hours ago. Since we all know you can scan and attach items to your posts, I challenge you to prove this statement of 50 pages to be true.

Scan them, so they are legible, and post them in the next six hours, or accept that we will add this "50 pages" statement to the rest of the fact-less fable.

It does not serve your "cause" to call Jo a liar. It speaks to the Kettle/pot thing.

So by 1630 CDT, post the scans.

Tick tick tick tick... "
___________________________________________

Matt Cline: You have proven yourself totally untrustworthy of handling sensitive information. Retarded is a polite term that I used in the past, but there is no good term to describe your opinionated attacks on the truth from Jo and me. Your complete lack of knowledge and assumption of planted evidence and false testimony is exemplatory of counter-intelligence at work. You definitely can not be trusted with my documents. They are bona facia evidence that support everything I have said. You would absolutely attempt to use them as "more character assassination evidence" against me. You are as predictable as your, "tick-tick-tick." I'd really like to carry on a discussion with a Mensa group instead of a Minstrel group. (Picture a bandwagon pulled by an official chicken-shit FBI cover-up crew. Picture Jo being towed behind in a Red Flier wagon, waving and throwing suckers to all the onlookers.) It would appear the Canadian Mounted Police made a prior entry in force, based on the residual evidence, or was it the Cooper bandwagon that generated that stenchful litter? Pretty obvious to everyone what the answer to that one is. Used oats cast no votes. Truth talks, horse shit walks.

Then you should walk.

You can't answer the direct question, because you lied. There are no notes. It was a lie, you got caught, again, simple.

I have held a security clearance far higher than you, since you never held one, any would be higher I suppose. That process alone, is why I know your story to be farce and so laughable.

And even if there was 50 pages of hand written notes, they would amount to nothing. Modern science would prove they didn't happen to be written at the right time, and would not have been from the none existent project. That is called a forgery in the art world.

That whole response above was just more of your fantasy, and is drivel. Plus you had to resort to name calling, very grade school play ground. Remember resorting to name calling and insults is a indicator of a lack of character, intelligence, and facts, to bring to the discussion.

Chief is laughing so hard, breathing is difficult.

At least Jo is proving, with evidence, where her ideas and notions come from, and as she does disproving your "case", BTW.

Jo's case at least makes a bit of sense, but I think Duane may have known, or thought he knew, the Suspect, not actually have been the suspect, the drawing of the suspect and Duane are just too far off. Plus, just being around those trained in some activity doesn't mean you able to do that activity. And of course it could all be coincidence, and mean nothing at all.

Matt

Silly, Matt. You ALWAYS make unsupported statements for the sole purpose of flaming. You ALWAYS approach every position from the false side and insist on the truth being wrong. Even a total blithering idiot would get something right, just by law of averages! Go back to your pablum, kid. You have much learning to do. I do not like you, do not want to talk to you, and am bored to death by your one track badgering. You obviously have NO interest in the truth at all. ABSOLUTELY NONE!

[mrshutter45 21]

" I'd really like to carry on a discussion with a Mensa group" says Bob Knoss, but once again when confronted he resorts to name calling like a child

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[skyjack71 0]

Duane took me to the Bonneville Dam, but I am referring to a camp north of Washoughal - a place even the locals never knew much about....that camp had LOTS of secrets and some of those will NEVER be known - hopefully after all these yrs the government will disclose the truths that took place behind those fences.

If my memory serves me right that was Called Bonneville Camp, but I am too tired tonight to look it up. It was use by the state and other facilities on occassion to house workers for the forestry and the state during fires. It was easier than transporting prisoners all the way back to Tacoma or other insitutions. The locals told me no one will ever know all the truths about the facility. The stories have come down thru the yrs - but NO government files released.

The darn article I referred to did exist and hopefully I have hard copies of them. Right now I am working with old emails with a scattering of articles. Some of the main articles were moved to a different place. I couldn't keep everything - several feet of "STUFF". This STUFF has been shuffled through for yrs and some of it is no longer in order.

I posted an angry post a moment ago and deleted it.
I am just going to go on the way I am - just taking the files by the dates of the emails. There are other files that are copies of sites and some copies of pages of books. Those will come in time....the dates on the bottoms will indicate when I found the information.

If anyone is in a hurry then they can come to my home and be prepared to spend several wks sorting thur all of this stuff. Some of the useless stuff needs to be discarded anyway.

Eventually the web pages or copies of pages I referred to in the post will surface.

In the mean time Robt 99 please do NOT call me a liar nor try to make me out to be a basket case. I got upset because of your post and my energy for the evening went down the drain.

It is a fact - things change on the WEB - what was worded one way in 2000 is not and or has been cleaned up or shortened because they are not subjects the young people need or care about. Yes, things can get lost in the internet and go POOF! Why I believe in HARD copies.

In the mean time - you live in WA. Go to the historical part of a major library and find a very very old book about McNeil. Read it!

It was so old the library would not let me check it out - they had to acquire if for me. I read it in the library - and I made some copies of some pics and some pages in it - my income was limited and I had to work to provide for myself - little did I have to spare for paid copies. If I could check a book out - I took it to the office and copied away in the wee hours of the evening when the boss thought I was doing CMA's or proposals or flyers.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

Smoke Jumpers Part 2

This is how it read in 2000 May25.

"For the first time in the annal of military history of any namtion, a military orgtainzations of paratroopers was selected to become 'Airborn Firefighters The Triple Nickles became not only the 1st military fire fighting unit in the world, but pioneered methods of combating forest fires that are still in use today.

The conduct of the The Triple Nickles during the heretofore HIGHLY SECRET and untold story contrivuted immmeasurably to the well being of most Jampanese Americans in internment camps. If it were known that the Jampanese balloon, the first unmannned intercontinental ballistic missiles, had been successfuly in reaching our shores, the Jampanese military machine would have strengtyhenced its efforts in that area. If the secrecy of the 555 th's operation has been broken, thre is no telling what additional maltreatment would have befallen the incarcerated Japanese in western camps."

Not ROBT99 - EAT your words.
I certainly did not make these words up. Duane knew a man and his wife and kids in one of those damn camps and he knew where very damn camp was as he point out 1 of them to my daughter and I in North Colorado.

I do not know WHAT darn article you were reading! I have this one in BLACK and WHITE, but I can't find part 1...just part 2.

I did not even try to find the site, but will before I go to bed just to see how much it changed or if it even exists.

The article was written by Patrick O'Donnell in 1996 - you find it if is still available. This all happened just like he told it and the early history was what Duane told me - before they were reconized and when Frank Derry who by the way lived in Cal. helped them to start-up. He taught these guys how to jumps and NOT all of the were BLACK -many did NOT make it.

If you are writing a book - do your own DAMN research and try to get it right.

In mid 1945 is supposedly when Duane was put on probabation. Duane didn't have to pass for being Black because of who the family knew. YOU FIGURE that one out all by yourself!

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

If the FBI ACTUALLY investigates these yrs a lot will surface.
Early part of 1945 - he is supposedly sent to McNeil, but where did he really go.

If what I have found is correct we know where he was in 1947, but somehow he ends up in the CA penal system 2 yrs later. Did he escape or was he transferred - never found the answers on my own. One would think the FBI would at least clarifiy or explain the offsets in Weber's criminal history. Missing yrs start in July of 1945 and end in March of 1947, but the sentence he was arrested for in Ohio in 1947 but the trail ends. The time was served consecutively with the San Quentin and Folsom span so were was he from 1947 to 1951?
The Folsom record indicates the warrant from Ohio is cancelled in 1954.

All of this says he skipped out of Ohio someway...so the one who got away from the work farm was Weber. Some on on the thread found this unusual item about the Columbus, Ohio thing. I mentioned something about escapees. Does anyone remember the DATE of this escape? I am no good at these things.

Yrs little is known about Weber's location. July 1945 to March of 1947 (fits the bill with the story he told me). But were was he 1947 to 1951 - on the run or in jail. Did he escape and run right back to the N.W? Do we really know how much time he spent in the N.W. and his parents connections there and in CA?

You see I do Pay attention and why I kept harping on the missing yrs and why the stories he told me in WA in 1979 made sense - just to me, I guess.

Then we have 1962 to 1966 as John Collins 1966/1968 supposedly in prison under that name. How in the HELL did the system let a man with his record receive a Commutation of sentence under John Collins?

Why not under Duane L. Weber?
What did Weber/Collins do to earn this commutation or did the system just fail?

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

I do NOT need any CRAP from any of you - I am asking you to help not to run me down.

1945 -1946?
1947 - 1949?

I know he worked the area 1945 to 1946 and I believe he escaped from the work farm in Ohio 1947 and ended up back in WA. He had to see his Mommie and took a chance on going to CA - ended up getting caught - maybe his own father turned him in or he couldn't drop the habit of stealing (I never knew the specific crime he was convicted of in 1949 - papers say burgarly).

You guys wanted this now you are going to get it. I will be damn if some TV station is going to write me up as a comedy. This has been NO comedy and there have been NO laughs in this search! It is real and it really happened and the FBI missed it. NO one would listen to an old woman who rambled her facts. Now you guys start really working on the puzzle - PROVE Duane L. Weber, John C. Collins or what-ever his name was, was NOT Cooper.

I do not want to hear anything about - he didn't look like the composite. Depends on which composite and which witness....and NONE of that mean CRAP right now. I have always figured there was more in the FBI file than they wanted to disclose. Like - surely

Tina or someone else would have stated which hand Cooper held his smoke in and how he held the smoke?

By the way Duane's record indicates a scar on one of his hands - a scar he showed me but I could see - but very very faintly like the one I have in my palm when Glass tubing in Chemistry went thru it. Only if someone told you it was there!

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

I am trying to lay some things out so I can end this and would appreciate it if Knoss would just shut up about Duane or JO.

I do NOT want BK interjecting things into anything I am telling about Weber at this point. BK has absolutely NO knowledge of Duane and causes everything to go off subject just to deal with the stuff he throws out. If he really cared about this being solved he would just sit back and wait for the plane to arrive.

Hope you guys can do something about his and I will try to anwser your questions, but not questions deliberately staged to make an idiot out of me - such as interjecting The Bonneville Dam in place of something else. Correct me but don't try to make me sound like an idiot.

Sure - I have somethings wrong, but I know in my heart of hearts and my soul that Weber was Cooper - if anyone of you can PROVE he wasn't without trying to make a mockery of me or without deliberate lies, then do it. The dream was real and when he decided to reveal the truth it was too late - all he could do was attempt to redeem his soul.....He didn't need to do that - and I wish he had never told me any of it.

Now I just need to know the rest of the story - so I can spend what is left of my own life in peace. If Weber did NOT commit this crime - then why the nightmare about leaving prints on the plane in 1979 and why did he confess that he was Cooper at the end of life - 16 yrs later in 1995.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[Robert99 60]

  Quote

If my memory serves me right that was Called Bonneville Camp, but I am too tired tonight to look it up.

The stories have come down thru the yrs - but NO government files released.

The darn article I referred to did exist and hopefully I have hard copies of them.

Eventually the web pages or copies of pages I referred to in the post will surface.

In the mean time Robt 99 please do NOT call me a liar nor try to make me out to be a basket case. I got upset because of your post and my energy for the evening went down the drain.

In the mean time - you live in WA. Go to the historical part of a major library and find a very very old book about McNeil. Read it!

Jo, I did NOT call you a liar. I have never heard of Bonneville Camp.

I do NOT live in Washington at this time but I did in the mid-1940s. I have absolutely no interest in reading any book about any prison.

You and Knoss apparently use the same filing system and that is "trust me". You can't find the article that you have just quoted but you are certain it will surface eventually.

[skyjack71 0]

  Quote

Jo, I did NOT call you a liar. I have never heard of Bonneville Camp.

I do NOT live in Washington at this time but I did in the mid-1940s. I have absolutely no interest in reading any book about any prison.

You and Knoss apparently use the same filing system and that is "trust me". You can't find the article that you have just quoted but you are certain it will surface eventually.

If you do not know what Bonneville camp was and you want me to produce things that are lost on the internet - then get yourself to FL and you can find it yourself. Plan on about 2 months of reading and searching.
When you see the size of the file perhaps you will at least say "I'm sorry".

I don't have my stuff at my finger prints with the push of a button like you young geeks do!

You made that post after reading the stuff I just revealed! then you aren't serious about any of this - just someone looking for entertainment or throwing a cheap book together.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

I cannot believe any of you are this uninformed - especially those who live in Wa and those who have read this thread or kept up with this at all....especially you Robt Blevins.
You know what Camp Bonneville was.

CAMP BONNEVILLE IS NORTH OF WASHOUGAL - IT WAS A MILITARY RESERVATION and on that reservation was all of the things he pointed out to me as we cut over to 500.

Little Baldy, Camp Killpack, Munsell Hill, Spud Mt and Lilvingston MT. Hard to believe any of you do not know this. Go read all of my posts and my research from the very beginning and the story I told to the FBI. The creek Duane told me that run near the power lines that cut right through Camp Bonneville. Little Matney Creek was the creek that went under the power lines. There was a gravel pit on the property and there was a cemetary just West of it.

The damn pipe line ran thru the S.W. corner of it. You guys are supposed to know WA if you are writing books and talking about Cooper.

None of you remember the story he told me about Bonneville? Give me a break - all of these yrs and none of you know the geography and history of WASHINGTON? Surely you jest or this thread has been useless if NO one got the story about Camp Bonneville and the history of the Camp! Geeze I have discussed this camp many many time and the story that went with it. Also a little town south of there called Ireland - we even had a poster who contacted me who lived near there.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

Excerpts from a post by Amazon
When I was making my trip to WA and searching for the places Duane took me:

Oct 9, 2010, 11:18 PM


Jo Wrote:
So Duane could have had me East of Hockinson and maybe near the upper end of Bonneville Camp, but where is there a track anywhere near there?

I have never located a railtrack East of Hockinson. Those damn rail track just don't fit unless they were private logging tracks (is there such a thing)? Or did Bonneville have some tracks to move things in and out of there?
I could never find much of anything on Bonneville. Even the citizens I have spoke with said they never really knew what went on there.

-Amazon Replied:

The original logging camps were all connected via Rail to get the BIG logs out. You will find rail grades and old rail bridges all thru the DEATH WOODS. That whole area would have had railroad spurs there. Some are now roads.. others were abandoned.

To the east in the Columbia River Gorge you also find the old flume that goes down to the mill at Bingen WA. It was still working 20 years ago... and had a rough cut mill up in the hills and the wood was floated down the flume.

You may also want to stop by Scholls Airport out about 130th ave and NE 95th St.


(This post was edited by Amazon on Oct 9, 2010, 11:23 PM)



P.S. When I went to WA is when I realized Duane took me much higher than Hockinson and I believe I was turned around, but couldn't figure it out. I should have called her and asked for her help when I was there.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

Do these old posting of from yrs ago refresh anyone's mind about Bonneville Camp? I made this post before I went to WA in 2010.
I am not going to read it right now - because I am sure it will stand the test of time.


I forget the date but I am sure one of you savy searcher can find it even if you can't find Camp Bonneville:

  Quote

In 1996 thru 2001 I have repeatedly told this story about what Duane told me and showed me, but tonight after a conversation with a friend - some things were very clear to me that I wish to re-interate at this time.

I told anyone who would listen about what Duane told me and what I remembered at the point he said "That's were Cooper Walked out of the Woods".

I studied a map tonight and I believe I have recounted what I found on these maps before but there is something new - something I DIDN't see until tonight.

In telling the story I always mentioned the things Duane talked about. and pointed out - such as powerlines and pipelines and creeks and Camp Bonnevile.
Considering these things where mentioned to Mr. Thomas and to Himmelsbach and the FBI - WHY would anyone think I we went to Portland and crossed over the bridge to I-5. I consistently told Mr. Thomas that was NOT correct because we didn't go to Portland until after we LEFT Seattle going to Tahoe...at one point I think he convinced me of this - until I went out there in 2001.

When Duane and I were at Lake LaCames (which I had been told had to be the Columbia) - Duane took me to a pretty steep hill - or nob. We went on a dirt or gravel road with steep sides - at the top was a fenced area and wooden gate with small bolders - looking somewhat like an old homestead and with large old sparce trees in it. It was stately and eeriey this strange place at the top of this nob. This Nob was N.W. of the tributary - the tributary was E of the J.D. Currie Youth Camp.

This is the area that Duane pointed out the powerlines and where they converged. At this time he talked about a creek that came out of the Camp Bonneville area and crossed the pipelines and the powerlines. I have been studying some maps I had and some that Sluggo brought for me when he visited my home. Tonight I am seeing things I didn't see before or maybe it is this sudden urgency I am feeling to bring all of this to an end.

On the maps I found the Creek that comes under the pipelines from within the Camp Bonnevile area - I mentioned this in a prior post. What I didn't see before was because the power lines had not been highlighted is of interest.

Matney Creek and Little Matney Creek converge together at the power lines. Seeing as Duane made mention of the things located within the Bonneville Camp - and I am going to surmise he came out of the Little Matney Creek branch. Just below the point the creeks merge and South of the powerlines existing in 1971 is a bend in the river and this map of 1990 shows one structure there (do not know if it was there in 1971). It also indicates a pond of sorts at this point. This is where Cooper had to make a decision and it was dark. He could see a halo of lights to the South and what had become Matney Creek after the merge was East and dark.

It is my opinion that he took refuge there for the night - The next morning he had to make a decision - follow the creek or go in the direction of the light. Since he was very familiar with the area he chose to go South although there was no road or path or creek to follow - I believe he followed a ridge of sorts since I don't know the terrain in the area. About 4000 feet in this area he comes across more flowing water - this is the tributary that takes him again to the powerlines - as he knew there was another set of crossing lines south of those where the 2 creeks had merged.

He was on target because this tributary took him only a few feet from the criss cross of power lines just North West of the Lake. At this point he is hungry and he ventured on down to the lake - I am going to guess that someone had left food or staples in one of the fishing Cottages at the point on Lake LaCames. Duane mentioned knowing the caretaker of the Ledbetter mansion - although I didn't know in 1979 it was anything, but a very nice home. I have tried without any success to find out who the caretaker was in 1971. I have been told that the caretaker of the area lived up away from the Mansion in a separate quarters toward the North Eastern part of the Lake.

Somehow he finds food, but left whatever he had with him at a hiding place on that Knob - with all of these boulders - finding a hiding place would be easy. Later he goes back to this clearing and retrives his "stuff" and gets back under the power line - because he knows if he follows that line this will take him to another intersecting point with a power line goes South to the Columbia.

Now this is something I had not found before because I had been told Cooper would have to have walked thru populated areas...that power line to the Columbia was NOT populated in 1971 and if you waited until dark or very early morning - being spotted would not be likely. The locals had told me this over the yrs. but seeing it for myself on this map - was eye opening.

Remember the story he told me about that Marina in the Washougal area - guess where it is? Right there where those power lines came out to the Columbia and behind and North of the road trussels (hope I spelled that right).

I have repeatedly ask for someone to check the records of 1971 for a story about a boat missing from that Marina. The story Duane told me was that "they" thought it was a bunch of boys going for a joy ride. When he said this he had this grin on this face. Bear in mind that he did NOT tell me the Marina story until we where going home and we went East on the North side of the Columbia for a spell before turning back West to take the road to Tahoe. Since the boat thing was told to me several days later on the trip to Tahoe, I did NOT associate it with things he had said on our way to Seattle. He said the motor was set in full throttle and the boat released near the airport. Believe me when I say I didn't connect that with Cooper. I am not sure I even knew what city Cooper highjacked the plane from - hence why his remarks about the airport on 2 occassions did not mean anything to me at that time...nor did his throwing something into the river or his odd time down on the Columbia by himself on that return trip.

When I found these places in 2001 - I should have stayed in Portland until I could get the authorities to go see what I was talking about, but I had to get home and to my job. Since Mr Thomas nor the documentary Guide couldn't understand what I was trying to describe - I was feeling hopeless.

Had it not been for the Angel Udell I would never have found the primary locations in 2001. I have told the story about my Angel before I so I won't recount it again. I have, but one regret - that I did NOT stand my ground in 2001 and should have refused to have left Wa without answers.

This has been a long journey - 13 yrs and 3 months of my life used up since I found out who "Dan Cooper" was and went public to fight a battle that cannot be won. No one wants the truth. They want to forever debate or speculate who Cooper could have been. The investigative forces don't want to have to explain why they haven't been able to find out who Cooper was. They continue to state the letter of 1998 as proof that Weber was investigated and yet in 2000 the agent of record did not know Weber had been in the army in 1943 nor in McNeil
Island Prison in 1944.

The investigative forces produced DNA - but they have NO idea if that DNA belonged to Cooper. I have stated before and do so again that the DNA was compromised and that there was NO proof the tie belonged to Cooper - per Himmelsbach it was found on the seat next to where Cooper was sitting. I was told a story about a "tie" and Weber, but have no personal knowledge or it it was true.

Missing yrs in the life of Weber are 1944-1949 and 1962 - 1966.
I have heard about this or that person writing a book about his or her "Cooper" - but no one except Duane Weber ever said "I am Dan Cooper". I cannot take away the fact that I saw and held the ticket in my hands, a parking stub with Sea-Tac on it and a bank bag. I have been called delusional and I call myself crazy out of self-defense.

Thru out these yrs I have had to contend with being called a LIAR and made the brunt of many untruths. I lost clients because of my involvement with the past of my husband and damaged relationships. I have spent the better part of these 13 plus yrs. defending what I did know and searching for answers to what I didn't know.

Thur out these yrs many contacts have taken place - good and bad, but one was a night clerk at an Inn in 1971 who said Duane Weber spent the night before the crime at his place of employment. The FBI was informed of this in 2001, but made NO attempts to interview the man. He was out of the country for 5 yrs and returned to the states in 2008 due to illness. At that time he took a statement into the the Portland FBI office. It was not until then that the FBI took the time to contact him and then all they did was make a phone call. While he was in the states another party made a video of his statement - but this would have been more convincing if the FBI had interviewed him in 2001 prior to his having been influence by contact with me and the internet.

There have been over the yrs since I contacted the FBI in 1996 a lot of Cooper Wannabes and a lot of Cooper suspects and a few books written. None lived this secret life Weber lived and none left in a safe deposit box a $20. bill. What did Duane Weber leave in a safe deposit box - a Soldier of Fortune Magazine dated December 1994. Everyone in this forum knows what was in that Magazine, but what did it mean? There was nothing else in that box.


As for whatever he may have put away under his AKA John C. Collins I have no legal access to because I was unable to prove I was the widow of John C. Collins. To prove that Duane L. Weber and John C. Collins were the same person I would need access to his Jefferson Prison File which the FBI never made available to me. The FBI offered no explanation of how or why a government would provided a COMMUTATION of Sentence to a man who had already spent 15 yrs in 5 other prisons. He had only served 2 yrs of his sentence.

I am recapping these things because I need to move on and I need to go public with all of these things I have shared with this forum and to express my thanks to all of you for your patience and for all the information you have provided since November of 2006. In November of this yrs 2009 - the Cooper incident will be 38 yrs old.
My plight will have endured almost 14 yrs with his confession and in 2010 it will have been 15 yrs since his passing on March 28 1995.

I will come see you all once in a while but I have to step back a little because Life is TOO short and I am very tired. Maybe this yrs I will actually take a chance getting on a plane and go to WA in November...It is time to bury Duane L. Weber aka John C. Collins aka Dan Cooper.

You Will Never Know If You Don't Know Now. Perhaps he sang that song to me for a reason. Damn him for ever telling me anything - Damn him! Why couldn't he have just kept his damn secret?

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[matthewcline 0]

  Quote

  Quote

  Quote

"You made this post just hours ago. Since we all know you can scan and attach items to your posts, I challenge you to prove this statement of 50 pages to be true.

Scan them, so they are legible, and post them in the next six hours, or accept that we will add this "50 pages" statement to the rest of the fact-less fable.

It does not serve your "cause" to call Jo a liar. It speaks to the Kettle/pot thing.

So by 1630 CDT, post the scans.

Tick tick tick tick... "
___________________________________________

Matt Cline: You have proven yourself totally untrustworthy of handling sensitive information. Retarded is a polite term that I used in the past, but there is no good term to describe your opinionated attacks on the truth from Jo and me. Your complete lack of knowledge and assumption of planted evidence and false testimony is exemplatory of counter-intelligence at work. You definitely can not be trusted with my documents. They are bona facia evidence that support everything I have said. You would absolutely attempt to use them as "more character assassination evidence" against me. You are as predictable as your, "tick-tick-tick." I'd really like to carry on a discussion with a Mensa group instead of a Minstrel group. (Picture a bandwagon pulled by an official chicken-shit FBI cover-up crew. Picture Jo being towed behind in a Red Flier wagon, waving and throwing suckers to all the onlookers.) It would appear the Canadian Mounted Police made a prior entry in force, based on the residual evidence, or was it the Cooper bandwagon that generated that stenchful litter? Pretty obvious to everyone what the answer to that one is. Used oats cast no votes. Truth talks, horse shit walks.

Then you should walk.

You can't answer the direct question, because you lied. There are no notes. It was a lie, you got caught, again, simple.

I have held a security clearance far higher than you, since you never held one, any would be higher I suppose. That process alone, is why I know your story to be farce and so laughable.

And even if there was 50 pages of hand written notes, they would amount to nothing. Modern science would prove they didn't happen to be written at the right time, and would not have been from the none existent project. That is called a forgery in the art world.

That whole response above was just more of your fantasy, and is drivel. Plus you had to resort to name calling, very grade school play ground. Remember resorting to name calling and insults is a indicator of a lack of character, intelligence, and facts, to bring to the discussion.

Chief is laughing so hard, breathing is difficult.

At least Jo is proving, with evidence, where her ideas and notions come from, and as she does disproving your "case", BTW.

Jo's case at least makes a bit of sense, but I think Duane may have known, or thought he knew, the Suspect, not actually have been the suspect, the drawing of the suspect and Duane are just too far off. Plus, just being around those trained in some activity doesn't mean you able to do that activity. And of course it could all be coincidence, and mean nothing at all.

Matt

Silly, Matt. You ALWAYS make unsupported statements for the sole purpose of flaming. You ALWAYS approach every position from the false side and insist on the truth being wrong. Even a total blithering idiot would get something right, just by law of averages! Go back to your pablum, kid. You have much learning to do. I do not like you, do not want to talk to you, and am bored to death by your one track badgering. You obviously have NO interest in the truth at all. ABSOLUTELY NONE!

So still with the childish antics and no actual FACTS to introduce?

No truth to discuss? just lies and fabrications?

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!