skyjack71 0 #32976 July 7, 2012 Quote I respect your statements and thank you for the clarifications. The information I contribute was given to me by McCoy long before meeting Jo, so it was not built on her information, her information only confirms what I had been told. Mac told me he was looking for a patsy and chose JER. Your post is NOT worthy of being repeated! ENOUGH is ENOUGH! YOU know YOU did not tell me anything other than you knew Duane and claimed to have known the wife. I proved you DID NOT know the wife and you had NO idea she was still alive. Originally you never heard of TG and then you used his name as McCoy's. You kept expanding your claims and the garbage started to spew. When you found I was in contact with the wife of the day, you doubled back and claimed she might not have been his wife, but a FBI "type" who was supposed to "control" him. I know WHO was with him during those days. I have had ENOUGH of your lies and fabrications. You knew NOTHING about Duane nor his friends. You created STORIES but had NO knowledge of Duane's wife or her family and you even had the time span wrong. You accuse her of doing a robbery and told Grey it was in the papers. NO records of an arrest existed and NO article in any newspaper. I DID NOT VALIDATE YOUR STORY and never will.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #32977 July 7, 2012 I suggest anyone who intends to state I said this or that - be prepared. I have paper copies of emails dating from Jan of 2000 before I learned how to save them. In 2004 that computer crashed, but the guy made a disk for me - since they are on a very very old version of AOL - I do NOT know how to retrive them. I just retrived the first volume 4 inch thick....of paper copies! In this email I am describing to Doug Pasternak where and what Duane said. NOTE: I had only a recently acquire map of the state of WA and realized Jerry Thomas had been playing GAMES with me. Mar of 2000: The only time I had been to WA at that time was in 1979 with Duane Weber. It would be May of 2001 before I set foot in WA and when I returned some one made sure I got a Really GOOD map of WA. Doug and I are discussing a time for him to come see me. The Trip - just the highlights as the post is 1 & 1/2 pages long. I talk about the trip to Seattle in Sept or Oct of 1979 & Duane wanting to take an extra day. We are on Hwy 14 on the WA side and I am not sure where we had crossed over from OR to WA. Duane made a statement that he had missed his turn and I grabbed the Atlas - suddenly he said "No, here it is" (this was the turn into Washougal off of 14 - knowledge I would gain in 2001 on my 1st trip to WA and no credit to the TV program or JT - but to the Angel Udell - the woman truck driver who came to my aid at the river). I asked where we are going but do not remember his answer. "We went to an area with a gravel road or it had rocks in it. We parked looking out over a body of water" (NOTE I SAID BODY OF WATER NOT RIVER) "and he got out of the car. We both got out at this time. He said there used to be some cottages to our right. There is some evidence of one of the cottage foundations left. Across the water he pointed out a logging road and told me there was a tower down that road. I ask him how he knew this and he told me he knew the area like the back of his hand". "The road turned at the waters edge across the water and he told me about a Boy's Scout camp or some kind of camp not far away." I tell about us pulling back on a paved road and a concrete thing that went under the road, but only after we turned back...after a side trip up a Mt. the one with the wood gate and fence and the rocks and tall mostly dead trees and large large rocks scattered out in the area - like a cemetary. I use the word River in this description because I thought it was a river when it actually was a long narrow lake in 1979 - now it is over grown and larger and looks like a lake. Where the cabins used to be - is not under water now but and not in 2001 when the generous people of WA took me where the TV people nor JT would take me....JT denied such places existed and still denies this to this day. Yet, I told him on the phone or tried to describe the same things I described in this old email of Mar 2000 - yet he has called me a Liar over and over for yrs. Most of my communication with Jerry were by phone - so he was able to twist me and turn me and I would argue NO NO, but he was supposed to be the man on the ground! Who was I - a woman who had only been to WA in 1979 and didn't even have a map of the area. Jerry to this day says I changed things after I was out there - well, well - this email was written more than a yr before I went to WA in 2001 One can twist the words all they want by arguing with me - but the written word of March 2000 STANDS! Jerry loves putting WORDS in the mouths of others and that is what he did - he has NEVER EVER talked about my MT or hill - has denied its existence to me and made sure he never addressed it in the written word in this thread. As I read I had just obtained a map of the State of Wa. I will note that map was just a simple State map and did NOT show the lake...but I knew it was NOT the Columbia we were on and Jerry was misleading me - but WHY? It was on the return trip from Seattle Duane went off of I-5 to the West. This certainly explains the sequence of discovery. No map then nothing, but a simple state map and then a trip to WA in 2001 - when I knew JT had been lieing to me for 4 yrs. Didn't know why. Did he really think he could get by with this and still does - because he claims to have tape which would have been illegal, but at any rate he would take my words and twist them for his own benefit as he still does. I really think Jerry Thomas is evil to the core...I was treated like a prisoner of war - the way they treat them in the movies and force them to say this or that or they don't eat or sleep. He was extremely controling on the phone everytime I tired to describe what I had seen. He would say NO you didn't go there or you didn't see that - there is no such thing...it was endless and in 2001 I did not talk to him until he found this thread. I mention in the letter Duane holding his cigarette with his left hand. Had I not have written this - I would not have remembered this. Perhaps the FBI files will reflect that Cooper held his smoke with the left hand...and he held the smoke in a rather femine way very often - like a woman would handle a smoke and not a man. I note I NEVER SAID Duane had a limp, but that one of his legs had some damage around the knee area and in a Dr. report it was referred to as an old injury. I comment about my dressing him to take to the hospital that last time and asking him about his knee. He said "I got it jumping out of a plane".I remembered looking up at my husband who was bleeding and making a rather cocky remark for the 1st time. "YOU, jump out of a plane - Give me a break". I had also forgot Duane drank "Stingers" when I first met him. I don't even know what a Stinger is anymore. Later it was Chivas and brandy. WHAT IS A STINGER? It was probably just my hearing him order it - I dranked wine or a toasted almond or whiskey sour. John (Duane's brother) had already told me Duane was in McNeil, but the FBI claimed he wasn't. Doug would obtain the PROOF Duane was in McNeil and THEN I confront the FBI agent after he again states Duane was NOT in McNeil...and Doug has sent me the PROOF...I am on the phone holding it in my hands. The FBI agent had also said Duane was NOT in the Army. I have that PROOF in my hands, ALL because Doug Pasternac had the ability to obtain records I could NOT and the FBI took full advantage of my ignorance - they just never dreamt I would ever be able to find these thing. I didn't find them - Doug did and then I confonted the FBI and you guys know the story from that point. I finally get a copy of the newer composite and it arrive while my daughter was there - and her response after looking at what I had in my hands on the ground because my knees had gone out from under me. She thought I was having a problem and when she saw what I was waving up at her she looked at tht composite and remarked. "I'll be damned - I guess he was Cooper"Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #32978 July 7, 2012 Did the FBI think I would NOT keep records? Did Jerry think I was that STUPID or is it the other way round - WAS it about Control or was it because he was involved or knew who was? This one email creates a BOOMERANG for not only the FBI but for Jerry? What the hell has been going on for 17 yrs - maybe old BK isn't so crazy after all. His mind is all screwed up and his memory has been scrambled - but there was always some little "thing" that caused me put up with him and listen to his tales - a seed he does not even realize is there. The information is twisted just like Jerry tried to twist my memory about the trip.... and use of coercion to force me to accept what he said along with the threats he made over the yrs. Wonder if Knoss knows Jerry's or Georger's or Sluggo's voice over the phone. He says TOG calls him or McCoy. Would someone who reads this thread stoop so low as to actually make calls to Knoss claiming to be someone from the past...using this man to keep the waters muddy so NO one will hear the truth. Perhaps Jerry and maybe even the FBI has tried to manuever me for 17 yrs. If one reads the old emails - that is what seems to come across. Perhaps it was thought I would die or just fade away and no one would have to deal with me. YOU THINK? Well, all it took was Grey selling the rights to the book for a COMEDY! Not going to happen! This thing is getting ready to BOOMERANG on the FBI if they don't take some action really fast....like yesterday. I have enough just in 3 paper emails to make someone STOP and THINK and listen TO WHAT all has been going on for the last 12 yrs. MY proof that Jerry has tried to maneiver & control me - BUT, one has to ask WHY? A lot of WHYS, but at least I have documents to support Jerry has tried to control things and the FBI actually lied to me more than once....why would they find it necessary to lie about Duane's Army and prison records. Even in this thread we have an agent who claimed they used the McNeil file for prints. YET, I have others who stated Duane was NOT in McNeil. Same goes for the Army record! Jerry's intervention and deliberately trying to convince me this was not this and it was that! His contacting media and telling them I am a liar - if I told him anything different it was because I had NO map or he interprets things a little differently than others do. That is Obvious from his postings in the thread. I told you guys I was going to let loose before the bottom fell out! If you have questions ask them.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BobKnoss 0 #32979 July 7, 2012 Quote Quote I respect your statements and thank you for the clarifications. The information I contribute was given to me by McCoy long before meeting Jo, so it was not built on her information, her information only confirms what I had been told. Mac told me he was looking for a patsy and chose JER. Your post is NOT worthy of being repeated! ENOUGH is ENOUGH! YOU know YOU did not tell me anything other than you knew Duane and claimed to have known the wife. I proved you DID NOT know the wife and you had NO idea she was still alive. Originally you never heard of TG and then you used his name as McCoy's. You kept expanding your claims and the garbage started to spew. When you found I was in contact with the wife of the day, you doubled back and claimed she might not have been his wife, but a FBI "type" who was supposed to "control" him. I know WHO was with him during those days. I have had ENOUGH of your lies and fabrications. You knew NOTHING about Duane nor his friends. You created STORIES but had NO knowledge of Duane's wife or her family and you even had the time span wrong. You accuse her of doing a robbery and told Grey it was in the papers. NO records of an arrest existed and NO article in any newspaper. I DID NOT VALIDATE YOUR STORY and never will. You are totally incorrect about the truth of the matter. I DO NOT LIE LIKE YOU DO. Once you lie, your credibility is no longer accepted. In court when you lie, ALL of your testimony is THROWN OUT, as yours should be here. Your information can not be trusted. You are a serial liar. Your only saving grace with me is I know the difference. When you speak the truth it is consistent with what I know. You make me laugh with these reversals. Biggest problem is that you can't remember all the lies!! Red and white canopy, white canopy when you never saw anything. No fire tower, fire tower, milk can, milk pail, don't know Mac, leave him alone, "Once there was one, now there are three, find my wife and you will find me!" One after another, constantly. A person would have to be dumber than a frickin' rock to swallow your deceptions. And you want ANYONE to believe you? You are a LOSE CANNON. Nobody trusts what you might say, because you constantly lie. Practically every post about me contains lies. They are obvious. Scrambled eggs? No. Scorned payback? Yup. I believe everything I present is the absolute truth. Most of it was first hand, or I explain it. I would say the same thing under oath. I am not an investigator, I am a witness. You don't seem to comprehend the difference. When I tell you that Duane was told to say that he didn't have a grudge against Northwest, he just had a grudge, I'm am telling you that those words were given to both of us at the same time, not that someone said that was the case. I heard the actual words same as Duane at the same time from the same person. Witness. No guessing, no investigation, no secondhand "I think", or "something like", I memorized it as instructed, for a specific purpose, and I am not wrong. There is one person who knows this to be fact and we have discussed it. That person was impressed. I have 50 pages of exact quotations, word for word of instructional conversation consistent with what transpired on flight 305. NOT he said, she said. It makes everything crystal clear. But it is of no value without that second signature. Ain't gunna happen. Go figure. End of conversation. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #32980 July 7, 2012 Quote Quote Quote I respect your statements and thank you for the clarifications. The information I contribute was given to me by McCoy long before meeting Jo, so it was not built on her information, her information only confirms what I had been told. Mac told me he was looking for a patsy and chose JER. Your post is NOT worthy of being repeated! ENOUGH is ENOUGH! YOU know YOU did not tell me anything other than you knew Duane and claimed to have known the wife. I proved you DID NOT know the wife and you had NO idea she was still alive. Originally you never heard of TG and then you used his name as McCoy's. You kept expanding your claims and the garbage started to spew. When you found I was in contact with the wife of the day, you doubled back and claimed she might not have been his wife, but a FBI "type" who was supposed to "control" him. I know WHO was with him during those days. I have had ENOUGH of your lies and fabrications. You knew NOTHING about Duane nor his friends. You created STORIES but had NO knowledge of Duane's wife or her family and you even had the time span wrong. You accuse her of doing a robbery and told Grey it was in the papers. NO records of an arrest existed and NO article in any newspaper. I DID NOT VALIDATE YOUR STORY and never will. You are totally incorrect about the truth of the matter. I DO NOT LIE LIKE YOU DO. Once you lie, your credibility is no longer accepted. In court when you lie, ALL of your testimony is THROWN OUT, as yours should be here. Your information can not be trusted. You are a serial liar. Your only saving grace with me is I know the difference. When you speak the truth it is consistent with what I know. You make me laugh with these reversals. Biggest problem is that you can't remember all the lies!! Red and white canopy, white canopy when you never saw anything. No fire tower, fire tower, milk can, milk pail, don't know Mac, leave him alone, "Once there was one, now there are three, find my wife and you will find me!" One after another, constantly. A person would have to be dumber than a frickin' rock to swallow your deceptions. And you want ANYONE to believe you? You are a LOSE CANNON. Nobody trusts what you might say, because you constantly lie. Practically every post about me contains lies. They are obvious. Scrambled eggs? No. Scorned payback? Yup. I believe everything I present is the absolute truth. Most of it was first hand, or I explain it. I would say the same thing under oath. I am not an investigator, I am a witness. You don't seem to comprehend the difference. When I tell you that Duane was told to say that he didn't have a grudge against Northwest, he just had a grudge, I'm am telling you that those words were given to both of us at the same time, not that someone said that was the case. I heard the actual words same as Duane at the same time from the same person. Witness. No guessing, no investigation, no secondhand "I think", or "something like", I memorized it as instructed, for a specific purpose, and I am not wrong. There is one person who knows this to be fact and we have discussed it. That person was impressed. I have 50 pages of exact quotations, word for word of instructional conversation consistent with what transpired on flight 305. NOT he said, she said. It makes everything crystal clear. But it is of no value without that second signature. Ain't gunna happen. Go figure. End of conversation. You made this post just hours ago. Since we all know you can scan and attach items to your posts, I challenge you to prove this statement of 50 pages to be true. Scan them, so they are legible, and post them in the next six hours, or accept that we will add this "50 pages" statement to the rest of the fact-less fable. It does not serve your "cause" to call Jo a liar. It speaks to the Kettle/pot thing. So by 1630 CDT, post the scans. Tick tick tick tick... MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #32981 July 7, 2012 Quote It does not serve your "cause" to call Jo a liar. It speaks to the Kettle/pot thing. So by 1630 CDT, post the scans. Tick tick tick tick... Matt Matt, my next few posts will take several days. This one is a summary of a post dated3/25/2000 McNeil-Stiliccon Prison: Why it is labeled this I do not remember, but subsequent emails may explain where this was going or why it is. This was research that Doug and I were doing and others who where helping me. Remember Duane told me about the Triple Nickles and was spoke about Walla Walla. He explained to me who the they were and told me the story about not being able to go into restuarants to get food. The Triple Nickles (were not called this in the beginning) and their initial training started near Portland. De. 1955 - jan 1945 the Triples grew to a strenght of 400 and the change of station was Pendelton Air Base - ninth command...HIGHLY CLASSIFIED mission. May 1945 the battalion left Camp Hackal for Oregon. Sept. 1944 Portland Oregon dateline headed "firefighters Use Parachutes". The story reported that "Crews" have been droooed by parachute to fight for many areas of the Northwest. Six fires in 48 hours. 8 man unit crew was drooped to fight a blaze3 in the Lost Hors Country of ID. Ohter Parachutiste were into the back woods of Chelan Nation Forest - a 300 Acre Fire. May 6 of 1944 strange objects on the ground from the air proved to be Japanese bombs tht had traveled across the Pacific on Hydrogen-filled ballloons. A tightly guardedsecret for a time - Balloon Boms. Nov. 1944 - Chemical Biologice warfar concernes. It was at this time that Duane's Uncle was called by to duty - he had served in WW1 and helped develope Chemical Warfar. When he was called in WW11 at that time he did civil service and we believe he went to OR and WA. Duane had been sentenced to McNeil.l Duane's short stint at Camp Siebert was spent in the CW Rgnt. unit. (Chemical Warfare Traing). The 555 parachue infantry Battalion by now had acquired a new Nick Name "Smoke Jumpers" and the WA Oregonproject be came known as "Operation Firefly". These teams would rush to forest fires adn areas where there were suspected Japanese Bombs. They found this presented an entirely new proble do to teh densely forested drop zones adn the had to learn to read forestry maps and that was different from military maps. Firefighting was entriely a new experience for them. You will find most of this a site orgininally located at http://wwww.thedropzone.org?training/smokejmp.html. I can no longer find this site. MOSTS of th jumpers were blacke and trained at FORT BENNING. Duane with his curly hair and dark complexion often passed as black or mixed.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #32982 July 7, 2012 There WAS a lot of information at http://www.thedropzone.org/training?smokejm2.html I do not know if this site is still there, but the contact was Patrick O'Donnell. Nylon Rope was used to lower themselves from trees (could that be what was in the paper bag as NO ONE has ever stated what size the bag was Cooper took onto the plane. This way if he hit a tree - he had a way down. The article called Continuation of the Smoke Jumpers Story was in a virtual Museum. Tells how what they were learning to do was NOT normal or known. They used their BARE hands to manipulate the shourd line to control their landing site (exactly what DUANE told me). ON June 8 specially selected men began work with bomb disposal units ot the Army Sevice Command learning the business of handling unexploded bombs. The new chute training was under Frank Derry (also a man Duane claimed to have known from CA and family connections with). Much of his developement was done in area near where Duane lived in CA. A new chute was designed for maneuverability. They learnd to turn themselves in 360's degree circling movments - to seek a wider choice of landing area - a vital factor when trying to avoid tangles with the highest trees. Training consisted of 3 jumps. 2 in clearings and 1 in the heavy forest. C-47 pilots carried the jumper hence why I seached for Ed Huran...claimed to be Copter pilot and mechanic - knew Duane from WA. NOT all of the jumpers were 555th and NOT all of them were back from flying "the hump" in S.E. Asia. Over serveral month things evolved with 2 home bases one in Northern CA and one in Oregon. Chico Base. From July 14 to Oct 6. Capt Biggs - Pilots and Jumpmasters. Where was Biggs originally from? The Chico and Pendlton base participated in 35 of fire mission with indiviudal jumps totaling twelve hundered Very tired - will continue this later tonight. I am very very tired today so I am going back to bed. I was just getting to the GOOD STUFF!Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #32983 July 7, 2012 I do not know why you responded to me after I responded to Knoss. I also do not see a link to DW and the 555th, unless you're stating he also faked his race as well as identity? Be clear , no more "codes" and "baits" MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Robert99 60 #32984 July 7, 2012 Quote I do not know why you responded to me after I responded to Knoss. I also do not see a link to DW and the 555th, unless you're stating he also faked his race as well as identity? Be clear , no more "codes" and "baits" Matt Jo, if you can handle some actual "facts" about smoke jumpers, Japanese balloon bombs, etc., then read on. In the 1944 to 1946 period and at a very young age, I lived near the Chelan, Washington area that you mention in your posts above. During that period, I never saw or heard of a forest fire or smoke jumper in that area. I have never seen or heard of a military smoke jumper. The smoke jumpers that I have heard of, but have never seen jump, were civilians who usually jumped in pairs. That is, one fire and two smoke jumpers. They were the "first responders" of their day and, if necessary, I suppose they were reinforced by ground crews as fast as possible. I did in fact see one of those Japanese balloon bombs in flight near Wenatchee, Washington in that time frame. A young friend and I were playing outside and our attention was attracted by the sound of a couple of airplanes above. We spotted two P-38s circling a white object that we initially thought was a parachute. But the object didn't come down and drifted on off to the east. We later heard that the P-38s shot it down when it got over an unsettled area. Also, the friend I was with saw another one of those balloons a couple of days later. There is a book out on these balloons and I think I can identify the one I saw based on information in that book. The only people known to have been killed by these balloons were some young children who were on a Sunday School picnic somewhere in Oregon with their minister and his wife. They arrived at the picnic table area, the minister's wife and the children got out of the car with their picnic baskets, and the minister moved the car to a parking lot several hundred feet away. Before he could walk back to their picnic table, the children found the balloon bomb, started playing with it, it exploded and killed several of them. There was no panic about these balloons anywhere along the line. My friends and I were only told that if you find something strange when out hiking in the woods, to leave it alone, and get in touch with the authorities. I might add that was in the day when kids and cops were friends. Also, in that time frame, I doubt if there was a black only parachute unit. Blacks were discriminated against in the military in that time period and they were limited to certain job specialities. In fact, there may not have been a single black paratrooper then. Personally, I would place Jo's military smoke jumpers in the same category as her "codes" and other myths related to Duane. Just beer talk. Robert99 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrshutter45 21 #32985 July 7, 2012 Is this what you are talking about? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_balloon"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #32986 July 7, 2012 "During the winter of 1944–45, the Japanese sent 9000 fire balloons toward the western coast of North America. It was believed 1000 succeeded in reaching the United States, and 300 were witnessed. After three days, each balloon dropped an incendiary bomb.[2] In order to conceal the efficacy of these attacks, the missions of the 555th was kept clandestine in nature. In addition to fires started by the enemy incendiary devices, the 555th fought numerous other forest fires. Stationed at Pendleton Field (site of initial training for the Doolittle's raid on Japan) Oregon, with a detachment in Chico, California, unit members courageously participated in dangerous fire-fighting missions throughout the Pacific Northwest during the summer and fall of 1945. The group engaged in over 1200 missions, earning the nickname "Smoke Jumpers" in addition to "Triple Nickles." The only fatality in the unit died while jumping on 6 August 1945." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/555th_Parachute_Infantry_Battalion_%28United_States%29 The 555th is real, they did do the missions claimed. The arrived on the NW Coast in May of '45, stayed till the went east (late '46? iirc ) to be assigned to the 82nd eventually ('47). Having met and spoken with many vets of that unit, as well as read the AAR's, and watched the various training and documentary films. I am pretty confident it is true. MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Robert99 60 #32987 July 7, 2012 Quote Is this what you are talking about? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_balloon Yes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Robert99 60 #32988 July 7, 2012 Quote "During the winter of 1944–45, the Japanese sent 9000 fire balloons toward the western coast of North America. It was believed 1000 succeeded in reaching the United States, and 300 were witnessed. After three days, each balloon dropped an incendiary bomb.[2] In order to conceal the efficacy of these attacks, the missions of the 555th was kept clandestine in nature. In addition to fires started by the enemy incendiary devices, the 555th fought numerous other forest fires. Stationed at Pendleton Field (site of initial training for the Doolittle's raid on Japan) Oregon, with a detachment in Chico, California, unit members courageously participated in dangerous fire-fighting missions throughout the Pacific Northwest during the summer and fall of 1945. The group engaged in over 1200 missions, earning the nickname "Smoke Jumpers" in addition to "Triple Nickles." The only fatality in the unit died while jumping on 6 August 1945." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/555th_Parachute_Infantry_Battalion_%28United_States%29 The 555th is real, they did do the missions claimed. The arrived on the NW Coast in May of '45, stayed till the went east (late '46? iirc ) to be assigned to the 82nd eventually ('47). Having met and spoken with many vets of that unit, as well as read the AAR's, and watched the various training and documentary films. I am pretty confident it is true. Matt Matt, You are right about the 555th black parachute unit. However, the Doolittle Raiders trained in the Pensacola, Florida area. Elgin AFB to be exact. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #32989 July 7, 2012 Although the point of my post was the 555th. The confusion is understandable since that was the units assigned base upon receiving the mission. "The 17th BG, then flying antisubmarine patrols from Pendleton, Oregon, was immediately moved cross-country to Lexington County Army Air Base at Columbia, South Carolina, ostensibly to fly similar patrols off the East Coast of the United States but in actuality to prepare for the mission against Japan. The group officially transferred effective 9 February to Columbia, where its combat crews were offered the opportunity to volunteer for an "extremely hazardous" but unspecified mission. On 17 February the group was detached from the Eighth Air Force." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doolittle_Raid But, this whole side trip through history is mute, if there is no connection between the all black Paratroopers and the white Suspect. Plus, it just adds to the chaff that fills this thread. MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Robert99 60 #32990 July 7, 2012 Quote Although the point of my post was the 555th. The confusion is understandable since that was the units assigned base upon receiving the mission. "The 17th BG, then flying antisubmarine patrols from Pendleton, Oregon, was immediately moved cross-country to Lexington County Army Air Base at Columbia, South Carolina, ostensibly to fly similar patrols off the East Coast of the United States but in actuality to prepare for the mission against Japan. The group officially transferred effective 9 February to Columbia, where its combat crews were offered the opportunity to volunteer for an "extremely hazardous" but unspecified mission. On 17 February the group was detached from the Eighth Air Force." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doolittle_Raid But, this whole side trip through history is mute, if there is no connection between the all black Paratroopers and the white Suspect. Plus, it just adds to the chaff that fills this thread. Matt You are right again. Robert99 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #32991 July 7, 2012 Quote Quote Quote Quote I respect your statements and thank you for the clarifications. The information I contribute was given to me by McCoy long before meeting Jo, so it was not built on her information, her information only confirms what I had been told. Mac told me he was looking for a patsy and chose JER. Your post is NOT worthy of being repeated! ENOUGH is ENOUGH! YOU know YOU did not tell me anything other than you knew Duane and claimed to have known the wife. I proved you DID NOT know the wife and you had NO idea she was still alive. Originally you never heard of TG and then you used his name as McCoy's. You kept expanding your claims and the garbage started to spew. When you found I was in contact with the wife of the day, you doubled back and claimed she might not have been his wife, but a FBI "type" who was supposed to "control" him. I know WHO was with him during those days. I have had ENOUGH of your lies and fabrications. You knew NOTHING about Duane nor his friends. You created STORIES but had NO knowledge of Duane's wife or her family and you even had the time span wrong. You accuse her of doing a robbery and told Grey it was in the papers. NO records of an arrest existed and NO article in any newspaper. I DID NOT VALIDATE YOUR STORY and never will. You are totally incorrect about the truth of the matter. I DO NOT LIE LIKE YOU DO. Once you lie, your credibility is no longer accepted. In court when you lie, ALL of your testimony is THROWN OUT, as yours should be here. Your information can not be trusted. You are a serial liar. Your only saving grace with me is I know the difference. When you speak the truth it is consistent with what I know. You make me laugh with these reversals. Biggest problem is that you can't remember all the lies!! Red and white canopy, white canopy when you never saw anything. No fire tower, fire tower, milk can, milk pail, don't know Mac, leave him alone, "Once there was one, now there are three, find my wife and you will find me!" One after another, constantly. A person would have to be dumber than a frickin' rock to swallow your deceptions. And you want ANYONE to believe you? You are a LOSE CANNON. Nobody trusts what you might say, because you constantly lie. Practically every post about me contains lies. They are obvious. Scrambled eggs? No. Scorned payback? Yup. I believe everything I present is the absolute truth. Most of it was first hand, or I explain it. I would say the same thing under oath. I am not an investigator, I am a witness. You don't seem to comprehend the difference. When I tell you that Duane was told to say that he didn't have a grudge against Northwest, he just had a grudge, I'm am telling you that those words were given to both of us at the same time, not that someone said that was the case. I heard the actual words same as Duane at the same time from the same person. Witness. No guessing, no investigation, no secondhand "I think", or "something like", I memorized it as instructed, for a specific purpose, and I am not wrong. There is one person who knows this to be fact and we have discussed it. That person was impressed. I have 50 pages of exact quotations, word for word of instructional conversation consistent with what transpired on flight 305. NOT he said, she said. It makes everything crystal clear. But it is of no value without that second signature. Ain't gunna happen. Go figure. End of conversation. You made this post just hours ago. Since we all know you can scan and attach items to your posts, I challenge you to prove this statement of 50 pages to be true. Scan them, so they are legible, and post them in the next six hours, or accept that we will add this "50 pages" statement to the rest of the fact-less fable. It does not serve your "cause" to call Jo a liar. It speaks to the Kettle/pot thing. So by 1630 CDT, post the scans. Tick tick tick tick... Matt Brrrrrrrrriiiiiiiiingggggggggggg!!!!!!!!! Well, 1630 CDT, came and went, no response, no proof. So there must not be 50 ages of notes. I would suspect a few teaser pages that are hastily "assembled", yeah "assembled", might be posted and as more are "assembled" they might make it here too. Don't get writers cramp while you "assemble" those notes Mr. Knoss. And yes you did log on and knew. See attached. MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrshutter45 21 #32992 July 7, 2012 Good one on the log in, would of been awesome to wait and hear him say he just read your comment, then hit him with the screen shot Still a good one, wonder how many keyboards he smashes a month "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #32993 July 7, 2012 Quote "During the winter of 1944–45, the Japanese sent 9000 fire balloons toward the western coast of North America. It was believed 1000 succeeded in reaching the United States, and 300 were witnessed. After three days, each balloon dropped an incendiary bomb.[2] In order to conceal the efficacy of these attacks, the missions of the 555th was kept clandestine in nature. In addition to fires started by the enemy incendiary devices, the 555th fought numerous other forest fires. Stationed at Pendleton Field (site of initial training for the Doolittle's raid on Japan) Oregon, with a detachment in Chico, California, unit members courageously participated in dangerous fire-fighting missions throughout the Pacific Northwest during the summer and fall of 1945. The group engaged in over 1200 missions, earning the nickname "Smoke Jumpers" in addition to "Triple Nickles." The only fatality in the unit died while jumping on 6 August 1945." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/555th_Parachute_Infantry_Battalion_%28United_States%29 The 555th is real, they did do the missions claimed. The arrived on the NW Coast in May of '45, stayed till the went east (late '46? iirc ) to be assigned to the 82nd eventually ('47). Having met and spoken with many vets of that unit, as well as read the AAR's, and watched the various training and documentary films. I am pretty confident it is true. Matt The old article I have has NOT been cleaned up and there is NO way to retrive it in the world of the internet. I have the paper copy I made when it was first called to my attention in March of 2000, Anyone wanting a detailed copy of this will have to give me an address and I will mail copies of it. One of the name mentioned in the later part of the article is General William C. Westmoreland. In February 1946 after 2 months of NO supervision and watching friends leave for home the 555th was relieved for attachment to the 13th Airborn Div. and attached to the 82nd Airborn. It retained its own authority to discipline and manage its own personnel matters. Now to answer your question about Duane Weber. Duane had curly hair and a dark complexion - and could easily have passed as part white and part black. One of the things that made it difficult when he was growing up....how dark he got with sun exposure and the curly hair and the dark dark eyes. The heritage was German. I am enclosing a photo of a man who resembled Duane very much. He was a friend of Duane's and last I knew was 100 yrs old....this man is black, but appears more white. The two men even resemble each other. Co-incidence probably. Duane also played the trumpet...but this is NOT a picture of Weber. Well, I can't find it. I had computer problems and hope the guy did not remove those files. Will try later.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #32994 July 7, 2012 Quote Quote Is this what you are talking about? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_balloon Yes. No! Same subject but completely different. The one I have seems to be a 1st hand account written on : THE DROP ZONE Virtual Museum Probably a site put up and then later removed. I believe perhaps some the information in this 2 part story may have been a little more the US government wanted the general public to be aware of. I only found a copy of part 2, but maybe I will run into Part 1 later. In fact when I was trying to find more about this is when I discover the DZ as we know it today. Several yrs later. I found another correspondence dated 3/16/2000 and maybe what led me to the articles I found. The site was historian@thedropzone.org (Patrick O-Donnell).Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #32995 July 7, 2012 You're not answering the direct question. Are you saying Duane faked his race, like he faked an identity, and served with the 555th? Received training in any way from them? Be CLEAR, no hints, teases, or baits, clear provable truth, only. Your part regarding GEN Westmoreland makes no sense to me. MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #32996 July 7, 2012 Other prisoner with names same as other suspects and individuals known to Weber - not sure these name mean anything, but I wrote them down and the prison number just encase they might be connected to Duane and his actions after being released from Canon City in 1962. Charles Wilson Coffelt 26757 John Collins 36357 James Brown 33502 James B. Brown 39203 James B. Brown 29729 James Roach 30382 Albert Ross 38201 Albert Ross 33211 Arnold Ross 30160 I don't know why I wrote these down, but obviously because the names had connections to Weber. Ross was the married name of a woman Duane spent time with. Brown - was the name of a man connected to Coffelt (a Cooper suspect. Of Course the Coffelt - was to enquire if that was the Coffelt who was claimed he was Cooper. This is available in the Colorada State Archives. Trivial information - but I investigated any way I could find.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #32997 July 7, 2012 The former Camp Sibert Training facility was established in the spring of 1942 and was used for basic military training and for training in the use of chemical weapons, decontanmination procedures and smoke operations until early 1945. Duane during his short stay in the army was attached to the CW - CHEMICAL WARFARE. Does NOT one of you see how this links. Duane is kicked out of the Army while the FAMILY is legally trying to get the BAD Conduct Charge off of his Navy record. The incident was off base and in a bar. At any rate he wanted to be in the war effort so bad he some how got into the Army - until he was found out and then discharged as an Undesirable. Work was not available for someone with that kind of record. They were scorned and no one would hire them. He then uses Crime as a mean to survive. He is caught and then violates the parole and sent to McNeil. (I also have some article on McNeil no one is aware of which I will post later). But, for some reason Duane is never placed into the population of McNeil according to the family. The FBI on more than on occassion stated Duane was never in McNeil and yet Carr claimed McNeil as the source of the prints. The Fire Bomb thing is in WA and his uncle helped develope chemical warfar in WW1 and was called back in WW2 around the same time as the Balloon Bombs. I know this makes no sense to anyone but me...but it is there. Why did the FBI conceal the McNeil Record until I called them on it - especially when Carr claimed it the source of Weber's prints!!!!!!!!!!!! And prior FBI had said Duane was never in McNeil. Was he or wasn't he...the record I have states he was...and the family records state he was place into a special program with the assistance of family members or relative in the WA and OR area.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Robert99 60 #32998 July 8, 2012 Quote Quote Quote Is this what you are talking about? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_balloon Yes. No! Same subject but completely different. The one I have seems to be a 1st hand account written on : THE DROP ZONE Virtual Museum Probably a site put up and then later removed. I believe perhaps some the information in this 2 part story may have been a little more the US government wanted the general public to be aware of. I only found a copy of part 2, but maybe I will run into Part 1 later. In fact when I was trying to find more about this is when I discover the DZ as we know it today. Several yrs later. I found another correspondence dated 3/16/2000 and maybe what led me to the articles I found. The site was historian@thedropzone.org (Patrick O-Donnell). Jo, the article cited by Mrshutter is on the balloon bombs that the Japanese developed in response to Doolittle's raid on Japan. The bombs that were discovered were found from the west coast (CA, OR, WA, AK, and Canada) to midwestern locations in the USA. This is the only balloon bomb program that involved the USA during WW2. You are apparently getting different stories mixed up with each other. Robert99 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #32999 July 8, 2012 Quote Quote Quote Quote Is this what you are talking about? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_balloon Yes. No! Same subject but completely different. The one I have seems to be a 1st hand account written on : THE DROP ZONE Virtual Museum Probably a site put up and then later removed. I believe perhaps some the information in this 2 part story may have been a little more the US government wanted the general public to be aware of. I only found a copy of part 2, but maybe I will run into Part 1 later. In fact when I was trying to find more about this is when I discover the DZ as we know it today. Several yrs later. I found another correspondence dated 3/16/2000 and maybe what led me to the articles I found. The site was historian@thedropzone.org (Patrick O-Donnell). Jo, the article cited by Mrshutter is on the balloon bombs that the Japanese developed in response to Doolittle's raid on Japan. The bombs that were discovered were found from the west coast (CA, OR, WA, AK, and Canada) to midwestern locations in the USA. This is the only balloon bomb program that involved the USA during WW2. You are apparently getting different stories mixed up with each other. Robert99 As well as trying to force connections to things that are not connected or even related. MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #33000 July 8, 2012 Quote As well as trying to force connections to things that are not connected or even related. Matt NOT forcing things not connected. Information dated 3/25/2000 McNeil - Stilicoon Prison: The black smokejumpers trained near Portland Or and did not go to Pendleton until later. Stilicoon used prisoner for road work and forestry work. May of 1945 right after Duane was placed on parole - the inlisted them to help the firefighters - which were at that time Not called the Triple Nickles on a classified misss. The battalion left Camp HACKELL for Oregon. Sept. 1944 protland Or dateline headed "Firefighter use Parachutes" The story reported that "Crew have been dropped by parachute to fight man areas of the Northwest". A blistering summer sun indirectly caused fire in six areas in the last 48 hours. An eight man unit crew was dropped to fight a blaze in the Lost Hors Country of Idaho. Other Parchutist were in the back woods of Chelan National Forest a 300 acre fire. A strand object on the ground form the air proved to be a Japanese bomb that had traveled across the Pacific on Hydrogen-filled ballons. It woud remain a TIGHTLY guarded secret for a time. Nov 44 fear of these balloon contained chemical-biological warfare devices. (Remember Duane was on CW RGNT in the army training). The 555 Parachute infantry battalion had acquired the neck name "Smoke Jumpers". The WA. OR project became knnown as "Operation Firefly", and these team rushed to forest fires and areas where there were suspected Japanese Bombs. FIREFIGHING was entriely a new experince for them. Most of these jumpers had been trained at Ft Benning and were BLACK. This was in a book about Stilicoon Prison (McNeil) The Pensacola Library acquired for me on loan. I could not remove it from the library. What is the chance that with what Duane told me about Ft. Benning that he did NOT know some of these guys and with his Uncle being connected to CW and his short connection to CW that he did not become part of a ground crew...provided by the prison to assist them. Since the Bonneville facility house some prisoners who worked the forestry - remember Duane was very familiar with the facility and spoke as though he had stayed there - (the people in Washougal told me there was always something going on there and the locals never knew what it was). I spoke to several individuals in the area and all told me the same thing.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites