DB Cooper

[Robert99 55]

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Thanks Robert.

Am I right to assume that some of the technology wasn't available or as good in '71, so it would have been even less wise then to fly in moderate rain?

That is correct. Weather radar for general aviation is now much better, and if I understand correctly, weather radar information from the National Weather Service can now be displayed on the instruments of even bottom-of-the-line general aviation aircraft that have "glass cockpits".

The main concern is what lies ahead of you. If you can't see some distance ahead visually or by means of radar, you don't know what you are getting into. You need to truly understand aviation weather, and not just what the weatherman told you, and avoid areas of convection that could lead to such things as thunderstorms. Of course, it goes without saying that flying into embedded thunderstorms is an absolute no-no.

[Hominid 0]

I want to address the lack of hail in any of the lore about hijack night. First, though, note that any "witness" henceforth remembering the hail that came down in the horrible weather that night did not remember it until someone pointed out the following. In other words, such account will be null and void.

I think that alternate up/down drafts is no longer considered necessary for hail formation. The up and down typically occurs in circulation in those tall, black cumulonimbus clouds. Storm clouds. Associated with thunderstorms. Lightning. Thunder. Heavy rain. Actual bad weather. Lack of hail in stories about horrible weather is part of the evidence against existence of that horrible weather. Anyone henceforth remembering the hail that night is obviously a liar.

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If I am correct, hail requires up and down drafts.
Each shell on the hail ball corresponds to an up/
down cycle. Since there are no reports of hail this
may imply something about up vs down drafting
in the region of the case from SEA to PDX, from
10k feet to the ground, because very likely Cooper
was gone by PDX.

[Hominid 0]

Hey Blevins,

I believe the cases thing 'cause someone was obviously taking your picture while you were shooting. Either that or you have a cyclops eye. Looks a little odd with the sights lined up with your forehead.

[georger 258]

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The person posting as Georger over at the Realm article has vanished. Or at least the comment did. Not too big a deal, I just figured people would like to know when others use their DZ name, or username anyway, to make posts about Cooper elsewhere on the internet from the DZ thread. Especially when those comments get disgusting. If it was me, I would want to know this was happening.

Play it again, Blevins.

We didnt get it the first 30 times.

Its your problemo -

LOL...

MY 'problemo'?

Not really. I wasn't the one having their Dropzone ID used to make multiple phony posts (and pretty ugly ones) credited to me. That would be YOU, Bob Knoss, a few others. There was one attempt, which I squashed pretty quickly. This is one advantage I have by posting up under a REAL identity. Being made a fool of publicly on a published article, and then calling it someone else's problem...well, I don't think I will comment any further on that.

Remember, your first incarnation of this accused me
of "being" that person; and posting nasty stuff
about you? Was pretty funny for me sitting here
since I didnt even have a url to the site!

It then took six months to get you to admit maybe
it wasnt me, since it turned out it wasnt others here
posting there, either. Now the plot thickens. Now
here you are at it again, knowing it has nothing to
do with me, but you are still pumping away trying to
get blood out of a stone, claiming I should be
concerned for some reason. What's next -
werewolves?

Im glad we are finally having productive dialogue.

[skyjack71 0]

Whew! Guys - MOVE on. I have just read several pages of bickering that exceeds any bar room brawl I have ever read about - you guys just haven't pulled actual weapons out, yet!


1. If someone uses a 1972 Map to plat the flight pattern they are doing the wrong thing. Surely we have an old 727 certified pilot in the DZ we can recruite to verify what I have just said.

2. Gus, where are you? You were a 727 certified pilot in the 70's not sure if you were certified in 1971 but, I know you had to pick up maps before flights.

3. There was a penalty for pilots flying without current maps as they changed very often. They were notified when the maps where available and they had better have them before boarding their flight.

4. Surely there are some old 727 pilots who will verify what I am trying to say. Not sure if I am using the correct terminology - like certified.

5. Most of the 727 pilots of 1971 are deceased, but I hope someone out there will come to my defense on this or prove with the actual dated rules and regulations. I do know the co-pilot claimed to still have his flight maps used on the flight.

6. Using a 1972 map for a 1971 flight gets a little tricky doesn't it? If flight maps have beginning and expirations date then I "might" be wrong, but from what I was told before - I am NOT!

7. The money find needs to be ignored in this projected flight path. Using the co-ordinates of the plane and the 1971 maps the flight is NOT West of Portland....as some have tried to
"sell" the public on. FACT VERSUS MYTHS! That is what this thread is about - so get to work.

8. Do you guys want this to remain the only unsolved skyjacking or get your hands dirty? Stop using words and go to the source - find the maps required by the airline industry used on the Nov. of 1971. It comes down to PUT up or SHUT up.

9. Stop using data that has been proven to be wrong...such as hear-say reports of the weather on Nov, 24, 1971. Do what Homid has done and make REAL contributions to resolve the issues.


P.S. I received some strange information on this end I do not understand. Could be someone probagating a story or trying to stir the pot. Until I know the source and have more information this is all I will say.

I also got a message from Geoffry recently out of the Blue. Been wondering what he was up to. Just said he would contact me later.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[Robert99 55]

Jo, Calm down. A copy of the 1971 Low Altitude IFR Chart effective the day of the hijacking can be viewed on Sluggo's web page. The NWA flight crew was probably using the Jeppesen version of this chart.

[mrshutter45 21]

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Georger asks:

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'Who went public, first? How did this get out to the public? Why did Blevins start literally "howling" about it after the fact, as if it was his case when he had no prior connection to it whatever ?

Its bizarre.

It seems obvious Marla knew it was being
investigated for at least a year or two prior to the
FBI having it, and she said nothing to the press ?

Maybe one of the investigators leaked it first -'

It was Marla, via her Facebook page, the first week of August, 2011. I have the screenshot images. If you do a search on this thread using her name, you will find those images. I presented them months ago, and sent copies to 377.

If you want to see them, I will have to do it via the main office computer tomorrow. Until then, there's always the cartoons....

This video will answer some questions you had Robert about Grannies house, it also confirms my facts of the birth of Lynn D Cooper of 1933 vs 1931, this now makes him 38 in 1971, IMO since she was so wanting to be involved with Veterans like she said in the past, maybe she should fix the head stone on her Uncles grave that she cried about and missed so much!

http://www.clipsyndicate.com/video/play/2864291/a_d_b_cooper_connection_in_sisters_ore

I know it's old news now, but I put alot of time into checking her story

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[BobKnoss 0]

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I know it's old news now, but I put alot of time into checking her story

You must have too much time on your hands. What a waste. I could have let you know ahead of time, Huckleberry. There are over 2000 kooks like her out there with similar fables to spin for a buck or a picture in the paper. BTK: "How many people do I have to kill to get my name in the paper?" Preemption: (BTK was not Bob T. Knoss)

[smokin99 0]

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We finally determined that the comments were made by only two or three people from DZ and that these people just made multiple comments using different usernames. Due to the short length of time between the posting of the link, and the appearance of the comments (a few minutes) there was no doubt they were being made by people who post to this thread.

#1. How did you determine that 2 or 3 people from DZ made comments on another site using other folk's dropzone names? I mean did you actually trackback using user info from the posted comment?

#2. "No Doubt" - Conclusive words if the only way you "know" they are from dropzone is the amount of time between the link and the posts. Not saying its not true or possible - just that if this is what you are basing your conclusion on - it's not conclusive at all. I dare say that there are people following this forum that have never posted on here. Then there are google alerts that people subscribe to whenever there is something new posted about a particular subject.

So really it could have been anyone. I tend to ignore this inane stuff, but, don't get me wrong - Internet civility has to start somewhere, and I DO appreciate your letting folks know that someone is posting stupid remarks under another's name.

But, unless you know the culprit is a regular DZ poster, based on the editor tracking back the comments, I, for one, would like to think that the regular posters on here are above these sort of juvenile pranks.

On the other hand -- if it is true and verifiable that someone on here is co-opting other user names to make vulgar comments on other sites, then perhaps they should be reported to the Dropzone staff/moderators.
Maybe Dropzone will disapprove of this practice enough to at least ban them from posting here and/or terminate their membership. Of course if you don't have to register to read forum posts there's not a whole lot they can do about that.

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[mrshutter45 21]

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I know it's old news now, but I put alot of time into checking her story

You must have too much time on your hands. What a waste. I could have let you know ahead of time, Huckleberry. There are over 2000 kooks like her out there with similar fables to spin for a buck or a picture in the paper. BTK: "How many people do I have to kill to get my name in the paper?" Preemption: (BTK was not Bob T. Knoss)

possibly! and this makes your "kooky" story #2001!

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[smokin99 0]

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This video will answer some questions you had Robert about Grannies house, it also confirms my facts of the birth of Lynn D Cooper of 1933 vs 1931, this now makes him 38 in 1971, IMO since she was so wanting to be involved with Veterans like she said in the past, maybe she should fix the head stone on her Uncles grave that she cried about and missed so much!

http://www.clipsyndicate.com/video/play/2864291/a_d_b_cooper_connection_in_sisters_ore

I know it's old news now, but I put alot of time into checking her story

The last woman on the video said it best. To paraphrase..."I don't doubt that she's probably remembering them being involved in something - whether or not it was this (DB) though.... I need a little more more hard evidence"

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[mrshutter45 21]

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This video will answer some questions you had Robert about Grannies house, it also confirms my facts of the birth of Lynn D Cooper of 1933 vs 1931, this now makes him 38 in 1971, IMO since she was so wanting to be involved with Veterans like she said in the past, maybe she should fix the head stone on her Uncles grave that she cried about and missed so much!

http://www.clipsyndicate.com/video/play/2864291/a_d_b_cooper_connection_in_sisters_ore

I know it's old news now, but I put alot of time into checking her story

The last women on the video said it best. To paraphrase..."I don't doubt that she's probably remembering them being involved in something - whether or not it was this (DB) though.... I need a little more more hard evidence"

yep! I was hoping while watching the video and the dates were popping up that someone would have caught the birth issue! but they didn't

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[skyjack71 0]

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Jo, Calm down. A copy of the 1971 Low Altitude IFR Chart effective the day of the hijacking can be viewed on Sluggo's web page. The NWA flight crew was probably using the Jeppesen version of this chart.

They stated they used another map - when Sluggo was there. 1972 - what this map showed was the name of a designation that was the same as the one on the old maps. It was a map marking designation...but showed this to be further N or S than then old map. They used this to alter the projected flight path making it go West of Portland instead of EAST of Portland. This new flight path map they created then put the flight West of Portland. WRONG!. It also caused the flight path itself to shift. Shift it back like the map used by the Pilots and it puts the plane East of Vancover and over if NOT East of Troutdale Air Strip.

The night of the skyjacking the reports of the flight coming between the Camas and Vancouver area - predominated.
The co-pilot at the control also said this.

Take the ALTERED map put out by someone on this thread. They ticked out the minutes and the designations using the ALTERED newer map indicating a certain points on the map were in different locations than the indicated route. NOT TRUE.

In other words they show a turn to the East as being West of Heisson - NOT TRUE. That plane went almost directly over Heisson. 4 people saw this and only one is left alive. Another woman just north of there heard the same thing. Shift the curve back the way it was supposed to be per the old maps and the Eastwardly curve of the plane fits the story told to me by the co-pilot.

They chose a route that kept them from going OVER Portland and went EAST. To stay away from populated areas in the event the plane was blown up. THAT PLANE never went over or WEST of the PDX - it did not enter an area West of PDX until it was past PDX. What happened to the radio communications during this time? ANSWER that and you will know the truth.

Did Communications go silent just before this...and resumed later. DID the plane dropped in altitude North of Battleground area - hoping Cooper would exit. Does the silence in communication occur during this time span. What elevation was claimed - and is it possible the plane dropped elevation briefly during this time frame.

There were people at the Trout airstrip hoping to get a view of the plane. Never heard if they actually did. The plane curved in a westwardly curve after it passed EAST of the PDX - not WEST. This took the plane EAST of heavily populated areas in Portland and then on down the Hwy Corridor.

How many time have you heard that a plane in trouble near mountaineous terain is orderd to stay within in search and rescue accessability (out of the mountains) and out of heavily populated areas...this is all about Lawsuits and loss of life.
It is also about being able to recover evidence - which the authorities would have a difficult time doing in the mountains.

The pilots used common sense and in keeping with anything that would get the skyjacker off their plane.....following rules and regulations went out the window.

This is just an accumulation of things I have learned from different sources in the last 16 yrs. Some of it is just common sense. Obtain the times of NO communications and find the answers yourselves. I can't do this - all I can do is tell you what has been repeated to me in these last 16 yrs...and hope I have not been influenced by the thread or authorities who claim differently.

Remember this - My source are more personal and upfront and I did NOT always understand what that person was saying - but this is as close as I can get.

THIS is WHY I hit the ceiling when someone on this thread tried to prove the plane was WEST of Portland - NOT TRUE!.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[BobKnoss 0]

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THIS is WHY I hit the ceiling when someone on this thread tried to prove the plane was WEST of Portland - NOT TRUE!.

Pure BALONEY! HOG WASH! FBI/FAA DISINFORMATION! Confirmed to me from the only one who really knows!!! Confirmed to RALPH by the same guy! Told to his son. Confirmed by Janet. Confirmed by McCoy. Jo, your are up a creek without a paddle! WRONG! WRONG!! It confirms the conspiracy, cockpit colaboration, pre-planning, government involvement, and when you overlay the flight path with the oil pipeline and the flight AROUND Portland like they were ordered, rather than OVER Portland like your version ends up..... WAKE UP! you've been duped bigtime! Or, are you the SUPER-DUPER-POOPER-COOPER-DUP-POR?

[georger 258]

There were people at the Trout airstrip hoping to get a view of the plane. Never heard if they actually did.

Who are these people ?

Name them. You cant! You cant because its only
gossip you received and never was anything more
than gossip you received. Its all very old gossip, in
any event. This is so old it might as well be 'Noah
and the Ark in Washington' - its that silly, literally.

Your statement above is either a complete
fabrication on your part. Or very old gossip you
are now revisiting and posting. Because I think
I know exactly where you got this and from whom
and I think I know why you are posting it now.

Oh! and by the way, it is Troutdale not "Trout".
And not "Crappie" either...

This is a crystal-clear example of how Jo Weber
makes things up from gossip she has received.

Moreover, if her version above is true, which it isnt,
it would revise her previous accounts of where Duane
bailed and got 'out of the woods', as supplied by
hints & clues from Duane, during their trip to WA,
Jo says ...

Name these people "at the Trout airstrip" you cite
above! Any name will do.

I want to know if they match any of the names on
my list, that we on the Science Team interviewed!

Thanks!

G.

(I guess Jo is considering whether to respond or not.
Its been a while and still no response. She either
has the names or she is blowing smoke ...)

[Jo I will settle for just one name ... any name!]

[Robert99 55]

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Jo, Calm down. A copy of the 1971 Low Altitude IFR Chart effective the day of the hijacking can be viewed on Sluggo's web page. The NWA flight crew was probably using the Jeppesen version of this chart.

They stated they used another map - when Sluggo was there. 1972 - what this map showed was the name of a designation that was the same as the one on the old maps. It was a map marking designation...but showed this to be further N or S than then old map. They used this to alter the projected flight path making it go West of Portland instead of EAST of Portland. This new flight path map they created then put the flight West of Portland. WRONG!. It also caused the flight path itself to shift. Shift it back like the map used by the Pilots and it puts the plane East of Vancover and over if NOT East of Troutdale Air Strip.

Jo, Here we go again!

The map I mentioned above, or the Jeppesen version of it, is the map that the flight crew used between Portland and Seattle that afternoon and the one they used on the flight south that evening. There are no ifs, ands, or buts about this. It was MANDATORY that the flight crew use that map because they were flying under IFR conditions.

When the airliner turned at Mayfield Intersection (now Malay Intersection) to track directly to the PDX VORTAC (now known as the BTG VORTAC) they were already well west of Portland. For them to fly around Portland on the east side simply does not make sense. It would have added about 15 miles to their flight path and they could not have been at a point they stated they were at south of Portland at the stated time if they had gone east of Portland.

In the radio transcripts while on the ground in Seattle, the crew discussed the maps and approach plates they had asked Al Lee to get for them. The navigational and approach information they were provided, in the same box with the meals Cooper had requested, was all FAA approved information and supplemental to the maps and approach plates they already had on the airliner.

Since the airliner was above an overcast as it passed through the Portland area, the flight crew could not see the ground to navigate visually. So they used exactly the same map, or its Jeppesen equivalent, that is now posted on Sluggo's web page.

There is no way to get around the above. The airliner was NEVER east of Portland!

[georger 258]

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Jo, Calm down. A copy of the 1971 Low Altitude IFR Chart effective the day of the hijacking can be viewed on Sluggo's web page. The NWA flight crew was probably using the Jeppesen version of this chart.

They stated they used another map - when Sluggo was there. 1972 - what this map showed was the name of a designation that was the same as the one on the old maps. It was a map marking designation...but showed this to be further N or S than then old map. They used this to alter the projected flight path making it go West of Portland instead of EAST of Portland. This new flight path map they created then put the flight West of Portland. WRONG!. It also caused the flight path itself to shift. Shift it back like the map used by the Pilots and it puts the plane East of Vancover and over if NOT East of Troutdale Air Strip.

Jo, Here we go again!

The map I mentioned above, or the Jeppesen version of it, is the map that the flight crew used between Portland and Seattle that afternoon and the one they used on the flight south that evening. There are no ifs, ands, or buts about this. It was MANDATORY that the flight crew use that map because they were flying under IFR conditions.

When the airliner turned at Mayfield Intersection (now Malay Intersection) to track directly to the PDX VORTAC (now known as the BTG VORTAC) they were already well west of Portland. For them to fly around Portland on the east side simply does not make sense. It would have added about 15 miles to their flight path and they could not have been at a point they stated they were at south of Portland at the stated time if they had gone east of Portland.

In the radio transcripts while on the ground in Seattle, the crew discussed the maps and approach plates they had asked Al Lee to get for them. The navigational and approach information they were provided, in the same box with the meals Cooper had requested, was all FAA approved information and supplemental to the maps and approach plates they already had on the airliner.

Since the airliner was above an overcast as it passed through the Portland area, the flight crew could not see the ground to navigate visually. So they used exactly the same map, or its Jeppesen equivalent, that is now posted on Sluggo's web page.

There is no way to get around the above. The airliner was NEVER east of Portland!

And in addition to that, everyone interviewed at
the Troutdale airport said flight 305 "did not" pass
over here "or we would have known about it".

Every official associated with Troutdale and at the
airport on the day of the hijacking or later, was very
firm that Flight #305 did not pass over their airport.

Two said they 'knew' the airplane (305) passed west
of here, close to Portland. The FBI was never at
the Troutdale airport or contacted the Troutdale
airport in connection with the hijacking.

This had to be checked out because (1) Jerry
Thomas was contending Ralph and Rataczak
said, 'the plane crossed the Columbia at the
Troutdale airport', and (2) because of the report
Washougal, of a Washougal Washdown Theory
mentioned by Palmer and others. In addition, one
FBI agent involved in the excavation at Tina's Bar
said he was operating under the assumption and
had been told flight 305 passed over the Troutdale
airport, and the money at Tina Bar had come down
the Columbia from the Washougal River.

The people at Troutdale were very firm in their
interviews, however. That flight 305 had NOT passed
over their airport on the night of the hijacking. In
fact one official asked me during one phone
conversation: "Who is peddling that story. We never
heard this before? Its common knowledge the flight
passed at PDX." I gave the name "Jerry Thomas".
The official responded, "I never heard of him before
and he is wrong".

There is a standing rumor that 'people at the
Troutdale airport were gathered to watch 305 go by'.
We could find no corroboration for that rumor and
several officials associated with the airport told us
it never happened, to their knowledge. One
characterised the idea as laughable.

That rumor may have been spawned by a reporter
in Washington, who is known to have had many
conversations with Jo Weber. That rumor may be
the rumor Jo Weber is now citing?

Why would Jo Weber surface with this right now?

[airtwardo 7]

#1. How did you determine that 2 or 3 people from DZ made comments on another site using other folk's dropzone names? I mean did you actually trackback using user info from the posted comment?

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He said 'we' not I...I took it to mean that who ever was in charge of the forum he's discussing did a simple ISP trace. If several of the screen-names used came back to the same ISP ID, you have some pretty solid evidence.

Checks like that are done on THIS site from time to time...if you're using more than one active screen name, you will be told to close all but one.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[smokin99 0]

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#1. How did you determine that 2 or 3 people from DZ made comments on another site using other folk's dropzone names? I mean did you actually trackback using user info from the posted comment?

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He said 'we' not I...I took it to mean that who ever was in charge of the forum he's discussing did a simple ISP trace. If several of the screen-names used came back to the same ISP ID, you have some pretty solid evidence.

Checks like that are done on THIS site from time to time...if you're using more than one active screen name, you will be told to close all but one.

Yeah - I meant the royal you as in "you guys". Sorry - Should've been more specific i guess.

Robert Blevins said:
We finally determined that the comments were made by only two or three people from DZ and that these people just made multiple comments using different usernames. Due to the short length of time between the posting of the link, and the appearance of the comments (a few minutes) there was no doubt they were being made by people who post to this thread. Whether or not they were using their OWN usernames is impossible to determine, but the commenters undoubtably came from Dropzone.


Initially I also took his post to mean that a trackback or trace was done -- but then Robert followed that up with the statement that there was no doubt it came from someone here because of the timing.

So just wondering which is it?

Because even if the comments on the article were traced back to the same ISP - was that ISP matched up to the ISP of someone posting here?

That is why I requested clarification. No big deal - just if you're gonna say that there is no doubt that the comments are from people here - it would be interesting to know how that was arrived at.

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[smokin99 0]

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Good question, but I don't really know. The editor only said he removed the comments and went on to say that he determined (somehow) that nine or ten comments were made by two or three different people. He didn't tell me how he arrived at this conclusion. Besides, you could sort of tell anyway. There was similar language and syntax in some of the comments, even though different DZ names were used. Who knows? All it really told me was that at least a couple of people around here have issues.

The reason I brought all of this up was simple. It happened then. It's happened since. If it happens again, I will reprint the comments and the names, if the poster clones a DZ username. Then the DZ user can be made aware of his/her comment and either disclaim it, or if they wish...admit they said it.

I believe people should be held to what they say. Trust me...people hold me to what I say all the time.

I don't think it's any big deal today. The only reason I objected was because of the untrue references to KC.

Hey I appreciate your efforts. I agree with you that there is no excuse for someone "cloning" another's user name to make nasty comments on another site.

My only point was that , if the timing is the reason you came to that conclusion, there are probably a lot of lurkers that don't post to the forum so it could have been anyone.
I'd like to think that remarks like that are not attributable to the folks that post here - no matter how we might disagree among ourselves - that is stooping to a new low. But I still believe in Santa Claus too...so who knows.

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[smokin99 0]

Well all the pundits were dissing Madonna because of her age. (Did they do that in past years with all the geriatric male bands/acts?...hmmmm)
Oh well - My favorite half time shows in past years were Prince, Petty, and Springsteen, so I was expecting not to like her but Me thinks the ol broad pulled it off.

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[Amazon 7]

Do you ever wonder if those who participated in the mkultra thing are still partaking

[smokin99 0]

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Do you ever wonder if those who participated in the mkultra thing are still partaking

LOL...maybe they don't have to. I remember in school how they'd scare you with the films about having lifetime flashbacks. We all imagined that if we took LSD, years later we'd all of a sudden get an incredible urge to find a balcony to jump off of -- sans parachute - sure that we could fly.

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[JerryThomas 0]

The team that won the supper Bowl was very lucky. So was I. I won 8'000 dollars on this game. I guess maybe I should bet on who the real DB Cooper is. Guess what unless the suspect meets the criteria that Vicki's father does ,there is No way any candidate could be Cooper. Anyone want to Bet. Jerry

[skyjack71 0]

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Jo, Calm down. A copy of the 1971 Low Altitude IFR Chart effective the day of the hijacking can be viewed on Sluggo's web page. The NWA flight crew was probably using the Jeppesen version of this chart.

They stated they used another map - when Sluggo was there. 1972 - what this map showed was the name of a designation that was the same as the one on the old maps. It was a map marking designation...but showed this to be further N or S than then old map. They used this to alter the projected flight path making it go West of Portland instead of EAST of Portland. This new flight path map they created then put the flight West of Portland. WRONG!. It also caused the flight path itself to shift. Shift it back like the map used by the Pilots and it puts the plane East of Vancover and over if NOT East of Troutdale Air Strip.

Jo, Here we go again!

The map I mentioned above, or the Jeppesen version of it, is the map that the flight crew used between Portland and Seattle that afternoon and the one they used on the flight south that evening. There are no ifs, ands, or buts about this. It was MANDATORY that the flight crew use that map because they were flying under IFR conditions.

When the airliner turned at Mayfield Intersection (now Malay Intersection) to track directly to the PDX VORTAC (now known as the BTG VORTAC) they were already well west of Portland. For them to fly around Portland on the east side simply does not make sense. It would have added about 15 miles to their flight path and they could not have been at a point they stated they were at south of Portland at the stated time if they had gone east of Portland.

In the radio transcripts while on the ground in Seattle, the crew discussed the maps and approach plates they had asked Al Lee to get for them. The navigational and approach information they were provided, in the same box with the meals Cooper had requested, was all FAA approved information and supplemental to the maps and approach plates they already had on the airliner.

Since the airliner was above an overcast as it passed through the Portland area, the flight crew could not see the ground to navigate visually. So they used exactly the same map, or its Jeppesen equivalent, that is now posted on Sluggo's web page.

There is no way to get around the above. The airliner was NEVER east of Portland!

NO, NO you were not there. NOTE that Sluggo also changed the time lines - moving the time lines was NOT the right thing to do. I watched this map platting change over the yrs. The word of those on the plane must mean something. Yet a group of Geeks can change the time line which changed the location of the plane at those given time.
Try it - back up the time line and you get the route I have told you about. Check all of the sitings of the plane - they ARE NOT West of Portland.

Someone use some common sense - follow the sitings and read the old news papers - the siting are to the East not to the West.

Things like this are WHY the crime has NOT been solved.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber