377 22
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Farflung 0
So much to analyze, so little logic, spread across so much time.
OK, after 40 years and endless brag speak about skydiving skills with license numbers and years in sport the ‘serial number’ code of 9/57 has been demystified as a date??!! That’s amazing since this is a well know format to every part of the planet (even undiscovered tribes in the Amazonian Jungle) except for those who participate on this thread. More noteworthy considering the number of Columbia River dredge operations experts who opined. I guess all those wasted years staring at your own rig or data card with an alpha-numeric serial number paid no dividends since this was a Pioneer brand which may have only produced 9/57 total units I suppose.
Sure was lucky the favored battle cry of ‘This Has Already Been Discussed’ wasn’t rolled out before Bruce was able to complete his research. Gosh, I wonder who has complained (over and over) about something being resolved because it has already been a worn out subject? Will this crime have multiple confessors (even though both possible and accurate in this situation)? Nope, not a one.
Matters not since this only fortifies the fact that Cooper was a Black Ops, CIA trained Master Rigger and jumper since this has utterly confused so many people in the know. I thought that 9/57 was a serial number due to my experience with four character serial numbers so common that I don’t have time to list any as an example nor do I have time to read any contrary comments. I’m that busy and important.
http://www.vh1.com/video/squirrel-nut-zippers/10096/hell.jhtml
OK, after 40 years and endless brag speak about skydiving skills with license numbers and years in sport the ‘serial number’ code of 9/57 has been demystified as a date??!! That’s amazing since this is a well know format to every part of the planet (even undiscovered tribes in the Amazonian Jungle) except for those who participate on this thread. More noteworthy considering the number of Columbia River dredge operations experts who opined. I guess all those wasted years staring at your own rig or data card with an alpha-numeric serial number paid no dividends since this was a Pioneer brand which may have only produced 9/57 total units I suppose.
Sure was lucky the favored battle cry of ‘This Has Already Been Discussed’ wasn’t rolled out before Bruce was able to complete his research. Gosh, I wonder who has complained (over and over) about something being resolved because it has already been a worn out subject? Will this crime have multiple confessors (even though both possible and accurate in this situation)? Nope, not a one.
Matters not since this only fortifies the fact that Cooper was a Black Ops, CIA trained Master Rigger and jumper since this has utterly confused so many people in the know. I thought that 9/57 was a serial number due to my experience with four character serial numbers so common that I don’t have time to list any as an example nor do I have time to read any contrary comments. I’m that busy and important.
http://www.vh1.com/video/squirrel-nut-zippers/10096/hell.jhtml
Orange1 0
Didn't they try get chutes from McCord first? I seem to recall Cossey was a second option ?
Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.
georger 264
QuoteDidn't they try get chutes from McCord first? I seem to recall Cossey was a second option ?
Yes.
NORAD cancelled it. It was a civilian matter. They
had to scramble to get chutes elsewhere; at least
thats the story.
How do I know? A little bird named Chief Flung
Antler told me.
QuoteHe was dumb enough to come to the Flight 305 party dressed in a thin suit and crappy shoes.
I do believe in Occam, BTW and I don't think the hijacker exhibited behaviors that would lead any sensible person to think he was either Black Ops or an expert skydiver. Maybe someone with experience long ago, or just enough knowledge to be dangerous.
But once in a while, people do get lucky, and maybe this is the real answer to the Cooper case. Maybe he just got lucky for once in his life. That doesn't necessarily mean the suspect I favor. Could be anyone. In fact, chances (my own opinion) are that if the skyjacker had been anyone except a Joe Ordinary type his true identity would have been discovered by now.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
Isnt there a reference somewhere to "trouble getting
the chutes" ? In the Transcripts - havent looked ?
Tosaw and Sluggo identified one (serie) of calls that
were made? Maybe there were several calls, calls
that crossed without all parties knowing ...?
Multiple calls > multiple chutes. How would the
parties called even know other parties had been
contacted, yet each responded? How would a SAC
writing later even know the full-accurate history;
he wouldnt.
I dont think the FBI was training its people on
parachute types then! (or shovel
manufactirers either).
If all of that adds up to bungling ?????
Cossey has his facts. Hayden has his. SAC has his.
Aunt Mable has hers. All facts may be true, each in
their own histories ? Nobody may be lying? The
whole thing may be the 'whole truth' ?
Quote
I agree.
Robert99 55
Bruce, 377, and All,
For several years prior to early November 1971, I owned an NB-6 backpack emergency parachute. Currently, I own portions of an NB-6 Parachute (harness, container, pilot chute, ripcord). My parachute, and all other NB-6s that I have seen, resembled the parachute in the NB-6 pictures on Sluggo's web page.
It is my understanding that the NB-8 container and harness are similar to the NB-6's container and harness. If that is correct, I can categorially state that the parachute in Bruce's article does not have either an NB-6 or NB-8 container or harness.
In fact, the container and harness demonstrated by Norman Hayden appears to be a hybrid of items from separate parachute systems and which would probably be assembled by a rigger such as Earl Cossey.
If the information on the parachute identification card is correct about it being a 26 foot diameter, ripstop conical canopy, then it is probably the same canopy that would be used in an NB-6. However, from what can be seen about the third ripcord pin stud from the top, the rig does not appear to use the usual NB-6 pilot chute. But the parachute will have to be opened for a determination of the canopy's details, history, etc..
The certification number for Cossey is given as 1579638 which is a number assigned to him by the FAA. However, the certification number of 532424217 given for Wes Jeppsen is actually his Social Security Number. The FAA made an ill-fated effort to use SSN's for their record keeping but that was soon cancelled due to identity theft.
For several years prior to early November 1971, I owned an NB-6 backpack emergency parachute. Currently, I own portions of an NB-6 Parachute (harness, container, pilot chute, ripcord). My parachute, and all other NB-6s that I have seen, resembled the parachute in the NB-6 pictures on Sluggo's web page.
It is my understanding that the NB-8 container and harness are similar to the NB-6's container and harness. If that is correct, I can categorially state that the parachute in Bruce's article does not have either an NB-6 or NB-8 container or harness.
In fact, the container and harness demonstrated by Norman Hayden appears to be a hybrid of items from separate parachute systems and which would probably be assembled by a rigger such as Earl Cossey.
If the information on the parachute identification card is correct about it being a 26 foot diameter, ripstop conical canopy, then it is probably the same canopy that would be used in an NB-6. However, from what can be seen about the third ripcord pin stud from the top, the rig does not appear to use the usual NB-6 pilot chute. But the parachute will have to be opened for a determination of the canopy's details, history, etc..
The certification number for Cossey is given as 1579638 which is a number assigned to him by the FAA. However, the certification number of 532424217 given for Wes Jeppsen is actually his Social Security Number. The FAA made an ill-fated effort to use SSN's for their record keeping but that was soon cancelled due to identity theft.
QuoteBruce, 377, and All,
For several years prior to early November 1971, I owned an NB-6 backpack emergency parachute. Currently, I own portions of an NB-6 Parachute (harness, container, pilot chute, ripcord). My parachute, and all other NB-6s that I have seen, resembled the parachute in the NB-6 pictures on Sluggo's web page.
It is my understanding that the NB-8 container and harness are similar to the NB-6's container and harness. If that is correct, I can categorially state that the parachute in Bruce's article does not have either an NB-6 or NB-8 container or harness.
In fact, the container and harness demonstrated by Norman Hayden appears to be a hybrid of items from separate parachute systems and which would probably be assembled by a rigger such as Earl Cossey.
If the information on the parachute identification card is correct about it being a 26 foot diameter, ripstop conical canopy, then it is probably the same canopy that would be used in an NB-6. However, from what can be seen about the third ripcord pin stud from the top, the rig does not appear to use the usual NB-6 pilot chute. But the parachute will have to be opened for a determination of the canopy's details, history, etc..
The certification number for Cossey is given as 1579638 which is a number assigned to him by the FAA. However, the certification number of 532424217 given for Wes Jeppsen is actually his Social Security Number. The FAA made an ill-fated effort to use SSN's for their record keeping but that was soon cancelled due to identity theft.
Quote
Here's a synopsis of what I have learned, Robert, and a couple questions:
1. Cossey says he gave NWO an NB 8 with a 28-foot military round, sage-green ripstop, etc canopy. Plus a Pioneer of unknown size, with a modified ripcord and an undisclosed canopy inside that has a sleeve. This latter rig is the "not-taken" unit.
2. Hayden's rig that he has possession of is clearly a Pioneer, containing most likely a 26-foot round miitary chute inside. He says he had two identical chutes, so Cooper's rig was a Pioneer with a 26-foot conical also.
So, are you asking if Hayden's Pioneer is also an NB 6, or that he should have an NB 6 if he has the not- taken rig?
Here's where I need to ask a question: Did Pioneer make NB 6s? If it did, would it be called a Pioneer or an NB 6?
The same quesetion goes for NB 8s, too, I suppose. Did Pioneer make NB 8s?
One moniker is a manufacturing name; the other is a military designation. Can both names refer to the same rig?
Conversely, if a NB 6 and a Pioneer alway identify different kinds of harnesses, they could then be stuffed with the same type of canopy, right? So both could have a 26-foot, Steinthals, let's say, or a navy conical, or in the case of NB -8s, C-9s, too.
Not sure what you're asking, Robert, if anything in particular, or just seeking clarity about what we've found and who is saying what, which is why I'm responding.
377 22
The TIGHAR crew comes up with some plausible theories but they lose all credibility when it comes to interpreting physical evidence.
They find some sheet aluminum with rivets. They say it's probably from Earhart's Lockheed. When it's pointed out that the rivet spacing rules it out they cite a repair made to the plane and say this must have been part of the repair patch.
They find a woman's shoe and conclude that it may be Earhart's. Same with some bone fragments.
I think searchers will find her plane on the bottom of the ocean using side scan sonar. The US Navy tasked with finding the missing door from a 747 that suffered explosive decompression outbound from Hawaii, with only an approximate location, found and recovered the door about 80 miles out from Honoulu using side scan sonar. It just takes tedious search patterns but sonar will find her plane eventually.
377
They find some sheet aluminum with rivets. They say it's probably from Earhart's Lockheed. When it's pointed out that the rivet spacing rules it out they cite a repair made to the plane and say this must have been part of the repair patch.
They find a woman's shoe and conclude that it may be Earhart's. Same with some bone fragments.
I think searchers will find her plane on the bottom of the ocean using side scan sonar. The US Navy tasked with finding the missing door from a 747 that suffered explosive decompression outbound from Hawaii, with only an approximate location, found and recovered the door about 80 miles out from Honoulu using side scan sonar. It just takes tedious search patterns but sonar will find her plane eventually.
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
During the hijack why would they?Quote
I can't believe the FBI never talked to Norman Hayden...now that's bungling!!!
hangdiver
It wasnt the FBI trying to get chutes. It was NW and
airport officials. Parachutes was not the FBI's business or mission.
Its clear who called Hayden. Cossey has his version
of who called him. Neither was the FBI.
Who is going to order the FBI to procure parachutes?
(no one)
The FBI doesnt like serving as delivery people.
The agent showed that position after the fact.
People just dont seem to get this...
People want the FBI to do-this, do-that, and have
dinner ready at 5:00PM! Gravy please.
Georger...of course they wouldn't have talked with Hayden on that night...WTF does the I Mean in FBI...????????????????????????????????????
hangdiver
"Mans got to know his limitations"
Harry Callahan
377 22
The rig Hayden showed to Bruce isn't an NB6. It's a commercial not a military container. That's my opinion.
377
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
377 22
It's AMAZINGLY hard to distinguish islands from cloud shadows in certain conditions. I spoke with someone who flew cargo from Hawaii to some obscure islands a few hundred miles away. He said sometimes he was 100% certain he was looking at an island and as they approached it would turn out to be a shadow.
Earhart probably ran out of fuel chasing shadows. She was an incompetent radio operator and screwed up a few opportunities for the Itasca to get DF bearings on her.
My guess is that they'll find the plane as soon as someone wants to spend about 30 million on a methodical sonar mapping search in the area where she is believed to have crashed.
The fanciful stories of her surviving the crash and being killed by the Japanese as s spy are absurd.
377
Earhart probably ran out of fuel chasing shadows. She was an incompetent radio operator and screwed up a few opportunities for the Itasca to get DF bearings on her.
My guess is that they'll find the plane as soon as someone wants to spend about 30 million on a methodical sonar mapping search in the area where she is believed to have crashed.
The fanciful stories of her surviving the crash and being killed by the Japanese as s spy are absurd.
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
Robert99 55
Quote377 writes:
They find some sheet aluminum with rivets. They say it's probably from Earhart's Lockheed. When it's pointed out that the rivet spacing rules it out they cite a repair made to the plane and say this must have been part of the repair patch.
R99 replies:
Some surviving Lockheed personnel also ruled out the possibility of the sheet aluminum having anything to do with the repairs.
377 writes:
I think searchers will find her plane on the bottom of the ocean using side scan sonar. The US Navy tasked with finding the missing door from a 747 that suffered explosive decompression outbound from Hawaii, with only an approximate location, found and recovered the door about 80 miles out from Honoulu using side scan sonar. It just takes tedious search patterns but sonar will find her plane eventually.
R99 replies:
That 747 door was located several hundred miles from Hawaii. I think it took well over an hour of flying for the airliner to get back to Honolulu.
Are you aware that deep water searchs near Howland Island, using the latest technology, have been made recently for Amelia's aircraft and that more are scheduled for next summer? Do you follow this matter on the various web sites?
georger 264
QuoteThe TIGHAR crew comes up with some plausible theories but they lose all credibility when it comes to interpreting physical evidence.
Could we stick to the subject at hand?
Cooper ?
georger 264
QuoteQuote377 writes:
They find some sheet aluminum with rivets. They say it's probably from Earhart's Lockheed. When it's pointed out that the rivet spacing rules it out they cite a repair made to the plane and say this must have been part of the repair patch.
R99 replies:
Some surviving Lockheed personnel also ruled out the possibility of the sheet aluminum having anything to do with the repairs.
377 writes:
I think searchers will find her plane on the bottom of the ocean using side scan sonar. The US Navy tasked with finding the missing door from a 747 that suffered explosive decompression outbound from Hawaii, with only an approximate location, found and recovered the door about 80 miles out from Honoulu using side scan sonar. It just takes tedious search patterns but sonar will find her plane eventually.
R99 replies:
That 747 door was located several hundred miles from Hawaii. I think it took well over an hour of flying for the airliner to get back to Honolulu.
Are you aware that deep water searchs near Howland Island, using the latest technology, have been made recently for Amelia's aircraft and that more are scheduled for next summer? Do you follow this matter on the various web sites?
How did this slip into the Earhardt thing?
I will wait until its run its course - have at it.
georger 264
Georger...of course they wouldn't have talked with Hayden on that night...WTF does the I Mean in FBI...????????????????????????????????????
hangdiver
hangdiver
And why would the FBI investigate - the parachutes -
especially if they didnt procure them in the first
place. Why would the FBI care? Idont find that
unusual (or unethical).
Robert99 55
QuoteQuoteBruce, 377, and All,
For several years prior to early November 1971, I owned an NB-6 backpack emergency parachute. Currently, I own portions of an NB-6 Parachute (harness, container, pilot chute, ripcord). My parachute, and all other NB-6s that I have seen, resembled the parachute in the NB-6 pictures on Sluggo's web page.
It is my understanding that the NB-8 container and harness are similar to the NB-6's container and harness. If that is correct, I can categorially state that the parachute in Bruce's article does not have either an NB-6 or NB-8 container or harness.
In fact, the container and harness demonstrated by Norman Hayden appears to be a hybrid of items from separate parachute systems and which would probably be assembled by a rigger such as Earl Cossey.
If the information on the parachute identification card is correct about it being a 26 foot diameter, ripstop conical canopy, then it is probably the same canopy that would be used in an NB-6. However, from what can be seen about the third ripcord pin stud from the top, the rig does not appear to use the usual NB-6 pilot chute. But the parachute will have to be opened for a determination of the canopy's details, history, etc..
The certification number for Cossey is given as 1579638 which is a number assigned to him by the FAA. However, the certification number of 532424217 given for Wes Jeppsen is actually his Social Security Number. The FAA made an ill-fated effort to use SSN's for their record keeping but that was soon cancelled due to identity theft.Quote
Here's a synopsis of what I have learned, Robert, and a couple questions:
1. Cossey says he gave NWO an NB 8 with a 28-foot military round, sage-green ripstop, etc canopy. Plus a Pioneer of unknown size, with a modified ripcord and an undisclosed canopy inside that has a sleeve. This latter rig is the "not-taken" unit.
2. Hayden's rig that he has possession of is clearly a Pioneer, containing most likely a 26-foot round miitary chute inside. He says he had two identical chutes, so Cooper's rig was a Pioneer with a 26-foot conical also.
So, are you asking if Hayden's Pioneer is also an NB 6, or that he should have an NB 6 if he has the not- taken rig?
Here's where I need to ask a question: Did Pioneer make NB 6s? If it did, would it be called a Pioneer or an NB 6?
The same quesetion goes for NB 8s, too, I suppose. Did Pioneer make NB 8s?
One moniker is a manufacturing name; the other is a military designation. Can both names refer to the same rig?
Conversely, if a NB 6 and a Pioneer alway identify different kinds of harnesses, they could then be stuffed with the same type of canopy, right? So both could have a 26-foot, Steinthals, let's say, or a navy conical, or in the case of NB -8s, C-9s, too.
Not sure what you're asking, Robert, if anything in particular, or just seeking clarity about what we've found and who is saying what, which is why I'm responding.
Bruce, The NB-6 is a military name and would refer to the same parachute even when manufactured by different companies.
For instance, the Boeing B-17 was made by a number of companies but is never referred to by the other manufacturer's name.
However, there may be some differences in identification numbers to establish who made the specific item.
So if referring to an NB-6 parachute, it might be listed as "NB-6 parachute, manufactured by Pioneer", etc..
For your information Steinthals is listed as the manufacturer of the NB-6 harness that I have.
377 is probably right that the parachute Hayden has is a civilian one. Or perhaps a civilian container and harness with a military canopy. Riggers have considerable leeway in these matters, and some appear to go well beyond that.
QuoteAnd why would the FBI investigate
Gee...I don't know georger...maybe to get some answers.
"Mans got to know his limitations"
Harry Callahan
Farflung 0
That parachute Bruce photographed certainly appears to be very slim (considering it is from the 50’s) and much less bulky than an aircrew rig. That makes me think that it may me a civilian, emergency chute and perhaps (just perhaps here) the variety known as the P3-B. They were marketed as a sort of private pilot’s chute which would be logical since there are no O-2 bottles or attachments for a reserve which the ‘skydiver’ requires.
Attached are some ads from 1945 to 1954 with a comparison to the rig that Bruce photographed. I don’t think the chute is a type 226 as that number is above the ‘Serial number’ line on the data card. Thought I would point that out before another 9/57 got out the barn door.
Thanks to decades of reading some of the most horrific examples of penmanship this side of a Neanderthal cave wall, I would suggest that the name of the person that repacked ‘Cooper’s un-used’ chute was ‘William Jeswine’ as some additional grist for the Cooper trivia machinery (an insatiable beast requiring endless feedings). A quick search on that name revealed a company associated with parachutes in Seattle called ‘Skywalker Industrial’.
That is all.
Attached are some ads from 1945 to 1954 with a comparison to the rig that Bruce photographed. I don’t think the chute is a type 226 as that number is above the ‘Serial number’ line on the data card. Thought I would point that out before another 9/57 got out the barn door.
Thanks to decades of reading some of the most horrific examples of penmanship this side of a Neanderthal cave wall, I would suggest that the name of the person that repacked ‘Cooper’s un-used’ chute was ‘William Jeswine’ as some additional grist for the Cooper trivia machinery (an insatiable beast requiring endless feedings). A quick search on that name revealed a company associated with parachutes in Seattle called ‘Skywalker Industrial’.
That is all.
QuoteThat parachute Bruce photographed certainly appears to be very slim (considering it is from the 50’s) and much less bulky than an aircrew rig. That makes me think that it may me a civilian, emergency chute and perhaps (just perhaps here) the variety known as the P3-B. They were marketed as a sort of private pilot’s chute which would be logical since there are no O-2 bottles or attachments for a reserve which the ‘skydiver’ requires.
Attached are some ads from 1945 to 1954 with a comparison to the rig that Bruce photographed. I don’t think the chute is a type 226 as that number is above the ‘Serial number’ line on the data card. Thought I would point that out before another 9/57 got out the barn door.
Thanks to decades of reading some of the most horrific examples of penmanship this side of a Neanderthal cave wall, I would suggest that the name of the person that repacked ‘Cooper’s un-used’ chute was ‘William Jeswine’ as some additional grist for the Cooper trivia machinery (an insatiable beast requiring endless feedings). A quick search on that name revealed a company associated with parachutes in Seattle called ‘Skywalker Industrial’.
That is all.
Nice research Farflung ...arm chair detectives like Farflung make the FBI look like bunglers...although I'll reserve judgment until they publish their secret memos.
I guess georger was right when he posted:
Quote
The obvious person to go with Bruce is: Farflung.
Call Bruce back!
hangdiver
"Mans got to know his limitations"
Harry Callahan
I really hesitate to say this...but doesn't that "Quick Fit" ad look like the Cooper sketch...???
eta: Did Pioneer fire a parachute model...???...you know the guy modeling the rig...with a chip on his shoulder...maybe a Pioneer test jumper...???
eta: Okay...really...I'm just joking around here...but who knows...???
hangdiver
"Mans got to know his limitations"
Harry Callahan
eta: Did Pioneer fire a parachute model...???...you know the guy modeling the rig...with a chip on his shoulder...maybe a Pioneer test jumper...???
eta: Okay...really...I'm just joking around here...but who knows...???
hangdiver
"Mans got to know his limitations"
Harry Callahan
Point taken Georger. I used to deal with the FBI when I practiced criminal law. They often bungled stuff but ended up solving the crime anyway. So called "bungling" can be found in any major investigation that is pursuing literally thousands of leads. Investigations are not tightly controlled processes. Guesses are made, noise is confused for signal, all sorts of approximations are made in the search for incriminating evidence. That's the way it is.
In the end, to succeed they have to produce admissable evidence which will either compel a defendant to plead guilty or convince a trier of fact (usually a jury) to conclude that the accused is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. They accomplish that goal a lot, in spite of so called bumbles.
It's easy to take potshots at the FBI's handling of Norjack. I am among those Monday morning quarterbacks.
Could I have done a better job? I think so, but I could be dead wrong. I don't know the whole story about what the investigation entailed. The FBI started off by thinking it was probably a skydiver. That's what I thought too when the news broke.
I was impressed that the FBI looked at Sheridan Peterson. He remained an FBI suspect until ruled out by DNA evidence from the alleged Cooper tie. If the tie DNA isn't Cooper's then all bets are off.
Ted Braden is dead, but that doesn't mean he can't be investigated. His wife is still alive and there may be some step children who could be interviewed. There may be employment records that show where he was when the crime was committed. There may be personal items of his that still have good DNA samples on them.
I'd like to think that I will live long enough to see both Norjack and the Amelia Earhart mystery solved. I am optimistic that my wish will come true. The truth is out there somewhere, just waiting to be discovered.
I wish we had more Bruces. He gets out there, digs deep and stirs it up. I also wish Quade would allow Snow back on the forum. He does not deserve a life sentence. Enough time has passed.
377
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