DB Cooper

[Kamkisky 30]

5 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

 

FLY: My theory is simpler,, he demanded to fly nonstop to Mexico, Reno was in play he jumped early,, pretty simple.. it reconciles two big issues,, The range being wrong and Cooper giving no path.

This is a bonkers statement. Your theory is he tried to skyjack a different flight then changed his plans (that already takes it out of the razor). Then he selected a flight to skyjack that is in the PNW when he wants to go to Honduras, and the flight is heading north! Then your theory is he starting talking about the stairs, etc for jumping while 1,200 miles from Mexico when he planed on landing in Mexico (makes no sense). Then he negotiates for Reno because of range when you admit he knew the plane could fly to Mexico...this is the Cooper got gaslit theory. Then you claim after being gaslit he decides to jump at random and got lucky it wasn't the deep forest. There's absolutely nothing Occam's razor about any of that. It's at least three separate plans merged into on giant mess. It's actually the opposite of Occam's razor. 

FLY: Cooper didn't give a path, the plane could have been anywhere when he jumped so it was ad hoc...  they were still considering the coast right up to takeoff.. NO path means not targeted.

This is GC/cockpit. It has nothing to do with what Cooper said or did. Those guys didn't even know he was going to jump so it makes sense they are discussing things that from a parajackers point of view are insane and total non starters. You are fixated on what Rat and GC was thinking and then just applying it to Cooper. That's an error. You have to think about it from COOPER'S perspective, he is the one with the plan we are trying to figure out. 

FLY: You seam to have to be doing a lot of explaining for an easier option.. Cooper jumping south of the border is consistent with asking for US/American currency.

WTF? He is damn near at the Canadian border. If anything they would have brought Canadian money not Mexican. You're off by at least a 1,000 miles and several assumptions. 

FLY: Not true , it is a fact... Cooper's initial demand WAS airstairs lowered inflight,, it is clear in the files..

The issue is with your theory he has no reason to make that statement. He plans on landing in Mexico. 

FLY: Again explaining something claimed to be simple.. you are making this up,, the route to SoCal is V23..  There is zero evidence he wanted to fly to Portland, in fact you wouldn't expect the plane with a bomb to fly over populated areas.

There is only evidence he wanted to go south and avoid the coast. There is no other evidence, you are making it up. Show us some evidence from COOPER, not Rat or GC that even suggests he wants to do anything but fly south...which is where Portland is. You can't produce a single shred. There's a reason for that. 

FLY: Drag and fuel consumption is very basic stuff in aviation,, if he knew aviation even a little and refuelling procedures he would understand range limitations flying dirty. 

Why does he accept getting gaslight then? You want to have it both ways, Cooper understood the flying distance of a 727 both regular and knew dirty would limit it, but he just accepts abandoning his (second) plan because the cockpit said so? WTF? Makes no sense. Again, I know a small car with a 12 gallon tank can go more than 60 miles (in any configuration). I'm not letting someone gaslight me, where the downside is the rest of my life in a cage, into believing or negotiating or accepting that the car can only go 60 miles. I know it can go 200 miles. Why would I not say F you bro, fly this thing to Mexico or the blonde takes a free fall trip out the back? You have never addressed this, there is a reason. You can't. It doesn't add up. He has the bomb (you agree). He knows the distance flying clean (you agree). He understands dirty means less distance (you agree). But he just abandons his plan for...something...something...look over there it's a squirrel! 

FLY: YES, it is unique,, now we are getting somewhere...  luck and novelty is your subjective opinion but too limiting,,, Those played a role but you miss errors, misunderstandings and incompetence which have a greater impact..  I found a massive error that may have undermined the investigation..

Point is this is a unique case and something unique caused it to remian unsolved,,,  

Here we agree. But that unique thing isn't his clear instructions to fly south. You keep using "path" but you haven't defined it. Cooper did give a path, go south. He couldn't have been any more clear. He did not discuss or accept West, East or North. Again, show a shred of evidence COOPER was open to going anyway but south? You can't. 

 

 

Edited August 24 by Kamkisky

[olemisscub 582]

2 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

Two things,, I know why the FBI messed up with Hahneman... I just haven't disclosed it.

So now you ARE saying he was Cooper? Weren’t you saying just recently that you weren’t claiming he was Cooper, you just couldn’t eliminate him?

[FLYJACK 785]

 

FLY: My theory is simpler,, he demanded to fly nonstop to Mexico, Reno was in play he jumped early,, pretty simple.. it reconciles two big issues,, The range being wrong and Cooper giving no path.

This is a bonkers statement. Your theory is he tried to skyjack a different flight then changed his plans (that already takes it out of the razor). Then he selected a flight to skyjack that is in the PNW when he wants to go to Honduras, and the flight is heading north! Then your theory is he starting talking about the stairs, etc for jumping while 1,200 miles from Mexico when he planed on landing in Mexico (makes no sense). Then he negotiates for Reno because of range when you admit he knew the plane could fly to Mexico...this is the Cooper got gaslight theory. Then you claim after being gaslight he decides to jump at random and got lucky it wasn't the deep forest. There's absolutely nothing Occam's razor about any of that. It's at least three separate plans merged into on giant mess. It's actually the opposite of Occam's razor. 

It isn't bonkers that fly into PDX theory is irrelevant to this... he wasn't gaslit, it was a miscommunication.. This is so simple.. He demanded to flys to Mexico to refuel, crew misunderstood his demand to fly dirty the entire way and when Reno was in play he decided to jump early... it fits everything..

FLY: Cooper didn't give a path, the plane could have been anywhere when he jumped so it was ad hoc...  they were still considering the coast right up to takeoff.. NO path means not targeted.

This is GC/cockpit. It has nothing to do with what Cooper said or did. Those guys didn't even know he was going to jump so it makes sense they are discussing things that from a parajackers point of view are insane and total non starters. You are fixated on what Rat and GC was thinking and then just applying it to Cooper. That's an error. You have to think about it from COOPER'S perspective, he is the one with the plan we are trying to figure out. 

What the.. are you talking about,, they seriously considered flying the coast, Cooper had nothing to do with it...  Clearly you don't understand the issue

FLY: You seam to have to be doing a lot of explaining for an easier option.. Cooper jumping south of the border is consistent with asking for US/American currency.

WTF? He is damn near at the Canadian border. If anything they would have brought Canadian money not Mexican. You're off by at least a 1,000 miles and several assumptions. 

Huh,,, He didn't ask to go to Canada,, he was latin/Mexican/Swarthy.. even the FBI discussed looking into a Mexico connection.

FLY: Not true , it is a fact... Cooper's initial demand WAS airstairs lowered inflight,, it is clear in the files..

The issue is with your theory he has no reason to make that statement. He plans on landing in Mexico. 

He said it to have a stew lower the airstairs,, nothing wrong with making that statement early.

FLY: Again explaining something claimed to be simple.. you are making this up,, the route to SoCal is V23..  There is zero evidence he wanted to fly to Portland, in fact you wouldn't expect the plane with a bomb to fly over populated areas.

There is only evidence he wanted to go south and avoid the coast. There is no other evidence, you are making it up. Show us some evidence from COOPER, not Rat or GC that even suggests he wants to do anything but fly south...which is where Portland is. You can't produce a single shred. There's a reason for that. 

You fail to understand a compass. North is up, South is down. Even V23 isn't directly South, it goes slightly West and slightly East, You just don't understand this. You don't have to fly straight south 180 degrees to go south... You really make no sense with this..

FLY: Drag and fuel consumption is very basic stuff in aviation,, if he knew aviation even a little and refuelling procedures he would understand range limitations flying dirty. 

Why does he accept getting gaslight then? You want to have it both ways, Cooper understood the flying distance of a 727 both regular and knew dirty would limit it, but he just accepts abandoning his (second) plan because the cockpit said so? WTF? Makes no sense. Again, I know a small car with a 12 gallon tank can go more than 60 miles (in any configuration). I'm not letting someone gaslight me, where the downside is the rest of my life in a cage, into believing or negotiating or accepting that the car can only go 60 miles. I know it can go 200 miles. Why would I not say F you bro, fly this thing to Mexico or the blonde takes a free fall trip out the back? You have never addressed this, there is a reason. You can't. It doesn't add up. He has the bomb (you agree). He knows the distance flying clean (you agree). He understands dirty means less distance (you agree). But he just abandons his plan for...something...something...look over there it's a squirrel! 

I don't think he was gaslit.. that is your assumption,, I have addressed this,,,, you just didn't read it.. like I said we don't know what was in his head but he may have thought Reno was a setup and  decided to jump. He believed the plane could make Mexico and was informed it couldn't so he thinks they are setting him up, they weren't.

FLY: YES, it is unique,, now we are getting somewhere...  luck and novelty is your subjective opinion but too limiting,,, Those played a role but you miss errors, misunderstandings and incompetence which have a greater impact..  I found a massive error that may have undermined the investigation..

Point is this is a unique case and something unique caused it to remian unsolved,,,  

Here we agree. But that unique thing isn't his clear instructions to fly south. You keep using "path" but you haven't defined it. Cooper did give a path, go south. He couldn't have been any more clear. He did not discuss or accept West, East or North. Again, show a shred of evidence COOPER was open to going anyway but south? You can't. 

This is the biggest strawman I have ever seen in this case.. SOUTH is NOT a PATH...  You are very confused.

 

[FLYJACK 785]

3 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

So now you ARE saying he was Cooper? Weren’t you saying just recently that you weren’t claiming he was Cooper, you just couldn’t eliminate him?

No, I found a major error that caused the FBI to eliminate him.

Doesn't mean he was Cooper.. this jumping South stuff doesn't either..

 

FWW,, I am leaving for bit.... got serious things going on..

[Kamkisky 30]

2 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

 

I don't think he was gaslit.. that is your assumption,, I have addressed this,,,, you just didn't read it.. like I said we don't know what was in his head but he may have thought Reno was a setup and  decided to jump. He believed the plane could make Mexico and was informed it couldn't so he thinks they are setting him up, they weren't.

 

This is the definition of gaslighting. They are telling him something he knows isn't true trying to get him to believe it. 

Your whole theory here is Cooper thought (who's reading his mind now?) that he was being setup. So instead of saying no to the setup, which is based on information he knows is false, he just agrees to the setup and decides instead to jump at random into the night three countries from his final destination. Bonkers.

Just like he told the cowboy to go sit down, a Cooper with a plan to really go to Mexico tells the cockpit/GG to shove it, no more funny stuff and fly the plane to Mexico. There is no reason he can't do that. If needed Cooper could reiterate he has a blonde and bomb and he won't be taken alive. Captain Scott had a 16 year old daughter, he isn't going to play games. He'd fly the plane to Mexico. 

Let's be clear...if Cooper really wanted to go to Mexico he could have.  

Any theory without this obvious *and undisputed* fact incorporated can't be the right one.

Edited August 24 by Kamkisky

[olemisscub 582]

2 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

No, I found a major error that caused the FBI to eliminate him.

Debilitating nearsightedness from every eyewitness? 

Sorry, I couldn’t help the quip. Haha.

I look forward to seeing what you found one day. 

Hope all is well with you and yours. 

Edited August 24 by olemisscub

[monk71 6]

Here is another "suspect" (eliminated) who turned out to be an astronaut.

Pages 416 and 417 of vault part 109:

[georger 271]

1 hour ago, monk71 said:

Here is another "suspect" (eliminated) who turned out to be an astronaut.

Pages 416 and 417 of vault part 109:

who knew !

[georger 271]

17 hours ago, monk71 said:

Here is another "suspect" (eliminated) who turned out to be an astronaut.

Pages 416 and 417 of vault part 109:

Chick X was a pole vaulter, set records that stood for years at the Drake Relays, eventually became an F4 pilot for the Navy ... he said that his pole vaulting and high jumping and ski jumping... 'set me up for parachute training'. 'I think I could have done the Cooper jump just based on my pole vaulting and ski jumping alone ... the element of overcoming risk may be the biggest factor'.

Cooper did not have to be a parachutist with parachuting experience, at all ? A person with proven athletic skills, drive, and intelligence who perhaps already knew the Portland area (even had a family history there), could also have done the Cooper hijacking ... and there are people who fit that description who were never identified or examined.    

Edited August 25 by georger

[olemisscub 582]

On 8/24/2025 at 10:05 PM, monk71 said:

Here is another "suspect" (eliminated) who turned out to be an astronaut.

Pages 416 and 417 of vault part 109:

The key takeaway from this post is that the 302 briefly mentions a suspect becoming a bit of a Cooperite after being eliminated. This is the first time we’ve seen that as far as I’m aware. I don’t know of any other suspects like that.

[georger 271]

On 8/26/2025 at 1:58 AM, olemisscub said:

The key takeaway from this post is that the 302 briefly mentions a suspect becoming a bit of a Cooperite after being eliminated. This is the first time we’ve seen that as far as I’m aware. I don’t know of any other suspects like that.

Did any of the FBI's suspects have a grudge? Not against your 'airlines' but . . . . .

Edited August 28 by georger

[lxchilton 10]

17 hours ago, georger said:

Did any of the FBI's suspects have a grudge? Not against your 'airlines' but . . . . .

Any one of the criminally minded folks they looked into probably did but...

I don't buy the grudge as a viable investigative tool beyond the fact that you are looking for someone who wanted lots of money. So the grudge might have been "I don't have enough money!" 

If Cooper had a grudge that would help in narrowing down who he was I can't think it would have been one he would have remained silent about. Doing something like this to hurt a particular company, group, or individual without making it clear that you are doing it is counterproductive; if the party that was wronged somehow knew that Cooper was doing this to them specifically they would have been able to tell the FBI who he was. 

On the farthest side of possibility he could have just been completely crazy and it's some grudge that we can't begin to fathom...either way there ain't a criminal out there who doesn't have some kind of banal grudge against someone.

Edited August 28 by lxchilton

[georger 271]

3 hours ago, lxchilton said:

Any one of the criminally minded folks they looked into probably did but...

I don't buy the grudge as a viable investigative tool beyond the fact that you are looking for someone who wanted lots of money. So the grudge might have been "I don't have enough money!" 

If Cooper had a grudge that would help in narrowing down who he was I can't think it would have been one he would have remained silent about. Doing something like this to hurt a particular company, group, or individual without making it clear that you are doing it is counterproductive; if the party that was wronged somehow knew that Cooper was doing this to them specifically they would have been able to tell the FBI who he was. 

On the farthest side of possibility he could have just been completely crazy and it's some grudge that we can't begin to fathom...either way there ain't a criminal out there who doesn't have some kind of banal grudge against someone.

Tina asked Cooper 'why' he was doing this - he replied I have a grudge but not against your airlines, which is specific. If you take his statement at face value, he had a 'beef' with a value of $200k. Thats a low value! Would most people trade their lives for $200k ?

The context that cannot be ignored is a whole nation in economic and social turmoil. A nation at war. A nation in recession. But, people have decided it was the $200k he was after. The State of Washington was is turmoil. We assume hijackers are just petty fools after money with no justifiable reasons. Except money. All of which reduces Cooper's statement to nonsense and irrelevant. We just ignore it. We dismiss it. It did not matter to Cooper ... it was the money and the commotion he was after. Like a child throwing a fit in a store. Just something Cooper made up.

[lxchilton 10]

11 hours ago, georger said:

Tina asked Cooper 'why' he was doing this - he replied I have a grudge but not against your airlines, which is specific. If you take his statement at face value, he had a 'beef' with a value of $200k. Thats a low value! Would most people trade their lives for $200k ?

The context that cannot be ignored is a whole nation in economic and social turmoil. A nation at war. A nation in recession. But, people have decided it was the $200k he was after. The State of Washington was is turmoil. We assume hijackers are just petty fools after money with no justifiable reasons. Except money. All of which reduces Cooper's statement to nonsense and irrelevant. We just ignore it. We dismiss it. It did not matter to Cooper ... it was the money and the commotion he was after. Like a child throwing a fit in a store. Just something Cooper made up.

Well, she asked if he had a grudge against the airline and he replied that he had a grudge but not against her airline...she put the word in his mouth.

As to the literal interpretation of said "grudge," the state of America in 1971 is the very reason I think it's impossible to use it as a reliable investigative tool. You can choose any almost industry a there was a downturn in profits, layoffs, lives being destroyed, etc. 

Because the options are essentially limitless, Cooper didn't bring it up himself, and he never elaborates on the exact importance of his "grudge," I'm disinclined to take it further than that he was responding to a question in a conversational manner. He asked for a certain amount of money, tried to give some of it away, and was uninterested in any other specific items save for those used in his escape. 

Cooper seemed hesitant to do anything that would help identify who he was; deflecting questions about his past, thoughts on current places, reclaiming items that he had left identifying information on...why would his vague elaboration to Tina about his motive be anything other than another deflection. 

I will not say that he didn't have a motive; Cooper was motivated by something to commit so brazen a crime, but money was the ultimate goal. He could have been dissatisfied in a divorce or in some kind of money trouble elsewhere. He could have been unhappy with his retirement from an affected industry or even the military and decided he'd rather have a bundle of cash to launder in Vegas. 

tl;dr the grudge is useful only to the point that a suspect has to be at an inflection point in their life in November of 1971 that would explain why they wanted $200,000 so badly. It's something that we can use if we find a promising suspect...but it's a double edged sword because it does little to narrow down the suspect pool at all.

[georger 271]

8 hours ago, lxchilton said:

Well, she asked if he had a grudge against the airline and he replied that he had a grudge but not against her airline...she put the word in his mouth.

As to the literal interpretation of said "grudge," the state of America in 1971 is the very reason I think it's impossible to use it as a reliable investigative tool. You can choose any almost industry a there was a downturn in profits, layoffs, lives being destroyed, etc. 

Because the options are essentially limitless, Cooper didn't bring it up himself, and he never elaborates on the exact importance of his "grudge," I'm disinclined to take it further than that he was responding to a question in a conversational manner. He asked for a certain amount of money, tried to give some of it away, and was uninterested in any other specific items save for those used in his escape. 

Cooper seemed hesitant to do anything that would help identify who he was; deflecting questions about his past, thoughts on current places, reclaiming items that he had left identifying information on...why would his vague elaboration to Tina about his motive be anything other than another deflection. 

I will not say that he didn't have a motive; Cooper was motivated by something to commit so brazen a crime, but money was the ultimate goal. He could have been dissatisfied in a divorce or in some kind of money trouble elsewhere. He could have been unhappy with his retirement from an affected industry or even the military and decided he'd rather have a bundle of cash to launder in Vegas. 

tl;dr the grudge is useful only to the point that a suspect has to be at an inflection point in their life in November of 1971 that would explain why they wanted $200,000 so badly. It's something that we can use if we find a promising suspect...but it's a double edged sword because it does little to narrow down the suspect pool at all.

Well, she asked if he had a grudge against the airline and he replied that he had a grudge but not against her airline...she put the word in his mouth.

Her words are:

In response to her query as to why he had chosen a Northwest airplane to hijack, he said ‘he had “a grudge but not against Northwest Airlines” adding ‘that the Northwest plane just happened to be in the right place at the right time’.

 

Tina did not use the word grudge. The word grudge is his.  

I spend all of my time correcting people! Very time consuming - just cant do this any more. I need a break.

 

Edited August 29 by georger

[Nicholas Broughton 90]

1 hour ago, georger said:

Well, she asked if he had a grudge against the airline and he replied that he had a grudge but not against her airline...she put the word in his mouth.

Her words are:

In response to her query as to why he had chosen a Northwest airplane to hijack, he said ‘he had “a grudge but not against Northwest Airlines” adding ‘that the Northwest plane just happened to be in the right place at the right time’.

 

Tina did not use the word grudge. The word grudge is his.  

I spend all of my time correcting people! Very time consuming - just cant do this any more. I need a break.

 

Thanks G! You have forgotten more about this case then most will ever learn. I feel like people point to this when dismissing the grudge as just part of the conversation and mistakenly attribute Tina to bringing the word up when it was in fact Cooper. Whoever this guy was he had an ax to grind. Maybe nothing specific as his comment suggests but just in general. The system? Society? The current state of affairs in America? Did he want money sure but I think he was striving for something more. There are less bold ways to acquire 200k criminally. He is on the low end dollar wise as far as parajacking ransom requests go. Cooper imo was a peculiar and complex individual. A man with strong opinions and convictions. Like lxchilton said it’s too general to narrow down the suspect pool but I think it should be baked into the psychological profile of Cooper.

Edited August 29 by Nicholas Broughton

[lxchilton 10]

5 hours ago, georger said:

Well, she asked if he had a grudge against the airline and he replied that he had a grudge but not against her airline...she put the word in his mouth.

Her words are:

In response to her query as to why he had chosen a Northwest airplane to hijack, he said ‘he had “a grudge but not against Northwest Airlines” adding ‘that the Northwest plane just happened to be in the right place at the right time’.

 

Tina did not use the word grudge. The word grudge is his.  

I spend all of my time correcting people! Very time consuming - just cant do this any more. I need a break.

 

This was poor wording on my part--which is great because we are talking about word choice! Ah well. :)

Her original statement, which refers to "a grudge" more vaguely, is what stuck with me:

We're getting into head canon territory for me, but I always read it as she asked if he had a grudge and he said no. That's not explicit here. 

Either way, I don't think it's important beyond the fact that there was something driving him to do it...but that's the case for any criminal committing any crime; had Cooper had a grudge that would really narrow him down it would have been something that he was vocal about. "I'm mad about Cuba!" or "These hippies are ruining our chances in Vietnam!" or "my [insert tie particle job here] fired me!" (he was old so I assume this is the kind of stuff that would bother him).

Cooper just maintained a level of conversation throughout the flight that kept Tina relatively calm and that, like the flight being in the right place at the right time, served his needs. 

I don't agree that the grudge is a good avenue to who Cooper was, but I do bow to your case knowledge for sure!

[georger 271]

8 hours ago, Nicholas Broughton said:

Thanks G! You have forgotten more about this case then most will ever learn. I feel like people point to this when dismissing the grudge as just part of the conversation and mistakenly attribute Tina to bringing the word up when it was in fact Cooper. Whoever this guy was he had an ax to grind. Maybe nothing specific as his comment suggests but just in general. The system? Society? The current state of affairs in America? Did he want money sure but I think he was striving for something more. There are less bold ways to acquire 200k criminally. He is on the low end dollar wise as far as parajacking ransom requests go. Cooper imo was a peculiar and complex individual. A man with strong opinions and convictions. Like lxchilton said it’s too general to narrow down the suspect pool but I think it should be baked into the psychological profile of Cooper.

You're right. Touch to nail down. His grudge could have been as broad as poverty. 

On the other hand his grudge could have been quite specific and personal. It seems an odd remark to me ? In fact he made a number of personal revealing statements. That is one of the reasons I give his remark credibility .... others will see it differently.

Thanks!

Edited August 30 by georger

[Kamkisky 30]

Let assume he has a grudge. Let’s also assume it’s not against NWA as he said. 

What entities could he be getting back at by skyjacking a plane? Outside of the airline industry or banks there’s aren’t many. And skyjacking a plane because you have a grudge against the manufacturer is to removed. If you had a grudge against BMW would you carjack a BMW for revenge? 

His grudge can’t be personal, he didn’t target a person.

If his grudge was political he sure didn’t act or talk like it and ultimately wouldn’t have had any negative impact on it. There is no evidence he was acting to support a specific political cause. 

His grudge IMO is more general. He has a grudge against the system. He is sticking it to the man and getting what he sees as his in the process. This does have value in identifying him. He isn’t a political radical. He isn’t a NWA or Boeing employee. He isn’t carrying out the act against an individual. He has a grudge against society and this is a high profile, and high profit, way to stick it to the system.  
 

 

Edited September 1 by Kamkisky

[Nicholas Broughton 90]

13 hours ago, Kamkisky said:

Let assume he has a grudge. Let’s also assume it’s not against NWA as he said. 

What entities could he be getting back at by skyjacking a plane? Outside of the airline industry or banks there’s aren’t many. And skyjacking a plane because you have a grudge against the manufacturer is to removed. If you had a grudge against BMW would you carjack a BMW for revenge? 

His grudge can’t be personal, he didn’t target a person.

If his grudge was political he sure didn’t act or talk like it and ultimately wouldn’t have had any negative impact on it. There is no evidence he was acting to support a specific political cause. 

His grudge IMO is more general. He has a grudge against the system. He is sticking it to the man and getting what he sees as his in the process. This does have value in identifying him. He isn’t a political radical. He isn’t a NWA or Boeing employee. He isn’t carrying out the act against an individual. He has a grudge against society and this is a high profile, and high profit, way to stick it to the system.  
 

 

Spot on…. I completely agree. 

[monk71 6]

22 hours ago, Kamkisky said:

Let assume he has a grudge. Let’s also assume it’s not against NWA as he said. 

What entities could he be getting back at by skyjacking a plane? Outside of the airline industry or banks there’s aren’t many. And skyjacking a plane because you have a grudge against the manufacturer is to removed. If you had a grudge against BMW would you carjack a BMW for revenge? 

His grudge can’t be personal, he didn’t target a person.

If his grudge was political he sure didn’t act or talk like it and ultimately wouldn’t have had any negative impact on it. There is no evidence he was acting to support a specific political cause. 

His grudge IMO is more general. He has a grudge against the system. He is sticking it to the man and getting what he sees as his in the process. This does have value in identifying him. He isn’t a political radical. He isn’t a NWA or Boeing employee. He isn’t carrying out the act against an individual. He has a grudge against society and this is a high profile, and high profit, way to stick it to the system.  
 

 

Someone here had also mentioned the possibility that his grudge was against the insurance company for NWO... who actually reimbursed the airline. I doubt this, since you'd have to be a real insider to know such. This is similar to a grudge against the bank - which I'm sure didn't lose a dime. The Cooper case was essentially a bank robbery, except he likely didn't know which bank the money would come from.

A grudge against the FBI was first proposed by Bill Rollins (regarding Joe Lakich). That may seem far out there, but if the FBI (also a good proxy for the Man or the system) had done you wrong, you might commit a crime that you'd be certain would automatically involve them, such as air piracy.

We don't even know if Personal vs. General was a distinction to Cooper in his grudge. One can have a personal grudge, but blame the larger system for his issue. For example, Chris Magee was an adrenaline junkie who excelled at combat, but was a square peg outside the military. He found "no work that gave him meaning." He knew he could do things rare few others would even dare, and found few options in legitimate endeavors, so decided for criminality instead. Sad.
 

 

[lxchilton 10]

On 9/1/2025 at 12:10 AM, Kamkisky said:

Let assume he has a grudge. Let’s also assume it’s not against NWA as he said. 

What entities could he be getting back at by skyjacking a plane? Outside of the airline industry or banks there’s aren’t many. And skyjacking a plane because you have a grudge against the manufacturer is to removed. If you had a grudge against BMW would you carjack a BMW for revenge? 

His grudge can’t be personal, he didn’t target a person.

If his grudge was political he sure didn’t act or talk like it and ultimately wouldn’t have had any negative impact on it. There is no evidence he was acting to support a specific political cause. 

His grudge IMO is more general. He has a grudge against the system. He is sticking it to the man and getting what he sees as his in the process. This does have value in identifying him. He isn’t a political radical. He isn’t a NWA or Boeing employee. He isn’t carrying out the act against an individual. He has a grudge against society and this is a high profile, and high profit, way to stick it to the system.  
 

 

I think when we find Cooper the grudge will fit nicely, but it seems like a bad avenue in terms of narrowing down who he was. It's got to come from another angle otherwise we are just looking at every tall, 50ish year old guy who has lost a job or been wronged by "the system" in the late 60s/early 70s. 

I've known enough people over the years who clearly think there is some kind of injustice levied by the world et al against them and yet none of them have committed any sort of crime. 

I'm not saying it's impossible, but it seems like a weaker place to start than others. 

[lxchilton 10]

8 hours ago, monk71 said:

Someone here had also mentioned the possibility that his grudge was against the insurance company for NWO... who actually reimbursed the airline. I doubt this, since you'd have to be a real insider to know such. This is similar to a grudge against the bank - which I'm sure didn't lose a dime. The Cooper case was essentially a bank robbery, except he likely didn't know which bank the money would come from.

A grudge against the FBI was first proposed by Bill Rollins (regarding Joe Lakich). That may seem far out there, but if the FBI (also a good proxy for the Man or the system) had done you wrong, you might commit a crime that you'd be certain would automatically involve them, such as air piracy.

We don't even know if Personal vs. General was a distinction to Cooper in his grudge. One can have a personal grudge, but blame the larger system for his issue. For example, Chris Magee was an adrenaline junkie who excelled at combat, but was a square peg outside the military. He found "no work that gave him meaning." He knew he could do things rare few others would even dare, and found few options in legitimate endeavors, so decided for criminality instead. Sad.
 

 

I just have a hard time believing that so specific a grudge would motivate a crime like this but not involve the perpetrator announcing that's what the who thing was about. It seems it would be a vanishingly rare individual who would be satisfied knowing that they had pulled one over on the organization that wronged them and not make it clear that said organization had been bested. 

If it was the case...it makes the investigative avenue all the more poor.

[lxchilton 10]

This has to be a mistake on the part of the FBI; I don't remember seeing anything about a radio being brought onboard before:

EDIT: They bring it up again later:

Edited September 4 by lxchilton

[olemisscub 582]

1 hour ago, lxchilton said:

This has to be a mistake on the part of the FBI; I don't remember seeing anything about a radio being brought onboard before:

EDIT: They bring it up again later:

I've never had a real clear answer for this, but it was a radio for "cockpit communications" according to Tina's statement. I wrote this on your reddit post just now, but the word "radio" comes from Tina. I think it would be better described as a walkie-talkie for communicating with Al Lee and/or the fuel truck guys. Essentially it was for short-range communication with some of the guys on the ground outside. 

Cooper seemed to be aware of its existence. It's nowhere in the transcript where they mention discussing this with him, but I guess they must have explained to him at some point that it would be needed to communicate with the guy bringing the ransom items, etc.

 

Edited September 4 by olemisscub