DB Cooper

[Kamkisky 13]

9 hours ago, olemisscub said:

Not "sky glow" precisely, but in a memo from Charlie Farrell he wrote this:

 

 

He jumped the lights of BG and likely used I-5 as a guide (other distinctive lights). 
 

Cooper knew the area from the air and ground. He knew roughly where he was located the whole skyjacking. This seems fairly straightforward to me. Go A to B over an area you are familiar with. It makes total sense. 

[Nicholas Broughton 78]

1 hour ago, olemisscub said:

You’re not blocked on my FB group fwiw. Maybe Eric’s. Only person blocked is a bot account. 

Right and that is EU’s call, it’s his group.  FWIW I knew about Fly’s Jacque Voler alias account on the group since day one and never said anything to EU or anyone else about it. Fly has had an open Invite from EU to Cooper Con’s  since 2021, and has one with the new regime. Same goes for Ryan’s YouTube channel, and The Cooper Vortex podcast. Maybe you need to get your facts right William. 

Edited July 9 by Nicholas Broughton

[FLYJACK 772]

19 minutes ago, Nicholas Broughton said:

Right and that is EU’s call, it’s his group.  FWIW I knew about Fly’s Jacque Voler alias account on the group since day one and never said anything to EU or anyone else about it. Fly has had an open Invite from EU to Cooper Cons since 2020, and has one with the new regime. Same goes for Ryan’s YouTube channel, and The Cooper Vortex podcast. Maybe you need to get your facts straight William. 

I have my facts straight... you screwed everything up, not me. I was booted from Ryan's FB by somebody. Cunningham told me nobody wants me on FB.

Do you think insults and disseminating lies is helpful in any way?

So, let me try again, what exactly do you want Nicky? because this has nothing to with Cooper and your strategy seems to be self defeating.

Edited July 9 by FLYJACK

[Nicholas Broughton 78]

8 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

I have my facts straight... you screwed everything up, not me.

Do you think insults and disseminating lies is helpful in any way?

So, let me try again, what exactly do you want? because this has nothing to with Cooper and your strategy seems to be self defeating.

I don’t want anything. I just calls ‘em like I sees ‘em. You have made my point, now carry on…

Edited July 9 by Nicholas Broughton

[olemisscub 548]

22 minutes ago, Kamkisky said:

He jumped the lights of BG and likely used I-5 as a guide (other distinctive lights). 
 

He was probably out a minute or two before BG. If there was a break in the clouds there would have been enough visible lights if he was over Woodland or LaCenter for him to know he was past the Forest. 

[georger 268]

32 minutes ago, Kamkisky said:

He jumped the lights of BG and likely used I-5 as a guide (other distinctive lights). 
 

Cooper knew the area from the air and ground. He knew roughly where he was located the whole skyjacking. This seems fairly straightforward to me. Go A to B over an area you are familiar with. It makes total sense. 

Excellent. I did a search of my files. Searched here but found nothing ???

The discussion about seeing lights of Portland (Vancouver) ahead occurred at DZ in March of 2009 when Ckret was active ... Ckret may be the source. Let me keep searching but are these old files even available at DZ today ?

 

snowmman   Jumps License In sport :   :   :   Mar 29, 2009, 11:24 PM Post #9421 of 24346 (4375 views) Copy Shortcut Registered: Mar 30, 2008 Posts: 4497 Re: [georger] The only thing I could find (re jumping before Columbia) [In reply to] Can't Post     In Reply To When Rat says "can SEE the suburbs of Portland ahead" thats very specific to me. Likewise, had not crossed the Columbia yet". But Vancouver is not mentioned so they were close enough for it not to be mentioned OR they were headed at Portland with Vancouver not in their thoughts. Right. Basically we haven't got a clue. We're trying to guess based on Rataczak testimony we don't have (because there is no other data to bound the jump point), and all we have is a couple of short sentences from Ckret. It is unclear whether Ckret had more, or even if Ckret might have editorialized. Note: The comment about the Columbia, as far as Ckret told us, was "felt", not seen. Ckret never described what "felt" was based on. Instruments? Time? Lights of Portland? Unclear. However, there is some other good data we could muse on. Whoever created the flight path, saw fit to put radar ticks after the Columbia. Why? Could also ask why the first radar tick was selected to be 19:54 (it's not at Seattle). Looking at Sluggo's annotated flight path, there are actually more radar ticks that he's not labelled, past the Columbia. I see 20:19, 20:20, 20:21 at least to 20:25 Here's another thing to muse on: The 3 mystery ticks west of the flight path, are on the other side of the Columbia. (This post was edited by snowmman on Mar 29, 2009, 11:24 PM)

 

Edited July 9 by georger

[FLYJACK 772]

11 minutes ago, Nicholas Broughton said:

I don’t want anything. I just calls ‘em like I sees ‘em. You have made my point, now carry on…

You have no point...  

and you need to get your eyes checked because you made many false allegations.

You just don't have the game for this stuff, Nicky.

[FLYJACK 772]

The problem here is that Cooper can't determine where he is until he descends the stairs at 8:09-10.. and they are more than a few feet open.

Then he may see lights/glow possible ground lights.. but jumps within a couple minutes.

So he really had only a few minutes to determine and pick a jump spot. It doesn't indicate foreknowledge or planning but just look down and go...

[georger 268]

40 minutes ago, Kamkisky said:

He jumped the lights of BG and likely used I-5 as a guide (other distinctive lights). 
 

Cooper knew the area from the air and ground. He knew roughly where he was located the whole skyjacking. This seems fairly straightforward to me. Go A to B over an area you are familiar with. It makes total sense. 

Well one could very easily think that!  Cooper's tell may be his speech about Tacoma vs Seattle, from the air. He may even know the Portland area - from the air? Hell he may even know Tena Bar!  He may even be a member of a long time Washington family - an athlete - who has a grudge about losing the family fortune .... then decides to use his skills as an athlete ............................. meanwhile crazy Flo has everyone looking for Hispanics! ?  

There seems to be little doubt Ckret found proof the crew could see lights ahead .... and if they could Cooper could.

[olemisscub 548]

15 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

but just look down and go...

Look down and go at the earliest moment when he feels comfortable doing so… He had no reason to not wait until he was comfortable. His life depended on it. 

[olemisscub 548]

5 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

Not Wayfarer, Ray Ban Balorama or something similar..

One potential clue everybody dismisses is Alice's claim that the sunglasses were prescription.. if Cooper wore prescription sunglasses then he wore prescription glasses.. They did take brand name sunglasses and do prescription lenses back then.

This isn’t meant as a dig at your suspect, so don’t take that way. I’m genuinely curious how you square away the fact that Hahneman was noted as wearing regular bifocal glasses before switching to sunglasses during his hijacking. Obviously Cooper was managing just fine without glasses in the terminal and on the plane before he began the hijacking. 

[georger 268]

8 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

Look down and go at the earliest moment when he feels comfortable doing so… He had no reason to not wait until he was comfortable. His life depended on it. 

So far he has the world by the tail.............  and he sure as hell is not blind ..............

a day later his last 'transaction' may have been to meet somebody in a boat at Tena Bar .......... and off to the next chapter of his life. With the FBI looking for a major career criminal (Hispanic?) of which he is not! The system that beats the system! Actually the system that lets the system beat itself.

Edited July 9 by georger

[Nicholas Broughton 78]

1 hour ago, FLYJACK said:

You have no point...  

and you need to get your eyes checked because you made many false allegations.

You just don't have the game for this stuff, Nicky.

Yeah. I think we need to consider the source on this one. Biggest coward in the Vortex claiming people are scared and don’t have the game for it lol. I know, I know, you have a project you are working on with others and they asked you not to discuss the case publicly. If I’m blind then you must be hard of hearing because you discuss the case publicly on a daily basis. 

Edited July 9 by Nicholas Broughton

[Kamkisky 13]

29 minutes ago, georger said:

Well one could very easily think that!  Cooper's tell may be his speech about Tacoma vs Seattle, from the air. He may even know the Portland area - from the air? Hell he may even know Tena Bar!  He may even be a member of a long time Washington family - an athlete - who has a grudge about losing the family fortune .... then decides to use his skills as an athlete ............................. meanwhile crazy Flo has everyone looking for Hispanics! ?  

There seems to be little doubt Ckret found proof the crew could see lights ahead .... and if they could Cooper could.

Cooper would not want to get to Vancouver/Portland. That doesn’t work for him. And what to we find? He jumps the next biggest town lights to the north. It’s all too much for it to be total chance and luck. The pilots could see lights, Cooper could see lights. Why in the hell would he not be leveraging the lights for his jump? I think the vortex has been overthinking this for a while. 

Cooper’s strategy is so solid it’s replicable in other places. A skyjacker takes off from San Jose at night. He wanted Helena but negotiates Salt Lake. The plane takes off and clears the Altamont Pass and passes over I-5… the plane is then over the Central Valley with one big metro in Sac and a series of smaller cities to the south (Stockton/Modesto). Any parajacker with basic knowledge of the region could use those lights and jump into flat farmland every time. It’s completely repeatable. It only takes some knowledge of the region. 

[Nicholas Broughton 78]

2 minutes ago, Kamkisky said:

Cooper would not want to get to Vancouver/Portland. That doesn’t work for him. And what to we find? He jumps the next biggest town lights to the north. It’s all too much for it to be total chance and luck. The pilots could see lights, Cooper could see lights. Why in the hell would he not be leveraging the lights for his jump? I think the vortex has been overthinking this for a while. 

Cooper’s strategy is so solid it’s replicable in other places. A skyjacker takes off from San Jose at night. He wanted Helena but negotiates Salt Lake. The plane takes off and clears the Altamont Pass and passes over I-5… the plane is then over the Central Valley with one big metro in Sac and a series of smaller cities to the south (Stockton/Modesto). Any parajacker with basic knowledge of the region could use those lights and jump into flat farmland every time. It’s completely repeatable. It only takes some knowledge of the region. 

Agreed. 

[olemisscub 548]

14 minutes ago, Kamkisky said:

Any parajacker with basic knowledge of the region could use those lights and jump into flat farmland every time. It’s completely repeatable. It only takes some knowledge of the region. 

I’ve said many times that I believe Cooper was 100% winging it, yet I still give him enough credit for him to have understood he was over Clark/Cowlitz County when he jumped. He almost certainly saw the glow of Portland coming up in the distance through the clouds once he got to the bottom of the stairs and it would be silly for him to have not known that was Portland. There are only two cities of such a size in that entire region of the country.

[FLYJACK 772]

2 hours ago, olemisscub said:

Look down and go at the earliest moment when he feels comfortable doing so… He had no reason to not wait until he was comfortable. His life depended on it. 

yes of course, but his jump was within a few minutes of getting to the bottom.

Edited Wednesday at 09:59 PM by FLYJACK

[FLYJACK 772]

2 hours ago, olemisscub said:

This isn’t meant as a dig at your suspect, so don’t take that way. I’m genuinely curious how you square away the fact that Hahneman was noted as wearing regular bifocal glasses before switching to sunglasses during his hijacking. Obviously Cooper was managing just fine without glasses in the terminal and on the plane before he began the hijacking. 

 

Most people can still function without their glasses,

There was an incident when he forgot them and his son brought them to him..

Edited Wednesday at 09:53 PM by FLYJACK

[FLYJACK 772]

2 hours ago, Nicholas Broughton said:

Yeah. I think we need to consider the source on this one. Biggest coward in the Vortex claiming people are scared and don’t have the game for it lol. I know, I know, you have a project you are working on with others and they asked you not to discuss the case publicly. If I’m blind then you must be hard of hearing because you discuss the case publicly on a daily basis. 

Exactly, consider the source,, Nicky who has lied and made false accusations completely screwing up my previous posts.. 

Clearly, you are threatened.. I think I know why...

but, I won't forget this nonsense Nicky. Your behaviour is irrational.

Edited Wednesday at 10:05 PM by FLYJACK

[olemisscub 548]

26 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

 

Most people can still function without their glasses,

There was an incident when he forgot them and his son brought them to him..

Fair enough, but from my critical perspective that’s still another obvious inconsistency between the two hijackers. 

As a critic, I think the most jarring one is that he had his ransom items from the aft stairs and then had the passengers exit out the aft stairs while he stood back there as they all filed past him. These were two things that Cooper was very clear needed to occur out the front exit. 

That’s my issue with him or McCoy or any copycat being considered Cooper. They all had the basic premise of the heist from news reports but didn’t have the exact details and minutiae. Aside from jumping out with money, every copycat hijacking was totally unique and were only similar to Cooper in the broad strokes. 

If Cooper had actually struck a second time, I have no doubt he would have made some improvements, but it beggars belief that he would have deviated from his original heist in a WORSE way (McCoy wearing a ridiculous outfit that only drew attention to himself, Bill demanding the action take place from the aft stairs and violently threatening passengers, etc)

Edited Wednesday at 10:18 PM by olemisscub

[olemisscub 548]

Only photo I could find of the guy 

 

[FLYJACK 772]

29 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

Fair enough, but from my critical perspective that’s still another obvious inconsistency between the two hijackers. 

As a critic, I think the most jarring one is that he had his ransom items from the aft stairs and then had the passengers exit out the aft stairs while he stood back there as they all filed past him. These were two things that Cooper was very clear needed to occur out the front exit. 

That’s my issue with him or McCoy or any copycat being considered Cooper. They all had the basic premise of the heist from Cooper but didn’t have the exact details and minutiae. Aside from jumping out with money, every copycat hijacking was totally unique and were only similar to Cooper in the broad strokes. 

If Cooper had actually struck a second time, I have no doubt he would have made some improvements, but it beggars belief that he would have deviated from his original heist in a WORSE way (McCoy wearing a ridiculous outfit that only drew attention to himself, Bill demanding the action take place from the aft stairs and violently threatening passengers, etc)

There are things that appear inconsistent that aren't in reality.. The teeth is a good example, when I read that there was a report he was missing several upper side teeth I was baffled because at that time I had a pic of him showing his upper front teeth from 1972 and none were missing..  I couldn't explain it then but I knew there had to be some explanation.. it took me six years and I found out that one person made that claim and it was the two upper bicuspids missing.. Down the side and common for people who wear braces and very difficult to notice.

As for exiting out the rear vs the front.. I don't see that as an issue, Cooper had a briefcase bomb and was not revealed as the hijacker whereas H had a gun and was known.. I think exiting out the back was safer for H in his situation, he controlled the exit point.

There have been some big things that I have had to work through and a few I am still working on..  the biggest one was if he was in FBI custody how did they not figure out he was Cooper... 

Edited Wednesday at 10:47 PM by FLYJACK

[olemisscub 548]

19 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

As for exiting out the rear vs the front.. I don't see that as an issue, Cooper had a briefcase bomb and was not revealed as the hijacker whereas H had a gun and was known.. I think exiting out the back was safer for H in his situation, he controlled the exit point.

 

Even if you believe it was safer for him, this still leaves my pertinent point unanswered. Why do anything differently that isn’t an obvious improvement? When using a briefcase bomb and remaining as low key as possible worked so well the first time, why devolve into a more thuggish heist where you are pointing your gun at passengers and directly threatening to blow them away? Bill’s method ultimately worked, but using a pistol and allowing every single passenger to get a look at you cannot possibly be better than Cooper’s subtlety. 

[FLYJACK 772]

2 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

Even if you believe it was safer for him, this still leaves my pertinent point unanswered. Why do anything differently that isn’t an obvious improvement? When using a briefcase bomb and remaining as low key as possible worked so well the first time, why devolve into a more thuggish heist where you are pointing your gun at passengers and directly threatening to blow them away? Bill’s method ultimately worked, but using a pistol and allowing every single passenger to get a look at you cannot possibly be better than Cooper’s subtlety. 

I can explain that but don't want to give it all away..

Let's say, if H was Cooper then using ONLY a briefcase bomb was not his initial plan.

and if Cooper's bomb was fake and he did not have a concealed weapon that would make him vulnerable. 

H used a gun and a fake briefcase bomb that he threatened to explode by shooting it.

[olemisscub 548]

3 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

 

H used a gun and a fake briefcase bomb that he threatened to explode by shooting it.

Then he was a fool. That’s not at all how explosives work. But to be fair, he only needed to fool his hostages. 

Edited Wednesday at 11:10 PM by olemisscub