DB Cooper

[Kamkisky 13]

2 minutes ago, Robert99 said:

My understanding is that the aft stairs were removed for serious Air America drops and that a metallic slide was installed down to the bottom of the fuselage.  So jumpers and cargo just slid out the bottom of the fuselage.

I am not aware of any information on the flap position at the time of the jump, but my guess is that it was still at 15 degrees, and the airspeed was still in the neighborhood of 225 MPH.

Thanks. 

Cooper did ask them to slow down. That would indicate 15 degrees and landing gear down didn’t lowering the aft stairs fully.

At one point Cooper was looking at a handle he depressed to lower the stairs (which Tina showed him). Yet, the aft stairs were slightly open but not enough he could walk down standing up, Do you think that’s the correct scenario? 

I have this image of Cooper looking at the cracked but not fully descended stairs and having second thoughts. No one had ever tried this. He’d have to figure out how to get the stairs open enough to jump, not knowing for sure that was possible. The Cooper copycats knew it could be done. Cooper didn’t. 

Imagine having to put your weight on those steps to figure out the reaction of the stairs and plane? Dude was a criminal but he earned some of that money the hard way. 
 

 

 

 

[olemisscub 547]

4 hours ago, Kamkisky said:

Rat saw sky glow.

Can you point me to documentation of this? Thanks. 

Not "sky glow" precisely, but in a memo from Charlie Farrell he wrote this:

 

 

Edited Wednesday at 08:54 AM by olemisscub

[olemisscub 547]

3 hours ago, monk71 said:

Did Cooper wear Ray-Ban Wayfarer sunglasses? If not, do we have any idea what brand/style it likely was? Were they described as wrap-around?

 

I generally put him in Balorama's in my animations. 

McCoy was wearing mirrored aviators. Mac wore aviators as well. 

[olemisscub 547]

2 hours ago, Kamkisky said:

What time do you have him sending Tina to the cockpit?  

Tina entered the cockpit at 7:40 according to the radio comms. Plane took off at 7:36

[FLYJACK 772]

10 hours ago, georger said:

Fact is I have always supported you. I supported you on Shutter;s site and told people to be tolerant.

You have a mastery of files and docs which is far far above anyone else. Other people wouldnt devote the time but you do! 

If you are looking for praise there it is. Im just being factual.

I am not looking for praise..  not needed.

Just respect I think I deserve.. 

If you disagree with something, don't attack personally or distort my position

 

[FLYJACK 772]

17 hours ago, Nicholas Broughton said:

 If had to hazard a guess as to the real reason, I'd say it’s rooted in an insecurity. Maybe you have a hard time properly pronouncing the names of people, places, and things associated with the case or something.

This rings a bell Ryan said I can't pronounce names... Ironic coming from Nicky and Ryan who can't pronounce Hahneman or Mazatlan.. is this some backwards world..  It must have come from somebody on FB who just made it up and you guys are trying to that lie it against me..

Not sure what Nicky's strategy is,, some reverse psychology to get me to go on podcast's by insulting me,, doesn't really make sense..

I have spoken live to 600 people twice and did a show that reaches 84 million people.. I don't talk about it because it isn't Cooper related.

So no, I am not afraid of media or speaking...

Edited Wednesday at 02:26 PM by FLYJACK

[FLYJACK 772]

8 hours ago, monk71 said:

Did Cooper wear Ray-Ban Wayfarer sunglasses? If not, do we have any idea what brand/style it likely was? Were they described as wrap-around?

This probably has no evidentiary value and is unlikely to advance the case, but it just bugs me how images show such a variety... just another blurred detail of the vortex. I think one video showed McCoy as wearing mirrored sunglasses.

Not Wayfarer, Ray Ban Balorama or something similar..

One potential clue everybody dismisses is Alice's claim that the sunglasses were prescription.. if Cooper wore prescription sunglasses then he wore prescription glasses.. They did take brand name sunglasses and do prescription lenses back then.

[FLYJACK 772]

7 hours ago, Robert99 said:

OleMiss is right.  The airliner really did have to slow down.

The NWA performance group in Minneapolis told the crew to fly at an Indicated Air Speed of 170 Knots to achieve the best range for the aircraft configuration that Cooper specified.

At 10,000 feet pressure altitude with the existing temperature, that 170 KIAS becomes 195 Knots True Air Speed.

And that 195 KTAS is 225 MPH.

Considering the construction of the aft fuselage of the 727, it is unlikely that Cooper could stand upright or even close to it once he was past the stairs hinge point.

Ryan didn't say that...

Mac was travelling around 325 MPH and got out,, Cooper was about 100 miles less so he could have at that speed.. they did not need to slow the plane down, the problem with the stairs was they were not operated properly initially.

Mac had a small opening.. at that high speed

but the sled test at a much lower speed showed a man on the stairs could stand up though not fully open..

 

[FLYJACK 772]

7 hours ago, Kamkisky said:

Thanks. 

Cooper did ask them to slow down. That would indicate 15 degrees and landing gear down didn’t lowering the aft stairs fully.

At one point Cooper was looking at a handle he depressed to lower the stairs (which Tina showed him). Yet, the aft stairs were slightly open but not enough he could walk down standing up, Do you think that’s the correct scenario? 

I have this image of Cooper looking at the cracked but not fully descended stairs and having second thoughts. No one had ever tried this. He’d have to figure out how to get the stairs open enough to jump, not knowing for sure that was possible. The Cooper copycats knew it could be done. Cooper didn’t. 

Imagine having to put your weight on those steps to figure out the reaction of the stairs and plane? Dude was a criminal but he earned some of that money the hard way. 
 

This is wrong... the speed did not keep the airstairs from opening.

Mac was going 100 MPH more and got out.

[Robert99 60]

7 hours ago, Kamkisky said:

Thanks. 

Cooper did ask them to slow down. That would indicate 15 degrees and landing gear down didn’t lowering the aft stairs fully.

At one point Cooper was looking at a handle he depressed to lower the stairs (which Tina showed him). Yet, the aft stairs were slightly open but not enough he could walk down standing up, Do you think that’s the correct scenario? 

I have this image of Cooper looking at the cracked but not fully descended stairs and having second thoughts. No one had ever tried this. He’d have to figure out how to get the stairs open enough to jump, not knowing for sure that was possible. The Cooper copycats knew it could be done. Cooper didn’t. 

Imagine having to put your weight on those steps to figure out the reaction of the stairs and plane? Dude was a criminal but he earned some of that money the hard way. 
 

Cooper obviously had aeronautical experience and should have known that the airflow would keep the stairs from descending very much under their own weight.  Nevertheless, within minutes of Tina going to the cockpit he was calling about not being able to get the stairs opened.  Exactly what his problem was is not known but presumably Tina taught him enough to get the stairs unlocked.

So from about 7:45 PM until he jumped at about 8:11 PM Cooper was occupied with getting the money bag tied to himself and disposing of the brief case and whatever else he would not need in the jump.  He may have had to walk down past the stairs hinge point to create enough space to get rid of those items.

And he may have had to crawl down the stairs to create an opening big enough for him to jump.  So he may have had some new experiences in just getting out of the aircraft. 

 

[Robert99 60]

2 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

This is wrong... the speed did not keep the airstairs from opening.

Mac was going 100 MPH more and got out.

You are wrong.  The wind would keep the stairs up.  If anyone jumped from the 727 aft stairs at 325 MPH they would have to crawl through a relatively small opening at the end of the stairs.

[FLYJACK 772]

6 hours ago, olemisscub said:

Tina entered the cockpit at 7:40 according to the radio comms. Plane took off at 7:36

7:42 light was on.. this only means lever is moved from detent. not that stairs are open.

 

Tina sees stair light go on in cockpit. Probably about 8:00..

 

So, how can the stair light go on twice.. only one way,

7:42 Cooper moved the lever from the lock detent, light comes on, the stairs did not open because he didn't press the button and hold it forward. 

Cooper told the crew to slow down..  didn't make a difference because it wasn't the speed.

About 8:00-8:05 Cooper returned the lever to the locked detent and the light went out,

then tried to lower again, this time successfully

and Tina saw the stair light go on again.

8:05 Cooper said everything OK..

8:09-10 descends stairs..

About 8:11 jumps.

 

That light does not indicate fully extended, it indicates lever moved from locked detent position.

Edited Wednesday at 03:16 PM by FLYJACK

[FLYJACK 772]

12 minutes ago, Robert99 said:

You are wrong.  The wind would keep the stairs up.  If anyone jumped from the 727 aft stairs at 325 MPH they would have to crawl through a relatively small opening at the end of the stairs.

That is the point, Mac got out at a much much higher speed.. albeit a smaller opening.

The sled test showed that the stairs were open a few feet with no weight on them..

The fact that the stair light came on twice indicates that it wasn't the speed that held the stairs closed but Cooper's failure to operate them correctly initially.

The plane didn't need to slow down.. 

 

[CooperNWO305 158]

1 hour ago, FLYJACK said:

This rings a bell Ryan said I can't pronounce names... Ironic coming from Nicky and Ryan who can't pronounce Hahneman or Mazatlan.. is this some backwards world..  It must have come from somebody on FB who just made it up and you guys are trying to that lie it against me..

Not sure what Nicky's strategy is,, some reverse psychology to get me to go on podcast's by insulting me,, doesn't really make sense..

I have spoken live to 600 people twice and did a show that reaches 84 million people.. I don't talk about it because it isn't Cooper related.

So no, I am not afraid of media or speaking...

Nicky is usually doing someone else’s bidding or trying to ingratiate himself to someone else. Eddie Haskell. That’s probably what is going on, they want you on a podcast or at CooperCon. Try to make it look like they really care. You were on CNN. You found two awesome guitars. Nicky won’t be on TV unless it’s the Cheech and Chong hour. 
 

Most of us want you to stay. Very few people push back on the treehouse group. Facebook has become a John L. Skip Hall page now. Both Ryan’s and Eric’s. They want you to leave so they can have free rein. 
 

I’d write more but I’m still working this BOLO for a guy with a firearm who used his James Bond clearance to get medical records. 
 

 

[FLYJACK 772]

5 minutes ago, CooperNWO305 said:

Nicky is usually doing someone else’s bidding or trying to ingratiate himself to someone else. Eddie Haskell. That’s probably what is going on, they want you on a podcast or at CooperCon. Try to make it look like they really care. You were on CNN. You found two awesome guitars. Nicky won’t be on TV unless it’s the Cheech and Chong hour. 
 

Most of us want you to stay. Very few people push back on the treehouse group. Facebook has become a John L. Skip Hall page now. Both Ryan’s and Eric’s. They want you to leave so they can have free rein. 
 

I’d write more but I’m still working this BOLO for a guy with a firearm who used his James Bond clearance to get medical records. 
 

 

It is a really strange strategy to insult and block me from FB (when I never posted anything) while claiming I am afraid to talk outside of here.. 

IMO, FB is primarily a social platform and because of that it undermines the case with politics and groupthink.. it is better to have fewer people with a higher average case knowledge that far more with a lower average case knowledge. 

Most people are in this case for the social aspect,, nothing wrong with that but I am not. My goal is to solve thing for myself not to be praised or accepted by others.

I spoke to Tom K,,  and I won't speak for him, he can speak for himself.

but we agreed that the exact cause of the erosion is unknown whether in situ or in the river and an experiment needs to be done on a bundle to replicate rolling/tumbling of a bundle along the river bottom.. I am working on that, we don't have paper (cotton/linen) money in Canada anymore but you can get a cotton linen paper in the same ratio as money. So, it is a bit tricky without destroying $300 USD...

[Nicholas Broughton 78]

18 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

I know that is why I left for almost a year, I am not discussing the good new stuff though.

I should leave..

Oh so now that’s the reason you left hmmm. Might want to get your “story” straight. We all know you left because Ryan posted the Hahneman files. You’re not fooling anyone here, it’s comical at this point.

 

Edited Wednesday at 04:51 PM by Nicholas Broughton

[FLYJACK 772]

36 minutes ago, Nicholas Broughton said:

Oh so now that’s the reason you left hmmm. Might want to get your “story” straight. We all know you left because Ryan posted the Hahneman files. You’re not fooling anyone here, it’s comical at this point.

 

Nicky, you are confused.. very confused. Amazing that you have managed to conflate 3 entirely separate events. I am not surprised though.

Ryan posted the Hahneman files long before.. I left last year for almost a year. Not related.

That post you show was in reference even earlier when I left for a few weeks when by step brother suddenly passed away.. Ryan accused me of hiding.. clearly he and you are making claims that you have knowledge of..

 

So, you keep posting lies here to attack me for some bizarre reason.. you seem obsessed in discrediting me and not discussing the Cooper case. You must feel threatened to lie so much.

What is it you really want? Did you draw the short straw?

It is a bit annoying to have to respond to your toxic lies... I am sure FB is riddled with them.

 

Edited Wednesday at 05:25 PM by FLYJACK

[olemisscub 547]

6 minutes ago, CooperNWO305 said:

 

Most of us want you to stay. Very few people push back on the treehouse group. Facebook has become a John L. Skip Hall page now. Both Ryan’s and Eric’s. They want you to leave so they can have free rein. 

I think you’re projecting how you feel about me and others. I don’t wish anyone to be removed who has the capacity to bring value to the case. What you’re suggesting is actually the opposite of how I feel. I wish he was MORE visible. It would be great if he actually posted on FB or Reddit. I’ve privately invited him on my show, example. Things may get contentious between you and I or me and Flyjack, but that doesn’t mean I have some personal disdain or dislike for you or him. I just view it as a debate. I’m not always great at reigning in my personal snark and I’m guilty of personal attacks when my blood is up in the moment, which I regret in hindsight, but someone having a contrary opinion to me doesn’t mean I have genuine personal disdain for that person and wish they weren’t part of our community. That’s why CC has value. You can share beers with people you argue with. I liken it to criminal cases of mine where myself and the prosecutor will go have lunch together in the middle of a contentious trial. It’s just debate. 

To suggest that I’m afraid of Flyjack is silly. I actually enjoy being challenged because I enjoy debating and defending my theories. I also enjoy and value his insights. While I disagree vehemently with many of his stances and I’m not afraid to push back, he still brings much to the table and I respect his research skills. I’m having to rewrite an entire chapter of my book thanks to some of his challenges. I have a pretty major mea culpa to give my audience soon thanks to him. And I genuinely mean THANKS to him because I understand my responsibility as a “face” these days and the responsibility of writing a book that I hope stands the test of time. I’d much rather get the FACTS right than hold onto and promote an erroneous opinion simply because it was once mine and am afraid to admit to being wrong. I just want to get it right to the best of my understanding of the evidence. I’m able to be persuaded by others and by new evidence. That isn’t a sin. My only agenda is to try and get the case history and the case evidence correct for the sake of posterity. 

This is what I’ve never understood about the attacks you’ve made on me for changing my opinions on things. Isn’t it better if a researcher is able to be honest with themselves and is able to persuaded by other opinions and new research as opposed to being stuck for a decade with an immovable opinion? 

 

 

[Nicholas Broughton 78]

3 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

Nicky, you are confused.. very confused. Amazing that you have managed to conflate 3 entirely separate events. I am not surprised though.

Ryan posted the Hahneman files long before.. I left last year for almost a year. Not related.

That post you show was in reference even earlier when I left for a few weeks when by brother in law suddenly passed away.. Ryan accused me of hiding.. clearly he and you are making claims that you have knowledge of..

 

So, you keep posting lies here to attack me for some bizarre reason.. you seem obsessed in discrediting me and not discussing the Cooper case. You must feel threatened to lie so much.

What is it you really want? Did you draw the short straw?

It is a bit annoying to have to respond to your toxic lies... I am sure FB is riddled with them.

 

“I have never left for anything forum related, I have
left many times but for personal
stuff……”

[olemisscub 547]

58 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

It is a really strange strategy to insult and block me from FB (when I never posted anything) while claiming I am afraid to talk outside of here.. 

 

You’re not blocked on my FB group fwiw. Maybe Eric’s. Only person blocked is a bot account. 

[FLYJACK 772]

24 minutes ago, Nicholas Broughton said:

“I have never left for anything forum related, I have
left many times but for personal
stuff……”

That post was earlier.. responding to Ryan's false claim that I was hiding for two weeks... when my step brother passed.

Later, last year I left for a longer time.

Get your facts right. You have the time frames and context screwed up.

What are you afraid of, Nicky?? 

Edited Wednesday at 05:44 PM by FLYJACK

[FLYJACK 772]

6 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

You’re not blocked on my FB group fwiw. Maybe Eric’s. Only person blocked is a bot account. 

I was suddenly blocked or kicked out, can't access. I haven't tried to join again.

Edited Wednesday at 05:30 PM by FLYJACK

[olemisscub 547]

30 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

I was suddenly blocked or kicked out, can't access. I haven't tried to join again.

Wasn’t anything I did. 

[FLYJACK 772]

19 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

Wasn’t anything I did. 

Limbach?, I was definitely booted.. and never posted

[olemisscub 547]

4 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

Limbach?, I was definitely booted.. and never posted

I’ve had a few mods come and go. Doubt it was John. Not his style. I don’t boot actual Cooperites.