DB Cooper

[FLYJACK 769]

I see a bigger issue bubbling up...

What is a solve in this case now?

The DNA is a dead end..

The tie left by Cooper might not have been worn by him when the particles were deposited. OR, a vaguely matched environment.

Cooper is most certainly dead by now so no prosecution.

The only way left to put a suspect on the plane is the finger/palm prints, a match is a defacto solve. However, that may be impossible, the prints might not be Cooper or Cooper may not have prints available to match.

That leaves a circumstantial case, always a problem and can be dismissed with doubt.

I am still holding out hope for the prints.. but that isn't a guarantee. Without that I can't see a 100% solve.

 

 

[Kamkisky 11]

18 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

I see a bigger issue bubbling up...

What is a solve in this case now?

The DNA is a dead end..

The tie left by Cooper might not have been worn by him when the particles were deposited. OR, a vaguely matched environment.

Cooper is most certainly dead by now so no prosecution.

The only way left to put a suspect on the plane is the finger/palm prints, a match is a defacto solve. However, that may be impossible, the prints might not be Cooper or Cooper may not have prints available to match.

That leaves a circumstantial case, always a problem and can be dismissed with doubt.

I am still holding out hope for the prints.. but that isn't a guarantee. Without that I can't see a 100% solve.

 

 

There might never be a piece of evidence that would convict someone in court. Even the palm print could be someone else’s and the same with the hair slide. But there could be a series of circumstantial pieces of evidence that form a narrative that’s really solid. If someone can tell the correct story of Cooper maybe that springs more evidence loose.
 

The money being found in grandpa’s closet probably isn’t happening but the right story being told could prompt a kid or grandkid to find a photo or letter or something that collaborates the story. I think this is the best hope. Would everyone agree? Hell no. But we could have video, DNA evidence and a court conviction and some people still wouldn’t agree. If this case settles it does so with a generally agreed upon suspect, not universal acceptance. 
 

[Kamkisky 11]

Hey Ryan….Ive heard you say there are audio recording of the parajacking that are in the possession of one woman who worked at NWO. My question, Cooper is a federal crime and the statute of limitations has not expired due to the John Doe warrant…is it legal for a private citizen to withhold that evidence of a Federal crime? 

My guess is that it’s not legal unless the authorities have the evidence too. If that’s the case can the audio be FOIA’ed? And if not, can this lady be forced to turn over the audio legally? It’s literal evidence that could be used to solve the case in the modern era. 
 

 

Edited 21 hours ago by Kamkisky

[FLYJACK 769]

44 minutes ago, Kamkisky said:

Hey Ryan….Ive heard you say there are audio recording of the parajacking that are in the possession of one woman who worked at NWO. My question, Cooper is a federal crime and the statute of limitations has not expired due to the John Doe warrant…is it legal for a private citizen to withhold that evidence of a Federal crime? 

My guess is that it’s not legal unless the authorities have the evidence too. If that’s the case can the audio be FOIA’ed? And if not, can this lady be forced to turn over the audio legally? It’s literal evidence that could be used to solve the case in the modern era. 
 

 

um no,,

The FBI has the full transcript and we have a slightly edited one. The few redactions are not NORJAK related they claim.. having the audio would be interesting and could confirm those redactions but won't solve the case.

[FLYJACK 769]

2 hours ago, Kamkisky said:

There might never be a piece of evidence that would convict someone in court. Even the palm print could be someone else’s and the same with the hair slide. But there could be a series of circumstantial pieces of evidence that form a narrative that’s really solid. If someone can tell the correct story of Cooper maybe that springs more evidence loose.
 

The money being found in grandpa’s closet probably isn’t happening but the right story being told could prompt a kid or grandkid to find a photo or letter or something that collaborates the story. I think this is the best hope. Would everyone agree? Hell no. But we could have video, DNA evidence and a court conviction and some people still wouldn’t agree. If this case settles it does so with a generally agreed upon suspect, not universal acceptance. 
 

I forgot about the hair slide,, it is gone.

Finding money is real long shot..

IMO, the best hope is those prints but most people did not have palm prints taken back then. 

[Robert99 60]

3 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

 

IMO, the best hope is those prints but most people did not have palm prints taken back then. 

Yes, they did!

[FLYJACK 769]

8 hours ago, Robert99 said:

Yes, they did!

Not exactly, it wasn't standard for LEO's until years later. So, most "suspects" won't have palm prints on file but may have fingerprints. The FBI didn't have a palm print database until 2013, other agencies earlier, California 2004.

In the 70's it was not yet standard to take palm prints, they were only taken for special circumstances. It would be rare to have a suspect's palm print from that era.

[olemisscub 545]

8 hours ago, Robert99 said:

Yes, they did!

Palm prints weren’t taken by law enforcement as standard practice until LAPD and NYPD began doing it in 2003. 

As per Mike Davis (former paratrooper of the year and current military recruiter who I’ve interviewed on my channel), the military still don’t take palm prints and never have. 

Even if we had clean fingerprints, which we don’t, it would be unlikely to help unless his prints were in the FBI’s database. If he was in the Army or Air Force, his prints would have been destroyed in the 1973 St. Louis fire. If he was Navy or Marines, his prints would exist but they wouldn’t be in the NCIC database. So military prints are a dead end.

Ultimately, the prints are sadly useless IMO.

Concerning the case being solved, it’s hair slide or bust. If that was found then forensic genealogy could be applied and find an appropriate suspect. Even still, there would be those who would claim the hair didn’t come from Cooper (a logical possibility) and/or that it’s the wrong person who was found through genealogy. 

Absent some fantastical scenario where someone finds a large amount of the money in grandfather’s attic, and grandfather is a good match to the descriptions, I doubt there would ever be a suspect whom 95% of the community would agree is Cooper. 

[FLYJACK 769]

23 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

Palm prints weren’t taken by law enforcement as standard practice until LAPD and NYPD began doing it in 2003. 

As per Mike Davis (former paratrooper of the year and current military recruiter who I’ve interviewed on my channel), the military still don’t take palm prints and never have. 

Even if we had clean fingerprints, which we don’t, it would be unlikely to help unless his prints were in the FBI’s database. If he was in the Army or Air Force, his prints would have been destroyed in the 1973 St. Louis fire. If he was Navy or Marines, his prints would exist but they wouldn’t be in the NCIC database. So military prints are a dead end.

Ultimately, the prints are sadly useless IMO.

Concerning the case being solved, it’s hair slide or bust. If that was found then forensic genealogy could be applied and find an appropriate suspect. Even still, there would be those who would claim the hair didn’t come from Cooper (a logical possibility) and/or that it’s the wrong person who was found through genealogy. 

Absent some fantastical scenario where someone finds a large amount of the money in grandfather’s attic, and grandfather is a good match to the descriptions, I doubt there would ever be a suspect whom 95% of the community would agree is Cooper. 

No, prints aren't useless,, challenging but not useless.

[olemisscub 545]

8 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

No, prints aren't useless,, challenging but not useless.

Well, it’s not like the public will ever have access to them. It would take the FBI to try and do something with them using modern technology or releasing them to an outside source, which you and I both know they won’t do because they don’t care to spend any more resources on this.

And even still, there would still need to be available source prints within the NCIC database. Your suspect’s prints are in that database, so I understand where you’re coming from with this, but it would still take the FBI releasing those partial prints, which they won’t ever do. 

[FLYJACK 769]

56 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

Well, it’s not like the public will ever have access to them. It would take the FBI to try and do something with them using modern technology or releasing them to an outside source, which you and I both know they won’t do because they don’t care to spend any more resources on this.

And even still, there would still need to be available source prints within the NCIC database. Your suspect’s prints are in that database, so I understand where you’re coming from with this, but it would still take the FBI releasing those partial prints, which they won’t ever do. 

Not necessarily...  NCIC is not needed at all..

[Robert99 60]

3 hours ago, olemisscub said:

Palm prints weren’t taken by law enforcement as standard practice until LAPD and NYPD began doing it in 2003. 

As per Mike Davis (former paratrooper of the year and current military recruiter who I’ve interviewed on my channel), the military still don’t take palm prints and never have. 

Even if we had clean fingerprints, which we don’t, it would be unlikely to help unless his prints were in the FBI’s database. If he was in the Army or Air Force, his prints would have been destroyed in the 1973 St. Louis fire. If he was Navy or Marines, his prints would exist but they wouldn’t be in the NCIC database. So military prints are a dead end.

Ultimately, the prints are sadly useless IMO.

Concerning the case being solved, it’s hair slide or bust. If that was found then forensic genealogy could be applied and find an appropriate suspect. Even still, there would be those who would claim the hair didn’t come from Cooper (a logical possibility) and/or that it’s the wrong person who was found through genealogy. 

Absent some fantastical scenario where someone finds a large amount of the money in grandfather’s attic, and grandfather is a good match to the descriptions, I doubt there would ever be a suspect whom 95% of the community would agree is Cooper. 

You seem to be unaware that the fingerprints taken by the military eventually end up at the FBI.  The FBI used to be the agency that did background checks on military personnel, and they would need those fingerprints to do those checks.

As a personal example, my fingerprints have probably been in the FBI data base since I was about 16 years old.  I had to submit a complete fingerprint card in order to fly on military aircraft.

While the card was initially submitted to the military, it almost certainly ended up at the FBI.  In that time frame, fingerprints were about the only way to positively identify victims of aircraft accidents.

[olemisscub 545]

Just now, Robert99 said:

You seem to be unaware that the fingerprints taken by the military eventually end up at the FBI.  The FBI used to be the agency that did background checks on military personnel, and they would need those fingerprints to do those checks.

As a personal example, my fingerprints have probably been in the FBI data base since I was about 16 years old.  I had to submit a complete fingerprint card in order to fly on military aircraft.

While the card was initially submitted to the military, it almost certainly ended up at the FBI.  In that time frame, fingerprints were about the only way to positively identify victims of aircraft accidents.

Anyone who served in the Army or Air Force from 1914 until 1968 had their records, including fingerprints, destroyed in the St. Louis Fire. 

If what you’re saying is correct, which would mean MILLIONS of old military fingerprints were scanned and added to a database (I find this unlikely), they would only be from the Navy or Marines for those who served before 68. 

[olemisscub 545]

1 hour ago, FLYJACK said:

Not necessarily...  NCIC is not needed at all..

My ultimate point remains: the FBI aren’t going to release the Cooper prints to anyone outside the Bureau nor are they going to undertake any effort of their own at this point. 

[FLYJACK 769]

1 hour ago, Robert99 said:

You seem to be unaware that the fingerprints taken by the military eventually end up at the FBI.  The FBI used to be the agency that did background checks on military personnel, and they would need those fingerprints to do those checks.

As a personal example, my fingerprints have probably been in the FBI data base since I was about 16 years old.  I had to submit a complete fingerprint card in order to fly on military aircraft.

While the card was initially submitted to the military, it almost certainly ended up at the FBI.  In that time frame, fingerprints were about the only way to positively identify victims of aircraft accidents.

About 75% of the military records were lost in the fire but I was focussed on the palm prints.. rare to have them taken back then.

[FLYJACK 769]

1 hour ago, olemisscub said:

My ultimate point remains: the FBI aren’t going to release the Cooper prints to anyone outside the Bureau nor are they going to undertake any effort of their own at this point. 

How do you know they won't release the unidentified prints? 

They have released identified prints in the files,, 

We don't need the FBI to do anything other than release the prints.

[georger 267]

1 hour ago, FLYJACK said:

How do you know they won't release the unidentified prints? 

They have released identified prints in the files,, 

We don't need the FBI to do anything other than release the prints.

I thought you said Coop[er wiped his prints off everything, using the tie ? You have changed your mind ? 

[FLYJACK 769]

26 minutes ago, georger said:

I thought you said Coop[er wiped his prints off everything, using the tie ? You have changed your mind ? 

NO, I never said he wiped his prints off everything.. you are making it up.

I said he might have used the tie to wipe prints because many were smeared or partial..

They have some unidentified partials and a palm print from the seat area, those might not even be Cooper's.. it would seem he did obscure his prints in some way.

They also have unidentified prints from letters.

Edited 1 hour ago by FLYJACK

[FLYJACK 769]

Too much misinformation and bad ideas..

No, Cooper did not demand nonstop to Mexico City...

He demanded no stopping in US for any reason can refuel anywhere in Mexico.

He gave no instructions for path and did not know the route the plane was flying to Reno..  He DID NOT jump at BG.

The plane could have been anywhere along a 100+ mile wide line crossing near the Oregon border. From Mt Hood to over the Ocean... Cooper did not target PDX.

 

[Robert99 60]

3 hours ago, olemisscub said:

Anyone who served in the Army or Air Force from 1914 until 1968 had their records, including fingerprints, destroyed in the St. Louis Fire. 

If what you’re saying is correct, which would mean MILLIONS of old military fingerprints were scanned and added to a database (I find this unlikely), they would only be from the Navy or Marines for those who served before 68. 

That is not entirely correct.  Quite a few of those records were not actually lost.  They were recoverable from other sources that were not in the fire.  This means that there was more than one copy of many of those records and they were not in St. Louis or the fire.

For instance, do you remember carbon paper?  The military thrives on duplicate copies.

[FLYJACK 769]

5 minutes ago, Robert99 said:

That is not entirely correct.  Quite a few of those records were not actually lost.  They were recoverable from other sources that were not in the fire.  This means that there was more than one copy of many of those records and they were not in St. Louis or the fire.

For instance, do you remember carbon paper?  The military thrives on duplicate copies.

The fire isn't the key point..

The point was PALM prints were rarely taken back then. So, obtaining a suspect's palm print is very challenging.

[olemisscub 545]

2 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

 

They have released identified prints in the files,, 

Prints of known deceased people. 

[FLYJACK 769]

6 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

Prints of known deceased people. 

Sure,, the prints are unidentified so there is no reason not to release them.