DB Cooper

[c99acer 8]

18 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

This is the reason sketch B was created..  

Sketch A looked too young and lacked 'latin" complexion.

Agents were wasting time with suspect leads that were too young or the wrong complexion. 

 

 

Are you sure these dates match when the second sketch (your sketch A) came out? Only the "Initial Sketch" was out, especially on the 25th. Date on the second sketch (your A) shows Nov 30, 1971, from the FBI files I find.

[olemisscub 532]

28 minutes ago, c99acer said:

Are you sure these dates match when the second sketch (your sketch A) came out? Only the "Initial Sketch" was out, especially on the 25th. Date on the second sketch (your A) shows Nov 30, 1971, from the FBI files I find.

The first Comp A came out 11/27/71. Those two passenger statements are referencing Comp A. That quote from the stewardess is from Alice Hancock commenting on the Initial Sketch. 

[FLYJACK 767]

56 minutes ago, c99acer said:

Are you sure these dates match when the second sketch (your sketch A) came out? Only the "Initial Sketch" was out, especially on the 25th. Date on the second sketch (your A) shows Nov 30, 1971, from the FBI files I find.

Yes, two of them are about sketch B..

But the stew comments are not the cause for sketch B, the real point is that the FBI was wasting time with suspects who were too young or not a swarthy/latin complexion. They felt the sketch was not getting good tips..

It was suggested to have the sketch artist reconnect with the stews to create a better sketch.

[FLYJACK 767]

5 hours ago, olemisscub said:

I gave this a lot of thought when I was making my matches video. My general rule of thumb is that in the case of a conflict, I go with the earlier reference. We've got Tina saying "HE had ANOTHER book of matches...". Had Tina given him a matchbook from the plane, I don't see any reason for her to even say this to the FBI and to go into detail describing it. Additionally, Cooper was clearly a heavy smoker and soon ran out of matches from ICS. To think he didn't have additional matches doesn't make too much sense to me. 

Also, the rest of that bit in Tosaw's narrative goes against her 302 as well. He says the first matchbook was put into the ashtray yet Tina in her 302 says it was the seat pocket. Tosaw says that Cooper retrieved it from the ashtray yet Tina says that she is the one who retrieved it from the seat pocket. 

Finally, we have the FBI themselves using the Sky Chef matchbook in an attempt to backtrack Cooper. So it was clearly their understanding that Tina was telling them that Cooper brought the matches on board with him. Obviously if she had given him those matches then they wouldn't have undertaken such an effort.  

 

This is typical for this case.. vague and inconclusive.

I don't know what to think.. the FBI believed the matchbook came from elsewhere but if Tina grabbed another matchbook then there were three... if Tosaw was accurate on that point.

The FBI could have misunderstood Tina.. 

But, the bottom line researching the Sky Chefs matchbook is that they were likely available in hotels, lounges and on flights..  if it was not from Tina or Portland Airport then it suggests Cooper flew into Portland and he was not a local.

 

 

[olemisscub 532]

2 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

 

But, the bottom line researching the Sky Chefs matchbook is that they were likely available in hotels, lounges and on flights..  if it was not from Tina or Portland Airport then it suggests Cooper flew into Portland and he was not a local.

 

 

Can't see any reason to negate them coming from PDX. Broer's recent research shows that Sky Chef had a coffee shop, cocktail lounge, and the Port West restaurant all in the same area....right next to the NWO counter. Seeing as how we'll never know where the matches came from given the number of potential places he could have picked them up, it's really a moot point. Same goes for the ICS matches. Far too ubiquitous of an item to point us in any direction. 

 

[FLYJACK 767]

27 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

Can't see any reason to negate them coming from PDX. Broer's recent research shows that Sky Chef had a coffee shop, cocktail lounge, and the Port West restaurant all in the same area....right next to the NWO counter. Seeing as how we'll never know where the matches came from given the number of potential places he could have picked them up, it's really a moot point. Same goes for the ICS matches. Far too ubiquitous of an item to point us in any direction. 

 

Right.. so smokers grab matches when they buy cigarettes..

The ICS matchbook was depleted before the Raleigh's, not grabbed when the Raleigh's were purchased, that means Cooper likely bought the Raleigh's and grabbed the Sky Chefs matchbook at the same time (if it didn't come from Tina). But, Cooper paid for his drink with a 20... 

Cooper likely bought the Raleigh's and grabbed the Sky Chefs matchbook at the same place.

[CooperNWO305 158]

How many cigs to a pack? Would he need to buy more cigs? Would he buy those from a machine or a seller at the airport? Would he carry extra packs of cigs? Seems to me he would want to stay pretty concealed. I’d be curious to see pics of any cigarette machines or vendors. 

[FLYJACK 767]

26 minutes ago, CooperNWO305 said:

How many cigs to a pack? Would he need to buy more cigs? Would he buy those from a machine or a seller at the airport? Would he carry extra packs of cigs? Seems to me he would want to stay pretty concealed. I’d be curious to see pics of any cigarette machines or vendors. 

20 cigarettes per pack and 20 matches per book..

[olemisscub 532]

On 6/3/2025 at 10:08 AM, CooperNWO305 said:

How many cigs to a pack? Would he need to buy more cigs? Would he buy those from a machine or a seller at the airport? Would he carry extra packs of cigs? Seems to me he would want to stay pretty concealed. I’d be curious to see pics of any cigarette machines or vendors. 

From Broer. This is from a video taken inside PDX in Dec 71

 

 

Edited Wednesday at 03:53 PM by olemisscub

[FLYJACK 767]

1 hour ago, olemisscub said:

From Broer. This is from a video taken inside PDX in Dec 71

 

 

Interesting.. here is a task...

Identify all the 13 brands available.

[olemisscub 532]

6 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

Interesting.. here is a task...

Identify all the 13 brands available.

Do we need to though? They sold Raleigh's. That's all we need to know isn't it?

[FLYJACK 767]

12 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

Do we need to though? They sold Raleigh's. That's all we need to know isn't it?

No, we don't know that Raleigh's were his go to brand..

If Cooper regularly smoked a brand not available or potentially sold out he may have defaulted to Raleigh's...

I'll go through them when I get more time...  I found another missing guitar,, a big one.

[olemisscub 532]

2 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

No, we don't know that Raleigh's were his go to brand..

If Cooper regularly smoked a brand not available or potentially sold out he may have defaulted to Raleigh's...

I'll go through them when I get more time...  I found another missing guitar,, a big one.

L to r it looks like Kool, Marlboro Menthol, Lucky Strike, L&M, Kent, Salem, Parliament, Pall Mall, Raleigh, Marlboro 100’s, Bel Air, Embassy, Viceroy 

No Benson and Hedges 

and I hope you found McCartney’s Hofner bass. Keith Richards’ Les Paul would be cool too. Randy Rhoads’ guitar is also still missing. 

[FLYJACK 767]

3 hours ago, olemisscub said:

L to r it looks like Kool, Marlboro Menthol, Lucky Strike, L&M, Kent, Salem, Parliament, Pall Mall, Raleigh, Marlboro 100’s, Bel Air, Embassy, Viceroy 

No Benson and Hedges 

and I hope you found McCartney’s Hofner bass. Keith Richards’ Les Paul would be cool too. Randy Rhoads’ guitar is also still missing. 

I have a couple different ones..  but haven't finished.

Hahneman's regular brand was not B&H.. He probably ordered them because they were a premium brand not available in Honduras.

 

McCartney's Hofner was found about a year ago in a local pub owner's attic.

 

Edited Wednesday at 11:24 PM by FLYJACK

[FLYJACK 767]

4 hours ago, olemisscub said:

L to r it looks like Kool, Marlboro Menthol, Lucky Strike, L&M, Kent, Salem, Parliament, Pall Mall, Raleigh, Marlboro 100’s, Bel Air, Embassy, Viceroy 

No Benson and Hedges 

and I hope you found McCartney’s Hofner bass. Keith Richards’ Les Paul would be cool too. Randy Rhoads’ guitar is also still missing. 

Not Parliament..  or Embassy..

1 Kool

2 Marlboro menthol

3 Lucky Strike

4 L & M

5 Kent

6 Salem

7 Newport Menthol

8 Pall Mall

9 Viceroy ??

10 Marlboro 100 (lights?)

11 Belair

12 Tareyton

13

 

Doesn't look like the machine offers Raleigh's.. the Raleigh/Belair sign at top is just an ad, the TRUE cigs aren't offered either.

At least at the time this image was taken.

Edited Thursday at 12:28 AM by FLYJACK

[dudeman17 346]

9 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

I found another missing guitar,, a big one.

??  Are you going to leave us hanging again?

-----------------

Don't see Winston either.

[Kamkisky 1]

Hi all….

New to this forum. I post at Reddit on Cooper. 

I’ll jump right in, a legit smoker would be sure to arrive at PDX with smokes. Heavy smokers don’t leave it to chance, they never run out. That’s the difference between a casual and hardcore smoker. While the photo of the vending machine is interesting, Cooper came prepared. He would have had a day or two worth of smokes on him. 
 

Shifting gears, there was a very interesting parachute discussion recently on here. It seems there are two schools of thought, one being Cossey was always straight with the FBI about it being an NB6 even if he told reporters more and more nonsense over the years. The other school seems to believe Cossey made a mistake originally with the FBI thinking the chutes all came from the skydiving center and he never corrected it, thus it’s likely not an NB6. Is this basically the situation? 
 

What is the chute at the museum in Seattle? And what did Cossey tell the FBI the chute was? We have one of the two chutes so if Cossey was right about that chute immediately he is likely right about the other. But if Cossey’s story on that chute doesn’t line up with the chute in the museum there a problem.

 

Edited Thursday at 04:34 AM by Kamkisky

[FLYJACK 767]

8 hours ago, Kamkisky said:

Hi all….

New to this forum. I post at Reddit on Cooper. 

I’ll jump right in, a legit smoker would be sure to arrive at PDX with smokes. Heavy smokers don’t leave it to chance, they never run out. That’s the difference between a casual and hardcore smoker. While the photo of the vending machine is interesting, Cooper came prepared. He would have had a day or two worth of smokes on him. 
 

Shifting gears, there was a very interesting parachute discussion recently on here. It seems there are two schools of thought, one being Cossey was always straight with the FBI about it being an NB6 even if he told reporters more and more nonsense over the years. The other school seems to believe Cossey made a mistake originally with the FBI thinking the chutes all came from the skydiving center and he never corrected it, thus it’s likely not an NB6. Is this basically the situation? 
 

What is the chute at the museum in Seattle? And what did Cossey tell the FBI the chute was? We have one of the two chutes so if Cossey was right about that chute immediately he is likely right about the other. But if Cossey’s story on that chute doesn’t line up with the chute in the museum there a problem.

 

This parachute thing is complex,,,  Cossey claimed the chute left behind was described to him after the plane landed, but not confirmed anywhere.

He was interviewed in person at the FBI office on the 26th.. the FBI had the packing card for the Museum chute. There was no detailed description from Cossey for the museum chute early, it was from Hayden. Cossey even later described it as his sport rig and that it was returned to him. It was not.

Hayden described the missing back chute as olive drab and tan cotton harness.. Cossey described it as sage green nylon and sage green nylon harness, NB6's are sage green.. not olive drab. Also, the details from the packing card for the missing back chute don't match Cossey's description.

But the key is that Cossey had nothing to do with obtaining the chutes from Hayden. He did not know the back chutes were from Hayden until days later. Cossey was contacted and arraigned for all 4 chutes to be picked up from Issaquah. Emrich was to send all 4 but was contacted and told they had secured the backs and only send the two fronts.. Cossey would not be aware of this and assumed his back chutes were used by Cooper. He would have learned of his error within a day or so, but never corrected it. He never supplied his packing records, there is no corroboration for Cossey's NB6 claim.

 

Cossey interview circa 2010.. Cossey is not telling the truth, he telling us what he believed at the time.

Edited Thursday at 01:13 PM by FLYJACK

[FLYJACK 767]

The cigarette vending machine is a dead end... we can't determine anything from it.

It didn't even have Raleigh's at the time of the image..  (just the Raleigh ad)

 

BTW,, I have never been a smoker but my father was and I remember him using these machines,, I have a vague recollection of matches being available through one of the selections,,  could that last one #13 be matches???

[FLYJACK 767]

11 hours ago, dudeman17 said:

??  Are you going to leave us hanging again?

-----------------

Don't see Winston either.

It is a big one... 60 years gone. it was just recovered but I am leaving it up to them to go public with the story. 

Edited Thursday at 02:33 PM by FLYJACK

[FLYJACK 767]

Cigarettes were available on plane flights.. 

Cooper didn't get them from flight 305... he could have obtained them and the matches from a previous flight. Sky Chefs was owned by United Airlines.

There was a United Airlines flight on a 727 to Portland earlier in the day..

What if Cooper took a UAL flight on a 727 to Portland earlier in the day but aborted the hijacking, then in Portland took the opportunity to try flight 305 to Seattle. He never left the airport.

[Robert99 55]

13 hours ago, Kamkisky said:

 

What is the chute at the museum in Seattle? 

 

The parachute at the WSHM is absolutely NOT an NB-6.  It is simply a collection of WW2 surplus parachute components made by different manufacturers and apparently assembled by Cossey.

Specifically, the harness is NOT an NB-6 harness.  The container is NOT an NB-6 container.  The pilot chute is NOT an NB-6 pilot chute.  The canopy is NOT an NB-6 canopy.  Even the NB-6 ripcord would not work with the WSHM parachute.

There are pictures of a genuine NB-6 parachute on Sluggo's website which is available, or at least used to be, somewhere on this site.

I used a genuine NB-6 parachute rig in the 1960s/1970s time frame when flying aircraft with extremely cramped cockpits.  At this moment, I have a genuine NB-6 harness, container, pilot chute, and ripcord in my garage.

THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO EVIDENCE THAT AN NB-6 PARACHUTE WAS INVOLVED IN THE COOPER HIJACKING.  This is simply a myth that has a life of its own and that gets recycled ever year or so.

 

On the matter of Sky Chef match books, in the 1960s/1970s time frame they were available on just about every airline from coast-to-coast and border-to-border.  They would accompany meal services that included a small packet of four cigarettes from different companies.  

Edited Thursday at 06:07 PM by Robert99

[FLYJACK 767]

29 minutes ago, Robert99 said:

The parachute at the WSHM is absolutely NOT an NB-6.  It is simply a collection of WW2 surplus parachute components made by different manufacturers and apparently assembled by Cossey.

Specifically, the harness is NOT an NB-6 harness.  The container is NOT an NB-6 container.  The pilot chute is NOT an NB-6 pilot chute.  The canopy is NOT an NB-6 canopy.  Even the NB-6 ripcord would not work with the WSHM parachute.

There are pictures of a genuine NB-6 parachute on Sluggo's website which is available, or at least used to be, somewhere on this site.

I used a genuine NB-6 parachute rig in the 1960s/1970s time frame when flying aircraft with extremely cramped cockpits.  At this moment, I have a genuine NB-6 harness, container, pilot chute, and ripcord in my garage.

THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO EVIDENCE THAT AN NB-6 PARACHUTE WAS INVOLVED IN THE COOPER HIJACKING.  This is simply a myth that has a life of its own and that gets recycled ever year or so.

 

On the matter of Sky Chef match books, in the 1960s/1970s time frame they were available on just about every airline from coast-to-coast and border-to-border.  They would accompany meal services that included a small packet of four cigarettes from different companies.  

yup, I have identified the museum rig container as an early 1940's Pioneer P1 B-24... it was primarily sold to the public but some military pilots used it. The canopy and harness were updated.

The NB-6's were a mid 50's rig.. Hayden thought his chutes were similar.. So the chute container Cooper used was likely a WW2 era olive drab military version... there were many very similar rigs manufactured.

Edited Thursday at 06:25 PM by FLYJACK

[FunnyStuff 8]

On 6/3/2025 at 10:36 AM, FLYJACK said:

20 cigarettes per pack and 20 matches per book..

Sure, but he presented at least 2 matchbooks on flight 305.  If anything, the abundance of matches available vs the number of cigs suggests he did not acquire both at the same time.  I wasn't alive in 1971 but I understand that matchbooks were routinely passed around by company and solicitors of the time and given the fact both matchbooks produced by Cooper had advertisements printed on them I'd say the most likely scenario is he just picked them up in passing somewhere and had them available already when purchasing his Raleighs.

 

[FLYJACK 767]

30 minutes ago, FunnyStuff said:

Sure, but he presented at least 2 matchbooks on flight 305.  If anything, the abundance of matches available vs the number of cigs suggests he did not acquire both at the same time.  I wasn't alive in 1971 but I understand that matchbooks were routinely passed around by company and solicitors of the time and given the fact both matchbooks produced by Cooper had advertisements printed on them I'd say the most likely scenario is he just picked them up in passing somewhere and had them available already when purchasing his Raleighs.

 

You missed the point.. people typically pick up matchbooks when they buy cigarettes.

The first matchbook ran out before the cigarette pack. So, it was an "old" book. not grabbed with the pack of Raleigh's. 

If the Sky Chefs book was not supplied by Tina then it was a new book supplied by Cooper and he likely picked it up when he last bought cigarettes.

So, it is most likely the Sky Chef matchbook (if not supplied by Tina) was grabbed when Cooper bought the Raleigh's..

And Sky Chefs were available in Airport lounges, hotels and on many airlines flights as well Cigarettes. 

If Tina didn't supply that Sky Chefs book and Cooper didn't buy the Raleigh's at the Portland airport then it indicates he probably flew into Portland.