DB Cooper

[dudeman17 344]

  On 4/17/2025 at 1:29 PM, FLYJACK said:

The tie... I now believe... it was obtained just prior to and only used for the hijacking...  and it wasn't from a thrift shop.

I'm not sure I follow this. The tie was not new, right? If he got it right before the hijacking, doesn't that make it more likely it was from a thrift shop? Where else would he have gotten it? If he got it from someone he knew, couldn't that identify him if the person recognized it?

[FLYJACK 760]

  On 4/22/2025 at 3:21 AM, dudeman17 said:

I'm not sure I follow this. The tie was not new, right? If he got it right before the hijacking, doesn't that make it more likely it was from a thrift shop? Where else would he have gotten it? If he got it from someone he knew, couldn't that identify him if the person recognized it?

Not new, it was circa 1964/65... it was very cheap new, very dirty and had a hole in it..

Cooper discarded it,, while taking the other items.

I have a theory about where it came from.

Edited April 22 by FLYJACK

[dudeman17 344]

  On 4/22/2025 at 3:58 AM, FLYJACK said:

I have a theory about where it came from.

Well, are you going to tell us? Did he pull it out of a trash can somewhere?

[FLYJACK 760]

  On 4/22/2025 at 7:45 AM, dudeman17 said:

Well, are you going to tell us? Did he pull it out of a trash can somewhere?

No.

[FLYJACK 760]

The tie examined by the FBI was very dirty, it had lots of dust in the knot area, that indicates it wasn't worn for a while, it had a pin hole in it and we know it was covered in those unique particles. It was $1.50 new and generally a work tie.  Cooper was careful to take items with him but left the tie,, that suggests he discarded it. 

The tie had a pin hole, since a pin and a clip are not worn together that indicates it was worn with a pin.. possibly a company pin. The cheap alligator clip may have been added just before the hijacking.

Like the TBAR money, it will never be solved 100%.. best we will get is theories.

My theory based on known evidence and some undisclosed evidence is that Cooper obtained the tie just before the hijacking and discarded it having no connection to it. 

The tie particles may have nothing to do with Cooper. There is no evidence to indicate Cooper was the person who wore the tie from circa 1964/65 when the particles were deposited to NORJAK.

[georger 258]

  On 4/23/2025 at 1:43 AM, FLYJACK said:

The tie examined by the FBI was very dirty, it had lots of dust in the knot area, that indicates it wasn't worn for a while, it had a pin hole in it and we know it was covered in those unique particles. It was $1.50 new and generally a work tie.  Cooper was careful to take items with him but left the tie,, that suggests he discarded it. 

The tie had a pin hole, since a pin and a clip are not worn together that indicates it was worn with a pin.. possibly a company pin. The cheap alligator clip may have been added just before the hijacking.

Like the TBAR money, it will never be solved 100%.. best we will get is theories.

My theory based on known evidence and some undisclosed evidence is that Cooper obtained the tie just before the hijacking and discarded it having no connection to it. 

The tie particles may have nothing to do with Cooper. There is no evidence to indicate Cooper was the person who wore the tie from circa 1964/65 when the particles were deposited to NORJAK.

The tie and Cooper had to connect 'somewhere'. The tie particles suggest a unique tie history?  For all anyone knows Cooper found the tie at the airport and appropriated it? Is that even possible ?

[CooperNWO305 158]

  On 4/23/2025 at 6:57 PM, georger said:

The tie and Cooper had to connect 'somewhere'. The tie particles suggest a unique tie history?  For all anyone knows Cooper found the tie at the airport and appropriated it? Is that even possible ?

We don’t know how unique a history the tie had. There have been very few if any legitimate control items tested. I don’t think the tie folks want to test a bunch of items, it will ruin the fun and there won’t be anything to talk about at CooperCon. EU wouldn’t have much to talk about if we found out the particles could have come from some industrial park. 

[georger 258]

  On 4/23/2025 at 7:25 PM, CooperNWO305 said:

We don’t know how unique a history the tie had. There have been very few if any legitimate control items tested. I don’t think the tie folks want to test a bunch of items, it will ruin the fun and there won’t be anything to talk about at CooperCon. EU wouldn’t have much to talk about if we found out the particles could have come from some industrial park. 

Damned good thing none of the tie particles come from the Moon! Ulis would be looking/talking about Astronauts and the like... !

Edited April 23 by georger

[CooperNWO305 158]

Ryan’s latest outburst below. From Reddit. A conversation about William Smith. I’m sure if he even makes a video that he will leave out all sorts of information. 
 

Time to make a video on this. You were so certain that I was in some sort of cahoots with his daughter. I wasn’t before, but I’m pretty damn sure about to be. I’m going to reach out and have her on my show. WJS is finished. He’s about to become a punch line for a bad suspect just like Kenny or Barb.

[FLYJACK 760]

  On 4/23/2025 at 8:23 PM, CooperNWO305 said:

Ryan’s latest outburst below. From Reddit. A conversation about William Smith. I’m sure if he even makes a video that he will leave out all sorts of information. 
 

 

Time to make a video on this. You were so certain that I was in some sort of cahoots with his daughter. I wasn’t before, but I’m pretty damn sure about to be. I’m going to reach out and have her on my show. WJS is finished. He’s about to become a punch line for a bad suspect just like Kenny or Barb.

What can she add to anything Cooper.. Ryan would be weaponizing his channel for a personal attack...  nothing to do with the case. 

He keeps flogging sketch A and the Michael Jackson nose.. look at Murphy, many witnesses said the best of hundreds they've seen in glasses and hat, NO SMALL NOSE. He just ignores evidence contrary to his opinions... Murphy, Skip's unique facial features, Cossey's descriptive serial lying, Gunther's book all made up, Vordahl nonsense....  he even lied about Hahneman's teeth but never admitted or corrected it. Once these wrong things get traction it is nearly impossible to pull them back. And the crowd cries out for more...

Rose did the Hahneman sketch and guess what, the nose is way too small.. YES, Ryan's hero, the best sketch artist who ever lived got it wrong... 

A Rose is a Rose but a Nose is NOT a Nose when it is too small...

 

What was it, a Chinese Buffet...  Pick and Chews your confirmation bias..

 

Maybe, we need to do some debunking videos.. The Vortex is going backward's with these bad suspect's, manipulated evidence and poorly reasoned theories.

 

 

 

[FLYJACK 760]

  On 4/23/2025 at 8:08 PM, georger said:

Damned good thing none of the tie particles come from the Moon! Ulis would be looking/talking about Astronauts and the like... !

Speaking of the moon.. Here is a matching tie and clip from a NASA launch..

The guy is a swarthy IBM contractor, I found his name but don't need to say because he isn't Cooper and he doesn't have the Michael Jackson nose.

[olemisscub 527]

  On 4/23/2025 at 9:26 PM, FLYJACK said:

he even lied about Hahneman's teeth but never admitted or corrected it.

 

Nope. I vociferously begged for mercy from you already. Timestamped:

 

[CooperNWO305 158]

  On 4/23/2025 at 9:26 PM, FLYJACK said:

What can she add to anything Cooper.. Ryan would be weaponizing his channel for a personal attack...  nothing to do with the case. 

He keeps flogging sketch A and the Michael Jackson nose.. look at Murphy, many witnesses said the best of hundreds they've seen in glasses and hat, NO SMALL NOSE. He just ignores evidence contrary to his opinions... Murphy, Skip's unique facial features, Cossey's descriptive serial lying, Gunther's book all made up, Vordahl nonsense....  he even lied about Hahneman's teeth but never admitted or corrected it. Once these wrong things get traction it is nearly impossible to pull them back. And the crowd cries out for more...

Rose did the Hahneman sketch and guess what, the nose is way too small.. YES, Ryan's hero, the best sketch artist who ever lived got it wrong... 

A Rose is a Rose but a Nose is NOT a Nose when it is too small...

 

What was it, a Chinese Buffet...  Pick and Chews your confirmation bias..

 

Maybe, we need to do some debunking videos.. The Vortex is going backward's with these bad suspect's, manipulated evidence and poorly reasoned theories.

 

 

 

She was 6 in 1971. Ryan always leaves that part out and then uses misdirection to make some other aspect look important then spends time debunking that. 
 

Fly, you and I clearly enjoy the hobby, the chase, figuring things out. So if someone wants to attack my favorite baseball player or my favorite, go ahead, I’m still going to be interested in them. Ryan attacks suspects. He has done it relentlessly with Hahneman when he was called out by Fly. Same thing when I called out issues with Vordhal. All of a sudden there was a swell of focus on Smith. 
 

I’ve said before that you could have video on the plane and yet this won’t be solved to everyone’s satisfaction. So me spending time on Gunther and Smith whether as one or separate lines of effort is irrelevant. I’ll keep doing it even with no final end. I do think we will know who licked the stamp. My public efforts now usually entail trying to bring new people in or people who are not part of the Facebook clubs. And, calling out what is frankly dishonesty and integrity issues that I see from Ryan and a few others. 
 

Ryan does not have the juice to get Smith’s daughter on his show. And if he does, it will be the same bias as his other videos. Not to mention you still have a 6 year old who does not want her father to be DB Cooper. 
 

I assume Ryan is honest and has integrity in his regular life, he is just lacking in it in the Cooper case. He’s probably a good defense attorney. Juries don’t always consist of three cream of the crop, so his skills like logical fallacies, gaslighting, misdirection, red herrings, etc. are probably very useful in convincing them. 
 

Every time Smith, Hahneman, Gunther, Vordahl, Hall come up there is a general lack of forthrightness from Ryan and a few others. And people wonder why we don’t like sharing our research with others anymore. 

[FLYJACK 760]

  On 4/23/2025 at 10:05 PM, olemisscub said:

Nope. I vociferously begged for mercy from you already. Timestamped:

 

You still lied,,  3rd time for the same issue.. you are a misinformation machine.

You said he was missing half his upper teeth.. false

You said he was missing upper and lower teeth... false

Now, you say he was missing only his upper teeth and that is just as bad.. false/misleading

 

I had that FBI document many years ago but I also had a pic of him showing his upper teeth with none missing... so, it took me 6 years to reconcile it. You jumped on it to falsely eliminate and trash Hahneman and me by proxy but it wasn't what you thought.. Your bias was front running the facts.

The FBI file said missing several upper side teeth... turns out it was the bicuspids which are commonly removed for braces and crooked teeth.. they are down the side in front of the molars.. only one witness noticed it and knew teeth well... they also commented on his odd lip...  When the bicuspid is removed the teeth move back to fill the space and the lower lip often protrudes slightly..

So, those missing bicuspids are not noticeable unless you know teeth well. One person noticed it out of maybe 50..

 

So, Ryan with full arrogance is still spreading misinformation... he claims he wants to get things right,, clearly false.

Mocking Hahneman from a position of ignorance shows how inept he is...

 

and I never said Cossey made it up. You, as usual misrepresent my position.. His initial description of the chutes was an assumption, an error, he legit believed his back chutes were taken from Issaquah..  When he realized his error he never corrected it.

Appreciate a correction on that as well as the teeth.. if you want to get things right.

 

Edited April 24 by FLYJACK

[CooperNWO305 158]

  On 4/24/2025 at 12:14 AM, FLYJACK said:

You still lied,,  3rd time for the same issue.. you are a misinformation machine.

You said he was missing half his upper teeth.. false

You said he was missing upper and lower teeth... false

Now, you say he was missing only his upper teeth and that is just as bad.. false/misleading

 

I had that FBI document many yeas ago but also had a pic of him showing his upper teeth with none missing... so, it took me 6 years to reconcile it. You jumped on it to falsely eliminate and trash Hahneman and me by proxy but it wasn't what you thought.. Your bias was front running the facts.

The FBI file said missing several upper side teeth... turns out it was the bicuspids which are commonly removed for braces and crooked teeth.. they are down the side in front of the molars.. only one witness noticed it and knew teeth well... they also commented on his odd lip...  When the bicuspid is removed the teeth move back to fill the space and the lower lip often protrudes slightly..

So, those missing bicuspids are not noticeable unless you know teeth well. One person noticed it out of maybe 50..

 

So, Ryan with full arrogance is still spreading misinformation... he claims he wants to get things right,, clearly false.

Mocking Hahneman from a position of ignorance shows how inept he is...

 

 

 

I can’t find anything in my notes about any witness saying thin or small for the nose. I think Alice maybe used the term small. Can someone confirm? 

[georger 258]

  On 4/23/2025 at 9:31 PM, FLYJACK said:

Speaking of the moon.. Here is a matching tie and clip from a NASA launch..

The guy is a swarthy IBM contractor, I found his name but don't need to say because he isn't Cooper and he doesn't have the Michael Jackson nose.

good one ---

[FLYJACK 760]

  On 4/24/2025 at 3:36 AM, georger said:

good one ---

1969 Apollo 11 launch Kennedy Space Center...  

[FLYJACK 760]

  On 4/24/2025 at 12:26 AM, CooperNWO305 said:

I can’t find anything in my notes about any witness saying thin or small for the nose. I think Alice maybe used the term small. Can someone confirm? 

Here it is.. Alice said "nose small" in a later interview to determine a sketch... the context is to create a sketch. She also said HEAD OVAL, NOT TRIANGULAR.... She didn't mention the nose in prior interviews or any other witness claim it. Alice is probably responsible for the nose error on sketch A.. She also said she had given all information prior.. never mentioned a small nose.

Small is relative and subjective,,, bridge? flair? base? length? and compared to what?

 

 

Edited April 24 by FLYJACK

[georger 258]

  On 4/22/2025 at 7:45 AM, dudeman17 said:

Well, are you going to tell us? Did he pull it out of a trash can somewhere?

Was there a machine shop or repair area at the airport that Cooper could have picked the tie up in just prior to going to the boarding area where he buys his ticket?

Edited April 24 by georger

[FLYJACK 760]

  On 4/24/2025 at 8:05 PM, georger said:

Was there a machine shop or repair area at the airport that Cooper could have picked the tie up in just prior to going to the boarding area where he buys his ticket?

IMO, the tie particles best match an electronics environment..

Tom was close when he suggested Tektronix. 

[dudeman17 344]

Some time ago somebody suggested that the tie particles might be explained by it being exposed to the jet exhaust coming in the back of the plane. Is that feasible? Long shot, does anyone know what became of that plane? If it's sitting an aircraft boneyard somewhere with the same seats in it, maybe a swatch of material could be obtained to test for similar particles. Less of a longshot, Skydive Perris flies that DC-9 with the back airstair door off. Maybe a swatch of one of their back seats could be tested.

[FLYJACK 760]

  On 4/25/2025 at 12:32 AM, dudeman17 said:

Some time ago somebody suggested that the tie particles might be explained by it being exposed to the jet exhaust coming in the back of the plane. Is that feasible? Long shot, does anyone know what became of that plane? If it's sitting an aircraft boneyard somewhere with the same seats in it, maybe a swatch of material could be obtained to test for similar particles. Less of a longshot, Skydive Perris flies that DC-9 with the back airstair door off. Maybe a swatch of one of their back seats could be tested.

I suggested that jet exhaust may possibly account for some particles, not all or most,,, because the rear door was open and the plane was covered in black dust according to a later stew..  but that black dust was probably fingerprint powder.. 

Some particles do match jet exhaust, but Tom believes the particles were transferred to the tie by the fingers... So, if any were from jet exhaust at all, it would be minor.

The tie had about 7 years to accumulate those particles and IMO, it was in one or more electronics environments. The tie wearer was working with their hands and transferred particles to the tie..

[georger 258]

  On 4/25/2025 at 12:32 AM, dudeman17 said:

Some time ago somebody suggested that the tie particles might be explained by it being exposed to the jet exhaust coming in the back of the plane. Is that feasible? Long shot, does anyone know what became of that plane? If it's sitting an aircraft boneyard somewhere with the same seats in it, maybe a swatch of material could be obtained to test for similar particles. Less of a longshot, Skydive Perris flies that DC-9 with the back airstair door off. Maybe a swatch of one of their back seats could be tested.

The plane eventually became scrap. Nothing left. Nothing exists.

[Robert99 55]

  On 4/25/2025 at 3:45 AM, georger said:

The plane eventually became scrap. Nothing left. Nothing exists.

Also, it is reported that the seats that Cooper used and others adjacent to them were removed by the FBI in Seattle late on Thanksgiving Day.  The act of removing those seats is supposed to have been when the tie was discovered.

The airliner itself was back in regular service within another day or two.

In any event, the seats Cooper used are long gone.

[FLYJACK 760]

  On 4/25/2025 at 1:32 AM, FLYJACK said:

I suggested that jet exhaust may possibly account for some particles, not all or most,,, because the rear door was open and the plane was covered in black dust according to a later stew..  but that black dust was probably fingerprint powder.. 

Some particles do match jet exhaust, but Tom believes the particles were transferred to the tie by the fingers... So, if any were from jet exhaust at all, it would be minor.

The tie had about 7 years to accumulate those particles and IMO, it was in one or more electronics environments. The tie wearer was working with their hands and transferred particles to the tie..

And, the FBI tested the tie for bodily fluids,, that may have added some luminescent chemicals to the tie.. not sure if they tried fingerprints. Lots of particles in fingerprint powder.  The "club moss" was used in pill coating and latex glove lubricant.. possible it came from latex gloves used by the FBI to handle the tie.

Edited April 25 by FLYJACK