DB Cooper

[EVickiW 0]

Quote

I wish the FBI would let me examine the Amboy chute. I'll be up in the Seattle area for a trial in late April. Wish I had a good FBI connection.

.............
377

I will be in Seattle from April 17 - 21st. Will you be there the same week?

Melvin Luther Wilson - Missing Person since September 1971:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03QLnFvk8Fs

[georger 268]

Quote

I will repeat (for once): I just think its a little strange
if someone thinks Amboy is where Cooper landed,
then its weird to sign on immediately to JT's search in
the wrong place, ? Why waste the time?

To be correct: I never said I knew where the
Amboy chute find was. What I said (its in the thread) was, there were several newspaper articles following the announcement of the find, both articles had photos. Then a third article appeared with a small Google map of the general area. I know I saved the Google map and can share it again. I think I also saved the photos showing the road into the field where the chute was found, just off the edge of the road the owner was making-widening. One of the photos has the owner and one of his children in it. Problem is: when I went back later to try and find those articles with photos, I could not find them and I did a long search. I found that a bit strange. Maybe the articles were taken down? Or, maybe those articles are still out there for Snowmman or Smokin99 to find? I just don't know.

I will look tomorrow for the photos if I saved them.

One of those original articles (for whoever might
search) is rather long - at least two pages. It not only explained the find and had several photos, it also contained the comments of several locals and an aviation historian trying to account for who might have left the chute.

Let me see what I can find tomorrow or the next day.
But I know I have the map and I seem to remember I sent Bruce (or someone) a copy of it long ago?

ps: here's one of the maps taken straight from one of the articles. Turns out I have another map that was published which has gps coordinates on it! Do I post it too? The map attached may be one of the maps I gave Bruce ??? I think it was Bruce ???

__________________________________________________



MeyerLoue

Ckret
Jun 5, 2008, 2:14 PM
Post #2094 of 24346 (5293 views)
Registered: Sep 7, 2007
Posts: 522 Re: [Sluggo_Monster] re: slowing the
plane [In reply to]

MYTH BUSTING IN PROGRESS:

This is what Cooper relayed to the crew through
Mucklow:

(1) Fly to Mexico City non-stop, if you can't make it
then anywhere in Mexico.
(2) Fly with landing gear and flaps down
(3) Do not fly above 10,000 feet
(4) Fly with the lights out in the cabin
(5) Do not land in the US for fuel or any other reason.
(6) No one aft of the first Class Curtain
(7) After takeoff the stewardess will be allowed to the
cockpit.
(8) The rear door open and the stairs extended for
takeoff.

Cooper did not request the flaps be set at 15
degrees.

Cooper never requested a speed.

Cooper never asked for the plane to speed up or slow
down.

Cooper did not request flight updates from the crew at
any time during the incident.

THE TIME LINE SHIFT

From re-reading the interviews and logs, the work
going on here, the money (how and where it was
found) and much thought on the subject, this is how
the time line has shifted:

At 7:42 Cooper called to the cockpit and told them he
could not get the stairs to open. The crew slowed the
plane and the stairs opened a bit. (my thoughts here)
So now Cooper is looking at the stairs twisting his
head around like a dog hearing a high pitch noise
trying to figure it out.

He soon gets it, "the stairs drop by gravity, if i walk
out on them they drop, the further my weight gets out
over the stairs, the lower they go." Having realized
this Cooper finalizes whatever it is he needs to do and
by 8:05 he is ready to go.

He now starts to slowly test out his theory by walking
out a few feet on the stairs. As he does they drop a
bit further, causing the opening in the rear of the craft
to get larger. Because of this, the air pressure in the
cabin starts to change. Rataczak sees the cabin
pressure gauge oscillating at 8:10 to 8:12 and reports
it to NWA flight ops.

For the next five to ten minutes Cooper gets it all
figured out and jumps, creating the "bump" 5 to 10
minutes after the last contact at 8:05. [re- 302 testimony]

The oscillations and bump are two different events
confused as one by the agents conducting interviews.
This confusion led investigators to believe the 8:11
report by Rataczak was the jump.


(This post was edited by Ckret on Jun 5, 2008, 2:39
PM)

And the conclusion to this is:

Draw your own conclusions vis-a-vis Amboy parachute.

Robert99 may be smiling -

[georger 268]

Quote

Quote

"I didn't necessarily believe the Amboy chute was Cooper's."

These are the thoughts of many, I am very skeptical about the chute.
all stones must be unturned before moving forward........

Believe it or not, I am of the same thought regarding the chute. I just had some real problems with the way it was investigated by the Seattle FBI. Still do. Quickie points:

1) Sea/FBI says no markings on the chute. Later, they retract. Points to offhand investigation perhaps.
2) They say they think it's from a Dec 1945 jump, but chute was made later, according to DOM tag.
3) They accepted (and went public with) Cossey's silk-not-nylon story with no named outside confirmation.
4) Suddenly announced they would no longer discuss the chute.
5) These things do not generate confidence in their conclusions regarding the chute.

Just saying.

The issue is not confidence in their conclusion;
but your jumping to conclusions based on nothing!

Dont even ask me to explain. We are
waaaaaaaaaaaaaay beyond that!

Realty Hotel for Blevins!

[georger 268]

Weather Underground's historical data from the evening of the hijacking, Olympia, WA:

Wind
Wind Speed 13 mph (SSW)
Max Wind Speed 21 mph
Max Gust Speed -
Visibility 10 miles
Events Rain

Uhhhhh, just so you know ... Olympia (above) is here
- PDX and the area below Merwin Lake are - there!
See attached map!

Would you care to apply Seattle weather data to DesMoines, Iowa ! ?

More Blevins Mania.

[georger 268]

Based on nothing? Right. Hey,

Yep NOTHIN spelled N O T H I N!

Take a high colonic and call 377 in the
mourning.

Did you stay up all night monitoring this thread
like an honest conspiracy theorista !?

Don't get your ass arrested wandering around NE of
Amboy looking for something that isn't there!

[georger 268]

Quote

Quote

Based on nothing? Right. Hey,

Yep NOTHIN spelled N O T H I N!

Take a high colonic and call 377 in the
mourning.

Did you stay up all night monitoring this thread
like an honest conspiracy theorista !?

Don't get your ass arrested wandering around NE of
Amboy looking for something that isn't there!

Have you now added 377 to the list of people you don't like? And what the heck would I be doing in Amboy? I'm not even going to the Ariel gathering this year.

I never said the FBI's investigation into the chute was a conspiracy. I said it may have been flawed. I don't generally buy into conspiracy theories.

Explain what you mean by 'nothin'. As usual, you try to poke holes, but forget to bring your stick. I thought I presented a pretty good case. You come back at that with 'it's nothin'.

Your response was 'nothin'.

Your editorial was quote:

"Believe it or not, I am of the same thought regarding the chute. I just had some real problems with the way it was investigated by the Seattle FBI. Still do. Quickie points:

1) Sea/FBI says no markings on the chute. Later, they retract. Points to offhand investigation perhaps.
2) They say they think it's from a Dec 1945 jump, but chute was made later, according to DOM tag.
3) They accepted (and went public with) Cossey's silk-not-nylon story with no named outside confirmation.
4) Suddenly announced they would no longer discuss the chute.
5) These things do not generate confidence in their conclusions regarding the chute.

Just saying."

They accepted (and went public with)...
Suddenly announced they...
These things do not generate confidence in their...
real problems with the way it was investigated by the
Seattle FBI.
Points to offhand investigation ...
Quickie points: ...

[mrshutter45 21]

Robert, how did you conclude that jump point? do you
realize where this is on a map?

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[Robert99 60]

Quote

Quote

Based on nothing? Right. Hey,

Yep NOTHIN spelled N O T H I N!

Take a high colonic and call 377 in the
mourning.

Did you stay up all night monitoring this thread
like an honest conspiracy theorista !?

Don't get your ass arrested wandering around NE of
Amboy looking for something that isn't there!

Have you now added 377 to the list of people you don't like? And what the heck would I be doing in Amboy? I'm not even going to the Ariel gathering this year.

I never said the FBI's investigation into the chute was a conspiracy. I said it may have been flawed. I don't generally buy into conspiracy theories.

Explain what you mean by 'nothin'. As usual, you try to poke holes, but forget to bring your stick. I thought I presented a pretty good case. You come back at that with 'it's nothin'.

Your response was 'nothin'.

EDIT: I just saw this from you:

Weather Underground's historical data from the evening of the hijacking, Olympia, WA:

Wind
Wind Speed 13 mph (SSW)
Max Wind Speed 21 mph
Max Gust Speed -
Visibility 10 miles
Events Rain

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote

'Uhhhhh, just so you know ... Olympia (above) is here
- PDX and the area below Merwin Lake are - there!
See attached map!

Would you care to apply Seattle weather data to DesMoines, Iowa ! ?

More Blevins Mania...'

Robert replies: I have seen the PDX data from Weather Underground. Olympia is north of the alleged drop zone. Portland is south. Merwin Lake lies between them. I simply offered up the north side weather. Here's the PDX data, which is not that much different. (The point is, perhaps the weather across the entire region that evening was similar)

PDX data, 11/24/71:

Wind Speed
10 mph (SSE)
Max Wind Speed
15 mph
Max Gust Speed
(not given)
Visibility
14 miles

Events
Rain

Blevins, Keep in mind that Weather Underground's numbers are SURFACE (i.e., GROUND) weather and not the weather aloft that determines where the parachute is going to end up.

Robert99

[georger 268]

Quote

I'm not going to put readers through an entire re-quote. Yes, I have issues with the investigation of the chute by the Seattle FBI. But I've already explained that and I don't see the point of going through it again. I think I made my points clear enough.

Fine. You think the Seattle FBI is right. You believe the investigation was solid and unflawed and the results perfectly trustworthy. The answer here is simple. We disagree.

Don't put words in my mouth, Blevins. I havent said
one word about what I think about the FBI's
stance on this matter.

What I am saying is: Blevins points are nothing
because they are based on nothing, nada. Blevins'
stance is merely an editorial based on conjecture.

Virtually every post Blevins has made since arriving at
Dropzone has been conjecture and social-media
management of other people's business!

Blevins you are all about conjectures and editorials,
based on nothing most of the time. It seems to be a
hobby he has! And why he chose the DB Cooper case,
God only knows! Maybe he thought there was a $buck
in it for him and Gayla?

Blevins come here and talks about "Reality Hotel"
when in reality he doesn't even know where the front door to that is!

Name one thing Blevins has added to this case since
he arrived?

Others do actual research -

Or maybe, this thread is not about actual research
and Ckret etal should never have come here, and this
thread is about something else?

[mrshutter45 21]

I took my sim up for a test today, I wanted to see how the system adjusted to the new computer.
It seems to be flawless on the first flight to Toledo! I was able to match things according to the
transcripts.

level at 10,000
speed about 170
fuel flow around 4500

from past testing we noticed the plane had to go faster before it reached the 14 mile mark.
Transcripts do say we have her down to about 160. if I maintain a speed of 200 during the
7,000 climb I make the 14 mile mark and all others with the exception of the 19 mile mark.

does any of this make sense?

I didn't include all the things done during the leg of the flight.

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[skyjack71 0]

Blevins stated:

Quote

I suggest that we move forward here. I already said that it's okay for us to disagree here about the chute. I don't have a problem with that. I didn't make assumptions, I took everything I said about the chute investigation directly from FBI statements in the media, and the articles themselves.

TO BLEVINS:
There YOU GO AGAIN! If U had never have coerced two elderly women and had NOT come here to PROMOTE your book and deter REAL researchers - this case might have been solved yrs ago!

Everyone had to muddle thru your promotions - well, it is OVER now!

Have U even bothered to call LYLE and see how he is doing?
NO, you haven't - U are about NOTHING, but yourself!

Have you spoke to the WOMEN U interrogated? Probably NOT!

We do NOT have an ICON for putting hands on ears - screaming STOP or PLEASE JUST SHUT UP!

PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO MY POST. JUST STOP WASTING THE TIME of REAL people TRYING to unravel a REAL CRIME!

JO never pretends to know anything about JUMPING, CHUTES, FLIGHT PATTERNS - U on the other hand CLAIM KNOWLEDGE U DO NOT HAVE!
U are not qualified to make the statements U make! U cost anyone who read your post VALUABLE time while U PROMOTE yourself!


TO THE GUYS:

No, I didn't have a stroke.
I just had one of my OH DAMN moments! Then I took my medication and made the mistake of making a post.

JT detered me for yrs, after I contacted him in 1996. I did little about resources until the FBI screwed up in conversation with me in March of 2000.

In 2001 after finding JT had LIED to me from day one - I stopped communications with him. My trip in 2001 was when I found I had been lied to.

Basically I relied on others to find articles or information - I did what little I could do in the local library and 2 journalist who did a lot of research for me (one of these I have never spoke about and refused to let her take it public). This journalist is the one who helped me find the Las Vegan article - very few people had ever read or had any knowledge of - even to this day in 2013. Others now have copies of that article thanks to Lowe and her contacts with the Las Vegan.


In 2000 she retired and moved out of the country, but DOUG took the BULL by the horns. I went PUBLIC because the FBI really screwed up and I made my feelings known. I do NOT lie and I hate people who lie or deceive or make misrepresentation (especially someone who represents justice and law enforcement).

The trip to WA in 2001 - was when I realized I had been lied to by JT. NO reason for JT to have lied to me for 5 yrs about locations I explained to him in detail. I ceased contact with him until he found me on this thread in 2004 or 2005.

I contacted JT in the last few wks about something I remembered. ALL of sudden he is promoting the Washougal Water Shed and the deep woods again. He is right back where he started yrs ago - making sure the truth is never known.....my opinion!

I described in DETAIL the area with the TOWER and he denied it ever existed. HE knew the AREA I was talking about - I thought maybe I had NOT described it properly. I have gone over OLD records - and the story about the damn Tower that was there in 1971, but not in 1979 - never changed.

NOW, that I am back on the chase of the TOWER - he is trying to pull the search back to the WOODS and away from the area I discussed over and over. He claimed in a ph conversation the other day the area was where the SHOE was found and the area was throughly investigated.

I want PROOF - NOT JT's word. He wiggles and he squirms when anyone even talks about the area of the TOWER. Is HE or the FBI or someone else hiding something about this area? Is it miscommunications and too many hands in the mix over the yrs?

It has been 34 yrs since I was in WA with Duane in 1979, but I remember it like it was last wk.

NOW the chances of anyone being alive who remembers it the way it was then and in 1971 are slim. A newpapers article asking for pictorial contributions about old towers and lookouts maybe coming in the near future in a newpaper article or historical magazine.

None of those things are even really important anymore, because Cooper died a long time ago. Duane told me about a grave yard and he used to know someone buried there. He did NOT take me into that grave yard.

I did tell JT about the grave and that date on the records - very little information and it has no marker. If the man buried in that plot is Cooper - someone had to have buried him! Someone paid for the plot! It was a weird co-incidence - this old record. It was pouring down the rain the day I was there in 2010 - I found no marker with that name on it.

Like a good mystery - go to a cemetary!

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[mrshutter45 21]

what tower and where is it supposed to be at Jo? I have a map of
all known towers, give me and area to close in on?

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[georger 268]

Quote

Georger says in part:

Quote

'Don't put words in my mouth, Blevins. I havent said one word about what I think about the FBI's stance on this matter...'

Quote

'What I am saying is: Blevins points are nothing because they are based on nothing, nada. Blevins' stance is merely an editorial based on conjecture...'

and:

Quote

'And why he chose the DB Cooper case, God only knows! Maybe he thought there was a $buck in it for him and Gayla?...'

Again with your 'based on nothing' routine. Again with picking on the CEO (Gayla Prociv), who wanted to drop the whole Cooper thing anyway. I'll assume you are kidding about 'making a buck on Cooper'. I did check the sales rankings at Amazon for all other available books on Cooper before we did ours. They were abysmal, and this was BEFORE Geoff Gray's book emerged. I knew there probably wasn't any money to be made there. As you know, I also turned down $2,500 from Go Go Luckey for the Decoded appearance, and another $1,000 for Adrenaline Hunter's Cooper episode. And...I have turned down one offer for rights on the screenplay because they weren't going to present it as either a drama or a documentary, and they wanted to heavily embellish the truth. Money, my eye. It's the truth I care about regarding Cooper and nothing else.

You really have a double-standard going here you know. First, you pick on my minor points and research regarding the Amboy chute...but you waffle on having any opinions of your own about it. Anyone can see that it isn't what I present that you have a problem with, but that it is ME presenting it. You go on and on about scrubbing toilets, Gayla, personal issues galore. And it is YOU who is driving people from the thread, not I. At least lately. Your constant harangues on every point I make (mostly not answered with any facts or opinions of your own of a non-personal nature) is becoming ludicrous. And you've gotten worse since I called you out on your phony quotes about me supposedly by Geoff Gray, who by the way denies making them. And no...I didn't phone you in the middle of the night and blast YouTube in your ear.

Do you have an opposing view regarding the investigation by the Seattle FBI on the Amboy chute? If not, then how can you say my conclusions on their investigation are wrong?

I suggest that we move forward here. I already said that it's okay for us to disagree here about the chute. I don't have a problem with that. I didn't make assumptions, I took everything I said about the chute investigation directly from FBI statements in the media, and the articles themselves.

The windbag says all of the above!

I say: if the FP timeline is off by a millimetre, then the
Amboy chute can't be Cooper's. Think 234.6 feet per
second at minimum. Thats 14,076 ft/min. Say 8:11-
8:16 give or take a minute. That's 84,456 feet =
15.8 miles potentially at play. H said in 1976 after the
SF Conference on the Cooper case, that the revised
NWA FP and Timeline had Cooper bailing "12 miles
north of Portland".

Then the money suddenly shows up at Tina Bar!

Anyone have any idea how many planes with possible
bailouts have flown V23 for the last 40+ years?
(Farflung brought that up)

Yes indeed as Blevins sayz: Lets move forward

Play it again Sam.

[skyjack71 0]

Blevins Stated:

Quote

And...I have turned down one offer for rights on the screenplay because they weren't going to present it as either a drama or a documentary, and they wanted to heavily embellish the truth. Money, my eye. It's the truth I care about regarding Cooper and nothing else.

If it was the TRUTH U were after WHY write a book WITHOUT circumstancial evidence. The production companies - major movie produces - do OPTION Contacts! I seriously doubt any one of them would OFFER you contract for development of a movie.

BLEVINS - U just do NOT get it - KC was NOT Cooper. AS it stands with the investigation at this point U cannot save FACE, so just WALK away with some dignity.

Your repetition about a man who was NEVER a suspect is very irritating. Your consistent denials and bantering with other posters is NOT productive. THEY are NOT here to discuss your book. You take a subject like the AMBOY chute and beat it to death!

NO one can move forward because of U Blevins - not me or Georger or any of the other posters! Have U even been reading the other posts with an open mind? NO WAY! How many time do you say MOVE FORWARD and the only one going BACKWARDS is U.

The Amboy CHUTE may have IOTA to do with Cooper. Even if it did - U nor anyone outside of the FBI will ever know.


--------------------------------

Now GEORGER!

How many stories have been told about the time lines and the money find?

How many times has it changed?

Even U have stated & quoted the 1976 quotes by Himmelsbach, but look at what Technology has done to advance the case so far!
Basically NOT much!

Cooper bailing out 12 miles North and the money being found on Tena Bar - does NOT cut mustard. WHY the money presented more question than the crime itself!

Go right back to Palmer - Human intervention! In 41 yrs NO ONE has proposed a senario that works for eveyone.

Palmer and others have stated the money on the beach had not been there more than 9 months.
FACT: NO one WANTS to believe that COOPER actually survived.

Perhaps Cooper being the simple person although complex person he was - thought by the money showing up in the River everyone would think he died.
Putting the money on the beach was A STUPID thing to do! Right?

What suspect in the last 14 yrs has been noted to do STUPID things. Things that usually ended up putting him in prison or on the run!

Why did he tell me about the St. Pete arrest in third person? What did he reply when asked what his occupation was?

U do realize the FBI did NOT tell me about this arrest and the first I knew of it was when one of U posted the old St Pete Article. The moment I read the article I knew he REALLY was Cooper. He had told me about his life in 3rd person. This was the day that ALL of the pieces started to make sense.

Even though his thinking was misplaced - he was proud of his accomplishment, but he could NEVER tell anyone about it! How ironic!

PERHAP as sad as it is - why he chose ME as his wife. Stable, hard worker - with dumb blonde syndrome. In the 17 yrs we were married I had NOT figured him out and did NOT pry into his past. Maybe he just finally grew-up and wanted a normal life. He had accomplished by "his standard" a crime NO one could solve....

Have you ever seen his tax records?
Do you know how much money he made in 1971? Less than 2K.
Do you know how much he made in 1976? Over 35K.

How many people made 35K in 1976 (Without a high school diploma)? PLUS he was an excon with multiple insurance licenses?

Raises more Questions than it Answers? Same way with the money find!

It is just ALL CRAZY! NO one would ever BELIEVE the things this man did.

His old friend recently reminded me of this story. One about the meeting when the company was going to change the way the leads were worked and asked if anyone had anything contribute.
Duane was in the back of the room pacing and agitated with that look on his face.

He went to the podium and turned his back to the group, leaned over and FARTED! Then he walked OUT!

When he went out on disability in 1987 was the first time I heard this story - it was told by the Presentor of the Manager of the Year Award!

NOW, that is the kind of STUPID things Duane Weber was known to do. He was risking a job making good money and let the company heads know what he thought about their ideas...in his own crazy off the wall way!

He accepted the award and brought Laughter & then Tears because he would NOT take credit he felt his "guys" deserved. He did NOT think he did anything spectacular!

Manage of the Yr Award versus Only unsolved SKYJACKING - Ironic! His life was irony - I did NOT know the man I was married to. Had I known about his past he would have been history!

ALL I can say at this time is WHAT A TRIP this had BEEN! This man could actually make me smile and be fun to be around. He had a personality that brought out the best in the people around him. He would give you the shirt off his back, yet this man WAS a many time FELON! Ironic!

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[MeyerLouie 5]

Quote

I have thought about this for a long time. Sluggo did work with me but like myself - he was taking the things I said at face value. He offered to go with me on my trip to WA., but it was something I HAD TO DO ALONE.

I knew I had be alone with my thought, but I did get lost a lot times wondering around by myself, but it turned out to be a good thing. Someone else driving or distracting me - I would NOT have been a soul mode and I would have been distracted. I needed to follow my gut and to make my own decisions. I am glad I did it this way.

To night when viewing all of the map he made for me - the are as pristine as the day he gave them to me, but he like myseld was focusing on WHAT I believe when I went out there.

The realization of TIME and Space - it just happned, but I was out of time and money and have not been able to go back.
Since then I have had 3 surgeries, but I have never gained backy my stamina, meaning the next trip has to be the last if I even can figure out how to do it.

Right now I believe I could go to the area he took me where the circle was and I am sure it has been developed. I have 2 places I really need to go, but I know if there is someone with me it will shut me down. Alone I am able to flow with my memories and turnaround and go back and do it again - or step away and go get something to eat and try it again another way. Bruce will tell you that I am no timid about knocking on doors. People seem to be pretty receptive to old women at their door - even if she does come across a little luney.

I mistakenly thought Sluggo was putting the flight path goind over Tena's bar - that is NOT what happened. I studied all of the pages - he stayed East of
Vancouver and did Non take the plane Over Tena's bar as other had suggested. I do disagree on that one minute - because I do not see it in real time.

One minute and he was right there - but I didn't realize where this site was then. NOW I desperately need to go back and I need to go over the area in a small plane along the route of witnesses and the back over that same route the way the pilot thinks it was done. Need to be done about the same time of day.

Might need one of those young Wa guys to pull me in a chinese buggs, because I want to to where I think Weber wen. Thing CHange, but if you know a person you might see what he would have done. I would not be able to move as fast as cooper and why I need a strong young man to pull me in an open light way shaw. I believe I can target his shelter as he made his way to saftey. THEN I have to commit a crime on the second nigjht I have to steal a boat and go back the PDX. There won't be an old building there , but maybe the ownaer will allow us to stay for a while and what and where he could have gone to see the things hs hew.


TWO (2) places I need to be along for a part of the night. There is a place in the "Dalles I hav to go to." I want to take asteem boat up the rifer.

Then to Spokane where I heed to see wha hedidn therel Article with pic need t be ruj with his jamelll

Hope I iw find whag ai am lookin for ther is ayoun man in prison out there I woan;t to spend so time wit.


I need to go to on the river.

__________________________________________________

Jo,

Are you alright? The last couple of sentences in your post here look pretty disheveled -- lots of misspellings too -- that's not like you. You're not yourself -- are you feeling okay?

MeyerLouie

[MeyerLouie 5]

Quote

Quote

I have thought about this for a long time. Sluggo did work with me but like myself - he was taking the things I said at face value. He offered to go with me on my trip to WA., but it was something I HAD TO DO ALONE.

I knew I had be alone with my thought, but I did get lost a lot times wondering around by myself, but it turned out to be a good thing. Someone else driving or distracting me - I would NOT have been a soul mode and I would have been distracted. I needed to follow my gut and to make my own decisions. I am glad I did it this way.

To night when viewing all of the map he made for me - the are as pristine as the day he gave them to me, but he like myseld was focusing on WHAT I believe when I went out there.

The realization of TIME and Space - it just happned, but I was out of time and money and have not been able to go back.
Since then I have had 3 surgeries, but I have never gained backy my stamina, meaning the next trip has to be the last if I even can figure out how to do it.

Right now I believe I could go to the area he took me where the circle was and I am sure it has been developed. I have 2 places I really need to go, but I know if there is someone with me it will shut me down. Alone I am able to flow with my memories and turnaround and go back and do it again - or step away and go get something to eat and try it again another way. Bruce will tell you that I am no timid about knocking on doors. People seem to be pretty receptive to old women at their door - even if she does come across a little luney.

I mistakenly thought Sluggo was putting the flight path goind over Tena's bar - that is NOT what happened. I studied all of the pages - he stayed East of
Vancouver and did Non take the plane Over Tena's bar as other had suggested. I do disagree on that one minute - because I do not see it in real time.

One minute and he was right there - but I didn't realize where this site was then. NOW I desperately need to go back and I need to go over the area in a small plane along the route of witnesses and the back over that same route the way the pilot thinks it was done. Need to be done about the same time of day.

Might need one of those young Wa guys to pull me in a chinese buggs, because I want to to where I think Weber wen. Thing CHange, but if you know a person you might see what he would have done. I would not be able to move as fast as cooper and why I need a strong young man to pull me in an open light way shaw. I believe I can target his shelter as he made his way to saftey. THEN I have to commit a crime on the second nigjht I have to steal a boat and go back the PDX. There won't be an old building there , but maybe the ownaer will allow us to stay for a while and what and where he could have gone to see the things hs hew.


TWO (2) places I need to be along for a part of the night. There is a place in the "Dalles I hav to go to." I want to take asteem boat up the rifer.

Then to Spokane where I heed to see wha hedidn therel Article with pic need t be ruj with his jamelll

Hope I iw find whag ai am lookin for ther is ayoun man in prison out there I woan;t to spend so time wit.


I need to go to on the river.

__________________________________________________

Jo,

Are you alright? The last couple of sentences in your post here look pretty disheveled -- lots of misspellings too -- that's not like you. You're not yourself -- are you feeling okay?

You're okay, good!....................

Jo,

You keep talking about the tower, the cemetery, the trip you and Duane took, your fuzzy memories of what things looked like back then. But when people (not JT) offer to help you find those landmarks, you clam up, you say it's something you have to do all by yourself.

So, my question is: what's the deal with all the secrecy? You're a mystery? Are you afraid someone else is going to get the cre.it and notoriety for all the hard work and commitment you've put in these past 20 years?

Let's say Duane really is DBC. If you have real information -- underneath all of those fuzzy recollections and behind all of those vague memories -- then why not let others help you uncover it? Your health is failing, your memories are fading, and you do not have the physical and financial resources to investigate the things you want to investigate (these are your words). Yet, in spite of your obsession with the case, you do not have one shred of evidence, in these past 17 years, that backs up your story. I thought the purpose here was to get at the truth and solve the case (these are your words too).

You're spinning your wheels, and they've been spinnning for a long, long time now. It's okay to ask for help. I, for one, will never steal anything from you. I'm here because it's fun to be here -- and I think there are many others here who feel the same way -- and would help you in any way they could.

MeyerLouie

• Quote

[377 22]

Jo wrote

Quote

FACT: NO one WANTS to believe that COOPER actually survived.

Are you kidding Jo? Many including myself want to believe he survived.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Robert99 60]

Quote

Ckret
Jun 5, 2008, 2:14 PM
Post #2094 of 24346 (5293 views)
Registered: Sep 7, 2007
Posts: 522 Re: [Sluggo_Monster] re: slowing the
plane [In reply to]

MYTH BUSTING IN PROGRESS:

This is what Cooper relayed to the crew through
Mucklow:

(1) Fly to Mexico City non-stop, if you can't make it
then anywhere in Mexico.
(2) Fly with landing gear and flaps down
(3) Do not fly above 10,000 feet
(4) Fly with the lights out in the cabin
(5) Do not land in the US for fuel or any other reason.
(6) No one aft of the first Class Curtain
(7) After takeoff the stewardess will be allowed to the
cockpit.
(8) The rear door open and the stairs extended for
takeoff.

Cooper did not request the flaps be set at 15
degrees.

Cooper never requested a speed.

Cooper never asked for the plane to speed up or slow
down.

Cooper did not request flight updates from the crew at
any time during the incident.

THE TIME LINE SHIFT

From re-reading the interviews and logs, the work
going on here, the money (how and where it was
found) and much thought on the subject, this is how
the time line has shifted:

At 7:42 Cooper called to the cockpit and told them he
could not get the stairs to open. The crew slowed the
plane and the stairs opened a bit. (my thoughts here)
So now Cooper is looking at the stairs twisting his
head around like a dog hearing a high pitch noise
trying to figure it out.

He soon gets it, "the stairs drop by gravity, if i walk
out on them they drop, the further my weight gets out
over the stairs, the lower they go." Having realized
this Cooper finalizes whatever it is he needs to do and
by 8:05 he is ready to go.

He now starts to slowly test out his theory by walking
out a few feet on the stairs. As he does they drop a
bit further, causing the opening in the rear of the craft
to get larger. Because of this, the air pressure in the
cabin starts to change. Rataczak sees the cabin
pressure gauge oscillating at 8:10 to 8:12 and reports
it to NWA flight ops.

For the next five to ten minutes Cooper gets it all
figured out and jumps, creating the "bump" 5 to 10
minutes after the last contact at 8:05. [re- 302 testimony]

The oscillations and bump are two different events
confused as one by the agents conducting interviews.
This confusion led investigators to believe the 8:11
report by Rataczak was the jump.


(This post was edited by Ckret on Jun 5, 2008, 2:39
PM)

And the conclusion to this is:

Draw your own conclusions vis-a-vis Amboy parachute.

Robert99 may be smiling -

Georger, It may be easier and faster to just start with a blank sheet of paper and reinvent the Cooper case out of whole cloth. I may be smiling but it is in disbelief.

Robert99

[377 22]

Meyer Louie wrote

Quote

Let's say Duane really is DBC. If you have real information -- underneath all of those fuzzy recollections and behind all of those vague memories -- then why not let others help you uncover it?

Jo would rather tease and riddle Meyer. I've made the same suggestion to her but to no avail. Sigh...

It just floors me that she complains endlessly about the FBIs failure to thoroughly investigate Duane but she deliberately withheld physical evidence from them such as Duane's watch.

Weeks ago Jo was going to "go public" with blockbuster info if the FBI failed to act on something she was sending to them. Don't hold your breath.

Still, I like Jo and wish her the best. I wish she'd just reveal ALL she has and spend her remaining days doing something more productive and enjoyable than what she is doing now.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[georger 268]

Quote

Quote

Ckret
Jun 5, 2008, 2:14 PM
Post #2094 of 24346 (5293 views)
Registered: Sep 7, 2007
Posts: 522 Re: [Sluggo_Monster] re: slowing the
plane [In reply to]

MYTH BUSTING IN PROGRESS:

This is what Cooper relayed to the crew through
Mucklow:

(1) Fly to Mexico City non-stop, if you can't make it
then anywhere in Mexico.
(2) Fly with landing gear and flaps down
(3) Do not fly above 10,000 feet
(4) Fly with the lights out in the cabin
(5) Do not land in the US for fuel or any other reason.
(6) No one aft of the first Class Curtain
(7) After takeoff the stewardess will be allowed to the
cockpit.
(8) The rear door open and the stairs extended for
takeoff.

Cooper did not request the flaps be set at 15
degrees.

Cooper never requested a speed.

Cooper never asked for the plane to speed up or slow
down.

Cooper did not request flight updates from the crew at
any time during the incident.

THE TIME LINE SHIFT

From re-reading the interviews and logs, the work
going on here, the money (how and where it was
found) and much thought on the subject, this is how
the time line has shifted:

At 7:42 Cooper called to the cockpit and told them he
could not get the stairs to open. The crew slowed the
plane and the stairs opened a bit. (my thoughts here)
So now Cooper is looking at the stairs twisting his
head around like a dog hearing a high pitch noise
trying to figure it out.

He soon gets it, "the stairs drop by gravity, if i walk
out on them they drop, the further my weight gets out
over the stairs, the lower they go." Having realized
this Cooper finalizes whatever it is he needs to do and
by 8:05 he is ready to go.

He now starts to slowly test out his theory by walking
out a few feet on the stairs. As he does they drop a
bit further, causing the opening in the rear of the craft
to get larger. Because of this, the air pressure in the
cabin starts to change. Rataczak sees the cabin
pressure gauge oscillating at 8:10 to 8:12 and reports
it to NWA flight ops.

For the next five to ten minutes Cooper gets it all
figured out and jumps, creating the "bump" 5 to 10
minutes after the last contact at 8:05. [re- 302 testimony]

The oscillations and bump are two different events
confused as one by the agents conducting interviews.
This confusion led investigators to believe the 8:11
report by Rataczak was the jump.


(This post was edited by Ckret on Jun 5, 2008, 2:39
PM)

And the conclusion to this is:

Draw your own conclusions vis-a-vis Amboy parachute.

Robert99 may be smiling -

Georger, It may be easier and faster to just start with a blank sheet of paper and reinvent the Cooper case out of whole cloth. I may be smiling but it is in disbelief.

Robert99

Not sure what you mean, but the previous exercise
(Sluggo etal) moved the DZ south if you accept the
FBI FP. In order for the Amboy chute to be Cooper's
he must bail in that area vs. further south (Scotton-
Orchards where if you can believe previous posts here,
(Sluggo-Ckret), the FBI had done or were doing some
poking around.

We all know, are fully aware, that your analysis allows
other options - at least I am aware of that. I think
Farflung agreed?

That is all I am saying.

If the historical record is correct, H stated in 1976 that
the dz had been lowered from Merwin Lake to 12
miles north of PDX. At least that was my interpretation
of H's comments, and I think Sluggo went along with
that? As a corollary, the whole matter was still within
the parameters of the original NWA-Boeing probability
map (the first drop-zone map issued). Things were
static for the next four years. Whatever else others
were doing in the FBI, Himmelsbach's publicly
announced position was: 12 miles north of PDX, and
that is "in the record".

The events of 1980 occur and people change their
stories, or so it is alleged all according to
Himmelsbach. Rczak suddenly says 'maybe east',
Palmer etal get involved, and the Washougal Theory
is born. Agents involved at the excavation are told:
he dropped into the Washougal basin. Several agents
propose alternate theories - H retires and Seattle is
now in charge and somewhere in this time frame or
later the FBI map is born - H's 1976 public statement
fades into the mist. H is now saying "Washougal" ...

Ckret surfaces and is open to an analysis of the NWA
map. He has the original NWA map with the new FBI
map in hand. Moreover, Ckret is reading files and
finds crew testimony (Im not going to go into). The
Amboy chute is discovered! (Ckret etal consult experts
on whether the Amboy chute could be Cooper's or
not).

The previous work which tended to show a drop further
south along the FBI timeline ... is abandoned and
forgotten. Robt99 does his general analysis of the
flight of 305 . . .

Tom Kaye publishes Blevins' name giving Blevins
credit for being 'the first person to discover flaws in
the Amboy parachute story' ... or some-such
nonsense! Kaye has been excluded at Seattle from
any evidence pertaining to the Amboy chute the FBI
has.

[Robert99 60]

Georger,

Understood. I hope to have completed something in the next day or so that, hopefully, will help simplify the navigational aspects of what Mrshutter and Hominid are doing. By that I mean make things a bit less laborious.

Robert99

[georger 268]

I also noticed someone else thinks the chute was actually discovered BETWEEN Amboy and Ariel...closer to the flight path...and they did this short video about it.

'If you can't be an example, serve as a warning...'
(From an article about Lindsay Lohan)

Your vid link is a DUD.

Got any new-news about Lindsay Lohan and how she's
doing in the drunk tank? Are you going to visit her and give spiritual advice

Looks like you have skooped Bruce Smith again!

[georger 268]

Besides, there may have been others before me who questioned the FBI's results. Chute was found in 2008. My article wasn't published until 2012.

Too bad Kaye couldnt figure that out!

I realise my expectations are high.

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

Meyer Louie wrote

Quote

Let's say Duane really is DBC. If you have real information -- underneath all of those fuzzy recollections and behind all of those vague memories -- then why not let others help you uncover it?

Jo would rather tease and riddle Meyer. I've made the same suggestion to her but to no avail. Sigh...

It just floors me that she complains endlessly about the FBIs failure to thoroughly investigate Duane but she deliberately withheld physical evidence from them such as Duane's watch.

Weeks ago Jo was going to "go public" with blockbuster info if the FBI failed to act on something she was sending to them. Don't hold your breath.

Still, I like Jo and wish her the best. I wish she'd just reveal ALL she has and spend her remaining days doing something more productive and enjoyable than what she is doing now.

377

GUYS LETS GET SOMETHING STRAIGHT! I had to do the 2010 trip ALONE - I had to make sure I was NOT CRAZY! I needed no one with me until I found what I found on the day before I had to leave. I had to go home. I had to be alone - it was essential!

I should have stayed and have asked someone to take me to Seattle to talk to the FBI.

Until I told me a few wks ago - "you can put him in WA, but you have to put him on the plane" I never pushed the things I had in my possession. The FBI never asked and there was never a mention of a watch. When Sluggo was here yrs ago - I showed him the knife and I believe the watch and/or watches.

Sluggo only dissed the knife and I think we did look at the watches...but, perhaps Mr. X is the only one who saw the watches. I have only allowed 3 individuals access to the things I have.

Mr. X, Sluggo and Grey (his access was limited). Mr. X was able to take things to the bedroom with him to work on while I slept. Sluggo - I really do NOT remember if I showed him the watches - but it stands to reason if I showed him the knife I showed him the watches.

I WANT help, BUT I am NOT SPELLING IT ALL OUT IN A THREAD. EVIDENCE has a way of disappearing! Well, it does and the reviews of this case are evidence of this.

I poured my guts out to Himmelsbach and to JT in those first 4 yrs - thinking they were the persons I was supposed to be talking to. Truth is - JT had NO association with the FBI and what Mr. H provided was the letter the PI helped me put together, which he turned over to the FBI...I do NOT even know if he provided the FBI that letter!

NONE of the information I shared with JT went anywhere! If there was something on one of the sites I told him about - it is probably gone. WHY does he NOW after all of these yrs shift his search into an area that is very improbable if not impossible?

I need to go back to WA, but with people who I can trust and at a time I am feeling decent.
NO cameras. Maps and lots of Maps and OLD pictures - but all of this would have to be discussed OFF of the thread and kept out of the thread (like my 2010 trip).

Cameras - or video could be use to film the site, but one has to be careful about doing that as the pics and film get into the wrong hands - and one can get sued for damage to private property...done by treasure hunters.

Anyone doing this needs to share photos - of the location prior to my going out - so a schedule of suspect places can be arranged in a cost effective and time effective manner. They also HAVE to work with my energy level. With this thread my internal clock is already on Pacific time no problem there.

I am only good at the max 5 hrs at a time. Finding a place affordable I can stay in with a restaurant on the grounds is essential (allergies affect left eye severely and the right one slightly, but an attack brought on by cleaning fluids or deordorizor or perfumes or after shave can debilitate me for 24 hours). This happened TWICE in 2010.
Cost me almost 3 days.

JO is not teasing. Jo can only do what she can do. Since the FBI nor anyone on this thread seems to hear me - why take the items to a photographer to be photographed. One would think the FBI would have contacted me, but who knows if they read this thread or for that matter would even look at Cooper if someone put EVIDENCE in their hands.

I would take the items to the local FBI office for them to photograph, but afraid they would confiscate them. I don't trust anyone anymore! Beside the man who returned the DNA was not informative at all and who ever was with him stayed with the vehicle...and did NOT speak with me.

I have offered to take a lie detector test, but doubt with the medication it would work - but, I would do it - IF the FBI pays for it. NOT me or someone else who would benefit from the report. Also the person doing the test has to know something about the case.

Jo is only trying to protect herself and her rights and her privacy. Unlike others - I refuse to strut infront of the camera or make myself known to the public. Had enough of that! I am NOT a risk taker! Try to understand that statement. Was trying to phrase it differently, but it mean exposing too much.

Prefer talking on the phone - and not by emails....less exposure that way and they hear my voice and not just read my words - it is more interactive. Just don't put a camera in my face or let me know I am being recorded - I just freeze up and go blank.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[Robert99 60]

Quote

Don't know how much good this does. I can't read most of it, but it's some weather data from the week of November 22-28, 1971. Taken from US Weather Service, a djvu extension file converted to four manageable PDF's. Each page was originally near 20mb. If you think you need the originals, I would have to email all eight pages one at a time or figure another method, such as FTP.

I thought about sharpening these up and converting to black and white, but maybe color is needed to read it, so I left it alone. My opinion is that printing these up will get better results than onscreen viewing, although you will have to increase the dpi resolution to 150dpi to get a better view. I can probably do this if anyone is interested. I have no idea if these maps provide any significant Cooper-related data or not.

If there are one or two certain pages that anyone would like to have enlarged/enhanced, I just need to know which one, and whether it should be converted to black and white, or at least have the contrast increased for printing, I printed up the first two pages and the print is pretty small. Or maybe just a section of a page should be enlarged and enhanced for printing. This can be done easily by trimming and resampling the section, then enlarging.

Blevins, Do you remember a few months back when Hominid did a comprehensive analysis of the weather in the northwest part of the country for the evening of the hijacking?

Hominid used maps such as the ones you attached, in fact probably the same ones, as well as the COMPLETE weather data from the National Weather Service for the Portland area as well as the rest of the route between Seattle and Reno.

The information available to Hominid included winds aloft forecasts, the 8:00 PM PST hourly sequence reports for all major airports in the northwest, including Portland, cloud cover and the altitude of cloud layers, precipitation, visibility, etc., etc..

Hominid did the "gold standard" analysis and nothing remains to do be done in that respect. I remember seeing any number of posts from you in that time frame discussing the weather as well as at other times.

So what are you trying to do by bring these weather maps up again? If you insist on doing another analysis by yourself, just keep in mind that the weather situation has already been discussed at extreme length. And it is highly unlikely that you will be able to equal, much less exceed, the analysis that Hominid has already done.

Otherwise, this just seems like another attempt to recycle arguments, such as the Amboy chute matter, that pops up and are rehashed completely every few months without adding a single piece of new information.

Robert99