DB Cooper

[Robert99 60]

Blevins, Rather than repeat your whole post, let me cite some of your numbers and see where that leads.

You state that the typical salary for a purser was about $512 per month. You indicate that KC worked 160 hours per month for that salary.

You also state that the value of the money taken in the hijacking would now be 5 times higher due, presumably, to inflation alone.

First, it is not very likely that KC worked 160 hours per month for NWA. I personally don't know the details for the cabin personnel, but the cockpit crew were paid to fly (loggable flight time) about 70 to 80 hours per month.

This did not include the time they spent in preparing for a flight, time on the ground between different legs of the same flight, etc. Nevertheless, and following FAA regulations, that flight time could be achieved in about a 10 to 12 day period with a rest day or two thrown in there.

In the 1970s, the FAA had regulations about total flying time (repeat, off the ground) per day and (maybe) per week. Those regulations have been changed in the past few years.

So the cockpit crew, and probably the cabin crew, could fulfill their job obligations to NWA in about 10 working days. That leaves about 20 or 21 days that they would have free from NWA each month.

KC, was probably a very senior purser at NWA during the time in question and probably earned a bit more money due to both seniority and the international routes that he flew. So let's assume he earned $600 per month and did that in just 10 work days. That is $7200 per year from NWA and he still has almost three weeks to earn money from other sources.

Multiplying the above by the factor of 5, indicates that in today's dollars KC had an income of about $36,000 per year from NWA and probably something in the area of $50,000 per year when outside income is included.

As Jo Weber has pointed out this evening, if KC invested in real estate, and he apparently did, he could have benefited from the real estate inflation boom of the 1960 and 1970s.

While the above doesn't explain where his non-NWA income, or the coins, came from, it does suggest that a hijacking is not necessairly needed to build up the nest egg that he left.

Personally, I consider your theory about the hijacking being the source of his money as being very weak.

Robert99

[georger 268]

Quote

Blevins, Rather than repeat your whole post, let me cite some of your numbers and see where that leads.

You state that the typical salary for a purser was about $512 per month. You indicate that KC worked 160 hours per month for that salary.

You also state that the value of the money taken in the hijacking would now be 5 times higher due, presumably, to inflation alone.

First, it is not very likely that KC worked 160 hours per month for NWA. I personally don't know the details for the cabin personnel, but the cockpit crew were paid to fly (loggable flight time) about 70 to 80 hours per month.

This did not include the time they spent in preparing for a flight, time on the ground between different legs of the same flight, etc. Nevertheless, and following FAA regulations, that flight time could be achieved in about a 10 to 12 day period with a rest day or two thrown in there.

In the 1970s, the FAA had regulations about total flying time (repeat, off the ground) per day and (maybe) per week. Those regulations have been changed in the past few years.

So the cockpit crew, and probably the cabin crew, could fulfill their job obligations to NWA in about 10 working days. That leaves about 20 or 21 days that they would have free from NWA each month.

KC, was probably a very senior purser at NWA during the time in question and probably earned a bit more money due to both seniority and the international routes that he flew. So let's assume he earned $600 per month and did that in just 10 work days. That is $7200 per year from NWA and he still has almost three weeks to earn money from other sources.

Multiplying the above by the factor of 5, indicates that in today's dollars KC had an income of about $36,000 per year from NWA and probably something in the area of $50,000 per year when outside income is included.

As Jo Weber has pointed out this evening, if KC invested in real estate, and he apparently did, he could have benefited from the real estate inflation boom of the 1960 and 1970s.

While the above doesn't explain where his non-NWA income, or the coins, came from, it does suggest that a hijacking is not necessairly needed to build up the nest egg that he left.

Personally, I consider your theory about the hijacking being the source of his money as being very weak.

Robert99

RMB states the stamp & coins as follows:

"20) Coins and Stamps - One of the things Kenny
had in his estate was a large collection of stamps
and gold coins. It was valued at around $400,000
(in 1995 dollars) and left to his family in Minnesota.
The authors discovered that most of it was ordered
by mail through a P.O. box down in Sumner,
although Kenny had moved to Bonney Lake shortly
after the hijacking."

Blevins does not state what 'value' is being used -
catalog, face value in coins, dealer-wholesale, retail-
Scott catalog value ... and he doesnt tell us the
percentage of gold coins vs stamps. So it is very
difficult to get a handle of this socalled: $400,000
value Blevins assigns.

Did someone actually pay KC's estate $400,000
for this collection? ( I doubt it).

Again, without knowing the ratio of gold coins to
stamps its hard to estimate the actual value one
could expect from this collection. But two things can
be said -

(1) gold coins acquired say from 1970 forward would
have been purchased at $35/ounce or less. Gold
went all the way from 35/ounce to ~$1200/ounce
by the 1990s. So Kenny's actual outlay (purchase
price) is far less than the final value.

We also dont know when KC acquired the bulk of his
collection, if it was all during the 70s, spread out over
30 years, etc. - all of which goes to KC's actual outlay
in acquiring what he had at death.

(2) Stamps: lets say KC's stamps had a catalog
value of say $50,000 which by any standard would
be a magnificent collection of something even by
1990's standards. But the actual buyer price for such
a collection is gong to be somewhere between 1/2 to
1/5 of catalog price, depending on condition and
nature of the items being purchased. Again, these facts go to what KC actually spent in acquiring whatever he had at the time of death.

Stamps inflated wildly from the 60s to 1990s.

Knowing who he purchased his stamps from would
tell us something about the nature and actual value
of his collection. We dont know if his stamps were
US, foreign,or what. Min vs. used? Did he have these
stamps in Scott Specialty albums or just in approval
books?

(X) Who paid the inheritance tax on KC's collection
and what was that amount? Is this $400k the
assessed value for tax purposes and who assigned
that value - who expertised the collection for the
estate? Was it Lyle? What are Lyle's qualifications?

RMB says Kenny acquired most of this collection
through a PO Box. How does RMB know that? Any
facts about the dealers from whom KC purchased his
items? Did Kenny collect stamps as a kid or inherit
a collection from his folks? What was the basis for
him collecting stamps, and especially gold coins?
Gold coins are pretty specific and usually collected
for purely financial reasons as a hedge against
inflation and economic chaos.

There are so many unknowns in "400,000 collection
of stamps and gold coins" that its hard to guess what
this actually means, and what Kenny's actual
expenditures were and when purchased ...

Once again its all conceptual. Not a fact in the pot!

[georger 268]

The 'coin and stamp question' is not a big issue here, because most of it happened long AFTER the date of the hijacking. .

[georger 268]

he built this collection up much larger, but the true amount wasn't known until 1994, so it's kind of a moot point. [

[georger 268]

Making everything public is not in our best interests. It's not Dropzone viewers who matter to us so much in the Christiansen case, but the Seattle FBI. Even if I had a picture of Geestman holding up one of the ransom bills, you wouldn't be convinced anyway, so why bother?

.

[smokin99 0]

Before you came on the scene I remember reading the article about Kenny that Geoff wrote. I always thought that kenny's features kind of favored the composite. But then I had a hard time reconciling certain elements from the FBI files - like height, hair, and eye color.
Whether we like it or not, surely some credence has to be given to the totality of witness statements from the day AND specific statements from individuals who spent the most time in direct contact with DB.

But when it comes down to casual remembrances of things that happened 40 years ago - Just saying - it's not proof of anything.

Are there documents to back up any of these witness statements? Are there documents to show that Kenny came into money in 1971- 72? If so, was there a legitimate effort made to trace the funds?

It's the same with everyone that has a pet theory. It's not enough to just put whatever evidence you have out there to let it stand on it's own - everything has to be skewed and slithered to try and get the square peg in the round hole. Let's see how many dots I can connect to make my guy the winner. You know...like now we're bringing in the testimony of the granddaughter of Bernie's ex-wife's sister. (Ok - I might have exaggerated that one - but you know what I'm getting at)
For all of these people that can recite Kenny's comings and goings from the time, I just don't have a high level of confidence. Kenny seemed like a private man. Why would you assume that these people would know the full extent of his coin collection, holdings, or other matters of consequence? Do we know that Kenny didn't inherit money from someone, win the publisher's clearing house sweepstakes, sell Mary Kay -- or Mary Jane?

If the "proof" you are going on is what Kenny left when he died, then you don't have much. There are a whole bunch of ways that a frugal Kenny could have amassed a coin/stamp collection, property -- and money -- from same over the years without letting anyone know his business. You know collectors don't always just collect - sometimes they sell.

Why did Geestman have to go to Kenny for a loan for his sister? Geestman was in on it and didn't get his fair share?? That's cruel.

As for the post office box - according to the original articles on Kenny, he had different guys staying with him off and on over the years. Maybe Kenny did not trust these people enough to have his mail order coin purchases or rental property checks or playboy magazines ....or whatever... coming to his home.

As for the post office box location - You know, it was not simply a matter of dropping a card in the mail or going to USPS.com to change your address. It was a tedious chore and you had to write or call everyone. I can see leaving it be and trucking into town once a week.

Finally... say what you will about Kenny's outlook on life. I agree with the other 99. The thousand words that I get from that pic are that he and Marge are clowning around and having fun digging that ditch.

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[Farflung 0]

The first time my soul was tortured with that ‘ditch digging’ photo I noticed the least efficient form of power being used. Kenny the ‘ditch digger’ smiling in his ‘ditch digger’s’ red knit sweater with moose and Christmas tree just reminds me of those rugged mens and their equipments digging and scraping.

Just the thought of seeing the first woman to drive four horses abreast, makes me feel faint at the level of utter BS some people will repeatedly tell. In this case, it was astonishingly used as validation to her credibility which was ultimately impeached.

I know when times are tough, it’s time to break out my ragingly manly, he-man, woman haters, knit sweater, and dig me some ditch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zey8567bcg

[smokin99 0]

Sorry..Either you edited the post after I read it or I just missed this one about Kenny's money...been connecting from my iphone.

So you say that Kenny spent in CASH $23,310 in 1972.

That would be $15,000 (house), $5,000 (loan to alleged accomplice's sister), and the two lots, one behind the Safeway ($1,800) and the adjoining lot to his house. ($10 plus paying off mortgage of $1,500).

Are these CASH outlays proven by historical documents?

Were there good faith efforts to try to find alternate sources of the 23,310?
(Inheritance, land sold, coin sold, stamps sold, under the table jobs, a spare gold mine or two, drugs, smuggling, etc.).
You know you have a bad habit of just taking something and running with it without really checking to make sure it actually happened........

Unfortunately, for your guy, tax returns don't always tell the whole story.
Bank statements might help - or maybe not -- since Kenny apparently buried money all over his property or stashed it in the ceiling. And possibly without giving Geestman his fair share I might add....what's up with that??
btw...Finding a twenty would probably go a long way towards gaining some credibility with the Feds.

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[georger 268]

Quote

The first time my soul was tortured with that ‘ditch digging’ photo I noticed the least efficient form of power being used. Kenny the ‘ditch digger’ smiling in his ‘ditch digger’s’ red knit sweater with moose and Christmas tree just reminds me of those rugged mens and their equipments digging and scraping.

Just the thought of seeing the first woman to drive four horses abreast, makes me feel faint at the level of utter BS some people will repeatedly tell. In this case, it was astonishingly used as validation to her credibility which was ultimately impeached.

I know when times are tough, it’s time to break out my ragingly manly, he-man, woman haters, knit sweater, and dig me some ditch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zey8567bcg

He-mens & He-womans & He-horsies & He-
recherchers & He-internetism and he-junk.
Can't they shake their he-junk on some other
totem pole? No respect for burial grounds and
sacred tree stumps always leads to trouble!

It only makes sense (common sense) that the first
he-woman in earth to hitch and drive four Cyldsdales
a-breast, would also be the first person on earth to
recognise and know - D.B.Cooper. The two kinda go
together. Like ditch digging and relativity!

[smokin99 0]

I must be channeling Jo. I thought I was quoting my own post and I think I ended up editing it and deleting some of it. As in..it went poof....

Oh well, probably not worth repeating... except for...Does anyone know the approx date of the picture of KC on the plane?

Also I might point out that you can't discount that Kenny might have had a side gig with nefarious activities relating to his purser duties (customs & immigration, handling money on flights, coming back from trips with all sorts of gifts) Not saying that Kenny was a thief, mind you........oh wait......I forgot.....that's exactly what you want him to be. Never mind.

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[georger 268]

1) House: $75,000
2) Loan: $25,000
3) Adjoining lot, Bonney Lake, at house: $7,500.
4) Wooded lot, behind present-day Safeway: $9,000.

All spent within eight months of the crime.

Here's an original thought - for a change!

Kenny or one of his associates "found the Cooper
money"!

Maybe Kenny was down in Vancouver doing a
bum's rush at one of the hobo camps near Tena
Bara, stumbled out at 5:00am and looked down.
and "viola!" -

I mean you do know other people claim to ave
found money after the hijacking, dohn'chu?

[Farflung 0]

RobertMBlevins is constantly fighting against the tide of logic which suggests that Bernie had a weekend of Brokeback love in late ’71. He has assured everyone on the thread that Bernie is a card carrying hetro because RobertMBlevins is an expert on this subject also. Then he says:

“Were you surprised on the day you discovered Rock Hudson was gay? I (RobertMBlevins) certainly was. Same with Cynthia Nixon, Ricky Martin…..”

Surprised to discover that Ricky Martin was gay!?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Veow3Qyolwo&feature=related

No one but some group of fanbois in deep denial, and some women who may have hoped to maintain some fantasy of ‘having a shot’, could have been surprised about Ricky Martin being gay. NO ONE.

His video clearly violates the long established ‘Line of Gayness’. Once crossed there simply is no denying this scientific fact. A straight man would never allow both of his hands to rise above the line due to a complex neural connection between his brain and his friends beating the crap out of him. It is all well documented science:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUatnbaNfEo&feature=related

Still confused?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39YUXIKrOFk&feature=related

Impossible to deny or deflect at this point, as this has been documented for decades in videos which anyone could reference:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eM8Ss28zjcE&feature=related

[georger 268]

I'm not posting copies of all of those, especially to the group going around this site.

I just love being hosed.

Para-quote:

Witness No.1 -
"Hello Jerry:
I recall very well the program we did with ________
(redacted) ... The program aired in mid-November
2007. There had been a wire story that I read and a
network TV story that I saw, featuring Lyle
Christiansen following Geoff Gray’s article, claiming
that Lyle’s brother Kenneth was the legendary D.B.
Cooper. ________ (redacted) ... several people
including Lyle to do a show. Lyle appeared via
phone. I questioned Lyle first and he didn’t seem to
know anything for sure – so I opened it up for
others to ask questions. Lyle seemed willing to do
this and half apologized for not knowing more
about the Cooper case or his own brother, which I
found very strange given the gravity of his supposed
claim. We kept going in spite of Lyle's lack of
knowledge and all questioned Lyle. It became
obvious that Lyle really didn’t know anything about
the DB Cooper case or how his own brother could
have been DB Cooper. He kind of cornered himself
with his inconsistencies in his story. ___________
(redacted) After a few attempts to regain some
credibility, I recall Lyle saying that he really didn't
sincerely believe that his brother was D.B. Cooper.
I recall that he said that specifically and then he
explained that his original plan was about making a
good story. I think he said, ‘I thought it would
make a good story and a movie’. And then he said
_____________ (redacted) which astounded everyone.
___________ (redacted). Bottom line is when we
asked Lyle if he really thought Kenneth had been
Cooper he said "No", and went back to his making
a good story to use as a plot for a movie, which if I
have this right is the whole reason he hooked up
with Mr. Porteous in the first place. Please fill me in
on what you're working on regarding the case and
this program we did.
Thanks,
____________ (Redacted)


Witness No.2 -
_________________________________ (redacted)


Witness No.3 -
____________________________ (redacted)


Witness No.4 -
___________________________ (redacted)


Witness No,5 -
____________________________ (redacted)


That's all you get, Mr. Blevins!

You will have to buy the book.

[georger 268]

[Blevins] It only proves that he went through forty
times his monthly income from the period between
April, 1972 and October 1972.

The Geoff Gray article says the same, only he quotes it like this: '$512 a month and all the toilet paper you can carry...'

According to figures, the $200,000 taken in the hijacking would be worth $1,040,000 in today's dollars. So let's extrapolate Kenny's actual income in 1971 (512 a month) to those same dollars today. This would be approximately $2,500 a month. Then let's extrapolate further the money he spent in cash (that is known and can be proven) within eight months of the crime. That would be $15,000 (house), $5,000 (loan to alleged accomplice's sister), and the two lots, one behind the Safeway ($1,800) and the adjoining lot to his house. ($10 plus paying off mortgage of $1,500). These are in 1971 dollars, of course.

These figures calculate today as such, all in cash:

1) House: $75,000
2) Loan: $25,000
3) Adjoining lot, Bonney Lake, at house: $7,500.
4) Wooded lot, behind present-day Safeway: $9,000.

All spent within eight months of the crime.

[skyjack71 0]

WAY TOO LONG, BUT THIS POINT NEEDS TO BE MADE!

Blevins

Quote

We checked his available tax records from that time, and also his records from his two accounts at the West One Bank in Sumner. He had zip for balances on both.

Jo:
Excuse me, but HOW did you check his TAX records and bank Account Records? My efforts just to locate a prior safe deposit box were TURNED down by the FBI. The only check they did on income was what I provided. If you were able to acquire these records even with Kyle making the request - it would be miracle you got the detailed backlogs you make it sound like you have.

Blevins

Quote

I said he had trouble making ends meet, and wrote home about it occasionally

.

Jo:
Moving to a place with cheaper rent is just logical - then you buckle down and do what you have to do to make ends meet.
Lots of people complain about "hard" times and if you checked their account - one would find they are in better shape than MOST people. I complained about money ALL of the time - but, I was not broke or doing without. Some people like to pull the sympathy card and some just do NOT like their family knowing how much they do have - especially when there are members of the family or friends who always have their hands out.


Blevins

Quote

I know what life was like there, and 500 a month...yeah you can live on it, if it is a steady check, but often Kenny's was not. His wage is roughly equal to working for $3.12 an hour,(also before taxes) and even in 1971, that was not very much pay.

Jo:
NO you do NOT have a clue! Kenny was single and married couples with 2 children lived off less than he did......in the day!
Pre-Cooper days versus the economy in 1972 improved for most people. Those of us who had little to nothing in 1971 if we were astute and penny wise - managed to accumulate pretty healthy life styles. Starting in 1973 things started to improve - there was more money to spend.

During the early 80's there was a high un-employment factor for a period of time (nothing like it is now) and most of us over came that.... Those who did not may have been unwilling to take what work they were offered and played out their unemployment.

The GOVERNMENT DID NOT OFFER ALL OF THE "EXTENSIONS" and the people became resourceful and creative....now we have a new generation of unemployed whose work ethics are not engrained into them. Couple that with the "ME" society today and NOT being taught how to do without some unnecessary things - such as I-pads and other expensive electronics and programs or designer clothes. I have dial-up - it fits my budget. I have an antenae and not cable - because it fits my budget. I have a cell and I purchase my minutes 2 times a yr. NO one needs to be talking while driving anyway.

This is what survival is all about and Kenny knew it well. His record shows that and nothing more!

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

Give us a break. I even made Duane's tax report for 1970, 1971 and 1972 available - THOSE tax reports did NOT support his life STYLE! (the only reason I have them is Duane kept all of his tax reports). Does that make him Cooper ? Well, since he was an ex-con and thief
(that is how it was dismissed).

I went over the income twice that I remember and maybe a 3rd time in all of these yrs...showing what details I had. YOU never let up - not EVER! It is ON-going!

Hell I know better than to bother to list Duane's employement record and tax imformation and
most men of that time like to collect coins. My recent spouse who died in 2007 had a coin collection - part of it handed down from his father. I did NOT have it appraised - it went to his kids as per his will.

Duane left some coins, but they are in the safe deposit box - I have never had them appraised.
OF Course there are things I found I thought was junk - I WISH I HAD KEPT!

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

I must be channeling Jo. I thought I was quoting my own post and I think I ended up editing it and deleting some of it. As in..it went poof....

Oh well, probably not worth repeating... except for...Does anyone know the approx date of the picture of KC on the plane?

Also I might point out that you can't discount that Kenny might have had a side gig with nefarious activities relating to his purser duties (customs & immigration, handling money on flights, coming back from trips with all sorts of gifts) Not saying that Kenny was a thief, mind you........oh wait......I forgot.....that's exactly what you want him to be. Never mind.

You SAY the darnest things - even though I have disagreed with you at times (about technical stuff I do not know enough to post about anyway). You do make me laugh! You just POP out with something I do not expect and I am laughing out loud.

Some would say - I must lead a very sheltered life or perhaps I just do not mix with people well. At any rate every once in a while I get a smile or a laugh from the thread.

Wish there WAS more to smile about! But it is what it is and life is not always fair.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[MeyerLouie 5]

Blevins, Rather than repeat your whole post, let me cite some of your numbers and see where that leads....
While the above doesn't explain where his non-NWA income, or the coins, came from, it does suggest that a hijacking is not necessairly needed to build up the nest egg that he left...
Personally, I consider your theory about the hijacking being the source of his money as being very weak.

Robert99

-----------------------------------------------------------
And of course Blevins had to type up pages and take up a whole lot of room to post his "very weak" theory. As I stated earlier, his posts are getting longer, but I keep asking, "Where's the beef?" Blevins either misses facts completely (then innocently apologizes with some lame-ass excuse) or he slightly misstated facts and goes on like it's gospel truth. Good, substantive research would have solved these issues. And I've caught Blevins mistaking his assumptions for gospel truth.

Blevins, you've been around the forum for only a few years. Others here have been around since 11/24/1971. You're taking up way too much air-time with your long-winded narratives that are packed full of ridiculous statements, erroneous assumptions, and shoddy research. Why don't you let some of the experts here take over -- some who know way more than you do, some who have actually done quality research, and some who don't let their agenda, biases, and assumptions cloud their every word.
There's some good research courses offered at your local college. You may want to sign up for one.

MeyerLouie

[georger 268]

Quote

Quote

Blevins, Rather than repeat your whole post, let me cite some of your numbers and see where that leads....
While the above doesn't explain where his non-NWA income, or the coins, came from, it does suggest that a hijacking is not necessairly needed to build up the nest egg that he left...
Personally, I consider your theory about the hijacking being the source of his money as being very weak.

Robert99

Blevins, you've been around the forum for only a few years. Others here have been around since 11/24/1971. You're taking up way too much air-time with your long-winded narratives that are packed full of ridiculous statements, erroneous assumptions, and shoddy research. Why don't you let some of the experts here take over -- some who know way more than you do, some who have actually done quality research, and some who don't let their agenda, biases, and assumptions cloud their every word.
There's some good research courses offered at your local college. You may want to sign up for one.

MeyerLouie

Experts? Where are they? Have any of them managed to solve the case yet? LOL they've had long enough to do it. (Pssst, Mr I-Should-Attend-Research-School: There WAS no thread here back in 1971, or even the Internet)

Quote

'Blevins, you've been around the forum for only a few years. Others here have been around since 11/24/1971...'

I have just as much a right to present evidence against a suspect as you do. My research may not lead to the conclusion that Christiansen was Cooper, but I do keep good records. All interviews were voice-recorded and catalogued. Some are on video. I kept extensive notes. I have copies of all the offered documents and pictures. Yes, there are a few reserved from open posting on the internet.

I wasn't making a joke when I said that yes...maybe it's time to discuss something on the Cooper case OTHER than Christiansen. I presented what I have and there isn't much more to say on it. If the Seattle FBI wants to drop by, we will talk to them. If they don't, that's fine too. If some future researcher wants to continue investigating him, I would cooperate with them. I can't say Kenny was the hijacker. There isn't enough evidence. Maybe someone will figure it out later, but that job is no longer mine.

Moving on from KC is fine with me. Like I said, even I get bored discussing him.

We will obey!

Lead us oh Master.

Shamalacka schniboo plgarargbbrgara ani.

[skyjack71 0]

I am not part of this discussion - Thank Heavens!

Why are the TV stations (I don't know which ones) digging up old programs about Weber recently?

Today I was approached cautiously by a gentleman asking about a program he saw recently regarding Duane. Seems like someone has renewed the interest in a video in which the FBI made certain statement about Weber versus Cooper. From his description of the video - I told him I thought he might have seen an interview done in 2001 in WA with the FBI agent and the journalist who took Weber public.

If my memory serves me right I chose NOT to participate, but was listening in another area...I really do not remember. I do NOT like being photographed much less filmed, but I did for a News Program and for the documentary done in 2001. The only article I participated in with the NEWS was the 2 Doug Pasternac did for U.S. News and World Reports and a journalist here locally who interviewed me for the New Journal after I went public.

Hope I am remembering all of this correctly. My mind shut down the memories of when I first went public, but I do have the written documentations. Long way to get around to what this man recounted to me of the past.

He said the FBI agent stated there was a Good Chance Weber was Cooper which is AFTER the FBI had sent me a letter in 1998 stating Duane had been ruled out due to FINGERPRINTS. I never receive written doucmentation about the DNA and "other" things some of you have discussed in this forum regarding supposed information about Weber.

The short letter from the agent of record in 1998 was the only written documentation I recieved from the FBI regarding the possiblility of Weber being Cooper. Carr (not that I remember or am aware of) never made a public annoucement other than what he stated in this thread and my communications with Agent Carr were for the most part made publically in the thread.

Question? It has been 12 yrs so why is this old documentary suddenly being aired again when supposedly according to CARR (in this thread) stated Weber could not be Cooper. I do not know if he went public outside of the thread with that train of thought.

I live in the South (we don't get WA news) and do not have special channels and no way of playing even the old TAPES I have been provided. Frankly I like it that way. The man was not the 1st person to mention seeing some old clips recently regarding Weber/Cooper.

I just know I need and should have something from the FBI besides that old letter of 1998.
It is common knowledge I finally made some points in this thread I could never get the FBI to listen to...(couldn't get past the mouthpiece). The only way I justify the recent enquiries is that perhaps there have been second thoughts by the FBI and perhaps this thread has been instrumental in my finally be heard.

WISHFUL thinking or did I post something that caused someone to look at Weber again. The details I revealed in this thread - the FBI had ignored. I hope beyond all hope something has actually been accomplished, because I am VERY tired.

I have fought a long and hard battle - for 17 yrs and I am emotionally and physically spent.
When I related John Weber's connections to Tosaw perhaps someone finally got it. Someone finally realized I was NOT blowing smoke - at least I will take that thought to bed with me tonight. Very tired and wish the FBI would FINALLY at least provide me with their Proof Weber was Not Cooper. If it was as simple as JT state to me several time "Duane was in jail". when the skyjacking took place - why NOT just tell me?

There is consolation in the that I have been able to make some of the "facts" regarding Weber known in this thread. Hope some the things I have repeatedly told in this thread provide some kind of insight into this case - and I feel in my heart of hearts Weber was indeed Cooper as I have maintained since May of 1996 on the very night I learned that D.B. Cooper had used the name Dan Cooper!

There has been speculation on my part - with some "things" presented in this thread - but, I always go back to what I know and what I held in my hands and the things I learned over the yrs about the man I knew as Duane L. Weber and who actually told me "I'mmm Dan Coooper". I didn't know WHO Dan Cooper was and then individuals like JT did all they could to discredit me.

Hopefully someone was actually listening to me. You Think! Probably not, but I tried with all of my heart and soul. I didn't do this for money or for my health - just for the truth - that is all I wanted.

There is NO emotion-con for crying! So this will have to do.

The World News was bad enough tonight and I sure didn't need more bad news on top of car problems and health problems.

Enough is enough! Sad state of affairs our great country finds its self in! That is what started my downward spiral today.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[MeyerLouie 5]

I have just as much a right to present evidence against a suspect as you do. My research may not lead to the conclusion that Christiansen was Cooper, but I do keep good records. All interviews were voice-recorded and catalogued. Some are on video. I kept extensive notes. I have copies of all the offered documents and pictures. Yes, there are a few reserved from open posting on the internet.

------------------------------------------------------------
You are right Blevins, you have just as much right to post your beliefs and opinions as anyone else here. But every time you open your mouth, Georger goes beserk, and several others continue to question your premises and conclusions. Your story is a broken record, same ol' thing, over and over again, ad nauseum. Don't you think there might really be something to all this criticism directed at you? Insanity is to continue to do the same ol' thing but expect different results.

[georger 268]

But every time you open your mouth, Georger goes beserk, and several others continue to question your premises and conclusions. Your story is a broken record, same ol' thing, over and over again, ad nauseum. Don't you think there might really be something to all this criticism directed at you? Insanity is to continue to do the same ol' thing but expect different results.

[georger 268]

Quote

Quote

I have just as much a right to present evidence against a suspect as you do. My research may not lead to the conclusion that Christiansen was Cooper, but I do keep good records. All interviews were voice-recorded and catalogued. Some are on video. I kept extensive notes. I have copies of all the offered documents and pictures. Yes, there are a few reserved from open posting on the internet.

------------------------------------------------------------
You are right Blevins, you have just as much right to post your beliefs and opinions as anyone else here. But every time you open your mouth, Georger goes beserk, and several others continue to question your premises and conclusions. Your story is a broken record, same ol' thing, over and over again, ad nauseum. Don't you think there might really be something to all this criticism directed at you? Insanity is to continue to do the same ol' thing but expect different results.

Well, you make some good points, and frankly I think I have presented some reasonable evidence that makes Kenny Christiansen's life at least interesting. However, I stopped taking Georger's comments seriously some time ago. When people get personal, no matter what you post, simply because they don't like you...then you tend to take them less seriously as an amateur investigator in the Cooper case.

On points that have nothing to do with KC, it has been the same thing. Let me give you a good example. A while back, Galen Cook posted some pictures of suspect Bill Gossett at the Coast to Coast AM radio website. I noticed that most of the pictures he presented were of Gossett years before the hijacking..all except ONE. And that one was taken less than 18 months after the hijacking. It shows an overweight guy who looks nothing like Cooper, or at least the official sketch. I pointed out that the guy was overweight and looked nothing like the sketch. I also mentioned in passing that he had hairy arms. Instead of addressing the fact that the picture looked nothing like Cooper, most of the people here made fun of the fact I mentioned the guy had hairy arms, and ignored the obvious non-resemblence to the hijacker.

I came right out and said that this showed Galen Cook was misleading people by presenting much earlier pictures, when in reality Gossett looked nothing like Cooper close to the time of the hijacking. Some folks said maybe he just put on all that weight to disguise himself, i.e. to change his appearance. My response: How about a picture of Gossett from 1971, then? Or an FOIA request to see Gossett's duty log records on the week of the hijacking? Laughed off. This is why I think some people live to discuss the case, but shy away from actually solving it, or at least eliminating suspects.

There also seems to be a problem here with actual witness testimony from living people. More people accept the idea that Gossett supposedly told a judge he was Cooper...but that this statement can't be proven because the judge is dead now, and while he was alive he didn't comment on it. Yet people give that supposed statement a lot of credibility.

I don't create conspiracies or hide identities. Because I gave out the names of the witnesses, and said who 'Dawn J' really was (Bernie Geestman's sister) it would be reletively easy for anyone to check out these people on their own.

Another point: I constantly have to remind people here that I don't know, and cannot prove that KC is the hijacker. And...that I am open to the idea of another suspect. If you think about it, this has to be true. Even though there is a certain amount of circumstantial evidence that brings Kenny into the spotlight, there is no way to prove it, and the odds are he WASN'T the guy. I mean...if you were to bet on it. It could even be someone who escaped notice completely and has never been on the suspect list.

I think it's time to move on, too. On Kenny, that is...unless something new comes up. I've presented everything I have on him (although, yes...I am withholding a couple of small things as a control, like the FBI does, which I think makes sense). Look, even I get tired of talking about him. You've seen everything, and like people tell me here, you can go back on this thread and you'll eventually find everything. There are also the Newsvine articles and the book, yes.

Since everything has been presented on KC, it is time to go somewhere else on this thread. Geez...people stop me in the aisle at Fred Meyers and Safeway here in Auburn. Or on the street. Auburn isn't that big, and being on the planning committee for Auburn Days, and landing in the local paper so many times, and the deal with History Channel and Comcast Sports ('Adrenaline Hunter') my face around this town is well-known. My voice wears out answering peoples' questions LOL. I do try to be polite, though.

So yes. Let's move on. If I discover anything new or significant on KC, then I will post it, but anything else would be a rerun. It's probably boring to readers here, and certainly is to me.

"If I'd observed all the rules, I'd never have got anywhere..."

Marilyn Monroe

Well, I think you are sowing misinformation here
again, regarding Mr. Cook.

According to my information your first-ever contact
with Mr. Cook or mention of him, was following his
appearance on a C-to-C program in 2009 in which
he mentioned Lyle Christiansen's appearance on a
radio program in 2007, disavowing any knowledge of
Kenny being linked to the DB Cooper hijacking,
saying that all he was doing was trying to sell a
movie idea since his brother had worked for NWA for
many years, and saying flat-out 'No. I dont think
Kenny was Cooper' ... and you then surfaced out of
nowhere emailing Mr. Cook, and Cook refused to
discuss anything with you, and you got pissed and
then took on Cook 'as the enemy', in behalf of your
and Porteous' book.

Isn't that how, and what happened, and the
timeline? I mean there is a rich one-way
history of you directing criticism at Mr. Cook.

Cook then wrote Mr. Portesous and told him bluntly:
"Call off your attack dog".

Isn't that how it all happened? And Cook has
refused to have anything to do with you ever since.

And the reason you continue to attack Cook here,
2009 to the present. ???

[georger 268]

Quote

Nobody's 'attacking' Cook. I simply questioned the picture. Let's get that straight, please. And Cook's history does not garner confidence. The 'golden key' no one can find, the wasted trip to Vancouver, BC to find Cooper's money in a supposed safety-deposit box, the fact that he went to Alaska several years ago for the summer to write the book proving Gossett was Cooper and he couldn't do it. Couple that with the fact that Cook's only real witnesses are the children of Gossett, well...need I say more? I don't attack the person, I question their claims.

Galen Cook has NEVER really been at Dropzone. Why? Because he can't answer the tough questions. It's easier for him to use proxies here to 'deliver' his messages, or go on radio with George Noory and make claims unsuppported by real evidence. He makes promises of big revelations and nothing ever comes of it. As I've said before, the reason he can't do the book is because he can't write the last chapter...the one proving Gossett was the hijacker. Neither could I, of course. I asked people to judge for themselves.

I also notice (again) you dodged any of the valid points I brought up regarding Gossett now, or in the past. Like the picture. Or the duty logs, which could tell where he was at the time of the crime. He was active-duty US military over the date of the hijacking. This means you could interview the people he worked with, check logs, perhaps see if he had an alibi. Cook, although he has worked on the Gossett possibility for years, never even bothered to try the obvious route and establish alibi.

Lyle Christiansen was a very small part of the investigation on his brother. A few pictures, he gave a name. Everything that happened after that had nothing to do with him. He simply pointed toward his brother and other people took it from there. He didn't interview anyone, he didn't research documents. This small-town senior citizen approached Nora Ephron because frankly, he just didn't know what else to do. We're talking about a retired Post Office worker who just suspected his brother might be Cooper. It was actually Geoff Gray who did the initial work on this, not me. I took it as far as I could, and that's all there is. Do I know if his brother was really Cooper? No.

Moving on now?

"If I'd observed all the rules, I'd never have got anywhere..."

Marilyn Monroe

Well, Marilyn Monroe quoter: seems tome the
question is are you ready to move on and stop
attacking Cook?


b]And Cook's history does not garner confidence.

Doesnt sound to me like you are moving on at all!
And your record and post above don't garner any
confidence you are moving on .... just diverting,
biding time to revisit, dropping misinformation like
you were reporting facts which you arent ....

Why are you asking anyone's permission! You are
and will post anyway .... until the last drop of the
forum's blood.

Lastly: you say "Do I know if his brother was really Cooper? No."

Lyle Christiansen said THAT IN 2007, PUBLICALLY!

So you and Lyle are finally in agreement although
coming from you we already know its just one
more "diversion" stalling for time on your part.

I gues diversion is all we get (and will ever get)
from you.

The world will little note, nor long remember what we
say here, but .... Blevins will have put on a show.
Let's move on to the rest of the show which is going
to happen ... because Blevins has the right!

Buenos Bochos Dochos

[georger 268]

Quote

I have just as much a right to present evidence against a suspect as you do. My research may not lead to the conclusion that Christiansen was Cooper, but I do keep good records. All interviews were voice-recorded and catalogued. Some are on video. I kept extensive notes. I have copies of all the offered documents and pictures. Yes, there are a few reserved from open posting on the internet.

------------------------------------------------------------
You are right Blevins, you have just as much right to post your beliefs and opinions as anyone else here. But every time you open your mouth, Georger goes beserk, and several others continue to question your premises and conclusions. Your story is a broken record, same ol' thing, over and over again, ad nauseum. Don't you think there might really be something to all this criticism directed at you? Insanity is to continue to do the same ol' thing but expect different results.

Well. Productive night. The stage is set. Move on!



Enjoy!



One can always count on a troll being himself.

Truth?

You got a first hand demonstration.

If I'd observed all the rules, I'd never have got anywhere..."

Marilyn Monroe