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snowmman 3
Here's how to make it even better.
On page 665, everyone is required to post only once. Think of it like a 25-way formation. We don't get to advance to page 666 unless there are 25 unique posters on page 665. So 366 makes it complete with the 26 way, on the start of page 666.
So then everyone's in.
Plus. We have to get 25 unique posters.
Plus. Anyone can screw it up by posting twice on page 665.
Kind of boosts the failure probability.
snowmman 3
I don't give interviews.
Why shouldn't I work for the NSA? That's a tough one, but I'll give it a shot. Say I'm working at NSA. Somebody puts a code on my desk, something nobody else can break. So I take a shot at it and maybe I break it. And I'm real happy with myself because I did my job well. But maybe that code was the location of some rebel army in North Africa or the Middle East. Once they have that location, they bomb the village where the rebels were hiding and 1,500 people I never had a problem with get killed. Now the politicians are saying, 'Send in the marines to secure the area' because they don't give a shit. It won't be their kid over there, getting shot. Just like it wasn't them when their number was called because they were pulling a tour in the National Guard. It'll be some guy from Southie taking shrapnel in the ass. And he comes home to find that the plant he used to work at got exported to the country he just got back from. And the guy who put the shrapnel in his ass got his old job, because he'll work for 15 cents a day and no bathroom breaks. Meanwhile my buddy from Southie realizes the only reason he was over there was so we could install a government that would sell us oil at a good price. And of course the oil companies used the skirmish to scare up oil prices so they could turn a quick buck. A cute little ancillary benefit for them but it ain't helping my buddy at $2.50 a gallon. And naturally they're taking their sweet time bringing the oil back and maybe even took the liberty of hiring an alcoholic skipper who likes to drink martinis and play slalom with the icebergs, and it ain't too long until he hits one, spills the oil and kills all the sea life in the North Atlantic. So my buddy's out of work and he can't afford to drive, so he's got to walk to the job interviews, which sucks because the shrapnel in his ass is giving him chronic hemorrhoids. And meanwhile he's starving because every time he tries to get a bite to eat the only blue plate special they're serving is North Atlantic scrod with Quaker State. So what do I think? I'm holding out for something better. Why not just shoot my buddy, take his job and give it to his sworn enemy, hike up gas prices, bomb a village, club a baby seal, hit the hash pipe and join the National Guard? I could be elected president.
snowmman 3
There were a number of estimates of total $ at the time of the find.
$5800 was common.
It's reasonable this was an estimate based on the average # of bills in each bundle, which ckret said was random.
But here's what's strange
this page http://historical.ha.com/c/press-release.zx?releaseId=1509
connected with the recent auction
says Ingram had only 84 bills/fragments.
"Ingram found approximately $5,800 of the $200,000 ransom given to the skyjacker, and the FBI later returned a small portion to his family.
Ingram owns 84 D.B. Cooper bills and fragments."
If Ingram and the insurance company went 50-50, and the FBI only kept 13 or 14 bills, then it doesn't add up..i.e. Brian didn't get enough. Recent account says the FBI has 13
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2008-03-31-hijacker-bills_N.htm
Brian did give or sell at least one bill very early after he got them. Remember the story of the teacher in the school (Sallislaw, OK) he went to after they left California that I posted? The teacher got a bill for his retired FBI agent dad.
back in the thread here:
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3263447;search_string=ingram%20ebay;#3263447
That bill showed up on ebay around the time of the first Ingram auctions. We discussed it here.
So did Brian have more bills before? maybe a small number more than the 84. Or is the 84 wrong?
I wonder if it means that the "3 bundles" really didn't have as many bills as the original estimate implied, once they dissected the bundles?
ancestral: I think I posted the largest photos (cropped) of the money from both auctions here already.
I also posted pictures that someone who actually bought some of the bills, had put on the web.
But my point: If the total number of bills in the Brian find was much less than $5800/$20 = 290, then maybe there were no rubber bands?
They said only one bundle was missing rubber bands. But even if it was missing a lot of bills, there should be more?
84 + 84 + 13 = 181 bills, not 290. Even allowing for 10% randomness of bills per bundle, compared to the original FBI estimate, it seems too far off.
I think we tried to estimate the number of bills from the side thickness of the bundles on the green table photos from 1980. was not conclusive. The 3 bundles were split into 12 stuck-together stacks in those pics.
Now would any stuff found by the FBI be included in that $5800 sum? dunno. They reported it as found by Brian.
ancestral: Ckret said neither the count per bundle, nor the serial number order per bundle was recorded. He wasn't even clear to us on how the rubber bands secured the bundles. One wrap or two or more? (remember the FBI never saw the rubber bands, though).
ckret references:
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3104370;search_string=serial%20numbers;#3104370
snowmman 3
Brian has given multiple descriptions. Some conflicting.
I think his description of all 3 bundles stuck together (i read as on top of each other..they wouldn't stick otherwise)...is the most consistent.
(edit) Arguably, the rubber bands were there, if they were all stuck together, otherwise why would they say "3 bundles"...you need rubber bands around at least two groups, to say there are 3 groups. Otherwise you would just say "a mass" or "lots of bills"
so I guess that supports rubber bands
georger 267
ancestralmanor raises an issue I was wondering about recently.
There were a number of estimates of total $ at the time of the find.
$5800 was common.
It's reasonable this was an estimate based on the average # of bills in each bundle, which ckret said was random.
But here's what's strange
this page http://historical.ha.com/c/press-release.zx?releaseId=1509
connected with the recent auction
says Ingram had only 84 bills/fragments.
"Ingram found approximately $5,800 of the $200,000 ransom given to the skyjacker, and the FBI later returned a small portion to his family.
Ingram owns 84 D.B. Cooper bills and fragments."
If Ingram and the insurance company went 50-50, and the FBI only kept 13 or 14 bills, then it doesn't add up..i.e. Brian didn't get enough. Recent account says the FBI has 13
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2008-03-31-hijacker-bills_N.htm
Brian did give or sell at least one bill very early after he got them. Remember the story of the teacher in the school (Sallislaw, OK) he went to after they left California that I posted? The teacher got a bill for his retired FBI agent dad.
back in the thread here:
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3263447;search_string=ingram%20ebay;#3263447
That bill showed up on ebay around the time of the first Ingram auctions. We discussed it here.
So did Brian have more bills before? maybe a small number more than the 84. Or is the 84 wrong?
I wonder if it means that the "3 bundles" really didn't have as many bills as the original estimate implied, once they dissected the bundles?
ancestral: I think I posted the largest photos (cropped) of the money from both auctions here already.
I also posted pictures that someone who actually bought some of the bills, had put on the web.
But my point: If the total number of bills in the Brian find was much less than $5800/$20 = 290, then maybe there were no rubber bands?
They said only one bundle was missing rubber bands. But even if it was missing a lot of bills, there should be more?
84 + 84 + 13 = 181 bills, not 290. Even allowing for 10% randomness of bills per bundle, compared to the original FBI estimate, it seems too far off.
I think we tried to estimate the number of bills from the side thickness of the bundles on the green table photos from 1980. was not conclusive. The 3 bundles were split into 12 stuck-together stacks in those pics.
Now would any stuff found by the FBI be included in that $5800 sum? dunno. They reported it as found by Brian.
ancestral: Ckret said neither the count per bundle, nor the serial number order per bundle was recorded. He wasn't even clear to us on how the rubber bands secured the bundles. One wrap or two or more?
ckret references:
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3104370;search_string=serial%20numbers;#3104370
dollar amount = no. of serial numbers matched -
this was all pre auction company finding parts of more serial numbers (added about fifteen more?)
The $5800 figure is ........... about as accurate as Brian's memory.
georger 267
Brian was a kid in the middle of adults having a . . .
georger 267
They picked rubber band fragments off back at
the apt as the money was drying etc ...
Bruce,
Brian's decision to auction off what he still had in the D B Cooper money seems to have resulted in an update to the serial numbers because the folks who prepped the money were able to separate bills that were still stuck together and put some of the scraps together to complete serial numbers. See links below.
By comparing photographs of the money when it was found in 1980 with the detailed scans of the remnants that Brian has auctioned off as well as photos of the money that the FBI retains, there are several questions that Brian might particularly help with.
How did the FBI estimate the dollar total for the three stacks if many bills were still stuck together? Would the total have been changed if each bill were separately counted in 1980? Might the $5880 total apportioned between Brian, the insurance company & FBI change?
Has anyone compared the sequence of the serial numbers as recorded with the cluster of numbers found by Brian? If as some reports state, the money was microfilmed by a machine, then it seems possible that it was bundled in the rubber bands in the sequence it came out of the machine.
Were the bundles stacked on top of each other or laying side by side when Brian found them? How deep? Published interviews with Brian seem to indicate right below the surface. Did the FBI bring him back to Tina Bar when they began digging?
What are the sources for claims that the rubber bands would or would not have deteriorated completely if they had been wet for more than a few months or years?
All of the photos appear to indicate only the lacy rotting damage to the money. Not any sort of sand or water friction and grinding. Did Brian see any evidence of other bills with the more traumatic grinding damage?
Brian's web site (only links to images of the 1st 15 bills he sold in 2008)
http://www.dbcoopermoney.com/
Info on serial number update
http://www.coinnews.net/2008/02/27/pcgs-currency-notifies-fbi-of-d-b-cooper-serial-numbers-3953/
"scraps as small as pennies, along with the 13 half-bills and nearly 20 full bills he owns"
http://www.katu.com/news/weird/12985152.html
38 auction images - front and back with FBI inspection initials
http://historical.ha.com/common/auction/pricesrealized.php?src=collection&ID=&optGlobalSearch=&globalSiteDropdown=historical&cboDenomination=All%3A&cboSaleNo=&txtSearch=%22d.+b.+cooper%22&cmdSearch=Search+Auction+Archives&chkFullSearch=1&hdnSearch=True&txtLotNo=&stage=1
Citizen sleuth speculation reports
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2009/03/amateur_detectives_fish_for_db.html
Thanks!
AncestralManor
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