DB Cooper

[skyjack71 0]

I was able to use ancestry.com when my deceased husband had it - but now they won't recognize me and want me to pay the annual fees for now and back charges for the last 2 yr. I told them he had been dead for over 2 yrs - and his credit cards canceled. I was requesting a trial member ship for myself - but they want credit card info and the last time I did something like that on-line - it was hard to ever get the charges off. You authorize 1 month for a trial and then they keep right on billing your card everymonth and it takes an act of congress to get them to stop...and then wait for a credit.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

We have the full social security number for the Ted B. Braden that died in PA.

But I don't think there's anything we could do with it. Too bad we don't have FBI. They could probably get working records based on it?

.

Remember this: I requested from the FBI for 14 yrs the work records of Duane L. Weber and John C. Collins - I have both SS numbers --- the MF's would not do anything, so don't expect they will do it for Braden, since he had light colored eyes and did not fit the other criterior.

I needed the information on the John C. Collins SS so I could prove I was also the widow of John Collins and have access to some safe deposit boxes under that name - early on - in the late 90's. Now these boxes have been secured and the only thing that remains in the unclaimed box records is copies of what was in it and pictures - they are not required to keep this info forever.

Does anyone get the drift of why I am so tiffed about the FBI - information they could have provided me in 1997 - and their refused to do so?????? Why in the world would I have any good feelings about the FBI???? The right answers early on could have saved me lots of time and perhaps my life -as stress certainly doesn't help the body fight disease.

What do any of you think I was asking for very early on - the SS records - working records. These records could have set me free back in 1997 if they didn't pan out, but FBI refused and ignored my request. The refusal of the FBI to provide me with this information only fueled my search and going public and my consequent continued search.
There is absolutely NO reason for the FBI to deny me that information. Without the Jefferson (detail) record I was unable to prove I was the widow of John C. Collins

Sorry, but the FBI sucks - it is not too late for them to provide this information - hence improving my attitude toward the FBI and law enforcement. Right now I have ZERO respect or tolerance for them. Law enforcement arrested a 72 yr old in a retirement home for throwing water and a picture frame at the cleaning lady.

All the old lady did was tell the cleaning woman several times not to do something the way she was doing it. In frustration threw water at the cleaning lady and then in defense threw the picture frame. She was later released - but look what this lady went thru.

LOOK at what I have been thru and the yrs out of my life because of law enforcements REFUSAL to provide me with the information I should have been entitled to. I also asked them to check on a couple of other AKA's, but they claimed those were ONLY mispellings and one was DEFINITELY NOT a misspelling but an actual AKA of Duane Weber's they had NO knowledge of.

I am cranky today because I just got a yr older - and a little closer to that retirement center.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[snowmman 3]

I fully accept that Braden might not be Cooper, because of the description.

he's still an interesting story.

Remember, that a bunch of Carr's theory about Cooper being a whuffo, was based on an opinion of what an expert would do, in that time period.

Also: an expectation of no vietnam experience, based on age. Vietnam is interesting, because of it's strong "grudge" possibility for that time period. Also because of possible skill development, and maybe similar behavior to what Himmelsbach termed "career criminal". (edit) not a dis: more a statement about a society outside of "normal" society.

The expert opinion, and actions, from the SOG folks of the era, which Bruce has relayed, shows that both those ideas are wrong.
(whuffo and notVietnam)
example: Experts that might have applicable opinions (SOG) fully accept that Braden could have done it, and walked away. And Braden's background says he had the skills. So it's not a skill question.

So we're back to the question: Why was Cooper obviously a whuffo again? Because no one ever heard anything from him? And nothing was found (other than money that we can't explain? :)

No one on the planet ever heard from Braden either.

It's funny: Carr says: if Cooper lived, we would have heard about it.

But the SOG guys all kept the rumor of "Braden=Cooper" pretty secret for a long time.

How come the FBI never heard that rumor?

Basically, the FBI is not very good at criminal investigations or theorizing. That was one flawed assumption, that Tom K. still holds. That the FBI is good at solving these kinds of things. They're not.

[1969912 0]

Quote

...I just got a yr older...

Happy Birthday!

"Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ."
-NickDG

[georger 267]

Quote

I fully accept that Braden might not be Cooper, because of the description.

he's still an interesting story.

Remember, that a bunch of Carr's theory about Cooper being a whuffo, was based on an opinion of what an expert would do, in that time period.

Also: an expectation of no vietnam experience, based on age. Vietnam is interesting, because of it's strong "grudge" possibility for that time period. Also because of possible skill development, and maybe similar behavior to what Himmelsbach termed "career criminal". (edit) not a dis: more a statement about a society outside of "normal" society.

The expert opinion, and actions, from the SOG folks of the era, which Bruce has relayed, shows that both those ideas are wrong.
(whuffo and notVietnam)
example: Experts that might have applicable opinions (SOG) fully accept that Braden could have done it, and walked away. And Braden's background says he had the skills. So it's not a skill question.

So we're back to the question: Why was Cooper obviously a whuffo again? Because no one ever heard anything from him? And nothing was found (other than money that we can't explain? :)

No one on the planet ever heard from Braden either.

It's funny: Carr says: if Cooper lived, we would have heard about it.

But the SOG guys all kept the rumor of "Braden=Cooper" pretty secret for a long time.

How come the FBI never heard that rumor?

Basically, the FBI is not very good at criminal investigations or theorizing. That was one flawed assumption, that Tom K. still holds. That the FBI is good at solving these kinds of things. They're not.

Bullshit. (all of it)

[skyjack71 0]

Glad I am not the only one.

Reminds me of a story from the farm: One of our Bulls tore down the fence and he started charging me. Had on RED jeans (1956) and I barely cleared a wooden fence with barbed wire over the top into another area.

I never wore those jeans again!

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[snowmman 3]

georger offered: "Bullshit. (all of it)"

Okay, so you're saying every sentence I wrote in that post is false.?
is that correct?

(edit) Hey wait a second. I thought you left, georger. So you won't be answering this. Sorry. Ignore.

[skyjack71 0]

Since I haven't been able of find anything on those names - I turned them over to others who might be able to find something on them.

The piece of paper was 2 1/2 X 4 and had been folded over and then over again. I still don't know if those names where in that Pocket Atlas or if I put them there after I found them somewhere else. All I can remember is being instructed not to throw it away.

Does anyone know what Continental West was in Colorado. There is NO date anywhere on this thing. Brown with gold writing. The pages say Western Publishing Company
St. Louis, Mo 63110

Probably unrelated, but it is something I have had all of this time - and figured it didn't mean anything. Just strange the page is turned down for Mexico and Western Canada.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[snowmman 3]

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=160168&st=30

[377 22]

Quote

where is 377? he's gone awfully quiet. having fun
with all those cheap jump tickets?

Yes Orange, 377 is a whore for cheap dope.

Snow, I've made dozens of tailgate jumps from CASA 212s but not the later model.

Working on oxygen and radio comm gear for a high altitude HAHO jump in Oct. Been doing 14000 ft HAHOs and just loving it. It really prolongs the sky experience. I love freefall but this has opened my eyes to another dimension of jumping.

Snow's SOG SF RT stuff just fascinates me and I have been reading a lot more. Bruce's follow ups add incredible value. Braden sure makes a great Cooper even if he wasn't.

Sluggo, I once defended a case where an illegal firearms charge was prosecuted. The weapon in question was a hand modfied M1 carbine with "bananna" clip. The seer mech had been altered to produce fully automatic fire. I asked the DA about evidence that the weapon was in fact a machine gun. He said "would you like to shoot it?"

So we make arrangements to shoot it at the police range. I am squeezing off the second short burst and let go of the trigger. This miserable beast of a gun keeps firing until the clip is empty!!!!

So much for homemade machine guns. Kinda scary. I kept my head and just pointed it straight ahead but there was an urge to just toss it which would have been disasterous.

Carry on.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[snowmman 3]

So none of the interviewees made the cut for the c123-k?

377 said "Braden sure makes a great Cooper even if he wasn't. "

well, here's the funny thing for me.
Braden is such a great Cooper, that it blows the whole "let's find an expert" thing. I mean it just means that there's a lot more Vietnam guys of the right age than I realized.

So I have this desire to just accept the "whuffo" theory..i.e. could be anyone, just to be done with it.

Can't figure out the stupid money thing though.

[georger 267]

Quote

georger offered: "Bullshit. (all of it)"

Okay, so you're saying every sentence I wrote in that post is false.?
is that correct?

(edit) Hey wait a second. I thought you left, georger. So you won't be answering this. Sorry. Ignore.

bull·shit (blsht) Vulgar Slang
n.
1. Foolish, deceitful, erroneous and boastful language.
2. Something worthless, deceptive, or insincere.
3. Insolent talk or behavior.
v. bull·shit also bull·shat (-sht) or bull·shit·ted (-shtd), bull·shit·ting, bull·shits
v.intr.
1. To speak foolishly or insolently.
2. To engage in idle conversation.
v.tr.
To attempt to mislead or deceive by talking nonsense. Untrustworthy missleading speech.
adj.

[377 22]

The Slovenians tell me that the C 123K is not an option and that my kids will suffer harm unless we buy their Antonov. I told them not to mess with me cause I know someone high up at Snowmman industries.

They couldn't stop laughing. They said that Snowmman personally brokered the deal to get the Antonovs out of Soviet military hands and into theirs.

My latest thinking is that Cooper was no Whuffo. Too much attention to exit speed and related aircraft configuration. Most whuffos wouldn't even think about exit airspeeds much less flap settings.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[377 22]

There is a lot of research published about the unreliability of eyewitness testimony. Wonder if any studies separately measured ability to correctly recall eye color?

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[snowmman 3]

377 said "My latest thinking is that Cooper was no Whuffo. Too much attention to exit speed and related aircraft configuration. Most whuffos wouldn't even think about exit airspeeds much less flap settings. "

good point 377. I keep forgetting stuff.

And remember he asked for a knapsack. That was unique I think compared to other hijackers?

Weird he would ask for a knapsack, showing some outdoor knowledge, but we say he didn't think clearly enough to wear sensible shoes?

[377 22]

http://www.psychology.iastate.edu/~glwells/Wells_articles_pdf/Applied_Eyewitness-Testimony_Research.pdf

This might lead to some eye color recollection accuracy research.

I mean Braden is too good a Cooper to rule him out on eye color

French Paraboots added quite a bit of height. With trousers pulled over I wonder if they would have been perceived as something different?

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[snowmman 3]

Good recent paper

"Münsterberg’s Legacy: What does eyewitness research tell us about the reliability of eyewitness testimony?"
Amina Memon, Serena Mastroberardino and Joanne Fraser,
School of Psychology,
University of Aberdeen
Scotland

http://www.abdn.ac.uk/~r03kah6/eyewitness/Memon%20et%20al,%202008%20ACP.pdf

This was in
Applied Cognitive Psychology
Volume 22 Issue 6, Pages 841 - 851

Special Issue: Basic and Applied Issues in Eyewitness Research: A Münsterberg Centennial Retrospective

Published Online: 27 Aug 2008

But the link above gets you it for free.

(edit) just scanned the paper. Not as interesting as I thought. Has a list of articles at the end though.

[snowmman 3]

see this book

the link gets you to the page where they did a test (you can read the test to see if you think it applies)
http://books.google.com/books?id=GmWzZlp7imIC&pg=PA119#v=onepage&q=&f=false


Book title
"Adult eyewitness testimony: current trends and developments"
By David F. Ross, J. Don Read, Michael P. Toglia
published 1994

You can read more of the book. there's good stuff

here's more nav links for the book
http://books.google.com/books?id=GmWzZlp7imIC&dq=eyewitness+%22eye+color%22&source=gbs_navlinks_s

[skyjack71 0]

I just got the BEST gift in the WHOLE world. I am not sure what this information means, but it is important and the FBI has to listen now. Everything Duane told me was TRUE - "anyone could get in the Army during wartime - all you needed was a SS".

I just deleted a bunch of things I had typed, because I don't want to over shoot myself - this could fall apart tomorrow, but tonight it is so clear I can see all of the stars. Early today I talked to Duane (I was angry with him) and told him I needed his help and that I couldn't go on this way - that it had to be over.

Now - You have your proof - Jo Weber is dislusional - she talks to dead people.

What do WE have - probable proof that will put Duane Weber in a chute, It is going to take some more research - but it looks like you guys will have to start all the "bullshit" as Georger called it over. The FBI didn't listen to me, but someone else has been listening to me for several yrs and tonight - well, I may have had the answers since day one.
As Duane always said - Hide it in "plane" site. Plain is not mispelled.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[nigel99 610]

Quote

The Slovenians tell me that the C 123K is not an option and that my kids will suffer harm unless we buy their Antonov. I told them not to mess with me cause I know someone high up at Snowmman industries.

They couldn't stop laughing. They said that Snowmman personally brokered the deal to get the Antonovs out of Soviet military hands and into theirs.

My latest thinking is that Cooper was no Whuffo. Too much attention to exit speed and related aircraft configuration. Most whuffos wouldn't even think about exit airspeeds much less flap settings.

377

Attention to exit speed is a good clue. As you probably noted there have been 1 or 2 fatalities or injuries in the past year alone from "experienced" skydivers leaving an incorrectly configured aircraft.

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[377 22]

Good point Nigel and even more instances with non fatal but serious injuries. It isn't just speed. Angle of attack is a factor too. Lodi DZ was sued over a tail strike. An experienced jumper exited during climb, hit the horizontal stab and suffered very serious injuries. Fortunately his canopy deployed.

A tail strike is less of a factor on a tailgate or ventral stair exit but the awareness of speed and the need for flap extension shows me that Cooper knew something about air drops.

When I was a kid I was obsessed with chutes and skydiving but it never occurred to me that exit speed reduction was vitally important. I think most whuffos never consider it.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[377 22]

Jo,

Surely you have more than Duane's "plane sight" spelling to put him in a chute... right?

So what do you have? Don't revert to the tease mode. Put your cards on the table.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[nigel99 610]

Quote

Jo,

Surely you have more than Duane's "plane sight" spelling to put him in a chute... right?

So what do you have? Don't revert to the tease mode. Put your cards on the table.

377

You do realise they are tarrot cards don't you

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[Orange1 0]

Quote

- probable proof that will put Duane Weber in a chute,

what is "probable proof"? is that like being a bit pregnant?
if you have proof, show us! you've been claiming things like this for 2 years or whatever it's been. would be nice to actually see something tangible.
Of course, Duane in a chute is still not Duane as cooper, but it would go a long way towards making people think again.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[377 22]

Quote

Jo Weber is dislusional

Jo,

I get a kick out of your lexicon: "dislusional" and "probable proof". Give us more.

What evidence puts Duane in a parachute? Are you sure it wasn't "pair of shoes"?

Seriously though, if you have evidence that Duane was a jumper this is the place to post it. The FBI has already decided that Cooper was not a jumper. Some of us here are not so sure.

Against my better judgement I still keep searching for evidence of California prison inmate smoke jumpers. So far zero, just inmate ground based fire crews.

Snowmman raises a good point. Both Folsom and San Quentin are far from any air attack fire bases from which smoke jumpers have ever operated. Wearing their jump gear in front of the prison sounds far fetched, but maybe it was done for a good publicity shot.

I am really wondering if you saw a movie poster photo. Also, why would inmates be used when there are so many non criminals who wish to enroll as smoke jumpers? What's the point? Way more risk using inmates and no more reward.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.