DB Cooper

[snowmman 3]

Bruce reported "Ted could’ve used contacts and elevated shoes."

Sounds far fetched.

But: got me wondering: How do you estimate someone's height if he's sitting down? Is the accuracy less if you estimate for a sitting person?

Who saw Cooper standing fully upright, and when?

(edit) Note if he was wearing frenchies or some kind of jump boot, that would have added an inch easy? (or more?)

[BruceSmith 3]

Remember when I said I cancelled my newspaper subscription and how newspaper guys don't work the contacts like they used to, to get all of the story.

Well I take that back.

Bruce is working the rolodex, running up the phone bill..I"m picturing a beatup keyboard, cigarette butts in the ashtray, a scotch, neat, sitting next to the monitor. A broken desklamp that won't stay pointing right, always needing adjustment.....And he gets us a story. Every day.

We just need the cranky editor yelling at him "Bruce, give it up, there's nothing there...now get out to the Little League field and get the scores"...and Bruce shuffles off...but in the parking lot of the baseball field, he finds a mom, who knows someone at the VFW, who knows someone who was 1-2 on RT Iowa.

And Bruce's eyes narrow a bit, and he whispers "You got a phone number for me?"....
and she says "...oh, well you know I'm married"...

"No, No, the 1-2! What's his number!"

[BruceSmith 3]

Quote

Bruce reports: "JD also gave a unique perspective on Ted Braden’s history, saying that Ted received his Lieutenant’s commission in the Korean War, but lost it and was mustered out of the Army after Ted physically beat up a sergeant “who was not moving the men forward.” "


Yeah, everything I ever saw about Braden said Sergeant.
Really surprising he was Lieutenant!

I wonder if Bath can confirm that Braden enlisted during WWII, lying about his age... Hardy confirmed that (maybe from the Ramparts article)...he said 101st airborne?

If so, then he must have left, and joined again later, if he only had 14 years in, in 1966-1967?

JD said that Ted served in WWII and lied about his age. JD said that Ted was out of the military from Korea until he went to "Nam, so from about '52 to '62, '63, which will leave him a little shy of 14 years by '67 when he disappears.

To recap: Enters military in 1944. Leaves Korea 52-ish. That's eight years. Then returns in '62, spends a year or two in training, maybe, and over to "Nam in '64. By '67 Ted had maybe 5 years in, plus the 8 before, to make perhaps 13 years, total, and that's stretching it.

Lots o' t'ings not adding up exactly. How can a couple of super-troopers in Ft. Bragg not know about one of their golden boys jumping in European competitions and getting written up in Stars and Stripes? And how come Ted didn't talk it up when he was in 'Nam? Could Ted have already been working for the CIA in the 50s when he got "booted" out of the Army? Maybe he was on-station in Germany, or eastern Europe, etc, and did a little cover-action with the Golden Arrows, but wasn't really a part of the usual goings on in the 101st community and Ft Bragg?

When I questioned JD about the Germany thing, he strongly held to his beliefs about Ted getting kicked out in Korea and being called back in as an enlisted man just for Vietnam.

Boy, I wish we could find members of his family to talk with. I struck out all day in Florida and PA.

[georger 268]

JD also said that Ted liked to smoke a pipe, and would just go off by himself, have a smoke, and read a book.

“He was a loner. He would just go off by himself.”
JD also described Ted as an educated man with “at least a year or two of college,” and said Ted was well-spoken and articulate.

reply]

You should have picked up on this and asked
what he read - comic books> Tintin?

[snowmman 3]

good details on the years bruce.

Remember that Ted himself ID'ed himself as a cutting edge jumper, for early '60s time period, with the number of freefalls claimed in the Ramparts article.

Duncan intro'ed him in the Ramparts article, and Duncan puts him at Leaping Lena and calls him a "pioneer" with HALO, although the Fort Bragg guys in the '60s might disagree

(although it seems like they were focused on altitude then...they even admit that when they saw the Vietnam situation, they realized their training at Fort Bragg was no where near close enough to what was needed for combat jumps)

I only mention that, because I'm thinking there was the Fort Bragg HALO "experts" who actually didn't know what everyone else in the world was doing.

I think I've mentioned the jump club at the military base in the Phillipines in the 60's. And the Saigon Sport Parachute Club during the '60s at Tan Son Nhut air base.

I think maybe there were lots of jumpers that didn't know what everyone was doing?

I wonder if Ted had PCA membership. I thought the numbers were low thousands in the early '60s, membership-wise.

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

A yellowed piece of paper with 3 names on it:

Huey Hunter US Army

Joseph Cox US Army

Larry McIver US Army

There are complete names with RA#, HqCo. # and one of them says Nev VLM Germany. I will make these available to someone who is able to do the search for me - but do NOT want to make them public if they have something to do with the father of my children - who did serve in Germany and was discharged around 1959 - I am thinking these names are in connectioned to him and NOT Duane.

Not feeling very good so I am going to lie down - I may check the forum later. Thanks.

Would someon direct me to a data base that has the information on it and I will look for it myself - they are all ARMY and 2 of them were had Germany addresses - has to be in the late 50's and if these belonged to Duane - I don't have a clue.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[snowmman 3]

"When I questioned JD about the Germany thing, he strongly held to his beliefs about Ted getting kicked out in Korea and being called back in as an enlisted man just for Vietnam."

Well this is false. He was part of the indigenous jump training before MACV-SOG started doing any inserts of Americans! and that was Laos (for the inserts). I've posted this detail from "The Blood Road" aalready.

I think he got recruited to Leaping Lena because of his jump skills?

I had thought Hardy said he came from the Snakebite teams in Okinawa (1st Special Forces Group) but rereading the green below, I think I misunderstood Hardy.

They were the first teams into Laos in the early 60s

Leaping Lena was in 1964
SOG was created in 1964 after that

Hardy puts Braden on Strike Team Idaho first

ST Idaho is originally manned by 1st Group Snake Bite teams from Okinawa in 1965. The team runs operations from Kham Duc but moves to FOB#1 Phu Bai at the end of 1966. ST Idaho is one of the original five recon teams trained at Camp Long Thanh and transferred to Kham Duc. 1966 finds ST Idaho at Kham Duc with Ted Braden [Ed. Hardy misspelled Braden's name] the 1-0 and Jim Hetrick the 1-1 until June of that year.

from wikipedia

On 21 September 1965 the Pentagon authorized MACSOG to begin cross-border operations within Laos in areas contiguous to the South Vietnam's western border.

MACV had sought authority for the launching of such missions (Operation Shining Brass) since 1964 in an attempt to put boots on the ground in a reconnaissance role to observe, first hand, the enemy logistical system known as the Ho Chi Minh Trail (the Truong Son Road to the North Vietnamese).

MACV, through the Seventh Air Force, had begun carrying out strategic bombardment of the logistical system in southern Laos in April (Operation Steel Tiger) and had received authorization to launch an all-Vietnamese recon effort (Operation Leaping Lena) that had proven to be a disaster.

U.S. troops were necessary and SOG was given the green light. In November the first American-led insertion was launched against target Alpha-1, a suspected truck terminus on Laotian Route 165, 15 miles inside Laos.

The mission was deemed a success, but the operations in Laos were fraught with peril, and not just from the enemy. William H. Sullivan, U.S. ambassador to Laos, was determined that he would remain in control over decisions and operations that took place within the supposedly neutral kingdom."

[snowmman 3]

Two Huey Hunters that enlisted for WWII

Name: Huey Hunter
Birth: 1909
Military: 2 Sep 1942 - enlisted at Salt Lake City, Utah
Residence: Salt Lake City, Utah
Marital Status: Married
Height: 68
Weight: 179
Born: Arkansas
Civil Occcupation: Statistician
White

second
Name: Huey Hunter
Birth: 1915
Military: 17 Feb 1943 - enlisted at Fort Benning, Georgia
Residence: Jefferson, Alabama
Born: Alabama
Height: 73
Weight: 177
Negro.

this info is from ancestry.com
you have to pay for a subscription.

There's a Huey Hunter who was USAF Vietnam, but I'm expecting you like the older ones for Duane.

[snowmman 3]

Operation Barrel Roll was first in 1964, followed by Operation Steel Tiger.

(edit) Leaping Lena was May/June 1964. Project Delta of 5th Special Forces Group did it, because SOG wasn't going yet.
http://books.google.com/books?id=bf-dV37qumMC&pg=PA82&lpg=PA82&dq=%22leaping+Lena%22+1964&source=bl&ots=R_FM4Ukdc3&sig=3MNO1-O8_7y12O7m7gwyLIsv2I4&hl=en&ei=Ln6TStnCBZSksgOqu9DiDw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3#v=onepage&q=%22leaping%20Lena%22%201964&f=false
"five South Vietnamese commando teams parachuted into Laos, two of them above Tchepone, the rest south of Routh 9. A handful of survivors made it back to friendly positions. The rest disappeared"

(covert bombing in Laos)

from wikipedia
Operation Barrel Roll was a covert U.S. Air Force 2nd Air Division (later the Seventh Air Force) and U.S. Navy Task Force 77, interdiction and close air support campaign conducted in the Kingdom of Laos between 14 December 1964 and 29 March 1973 concurrent with the Vietnam War.

The original purpose of the operation was to serve as a signal to the Democratic Republic of Vietnam (North Vietnam) to cease its support for the insurgency then taking place in the Republic of Vietnam (South Vietnam). This action was taken within Laos due to the location of North Vietnam's expanding logistical corridor known as the Ho Chi Minh Trail (the Truong Son Road to the North Vietnamese), which ran from southwestern North Vietnam, through southeastern Laos, and into South Vietnam. The campaign then centered on the interdiction of that logistical system. Beginning during the same time frame (and expanding throughout the conflict) the operation became increasingly involved in providing close air support missions for Royal Lao Armed Forces, CIA-backed tribal mercenaries, and Thai "volunteers" in a covert ground war in northern and northeastern Laos. Barrel Roll and the "Secret Army" attempted to stem an increasing tide of People's Army of Vietnam (PAVN) and Pathet Lao offensives.

Barrel Roll was one of the most closely-held secrets and one of the most unknown components of the American military commitment in Southeast Asia. Due to the neutrality of Laos, guaranteed by the Geneva Conference of 1954 and 1962, both the U.S. and North Vietnam strove to maintain the secrecy of their operations and only slowly escalated military actions there. As much as both parties would have liked to have publicized their enemy's violation of the accords, both had more to gain by keeping their own roles quiet.[1] Regardless, by the end of the conflict in 1973, Laos emerged from nine years of war just as devastated as any of the other Asian participants in the Vietnam War.


from wikipedia

Operation Steel Tiger was a covert U.S. 2nd Air Division, later Seventh Air Force and U.S. Navy Task Force 77 aerial interdiction effort targeted against the infiltration of People's Army of Vietnam (PAVN) men and material moving south from the Democratic Republic of Vietnam (DRV or North Vietnam) through southeastern Laos to support their military effort in the Republic of Vietnam (RVN or South Vietnam) during the Vietnam Conflict.

The operation was initiated by the 2nd Air Division on 3 April 1965, continued under the direction of the Seventh Air Force when that headquarters was created on 1 April 1966, and was concluded on 11 November 1968 with the initiation of Operation Commando Hunt. The purpose of Steel Tiger was to impede the flow of men and materiel on the enemy logistical routes collectively known as the Ho Chi Minh Trail (the Truong Son Strategic Supply Route to the North Vietnamese).

Bombing of the trail system had begun on 14 December 1964 with the advent of Operation Barrel Roll. Due to increasing U.S. intelligence of the build-up of regimental-size PAVN units operating in South Vietnam, the increased American military presence in that country, and the initiation of Operation Rolling Thunder, the systematic bombing of the DRV, American planners in Washington and Saigon decided that the bombing in southeastern Laos should be stepped up.

It was estimated by U.S. intelligence analysts that, during 1965, 4,500 PAVN troops were infiltrated through Laos along with 300 tons of materiel each month.[1] From April through June 1966, the U.S. launched 400 B-52 Stratofortress anti-infiltration sorties against the trail system.[2] By the end of 1967 and the absorption of Steel Tiger operations into Operation Commando Hunt, 103,148 tactical air sorties had been flown in Laos. These strikes were supplemented by 1,718 B-52 Arc Light strikes. During the same time frame, 132 U.S. aircraft or helicopters had been shot down over Laos.[3]

[snowmman 3]

you have to read the whole page, to see where they did the training later, and the smokejumper suits. We referenced this page before, but before we knew about ted.

There's a number of names of folks.

from http://www.projectdelta.net/delta_history.htm

In early 1964, US Army Special Forces-Vietnam was tasked to provide training, and assistance in the development of Vietnamese Reconnaissance Teams directed at targets in Laos. Under LTC George A. Viney, a hand picked team of US Special Forces personnel, led by CPT William J. Richardson, Jr, began training indigenous personnel from several different ethnic groups, to include Vietnamese Special Forces. Trained in reconnaissance methods and techniques, which included infiltration by parachute into the trees, these individuals were readied for insertion into Laos. This effort was code-named "Leaping Lena."

"Leaping Lena" was the name of the operation. PROJECT DELTA became the name of the organization.

...

After the initial training exercises, which were conducted with eight man teams accompanied by one American, President Lyndon Johnson authorized covert cross border operations, but prohibited participation by U.S. advisors.


Between 24 June and 1 July 1964, five teams, laden with combat equipment, and wearing smoke jumper gear, parachuted into the jungle of Laos along Route 9 east of Tchepone. Each team was composed of eight Vietnamese Special Forces, and each team would operate as a separate entity.

Two teams were inserted north of Highway 9 astride Route 92; and three south in the direction of Muong Nong. This area was selected primarily because of the jungle canopy, which had to be horizontal to make a good tree jump, and insure hang up in the trees for maximum survivability. However, the insertion was less than good. One man was killed repelling from the jungle canopy, and several others were injured.

Without American leadership and control, Leaping Lena had been doomed to failure. Despite specific warnings against going into villages, most of the agents went into the villages in search of food, and were captured or killed. Only five survivors were able to evade capture, and exfiltrate the area.

The five who did get out reported encountering company size elements of VC, and every bridge on Route 9 guarded by soldiers, which appeared to be Pathet Lao. Each team had a specific mission, and was to collect information on enemy activity, to include movement of trucks, artillery, and heavy equipment. They were to look for any signs of troop movements of intact units such as companies or battalions.


Although Leaping Lena was classified a failure, The intelligence developed or generated from the five team members who returned, was much more than MACV had prior to that time. It was determined the area was alive with enemy ground forces, and many were equipped with NVA uniforms. Every culvert on every road, and every bridge, had a minimum of two enemy personnel guarding it. Additional roads, not detectable by air, were discovered, and the movement of convoys noted. The teams found these through eyeball contact. Units as large as battalion-size were observed, including one that was in the act of crossing into Vietnam west of Khe Sanh. This sighting was confirmed by a helicopter crew sent out to rendezvous with one of the teams.

[Sluggo_Monster 0]

All,


I kinda view myself as a “librarian” in the recent investigations of NORJACK, but everyone else (it seems) is “doing research.” Jerry Thomas is researching, Tom Kaye is doing his kind of research, Bruce (Cuz) is doing his kind of research, Galen Cook is researching, Geoff Gray is researching, etc. Well today, I decided to do some “research” on my own.

So, here’s my first attempt at NORJAK Research:

Two statements in a newspaper article (taken together) have led people to the belief that McNally took a machine gun out of a trombone case.

1st Statement:
Sullivan said the hijacker was carrying an automatic rifle or a "grease gun," which he described as being like a machine gun.

2nd Statement:
Todd Nelson, a Tulsa Oklahoma postman who boarded the plane at St. Louis, said a Catholic priest who was a passenger on the hijacked plane told him the was carrying a black trombone case. (This is obviously hearsay.)

So the question (hypothesis) becomes: Can you put a machine-gun in a trombone case?

To test this hypothesis I obtained a machine gun, another assault weapon, and a trombone case. I was not able to get the machine-gun into the trombone case. (See photo Machine-Gun Trombone.jpg)

I also tried to put another assault weapon in a trombone case. Again, I was unsuccessful. (See photo Any Assault Weapon.jpg)

My conclusion:
McNally did not get the machine-gun from the trombone case. This is an example of another “NORJAK MYTH.”

I feel really good about contributing by “doing research.” I think I’ll do a lot more research in the future.

Sluggo_Monster



Awh... get over it! I’m just glad to be home and having some fun. No harm no foul!

Web Page
Blog
NORJAK Forum

[snowmman 3]

McNally's weapon was a ".45 caliber" machine gun according to court docs

It was provided by Petlikowsky

I thought I read that it was sawed down but forget

I don't know what weapon he had in 1972
But a mac 10 can be .45 caliber, and it was first designed in 1970
mac 10 is pretty small.

thompson m1 is another .45

(edit) apparently he had a hand grenade also? (not sure if real)

(edit) ok here's where the gun was "cut down"

Chicago Tribune Jul 2, 1972

McNally had made elaborate plans to hijack a plane. They had talked about it with friends for at least six months. They cut down the machinegun, ...

(edit) This article says it was cut down to fit in a brief case
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=w9IMAAAAIBAJ&sjid=3mADAAAAIBAJ&pg=7236,132544&dq=brief+case

(edit) The Chicago Tribune article above goes further and agrees it's a briefcase. Apparently he used it to hold his disguise also?

McNally had made elaborate plans to hijack a plane. ... "McNally took his brief case to the washroom on the plane and donned his hippie-type bushy hair wig and dark glasses and got out his machinegun ..."


So sounds like Sluggo is right. Trombone case is myth?

(edit) Sluggo: you need to cut down a weapon and try to fit it in a briefcase. Although, since the mac-10 probably fits without cutting, without more detail on McNally, it's probably not worth the effort.

[snowmman 3]

what I don't understand is "metal foregrip".
Also: why would a M3 have to be "cut down" ?? (edit) maybe the barrel?
see attached pic.

(edit) from http://altlaw.org/v1/cases/464749

"During the search [of his home], the agents found certain books and charts connected with aviation, a box of .45 caliber ammunition, a rifle stock, a metal foregrip for a .45 caliber machine gun, and a .45 caliber M-3 cartridge magazine.

from wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M3_submachine_gun

"The M3 was an American .45-caliber submachine gun that entered US Army service on December 12, 1942 as the United States Submachine Gun, Cal. .45, M3 and began to replace the .45-caliber Thompson series submachine guns: the M1928A1, M1 and M1A1 that were slowly being withdrawn from use. The M3 was designed from the outset as a more cost-effective alternative to the Thompson, optimized for mass production. The M3 is commonly referred to as the "grease gun", owing to its visual similarity to the common mechanic's tool."

[Sluggo_Monster 0]

Quote

(edit) Sluggo: you need to cut down a weapon and try to fit it in a briefcase. Although, since the mac-10 probably fits without cutting, without more detail on McNally, it's probably not worth the effort.

Man! Are you kidding me...? Now I have a excuse to buy a MAC-10!

I can tell Sugar when she says; "What another damn gun? That's all we need in this house, another freaking assault weapon!" I'll say; "But baby... I'm doing RESEARCH for DZ.com and I had to have it to complete my RESEARCH!"



'da Slug

Web Page
Blog
NORJAK Forum

[snowmman 3]

http://www.newlaunches.com/archives/the_magpul_folding_machine_gun_is_deceptive_yet_dangerous.php

compact AND discreet.

click the video link at the url.

Ah, gotta love the USA!

[Orange1 0]

Quote

, including the heavy usage of brides and financial pay-offs to get things done.

Good stuff again Bruce, tho I assume the above was a typo Braden hasn't yet been described as a matchmaker?!

How widely available were colored contact lenses in the early 70s? Although if he was already mixing it up in CIA circles not hard to come by. Or did I read too many spy stories in the old days? (An aside: I loved Cold War spy fiction. I'm glad the Cold War is over, but I really miss the spy novels. Although now lots of the stuff is unclassified a lot of the non-fiction works are just as good!)

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[Orange1 0]

Quote

I feel really good about contributing by “doing research.” I think I’ll do a lot more research in the future.

Sluggo, this is great although I am somewhat alarmed by the ease with which you appear to be able to obtain assault weapons

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[snowmman 3]

from a web page

"The American firm Bausch & Lomb licensed the technology and launched their Softlens in 1971. That first year alone, the firm sold about 100,000 pairs, and soft contact lenses have had great appeal with the public ever since."


Although: I was wondering if Cooper's eyes were dilated (drug? maybe from sunglasses?) if they would have appeared brown if the pupils were large enough.

I got to wondering about that, because I thought Braden's pupils were surprisingly large, for being photographed with an obviously bright light on over his head. (see photo)

[snowmman 3]

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=FmMQAAAAIBAJ&sjid=0pADAAAAIBAJ&pg=1520,5661280&dq=softlens+colored

this article gives some background.
colored for normal thin lens (hard plastic although soft plastic is also mentioned since the "soft lens" is relatively new at that time)

says that before this, the colored or "cosmetic" lenses were thicker than ordinary contact lenses...more difficult to fit and uncomfortable to wear..."Consequently, colored lenses were worn mainly by patients whose eyes had lost their color or had been badly scarred, or by actors in films"

So I guess it can't be ruled out?

[snowmman 3]

Display Ad 468 -- No Title
Pay-Per-View - Los Angeles Times - ProQuest Archiver - Sep 26, 1971
Plus New "SOFLENS" CONTACT LENSES (Poolymcon). IK)UV 0NEaTOLTD COVED. T F2. OLD STYLE CONTACTS REF.aTED . . . and in color too change the color of your eyes from Brown to Blue... ...

[Orange1 0]

thanks snow... i.o.w. they would have been available commercially pretty easily presumably.
someone already mentioned the possibility of fake tan.
you mentioned the difficulty judging height from a seated position. (and this would not be the same for everyone of the same height standing up either: some people have long torsos and short legs and some have short torsos and long legs.)

where is 377? he's gone awfully quiet. having fun
with all those cheap jump tickets?

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[snowmman 3]

Quote

where is 377? he's gone awfully quiet. having fun
with all those cheap jump tickets?

He said he was accepting delivery of the C-123K, and interviewing some applicants for pilot/jumpers at the hanger.
He might just be screwing off though.

Aero Contractors Ltd
3463 Swift Creek Rd
Smithfield, NC 27577

(edit) Has anyone done a tailgate jump from a CASA CN-235?
(377 is probably going to give us some story..he's got one for every plane :) )

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/31/national/31planes.html?pagewanted=1&ei=5090&en=6087acc3480a296c&ex=1275192000&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss

[Sluggo_Monster 0]

Yea... I know... it's a Second Amendment "Thang" that Southerners are passionate about. Some are willing to die for. I'm pretty moderate for where I live, and I won't turn this into a political discussion.

But you have to remember, not only am I licensed to handle assault weapons, I get to handle NUCLEAR Weapons. Even California and New Jersey (the two most anti-gun states in the US) let me handle Nukes. (But they won't honor my concealed carry permit (go figure???))

So, you can trust me with the assault weapons... honest... I'm law abiding... I wouldn't hurt a flea... I just need those guns to hunt (sparrows & chipmunks)... I voted for Obama... I'm a card-carrying ACLU Life-member (and an NRA Life-Member)... that prison thing in the 60s was just a misunderstanding (she had it coming)... and I was just visiting a friend in the asylum... and the "no contact" order on my last wife expires in just three months... but when I filled out the form to purchase the guns, I answered "NO" to everything, so they let me take them home.

Web Page
Blog
NORJAK Forum

[skyjack71 0]

Thanks but the Vietman one may be a better bet. Those 2 guys are WAY too old - even Duane was not born until 1924.

I will check them out because they could pertain to the missing yrs 1945-1949. A period even the FBI refused to look at and if they did they didn't tell me.

It is my understanding the FBI is DOING NOTHING as far as investigating any leads on Cooper anymore. Someone will have to have the damn ticket or a picture of Cooper on the plane.

Thank you for doing this - and if you would please get the other Huey for me. I am used to this format so I don't have to see what I am typing real well. I dread doing much on the computer because I am having a real hard time reading...due to some serious problem with my left eye.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[snowmman 3]

I know some people will say they just like the act of shooting a weapon.

But isn't part of it, is having something "more" than what you perceive others have?

For instance assault rifles.

What happens when everyone is loaded up? Does it ever get boring?

What if everyone has RPG's? Does that mean it's less interesting for someone to own an assault rifle?

I'm just wondering.

Does it really stop at some point, like if you can shoot N people in N secs..or is it always relative?

Seems like if it is, the laws of probablity say you really really want to be wearing bulletproof vests all the time.
If everyone is armed, then having something of your own is only going to be a small contributor to the likelihood of you coming out on top?

And then you have to ask: what kind of armor wear?
If I know you can't penetrate my armor gear, then you're pretty much SOL...I can get you with anything?
Or sniper fire? Does one just not worry about it?

(edit) I'll use the case of professionals (SOG) in Vietnam getting shot, by way of example.