DB Cooper

[Orange1 0]

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Wish we could have a solution to the Snowmman vs Georger and Jo split.

Snow adds so much value, I just hate to see him depart.

Any ideas?

377

Yes. Ideally I'd put it to a forum vote, but as that is impractical I would suggest that people simply ignore posts from others who irritate them... I also want to see Snow hang around. And Sluggo.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[quade 4]

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Question: am I correct (or am i misinformed by movies) that the usual address by a military person to a woman is "ma'am"?

Yes, but it's certainly not exclusive in that use at all. I'm not sure you can seriously get anything from that; it's simply the "shortened" version of Madam and a generic title for females just like Sir is used when addressing a male. Perhaps it's less used by more recent generations, but was certainly in wide spread use not long ago.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Orange1 0]

ah ok, sure...maybe we are all guilty of joining dots where we want to see them
I guess what we ought to do is get someone to ask the stewardesses whether "ma'am" was a common form of address in those days or not. Even that probably wouldn't tell us much I guess.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[georger 268]

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ah ok, sure...maybe we are all guilty of joining dots where we want to see them
I guess what we ought to do is get someone to ask the stewardesses whether "ma'am" was a common form of address in those days or not. Even that probably wouldn't tell us much I guess.

Ma'am is Texas drawl. Cooper had no accent.
Where was Ted Bradon from. Dont use Google.
Use other search engines.

There is no Georger vs Snowmman split.
There is a Snowmman vs Snowmman split,
Smowmman vs TK, Snowmman vs H, Snowmman vs
Carr, Snowmman vs Thomas etc etc.

In the final analysis any forum member's opinions
are just that - opinions. Snow has made mistakes
just as the above people have made mistakes.
For anyone to take that personally seeking some kind of moral victory is another mistake.

Im only going to post on the things that interest
me, which means not posting much at all. It just
isnt worth the hassle to do otherwise and accomplishes
nothing under the current regime. I might have a few surprises for you along the way, if things work out.

As far as I am concerned Snowmman is just one person here. Snow is however very good at generating IDEAS - that is the real power behind his searches. Snow seems to want a free field to conduct his labors
in so I hope he will continue since he basically has been given a free open field here, just as Orange1
and 377 want. I hope he continues, for the sake of the forum.


I will say this: I have been working on Safe's 9-Solutions trying to make sense of it. I think Snowmman could have done better than Safe did.
I may post later on that, or may not. I'm undecided.
(Snow may beat me to it and if he does that works for me). I am no longer as devoted to this forum as I once was and my approach to this forum has changed 180 degrees. I am working mainly with other people
behind the scenes; some of that may surface here
as time goes by. I hope so. But Wm Waugh is a good lead. It may be the first tangible lead we have had to
resolving a few things, including the comic book connection. My advice is we all focus on that and get beyond the Jerry Springer crappola. Some will be able
to, and some won't. Nobody should take that personally.

[377 22]

Good post Georger. Welcome back.

Hope we can contnue in the spirit your post offers.

If we do, Snow might come back.

I do wonder if Billy W was checked out by the FBI. Even if he wasn't Cooper, he would have made a great Cooper. That, coupled with his Cooper lookalike looks, should have put him on someone's radar.

Sometimes I wonder if Quade isn't right and that Cooper was a rank amateur in waaaay over his head. Our searches may lead us to the ideal Cooper, not necessarily the real Cooper. That's because we know a lot about what he did and we look for links to those actions. We know almost nothing about who he was so we have little personal stuff to pursue other than his appearance.

I have to constantly remind myself that Cooper may have had nothing to do with SE Asia covert air ops or smoke jumping or even skydiving. The Quade Cooper is that Cooper.

My Cooper (reflecting bias not logic) is a trained jumper at the very least and a Billy W type at the most.

Which Cooper would Occam choose?

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[georger 268]

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Good post Georger. Welcome back.

Hope we can contnue in the spirit your post offers.

If we do, Snow might come back.

I do wonder if Billy W was checked out by the FBI. Even if he wasn't Cooper, he would have made a great Cooper. That, coupled with his Cooper lookalike looks, should have put him on someone's radar.

Sometimes I wonder if Quade isn't right and that Cooper was a rank amateur in waaaay over his head.
Our searches may lead us to the ideal Cooper, not necessarily the real Cooper. That's because we know a lot about what he did and we look for links to those actions. We know almost nothing about who he was so we have little personal stuff to pursue other than his appearance.

I have to constantly remind myself that Cooper may have had nothing to do with SE Asia covert air ops or smoke jumping or even skydiving. The Quade Cooper is that Cooper.

My Cooper (reflecting bias not logic) is a trained jumper at the very least and a Billy W type at the most.

Which Cooper would Occam choose?

377

Thanks. Records are being searched. Something
should surface. Im working through the system
quickly, everything above board, with a SOG veteran. We will send a forum member anything found for his evaluation then we will see what to do next -

Whoever, had to be available. Records should clear
that up. A Dishonorable could have been grounds for
a grudge, if the person was even available. Age and
appearance must also fit.

But it is a solid lead that must be examined.

Snowmman, get your butt back. We are down to
stripped staff and we need your input! You have
the free field you need and want . . .

[quade 4]

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Ma'am is Texas drawl.

Only if the only thing a person has ever been exposed to in their entire life are movies about the old west (or possibly if they'd like to make a connection where one can't be logically drawn).

Otherwise, it's pretty universal.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[snowmman 3]

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Ma'am is Texas drawl.

Only if the only thing a person has ever been exposed to in their entire life are movies about the old west (or possibly if they'd like to make a connection where one can't be logically drawn).

Otherwise, it's pretty universal.

I hate creating errors, since the Cooper case is rife with them.

When I copied "Fort Bragg", and posted "Texas".. I assumed Fort Bragg, Texas.
But now I see it was Fort Bragg, NC. I'm not going to research though. I didn't realize there were two. Fort Bragg, NC is interesting for its own reasons (read up on it. don't know about 1971).

Billy was born in Bastrop, TX, 26 mi S of Austin.
You can read his bio here
http://billywaugh.net/bio.htm

I don't know why georger is talking about dishonorable discharges.

See it's pointless. Sometimes it feels like you guys don't read half the stuff I post, or maybe you just don't understand it.
Sure I'm stupid, But at least I read and can digest and edit information.

It doesn't really matter though. The forum has no assets. Don't need to be talking, need to be doing. Need firepower.

[quade 4]

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But now I see it was Fort Bragg, NC. I'm not going to research though.

If you've been working on a skydiving story for as long as you have and don't automatically associate with Fort Bragg, NC, then you really haven't been doing your research.

Frankly, I'm surprised.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[georger 268]

I don't know why georger is talking about dishonorable discharges.

[georger 268]

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Ma'am is Texas drawl.

Only if the only thing a person has ever been exposed to in their entire life are movies about the old west (or possibly if they'd like to make a connection where one can't be logically drawn).

Otherwise, it's pretty universal.

I may have mispoken. I wasnt referring just to
some John Wayne's version of Maaaaaaam.
See:

http://www.ling.upenn.edu/phono_atlas/home.html

and attached phonological dialect maps:

I tried to make this point with Ckret but got
nowhere. Cooper spoke an Earth language
linking to somewhere; maybe just where hearers said it did.

No accent means no perceived accent because that
is all it can mean, as defined by those who heard it,
who must have shared some common regional trait
in order to make their consensus judgment.

No accent either has a definition or it is meaningless.

[377 22]

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But now I see it was Fort Bragg, NC. I'm not going to research though.

If you've been working on a skydiving story for as long as you have and don't automatically associate with Fort Bragg, NC, then you really haven't been doing your research.

Frankly, I'm surprised.

There is a Ft Bragg CA too, a lumber mill and commercial fishing town on the Mendocino coast. The mill shut down a few years back and the Feds have closed the commercial salmon season for the second year in a row. Hard times up there.

Wonder why there are so many Ft Braggs? Odd.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[skyjack71 0]

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If you've been working on a skydiving story for as long as you have and don't automatically associate with Fort Bragg, NC, then you really haven't been doing your research.

Frankly, I'm surprised.

I did a copy and Paste regarding Fort Bragg and its related facilities for those who feign no knowledge of the facility. Did Weber have any association with these areas? Check it out! I didn't have to.


Related Facilities
Fort Bragg
Camp Mackall
Mackall Army Airfield
Simmons Army Airfield

Ports of Embarkation
Pope AFB
Port of Charleston, SC
Units
XVIII Airborne Corps
16th Military Police Brigade
18th Aviation Brigade Corps (Abn)
18th Corps Soldiers Support Group
18th Personnel Group
20th Engineer Brigade (Abn)
35th Signal Brigade
44th Medical Brigade
82d Replacement Detachment
525th Military Intelligence Brigade
1112th Signal Battalion
1st Brigade / 82d Airborne Division
2d Brigade / 82d Airborne Division
3d Brigade / 82d Airborne Division
Dragon Brigade
USA JFK Special Warfare Center
USA Special Operation Command
Official Homepage
Fort Bragg








Fort Bragg
Fort Bragg is located just west of Fayetteville, North Carolina. One of the largest and busiest military complexes in the world, Fort Bragg hosts America's only airborne corps and airborne division, the "Green Berets" of the Special Operations Command, and the Army's largest support command. 82nd Airborne Division soldiers and others make 100,000 parachute jumps each year at Fort Bragg.

By population, Fort Bragg is the largest Army installation in the world, providing a home to almost 10 percent of the Army’s active component forces. Approximately 43,000 military and 8,000 civilian personnel work at Fort Bragg. Every day approximately military and civilian employees in careers ranging from trades and labor to engineers and attorneys provide the services needed to train, sustain, and deploy the combat forces to America's Crisis Response Contingency Corps and Special Operations Forces. Their common daily focus is on training, deploying, mobilizing, and demobilizing America’s strategic response forces and providing first-class services in such areas as retail, recreation, medicine, and education. The Fort provide those services to a customer base of more than 250,000 soldiers, civilians, family members, and retirees.

Fort Bragg occupies an irregularly-shaped parcel of land, covering approximately 160,700 acres (or 251 square miles), that stretches into four counties and Camp Mackall covers an additional three counties. Fort Bragg occupies 161,000 acres , stretching into six counties. Included within this area are Camp MacKall (an auxiliary training complex), 7 major drop zones, 4 impact areas, 82 ranges, 16 live fire maneuver areas, and 2 Army airfields. As we focus on potential force protection threats, we must consider the fact that approximately 75 percent of our acreage includes ranges, deployment and training areas, with the remaining 25 percent dedicated to those areas where people live, work and play. Fort Bragg is a major city, providing approximately 20 million square feet of office buildings, 11 shopping centers, 28 restaurants, 11 miles of railroad lines, a major medical center, 8 schools, 11 churches, 183 recreational facilities, and approximately 5,000 homes housing over 11,000 family members.

The Fort is a significant economic presence in North Carolina, contributing an estimated $4.1 billion annually to local communities. Fort Bragg and Pope Air Force Base generate retail sales of approximately $2 billion for Cumberland County. Military personnel expenditures have proved to be a vital source of economic growth and development for both the city of Fayetteville and Cumberland County. Cumberland County's median income including military is approximately $29,000 annually compared to $22,000 annually, excluding the military.

In 1918, Congress established Camp Bragg, an Army field artillery site named for the Confederate General Braxton Bragg. An aviation landing field named after 1st Lt. Harley H. Pope, whose JN-4 Jenny crashed in the Cape Fear River, was added a year later. After five years, Camp Bragg became a permanent Army post renamed Fort Bragg. Today, Fort Bragg and Pope Air Force Base comprise one of the world's largest military installations.

"Camp Bragg" was established in 1918 when the Army needed to expand its field artillery training facilities in preparation for World War I. They chose this location because it met the major criteria: a climate suitable for year-round training and close proximity to a port and rail transportation. The post came into existence in 1918, when 127,000 acres of desolate sand hills and pine trees were designated as a U.S. Army installation. Named for Confederate General Braxton Bragg, a former artillery officer from North Carolina, the camp became Fort Bragg in 1922, after Congress decided all artillery sites east of the Mississippi River should become permanent posts. The camp was redesignated as Fort Bragg, Sept. 30, 1922.

Fort Bragg's rich "airborne" history and tradition was launched in 1934 with the first military parachute jump, which used artillery observation balloons as platforms. However, it wasn't until two decades later that the post became an airborne training site.

The fort grew slowly, reaching a total of 5,400 soldiers by the summer of 1940. With the threat of World War II and passage of the Selective Service Act, a reception station was built here and Fort Bragg exploded to a population of 67,000 soldiers within a year. In 1942, the first airborne units trained here in preparation for combat. All five World War II airborne divisions the 82nd, 101st, 11th, 13th and 17th, trained in the Fort Bragg-Camp Mackall area. The 82nd Airborne Division was assigned here in 1946, upon its return from Europe. In 1951, XVIII Airborne Corps was reactivated here and Fort Bragg became widely known as the “home of the airborne.”

The Psychological Warfare Center (now U.S. Army Special Operations Command) was established here in 1952 and Fort Bragg became headquarters for special forces soldiers.

More than 200,000 young men underwent basic combat training here during 1966-70. At the peak of the Vietnam War in 1968, Fort Bragg’s military population rose to 57,840. July 1, 1973, Fort Bragg came under the U.S. Army Forces Command headquartered at Fort McPherson, Georgia.

Today, Fort Bragg is the world's largest airborne facility with more than 45,000 military personnel. Widely known as the "home of the airborne," Fort Bragg houses the 82nd Airborne Division, assigned here in 1946 after returning from Europe, and the XVIII Airborne Corps, reactivated here in 1951. The U.S. Army Parachute Team (the Golden Knights) also calls Fort Bragg home.

Fort Bragg is the home of the airborne. For more than half a century, Fort Bragg has had a proud heritage as the Home of the Nation's Finest fighting forces. The XVIII Airborne Corps was originally activated as the II Armored Corps at Camp Polk, LA., Jan 17, 1942. It was redesignated XVIII Corps Oct 9, 1943 at the Presidio of Monterey, California. The Corp's birthday is Aug 25, 1944. The same day the XVIII Airborne Corps assumed command of the 82d and 101st Airborne Divisions.

Today the XVIII Airborne Contingency Corps is the only airborne corps in the defense establishment of the United States and exercises control over the 82d Airborne Division; 101 Airborne Division (Air Assault), Fort Campbell, KY; 3rd Infantry Division (Mechanized) Fort Stewart, GA; 10th Mountain Division, Fort Drum, NY; 194th Armor Brigade, Fort Knox, KY; 18th Field Artillery; 18th Personnel Group; 108th Air Defense Artillery Brigade, Fort Bliss, TX; 44th Medical Brigade, XVIII Airborne Artillery; 11th Air Defense Artillery Brigade; 1st Corps Support Command; 16th Military Police Brigade; 20th Engineer Brigade; 25th Military Intelligence Brigade; Dragon Brigade; 18th Finance Group; 18th Aviation Brigade and 35th Signal Brigade; 2nd ACR.

The Psychological Warfare Center - now the U.S. Army Special Operations Command - was established here in 1952, and Fort Bragg units include the 1st Corps Support Command, 44th Medical Brigade, XVIII Airborne Corps Artillery, 18th Aviation Brigade, 35th Signal Brigade, and more. Fort Bragg and neighboring Pope Air Force Base form one of the largest military complexes in the world.

Much like a large city, Fort Bragg has its own schools, shopping malls, medical facilities, housing and churches. Almost every type of recreation and athletics is available. Golf courses, pools, lakes, bowling lanes, hunting fields, craft shops and much more are all around you. The Atlantic to the East and the Appalachian Mountains to the West offer a variety in scenery for the traveler. There is plenty to see and do on a short weekend or month's leave in North Carolina. Hunting for dove, quail, deer, and boar is available within 25-100 miles. Good fishing is available within 10-100 miles. Snow skiing - North Carolina Mountains within 275 miles. Point of interest in the area: Blue Ridge Mountains and Pisgh Forest, 275 miles; Lake Tillery, 175 miles; Battleship "North Carolina" in Wilmington, 100 miles; Old Salem in Winston-Salem, 125 miles.

BRAC 2005
Secretary of Defense Recommendations: In its 2005 BRAC Recommendations, DoD recommended to realign Fort Bragg by relocating the 7th Special Forces Group (SFG) to Eglin AFB, FL, and by activating the 4th Brigade Combat Team (BCT), 82d Airborne Division and relocating European-based forces to Fort Bragg, NC.

The total estimated one-time cost to the Department of Defense to implement this recommendation would be $334.8M. The net of all costs and savings to the Department during the implementation period would be a savings of $446.1M. Annual recurring costs to the DoD after implementation would be $23.8M, with no payback expected. The net present value of the costs and savings to the Department over 20 years would be a cost of $639.2M. DoD estimated that this recommendation would not result in any job reductions over the 2006-2011 period. Environmentally, this recommendation might result in operational restrictions to protect cultural or archeological resources at Fort Bragg. Tribal consultations might also be required. Further analysis may be necessary to determine the extent of new noise impacts at Bragg. Increased water demand at Fort Bragg might lead to further controls and restrictions and water infrastructure might need upgrades due to incoming population. An evaluation of operational restrictions for jurisdictional wetlands would likely have to be conducted at Fort Bragg. Added operations might impact threatened and endangered species at Fort Bragg and would result in further operational and training restrictions. This recommendation would require spending approximately $1.0M for environmental compliance costs.

In another recommendation, DoD would realign Yeager Airport AGS, WV, by realigning eight C-130H aircraft to Pope/Fort Bragg to form a 16 aircraft Air Force Reserve/active duty associate unit. DoD also recommended to close Pittsburgh International Airport (IAP) Air Reserve Station (ARS), PA, and relocate 911th Airlift Wing’s (AFRC) eight C-130H aircraft to Pope/Fort Bragg to form a 16 aircraft Air Force Reserve/active duty associate unit. It would also Relocate AFRC operations and maintenance manpower to Pope/Fort Bragg.

DoD also recommended to close General Mitchell Air Reserve Station (ARS).

In another recommendation, DoD would realign Ft Eustis, VA, Ft Jackson, SC, and Ft Lee, VA, by relocating all mobilization processing functions to Ft Bragg, NC, designating it as Joint Pre-Deployment/Mobilization Site Bragg/Pope.

Secretary of Defense Justification: The first recommendation would co-locate Army Special Operation Forces with Air Force Special Operations Forces at Eglin AFB, activate the 4th BCT of the 82nd Airborne Division and relocate Combat Service Support units to Fort Bragg from Europe to support the Army modular force transformation. DoD claimed that this realignment and activation of forces would enhance military value and training capabilities by locating Special Operations Forces (SOF) in locations that best support Joint specialized training needs, and by creating needed space for the additional brigade at Fort Bragg. DoD acknowledged that this recommendation would never pay back. However, it claimed that the benefits of enhancing Joint training opportunities coupled with the positive impact of freeing up needed training space and reducing cost of the new BCT by approximately $54-$148M (with family housing) at Fort Bragg for the Army's Modular Force transformation, would justify the additional costs to the Department.

The C-130 unit would remain as an Army tenant on an expanded Fort Bragg. Careful analysis of mission capability indicated that it would be more appropriate to robust the proposed airlift mission at Fort Bragg to an optimal 16 aircraft C-130 squadron, which would provide greater military value and offers unique opportunities for Jointness. Assuming no economic recovery, this recommendation could result in a maximum potential reduction of 7,840 jobs (4,700 direct jobs and 3,140 indirect jobs) over the 2006-2011 period in the Fayetteville, NC, Metropolitan Statistical economic area (4.0 percent).

The third recommendation would realign the 440th Airlift Wing’s operations, maintenance and Expeditionary Combat Support (ECS) manpower to Fort Bragg.

The fourth recommendation would realign eight lower threshold mobilization sites to four existing large capacity sites and transforms them into Joint Pre-Deployment/ Mobilization Platforms. This action would be expected to have the long-term effect of creating pre- deployment/mobilization centers of excellence, leverage economies of scale, reduce costs, and improve service to mobilized service members. These joint platforms would not effect any of the services units that a have specific unit personnel/equipment requirements necessitating their mobilization from a specified installation. This recommendation specifically targeted four of the larger capacity mobilization centers located in higher density Reserve Component (RC) personnel areas. These platforms had the added military value of strategic location, Power Projection Platform (PPP) and deployment capabilities. The gaining bases all had an adjoining installation from another service(s), thereby gaining the opportunity to increase partnership and enhance existing joint service facilities and capabilities. These new joint regional predeployment/redeployment mobilization processing sites, Fort Dix, Fort Lewis, Fort Bliss and Fort Bragg had the capability to adequately prepare, train and deploy members from all services while reducing overall mobilization processing site manpower and facilities requirements. Numerous other intangible savings would be expected to result from transformation opportunities by consolidating all services’ mobilization operations and optimizing existing and future personnel requirements. Additional opportunities for savings would also be expecte from the establishment of a single space mobilization site capable of supporting pre-deployment/mobilization operations from centralized facilities and infrastructure.

Community Concerns: There were no formal expressions from the community.

Commission Findings: The Commission found that this recommendation was consistent with DoD’s justification. Specifically, the Commission views that the relocation of the 7th Special Forces Group to Eglin AFB, FL, provides this unit an opportunity to achieve outstanding joint training through its collocation with the Air Force Special Operations Command. Also, the Commission found that this relocation enables the activation of the 4th Brigade Combat Team, 82D Airborne Division at Fort Bragg, NC, and it is consistent with the Army’s transformation efforts and the Force Structure Plan.

The Commission found that though the Mission Compatibility Index (MCI) tool did not accurately capture all aspects of the base’s military value and may appear to have favored larger bases, it appears to have been applied consistently. Regarding Mitchell’s Airlift MCI score, the Commission verified that there was in fact a calculation error for the formula assessing the quality of an installation’s pavement. Even after correcting the error, however, the base still ranked as one of two of the lowest scoring Air Force Reserve bases, according to the Air Force. The Commission found this recommendation supportable. The Commission established C-130 wings at Dobbins Air Reserve Base, Georgia and Pope Air Force Base, North Carolina. This recommendation is consistent with the Commission’s Air National Guard and Air Force Reserve Laydown plan.

Commission Recommendations: The Commission found the Secretary’s recommendation consistent with the final selection criteria and force structure plan. Therefore, the Commission approved the recommendation of the Secretary.

Copy and Paste from the official Ft. Bragg site www.Bragg.army.mil

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[quade 4]

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There is a Ft Bragg CA too, a lumber mill and commercial fishing town on the Mendocino coast. The mill shut down a few years back and the Feds have closed the commercial salmon season for the second year in a row. Hard times up there.

Wonder why there are so many Ft Braggs? Odd.

Be that as it may, upon hearing the words "Fort Bragg," if a person has any sense whatsoever of skydiving history or military parachute operations, really . . . there's only one place that should immediately come to mind.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[snowmman 3]

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Quote

There is a Ft Bragg CA too, a lumber mill and commercial fishing town on the Mendocino coast. The mill shut down a few years back and the Feds have closed the commercial salmon season for the second year in a row. Hard times up there.

Wonder why there are so many Ft Braggs? Odd.

Be that as it may, upon hearing the words "Fort Bragg," if a person has any sense whatsoever of skydiving history or military parachute operations, really . . . there's only one place that should immediately come to mind.

Quade:
I thought that my history was clear.
I have no sense of skydiving history or military parachute operations.
Thanks for confirming.

[Erroll 80]

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...we have little personal stuff to pursue other than his appearance.

And even that is extremely tenuous.

I have attached a 'mug-shot' of a serial killer, and an identikit image of the suspect. The killer was shot very recently in South Carolina.

There is virtually no resemblance between the two.

[quade 4]

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Quade:
I thought that my history was clear.
I have no sense of skydiving history or military parachute operations.
Thanks for confirming.

But how long have you been at this? Certainly you should have run across Fort Bragg, NC a couple of times by now. Pretty much every US military jumper from any service branch has gone through Fort Bragg and I do mean pretty much ALL of them since the very beginning of parachute operations. If you guys are looking at mil spec jumpers, that place is going to come up over and over again.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[snowmman 3]

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Quade:
I thought that my history was clear.
I have no sense of skydiving history or military parachute operations.
Thanks for confirming.

But how long have you been at this? Certainly you should have run across Fort Bragg, NC a couple of times by now. Pretty much every US military jumper from any service branch has gone through Fort Bragg and I do mean pretty much ALL of them since the very beginning of parachute operations. If you guys are looking at mil spec jumpers, that place is going to come up over and over again.

Well now you got me wondering about you, Quade. Why are you interrogating me on this detail? There is no "you guys". If you're talking about me. I answered your question. I have no idea about anyone else here. You might ask everyone about Fort Bragg then.

Are you saying I've been looking at military jumpers for a while?

No.

We discussed it generally. I looked into it in detail when Orange1 brought it up again just recently.

What does that seem complicated or not make sense? I have not looked at Fort Bragg before. I have not looked at it now, other than how it likely explains when Waugh may have started thinking about a hijack because of his situation.

I have noted I don't have good detail on the critical Nov-Dec, 1971 timeframe.

I've been very clear, and you think the most important thing is to decide my lack of knowledge about Fort Bragg is important to point out. And I was the one to highlight my error, to avoid sending anyone down the wrong path.

Great. I know nothing about Fort Bragg. Never have. Never will. Don't care about skydivers, especially after 377 convinced me that even with a D license and some wingsuit jumps, Orange1 would still be untouchable, and to just forget about it.

Larry Carr steered everyone away from just about any possible suspect except a dead ADD engineer early on. Then he got excited about loadmasters. And now you're wondering why no one looked at military jumpers?

Okay let's start pointing fingers. That's what the forum does best. Chew on each other.

Begin.

If you have any other bullshit points to make, or questions about me, Quade, fire away, I'll answer them.

Do I know more about skydiving history then your average dumbass jumper? I don't know. Possibly. That would be funny.

(edit) When Orange1 and I had long discussions about Vietnam before, I was looking at US civilian jumpers in Vietnam during the period. Maybe that's why you're confused. Maybe you didn't even know there were any?

[quade 4]

Simmer down. I'm not attacking you, I'm just curious how you could have possibly been at the DB Cooper game so long and not have run across Fort Bragg before. That's all. It just seems like it's something you certainly should have stumbled upon.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[georger 268]

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Simmer down. I'm not attacking you, I'm just curious how you could have possibly been at the DB Cooper game so long and not have run across Fort Bragg before. That's all. It just seems like it's something you certainly should have stumbled upon.

Well, in Snow's defense, I see it all the time in many
fields. People get focused on a problem and get
separated from the larger picture. That is part of what Snow means when he says someone is not (being) a
scientist, or what Sluggo means when he says, 'knowing more and more about less and less', meaning "detachment". And it sometimes wins
Nobel Prizes.

I will spare everyone and wont elaborate. Im trying
to spare everyone my detachment.

[snowmman 3]

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...we have little personal stuff to pursue other than his appearance.

And even that is extremely tenuous.

I have attached a 'mug-shot' of a serial killer, and an identikit image of the suspect. The killer was shot very recently in South Carolina.

There is virtually no resemblance between the two.

disagree. The serial killer sketch is a good match.

[georger 268]

I have noted I don't have good detail on the critical Nov-Dec, 1971 timeframe.

[georger 268]

Quote

Quote

Quote

...we have little personal stuff to pursue other than his appearance.

And even that is extremely tenuous.

I have attached a 'mug-shot' of a serial killer, and an identikit image of the suspect. The killer was shot very recently in South Carolina.

There is virtually no resemblance between the two.

disagree. The serial killer sketch is a good match.

I agree.

[snowmman 3]

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I have noted I don't have good detail on the critical Nov-Dec, 1971 timeframe.

Snow, I want to point out, Cooper had no scars, tatoos,
or facial/hand blemishes of note reported.

BW does and would have been noticed, as per the below and other actions BW saw by 1971. You can
see several prominent features in the photos you
posted . . .

reference:
" In 1965, while participating in a commando raid with his CIDG unit on a North Vietnamese Army encampment near Bong Son, Binh Dinh province, Waugh's unit found itself engaged with much larger enemy force then anticipated. Expecting only a few hundred NVA, it was discovered that a force of Chinese regulars had joined the NVA Elite; combining for almost 4,000 soldiers. While he and his men attempted to retreat from the battle, Waugh received numerous severe wounds to his head and legs. Unconscious, he was taken for dead by NVA soldiers and left alone. Despite his injuries, and with the assistance of his teammates, Waugh was safely evacuated from the combat zone. He spent much of 1965 and 1966 recuperating at Walter Reed Hospital in Washington, D.C., eventually returning to duty with 5th SFG in 1966. He received a Silver Star and a Purple Heart (His 6th) for the battle of Bong Son." (wiki)

[snowmman 3]

I had this thought.

I'll pay for a private lab/whatever to visit Billy at home to take DNA and fingerprints. I'll give the money to 377 upfront so I can't weasel out.

I would think Billy's fingerprints and DNA might be available already.
And we know that the value of any FBI prints or DNA might be zero.

But it's a question. And the question of private DNA work came up with other suspects.

I figure it can't be boatloads of money. So, sure, I'm willing to spend the money since I'm jawing. It's fair.

Worst case: I'm wrong and out some bucks.

(edit) Carr has said before that he would take DNA/prints submitted this way.

If Carr won't take anything, no matter what, then I won't money up, because it's pointless.
So it's fair to ask 377 to get a committment from Carr before I fork over.