377 22
Recommended Posts
[Cudos to you Orange:
When they talked about the Dan Cooper Comics - I felt that totally out of place on an official FBI site, but each to his own. For Carr to establish a profile based on the Comic Book Character was unprofessional to me (note I said just to me).
Perhaps it was because I read it with a biased mind.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
snowmman 3
377, I think, has made some musings on the likelihood of men of Cooper's era, reading comic books and serving as a loadmaster.
The two seem a little incongruous.
The other thing about jump experience: I thought most military jumpers would have been static line. So pretty inexperienced with freefall.
And while a stick is going out, the airborne safety wears a emergency rig, right? But saying "airborne safety" experience doesn't make sense I guess. But loadmaster does? Why? Loadmasters understand parachutes.
So, I would think most paratroopers wouldn't have much experience in doing freefall, if any. We talked about the relatively small number of jumps involved in military training before.
I don't know why loadmaster was selected for profile. There are some mentions of Cooper using the phrase "interphone" in, say, the Real McCoy book, but I thought Ckret discounted that.
His use of "airstair" and "interphone" was mentioned as part of his "aviation knowledge"..but that could be myth or bogus, and even cribbed off Tina. (can anyone sort how this "airstair" or "interphone" stuff. Did Ckret discount it?)
Behaviorally, Cooper doesn't seem like loadmaster to me.
I think it is actually a dis to the professionalism of loadmasters?
Are there any loadmasters out there? Is it an insult or not to couple the "cluelessness" of Cooper with loadmasters?
What are people's theories on why loadmaster was a good choice? I have a hard time understanding Cooper as military.
(edit) Would a loadmaster have asked for a knapsack for the money, and then just dealt with it, when he got an open necked money bag?
The two seem a little incongruous.
The other thing about jump experience: I thought most military jumpers would have been static line. So pretty inexperienced with freefall.
And while a stick is going out, the airborne safety wears a emergency rig, right? But saying "airborne safety" experience doesn't make sense I guess. But loadmaster does? Why? Loadmasters understand parachutes.
So, I would think most paratroopers wouldn't have much experience in doing freefall, if any. We talked about the relatively small number of jumps involved in military training before.
I don't know why loadmaster was selected for profile. There are some mentions of Cooper using the phrase "interphone" in, say, the Real McCoy book, but I thought Ckret discounted that.
His use of "airstair" and "interphone" was mentioned as part of his "aviation knowledge"..but that could be myth or bogus, and even cribbed off Tina. (can anyone sort how this "airstair" or "interphone" stuff. Did Ckret discount it?)
Behaviorally, Cooper doesn't seem like loadmaster to me.
I think it is actually a dis to the professionalism of loadmasters?
Are there any loadmasters out there? Is it an insult or not to couple the "cluelessness" of Cooper with loadmasters?
What are people's theories on why loadmaster was a good choice? I have a hard time understanding Cooper as military.
(edit) Would a loadmaster have asked for a knapsack for the money, and then just dealt with it, when he got an open necked money bag?
377 22
I know four ex Airborne paratroopers. ALL their military jumps were S/L. I dont know what kind of rig the jumpmasters wear, but there are quite a few ex 82d and 101st Airborne guys on tihs website who can tell you all you need to know about their kind of jumping.
I still can't figure out why the FBI would feature the Dan Cooper comic book cover graphic on their DBC website. I am sure there is a reason, but it escapes me. Maybe it was the only attractive graphic they could find that was DBC related. I'd have picked the Betty Page type pinup that Tom Kaye was so virtuously ignoring, or if the SAC vetoed that, then I'd pick Sluggo's artistically lit 727 stair photo.
My recollection is that Ckret nixed the authenticity of claims that Cooper mentioned "interphone" but I am not 100% sure. Interphone is definitely a military term, used for crew intercom. Until I started fooling with surplus military aviation radios I had never heard the term "interphone". Their circuit schematics always had a low level audio connnection for interface to the aircraft interphone. The interphone system could take auio from microphones, crew handsets and radio receivers and direct it into the intercom system. AN/AIC 10 was a common interphone system in the 50s and 60s.
377
I still can't figure out why the FBI would feature the Dan Cooper comic book cover graphic on their DBC website. I am sure there is a reason, but it escapes me. Maybe it was the only attractive graphic they could find that was DBC related. I'd have picked the Betty Page type pinup that Tom Kaye was so virtuously ignoring, or if the SAC vetoed that, then I'd pick Sluggo's artistically lit 727 stair photo.
My recollection is that Ckret nixed the authenticity of claims that Cooper mentioned "interphone" but I am not 100% sure. Interphone is definitely a military term, used for crew intercom. Until I started fooling with surplus military aviation radios I had never heard the term "interphone". Their circuit schematics always had a low level audio connnection for interface to the aircraft interphone. The interphone system could take auio from microphones, crew handsets and radio receivers and direct it into the intercom system. AN/AIC 10 was a common interphone system in the 50s and 60s.
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
Quote
To correction your misinformation:
Ah if you bother to look the thread already existed:
http://www.thescienceforum.com/D.B.-Cooper-9518t.php
Its a science forum where crackpots and Jo Weber arent allowed. It's too lo-profile for you seeking attention.
Its interesting you would be searching for DB Cooper
forums at this time? That's funny-predictable. Are
you looking to spread your feces on a bigger wall?
My Dearest Baboon,
I found your site a couple of days ago and if you think the Scientic allocation will keep "Cooper Junkies" or the general internet junkies out you are badly mistaken. I do not know how many sites you have visited in the last 8 yrs, but the survival rate along with the intellect input has been low.
Snowmman and myself (Jo) are the least of your worries with all the rest of the Cooper sites out there. If you think there are feces thrown out on this forum you are absolutely a babe in arms and need to stay within the giant umbrella of the jumping world and a well moderated forum.
Cooper thread have done more to advance interest in the Cooper saga and the discovery of evidence and possible solutions than any other instrument or investigative group out there and that includes the FBI.
The FBI and Cooper enthusiast and writers have grazed in this forum for a long time. The general public really has little knowledge of Cooper, but in this world he is an Icon gone wild. The jumping world is divided amongest believers and non-believers regarding Cooper's survival.
I will also note that in the Skyjumping forum the intellect of the posters is 99.99% higher than what I have found in other places.
Many of us are worried that the DZ forum is facing problems and want to know what we can do to help them to continue to provide this service...such as a limited and reduced membership for those of us who are Whuffo's.
Thank Guys, I love you all and you have been the greatest - even when you think I am CRAZY and I call myself
CRAZY. I have to be crazy to believe that I was married to Cooper?
The Cooper battle is NOT over yet for me, but it is going to take more than limited contacts in a forum. It is time for me to TRY to go forward with something I have put off far too long. It is something I REALLY DO NOT want to do - but, find the FBI's profiling based on a comic book ludicrous.
The FBI cannot spend money to do some simple searches but the FBI can spend money for Agent Carr to promote fanciful ideals in their online site. Is the FBI trying to find Cooper or promote a MYTH?
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
snowmman 3
I liked this modern video because it showed the rig an Airborne Safety (two guys?) is wearing (I guess that's correct title for the position?) (starting at around 0:55). It's an emergency rig, right?
Do they have main + reserve on the back in these emergency rigs now, or just a main?
Plus it's cool cause it's just "casual day at the office footage"
I like the igloo water jug strapped up to the post. And maybe a box of tissues or paper towels strapped next to it.
In any case, this is what got me thinking about "well airborne safety wears emergency rig, why loadmaster?"
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=35670049
Maybe it's an age thing. There's no clear description of what era loadmaster the profile is targeting.
Do they have main + reserve on the back in these emergency rigs now, or just a main?
Plus it's cool cause it's just "casual day at the office footage"
I like the igloo water jug strapped up to the post. And maybe a box of tissues or paper towels strapped next to it.
In any case, this is what got me thinking about "well airborne safety wears emergency rig, why loadmaster?"
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=35670049
Maybe it's an age thing. There's no clear description of what era loadmaster the profile is targeting.
snowmman 3
377 mentioned "artitistically lit" airstair photo.
We covered the exact number of lights that exist on the air stair back in the thread. I think that was from the 727 schematic from the early article.
I too thought there was extra lighting in Sluggo's pic, but I now think it's lit by existing lights. Just good camera work. Maybe a flood or flash, but the yellow lighting I think is all on the 727?
One unknown we have: Did Cooper get lights on his stairs? The McCoy description seems to imply no lights (remember him talking about getting his penlight). Who knows.
We covered the exact number of lights that exist on the air stair back in the thread. I think that was from the 727 schematic from the early article.
I too thought there was extra lighting in Sluggo's pic, but I now think it's lit by existing lights. Just good camera work. Maybe a flood or flash, but the yellow lighting I think is all on the 727?
One unknown we have: Did Cooper get lights on his stairs? The McCoy description seems to imply no lights (remember him talking about getting his penlight). Who knows.
QuoteQuoteNevertheless, Dayton had plenty of other wild stories to tell, such as being a guerilla fighter against the Japanese in the jungles of the Philippines during WWII,
How was she involved in WW 2 combat and how old would that make her? Something doesn't add up age wise to fit the Dayton was Cooper story. The book says she is 43 in 1969 when he became a she through the wonders of surgery. That means he was a WW 2 Philippines theater combatant at about age 15? I guess its possible, but it seems far fetched.
Her story about jumping from near the top of the steps doesn't add up either. I don't think you'd get enough downward stair deflection for a clear exit. Sluggo, Snow?
Was she an experienced skydiver? The book says yes but where is the proof? What DZ? What jumpers knew her? If not experienced there is little chance she could do a jet exit, 8000 ft night freefall and pull at 1000 ft AGL. A flat spin and blackout is far more probable if she was a novice.
/reply]
Good questions, 377.
Bobby-Barb Dayton was 17 years old in 1943, as I understand the story. He joined the Merchant Marine at that time, and spent the remainder of WWII in his capacity of seaman. However, during a couple of weeks early in this gig, he left his ship in the Philippines and headed to the jungles where he freelanced with the Moro people.
In post WWII- 1945-7-ish time, Bobby joined the Army for a short hitch, then returned to the Merchant Marine and worked as a seaman on munititon ships on-and-off for many years.
As for the specifics of jumping, experience, etc., those questions are the ones I would like to pose to FBI officials, as their behavior is my primary interest, not Barb Dayton's.
I am not here to prove Barb is DB. In fact, I don't think she is. But I do suspect she's part of the Cooper case somehow, as I do believe Duane Weber and McCoy are, also.
But, 377, I will be mindful of your very legitimate questioning, for it advances the whole investigation.
Nevertheless, at the moment my primary questions are: Does the FBI investigate folks who confess to being DB Cooper? Does a confession get you to the head of the line? What are the criteria the feds use to determine who gets what kind of review? Are any confessees not investigated? If so, who makes that determination and how? Did the FBI investigate Barb Dayton? If not, why not?
Lastly, if the FBI is investigating Barb now, how extensive is it?
As for records of Barb-Bobby Dayton's parachuting experience, I doubt there are many. He-she had an utter disregard for authority and formality, and I imagine he-she jumped when and where he wanted to. I'd be surprised if he had any more than rudimentary, informal instruction. Heck, he/she flew his Cessna for years without a pilot's license and disregarded the requirement for a medical clearance to fly, and in fact, did have at least one heart attack flying out of Thun Field with Pat Forman, who had to take the controls and get coached to the ground by her husband who zoomed in next to her to guide her. Just before touch-down, however, Barb regained consciousness and took the stick and got them safely home.
Part II, of four
The FBI investigation comes under suspicion:
Although the Formans have never met with Carr, they did meet with an FBI agent in August, 2006 to discuss their findings. The agent was named Jeremy Blauser, and he met with the Formans after they hired an attorney, Ed Hudson, to help make contact with the Bureau, and to also iron-out copyright and other legal details in their forthcoming book.
Intriguingly, Blauser told the Formans and Hudson that he was based out of the Los Angeles FBI office - giving them a business card to prove it - and declared he was “on loan” to the Seattle office to help with a resurgent Cooper investigation.
On the day of the scheduled meeting Ron became ill, so Pat, alone with her attorney, met with Blauser in a downtown Tacoma office building. Pat says that Blauser was initially a skeptic but became very excited by her revelations, and evolved into a true believer by the end of their two-hour conversation.
When they parted, he asked for items of Barb’s that would provide DNA samples, such as hair brushes and sealed envelopes, which the Formans provided shortly thereafter.
However, when I asked Carr about the Dayton DNA samples, he said he has never received any.
However, he did confirm that the Bureau had a partial DNA sample from the clip-on tie that Cooper had left inexplicably on the aircraft.
“The DNA samples could be Cooper, or somebody else’s. We don’t know,” Carr said.
But when I asked Agent Carr if he was planning to contact the Formans and conduct a DNA screening on Barb Dayton, he said the Formans would have to perform the Dayton DNA analysis and then bring it to him.
Putting aside Agent Carr’s less-than-robust investigation for the moment, is the FBI conducting parallel investigations in the Cooper case – Carr’s in Seattle, and one out of Los Angeles run by Blauser? Or did Carr or Blauser botch the hand-off, or is the FBI stonewalling this inquiry?
Sadly, efforts to clarify what is going on have come to an impasse for Special Agent Jeremy Blauser has vanished. His cell phone number has been disconnected, the Los Angeles FBI says that he no longer works there, and they claim they are unable to say where he’s gone.
As for Carr, the last time I asked for an interview, I was told he was out of town for two weeks even though he was heard on NPR’s Morning Edition several days later chatting with a KUOW radio crew about car-pooling to the annual DB Cooper Day festival in Ariel, Washington.
Nevertheless, let’s return to the clues at hand. How about old fashioned fingerprints? DB reportedly downed several bourbons and water (and paid for it with his own cash). Aren’t there any fingerprints on the cocktail cup? The government has Bobby Dayton’s prints from his lengthy service in the Army and Merchant Marine. Is there a match? If not, why not say so?
Lastly, Larry Carr, with a chillingly dismissive tone of voice, told me that “nothing the Formans have presented fits anything in the case files.”
Nothing? What about the confession, then?
As for file-comparisons, how about the fact that Dayton was a sharp pilot and parachutist, plus she knew how to rig dynamite charges? Carr told me the FBI “intensely investigated” the skydiving and flying communities of the Pacific Northwest in the days after the skyjacking, considering at the time that pilots and parachutists were prime suspects. So, how did the feds miss a 40-something pilot who did stunts with a rinky-dink Cessna 140?
Further, Dayton knew from years of flying over Washington and Oregon that instructing the Northwest Orient pilots to fly to Mexico City at 10,00 feet would automatically put them in the air transportation corridor known as Victor 23, and would place her directly on top of I-5 at Woodburn, Oregon.
Plus, Dayton was a Raleigh chain-smoker and her drink of choice was bourbon. Further, Dayton routinely wore loafers, even while flying, and Ron Forman says he never saw her wear any other kind of foot wear.
In addition, Dayton held a well-known grudge against the FAA for regulations that prevented her from becoming a commercial pilot.
Plus, she was known famously for her disregard of money, on at least one occasion draining the fuel from her Cessna 140 and transferring it to her car so she could drive home to her apartment in West Seattle.
Her psychiatrist reported she had nothing to live for; isn’t that a suitable state of mind for jumping out of a 727 the night before Thanksgiving while wearing a thin rain coat and slip-ons?
Plus, the Formans say that on the night Barb confessed, the group of pilots asked to take a Polaroid of her done-up as DB. Ron says the resemblance of the picture to the published FBI composite sketch was so uncanny that one individual freaked-out, tore up the picture and fled the house.
In addition, a newspaper article dated November 21, 1979 from the University of Washington, The Daily, describes a Cooper scenario virtually identical to the story Ron and Pat now tell. Written by two undergrad reporters named Clark Humphrey and Brian Guenther, The Daily says they got the story from two secretive sleuths who used psychic powers to uncover the truth.
Weird, yes, but was Barb planting stories at The Daily while she worked at the library across campus? Further, The Daily reported that the FBI had been contacted, and that the feds considered the information “credible.”
Is that true? Did the FBI know in 1979 of the Woodburn landing and the sex-change angle?
Regardless of whether or not Barb Dayton failed to register on the FBI’s radar screen in the early 1970s as a cracker-jack pilot, or got on it in 1979 with the UW publication but then inexplicably dropped off it again, doesn’t the FBI want to wrap-up this case, now?
One last, lonely red flag: why did the Department of Justice wait until the very last possible day to obtain this John Doe indictment when the Portland office of the FBI had been warning the DOJ attorneys long before? Was someone in Washington, DC trying to run out the clock on the DB Cooper case?
More Doubts: the Ariel screw-up-
In the days after the skyjacking, the FBI mounted an enormous investigation, which included a massive ground search in the vicinity of Ariel, Washington, about 30 miles north of Vancouver, WA.
This area was selected based on where the FBI thought Flight 305 was flying when the aft stairs bounced.
Hundreds of soldiers from Ft. Lewis, Washington, and a phalanx of cops, sheriffs and feds scoured 28 square miles of rugged mountainous terrain along the Lewis River drainage of the Cascades Mountains. After eighteen days of a painstaking yard-by-yard search, they found zilch and quit.
Ignoring the Barb Dayton angle for a moment, did that bump actually occur over Ariel, or somewhere else north of Portland?
It has been revealed in numerous places, most notably by authors Russ Calame and Bernie Rhodes in their book DB Cooper - The Real McCoy” that the FBI failed to get the exact position of Flight 305 from the pilot, Captain William Scott.
They say that at a retirement party in 1980 for the FBI agent who had headed the Portland office’s Cooper investigation, Special Agent Ralph Himmelsbach, Capt Scott revealed that Flight 305 was flying over Woodland, Washington when the stairs bucked, not ten miles further east over Ariel as the feds had originally surmised.
In addition, the FBI did not accurately determine the direction of the wind, either, according to the captain of the Continental Airlines jetliner flying directly behind Flight 305 in Victor 23.
In his Norjak book, Himmelsbach says the failure to ascertain the wind direction came to light in 1978 when Capt. Tom Bohan, the Continental skipper, contacted the FBI on his own initiative and told them 80 knot winds that night were coming at him from a compass heading of 166 degrees – slightly east of head-on.
That was nearly 80 degrees different than the westerly 245 degree angle the FBI had used in its calculations. Plus, at 80 knots it was more than double in strength than the FBI’s original configuration. Hence, if DB Cooper had jumped where the FBI said he had, his drift in the wind also would have put him west of Ariel.
Based on these two pieces of information – and maintaining the FBI’s reckoning of a jump at the Ariel latitude and not Woodburn - DB Cooper should have landed slightly north or northwest of Woodland, WA, and touched down in the flat lands of the Columbia River basin, not the mountain peaks of the Cascades.
The FBI has yet to explain how or why the errors were made.
©
Bruce A. Smith
2009
PO Box 1676 Yelm, Washington 98597
The FBI investigation comes under suspicion:
Although the Formans have never met with Carr, they did meet with an FBI agent in August, 2006 to discuss their findings. The agent was named Jeremy Blauser, and he met with the Formans after they hired an attorney, Ed Hudson, to help make contact with the Bureau, and to also iron-out copyright and other legal details in their forthcoming book.
Intriguingly, Blauser told the Formans and Hudson that he was based out of the Los Angeles FBI office - giving them a business card to prove it - and declared he was “on loan” to the Seattle office to help with a resurgent Cooper investigation.
On the day of the scheduled meeting Ron became ill, so Pat, alone with her attorney, met with Blauser in a downtown Tacoma office building. Pat says that Blauser was initially a skeptic but became very excited by her revelations, and evolved into a true believer by the end of their two-hour conversation.
When they parted, he asked for items of Barb’s that would provide DNA samples, such as hair brushes and sealed envelopes, which the Formans provided shortly thereafter.
However, when I asked Carr about the Dayton DNA samples, he said he has never received any.
However, he did confirm that the Bureau had a partial DNA sample from the clip-on tie that Cooper had left inexplicably on the aircraft.
“The DNA samples could be Cooper, or somebody else’s. We don’t know,” Carr said.
But when I asked Agent Carr if he was planning to contact the Formans and conduct a DNA screening on Barb Dayton, he said the Formans would have to perform the Dayton DNA analysis and then bring it to him.
Putting aside Agent Carr’s less-than-robust investigation for the moment, is the FBI conducting parallel investigations in the Cooper case – Carr’s in Seattle, and one out of Los Angeles run by Blauser? Or did Carr or Blauser botch the hand-off, or is the FBI stonewalling this inquiry?
Sadly, efforts to clarify what is going on have come to an impasse for Special Agent Jeremy Blauser has vanished. His cell phone number has been disconnected, the Los Angeles FBI says that he no longer works there, and they claim they are unable to say where he’s gone.
As for Carr, the last time I asked for an interview, I was told he was out of town for two weeks even though he was heard on NPR’s Morning Edition several days later chatting with a KUOW radio crew about car-pooling to the annual DB Cooper Day festival in Ariel, Washington.
Nevertheless, let’s return to the clues at hand. How about old fashioned fingerprints? DB reportedly downed several bourbons and water (and paid for it with his own cash). Aren’t there any fingerprints on the cocktail cup? The government has Bobby Dayton’s prints from his lengthy service in the Army and Merchant Marine. Is there a match? If not, why not say so?
Lastly, Larry Carr, with a chillingly dismissive tone of voice, told me that “nothing the Formans have presented fits anything in the case files.”
Nothing? What about the confession, then?
As for file-comparisons, how about the fact that Dayton was a sharp pilot and parachutist, plus she knew how to rig dynamite charges? Carr told me the FBI “intensely investigated” the skydiving and flying communities of the Pacific Northwest in the days after the skyjacking, considering at the time that pilots and parachutists were prime suspects. So, how did the feds miss a 40-something pilot who did stunts with a rinky-dink Cessna 140?
Further, Dayton knew from years of flying over Washington and Oregon that instructing the Northwest Orient pilots to fly to Mexico City at 10,00 feet would automatically put them in the air transportation corridor known as Victor 23, and would place her directly on top of I-5 at Woodburn, Oregon.
Plus, Dayton was a Raleigh chain-smoker and her drink of choice was bourbon. Further, Dayton routinely wore loafers, even while flying, and Ron Forman says he never saw her wear any other kind of foot wear.
In addition, Dayton held a well-known grudge against the FAA for regulations that prevented her from becoming a commercial pilot.
Plus, she was known famously for her disregard of money, on at least one occasion draining the fuel from her Cessna 140 and transferring it to her car so she could drive home to her apartment in West Seattle.
Her psychiatrist reported she had nothing to live for; isn’t that a suitable state of mind for jumping out of a 727 the night before Thanksgiving while wearing a thin rain coat and slip-ons?
Plus, the Formans say that on the night Barb confessed, the group of pilots asked to take a Polaroid of her done-up as DB. Ron says the resemblance of the picture to the published FBI composite sketch was so uncanny that one individual freaked-out, tore up the picture and fled the house.
In addition, a newspaper article dated November 21, 1979 from the University of Washington, The Daily, describes a Cooper scenario virtually identical to the story Ron and Pat now tell. Written by two undergrad reporters named Clark Humphrey and Brian Guenther, The Daily says they got the story from two secretive sleuths who used psychic powers to uncover the truth.
Weird, yes, but was Barb planting stories at The Daily while she worked at the library across campus? Further, The Daily reported that the FBI had been contacted, and that the feds considered the information “credible.”
Is that true? Did the FBI know in 1979 of the Woodburn landing and the sex-change angle?
Regardless of whether or not Barb Dayton failed to register on the FBI’s radar screen in the early 1970s as a cracker-jack pilot, or got on it in 1979 with the UW publication but then inexplicably dropped off it again, doesn’t the FBI want to wrap-up this case, now?
One last, lonely red flag: why did the Department of Justice wait until the very last possible day to obtain this John Doe indictment when the Portland office of the FBI had been warning the DOJ attorneys long before? Was someone in Washington, DC trying to run out the clock on the DB Cooper case?
More Doubts: the Ariel screw-up-
In the days after the skyjacking, the FBI mounted an enormous investigation, which included a massive ground search in the vicinity of Ariel, Washington, about 30 miles north of Vancouver, WA.
This area was selected based on where the FBI thought Flight 305 was flying when the aft stairs bounced.
Hundreds of soldiers from Ft. Lewis, Washington, and a phalanx of cops, sheriffs and feds scoured 28 square miles of rugged mountainous terrain along the Lewis River drainage of the Cascades Mountains. After eighteen days of a painstaking yard-by-yard search, they found zilch and quit.
Ignoring the Barb Dayton angle for a moment, did that bump actually occur over Ariel, or somewhere else north of Portland?
It has been revealed in numerous places, most notably by authors Russ Calame and Bernie Rhodes in their book DB Cooper - The Real McCoy” that the FBI failed to get the exact position of Flight 305 from the pilot, Captain William Scott.
They say that at a retirement party in 1980 for the FBI agent who had headed the Portland office’s Cooper investigation, Special Agent Ralph Himmelsbach, Capt Scott revealed that Flight 305 was flying over Woodland, Washington when the stairs bucked, not ten miles further east over Ariel as the feds had originally surmised.
In addition, the FBI did not accurately determine the direction of the wind, either, according to the captain of the Continental Airlines jetliner flying directly behind Flight 305 in Victor 23.
In his Norjak book, Himmelsbach says the failure to ascertain the wind direction came to light in 1978 when Capt. Tom Bohan, the Continental skipper, contacted the FBI on his own initiative and told them 80 knot winds that night were coming at him from a compass heading of 166 degrees – slightly east of head-on.
That was nearly 80 degrees different than the westerly 245 degree angle the FBI had used in its calculations. Plus, at 80 knots it was more than double in strength than the FBI’s original configuration. Hence, if DB Cooper had jumped where the FBI said he had, his drift in the wind also would have put him west of Ariel.
Based on these two pieces of information – and maintaining the FBI’s reckoning of a jump at the Ariel latitude and not Woodburn - DB Cooper should have landed slightly north or northwest of Woodland, WA, and touched down in the flat lands of the Columbia River basin, not the mountain peaks of the Cascades.
The FBI has yet to explain how or why the errors were made.
©
Bruce A. Smith
2009
PO Box 1676 Yelm, Washington 98597
snowmman,
"Some guy" is a Disabled American Veteran, an aeronautical engineer, has jumped, and has 1750 flight hours.
You replied:
"Weather varies. Depends on where you're looking. You should talk to the FBI. They would know."
Do you work for MicroSoft or something? (Answers to questions are 100% accurate and totally useless.)
I'm glad to know you are serving this community by helping talented people who want to discover for themselves what might have happened on 11/24/2009. They are the kind of folks who don't just take the FBI's word for everything. I know you appreciate that.
Good job!
Sluggo_Monster
Web Page
Blog
NORJAK Forum
QuoteI got a PM from some guy asking about the weather, saying he wanted to do an analysis. etc.
"Some guy" is a Disabled American Veteran, an aeronautical engineer, has jumped, and has 1750 flight hours.
You replied:
"Weather varies. Depends on where you're looking. You should talk to the FBI. They would know."
Do you work for MicroSoft or something? (Answers to questions are 100% accurate and totally useless.)
I'm glad to know you are serving this community by helping talented people who want to discover for themselves what might have happened on 11/24/2009. They are the kind of folks who don't just take the FBI's word for everything. I know you appreciate that.
Good job!
Sluggo_Monster
Web Page
Blog
NORJAK Forum
Quote
Ckret posted his Cooper as a former aircrew loadmaster/kicker theory long before the Air America stuff came to light here. Did the FBI already know about all that SE Asia covert air ops stuff including 727 jumps but did not disclose it?
377
If he was aware of it he sure didn't admit it early on nor did the prior agents. For yrs I told the FBI that Cooper was a firejumper or the one on the plane who communicated with the ground and the search planes in order to drop the load (ground fighters) in the right location. Until this forum I didn't know the name of that position.
Duane's extreme knowledge of CB's and communications - along with the title he used indicates he was what you guys call a Load Master. I would bet that he used that communications title from 1945 - to 1949 out of the Mt. Hood area. I would put a bet on Ed Horan being a mechanic or pilot out of that area in those same yrs.
I have explained this to the FBI until I am blue in the face - it was this forum that helped me put things together about that period of time.
His experience from that time period was utilized again in the mid to late 60's....a group not so upfront as the firejumpers.
The Worlds Greatest Jock Ball Carrier - was not meant to be a dirty joke. In the 40's his cargo was some of the greatest Jocks around and it was his job to make sure they got where they were supposed to be and not in the middle of the fire.
Truth, Fiction, Lie or just a "bad" story by a desparate woman. Bet the FBI doesn't want to make bets at this time. Right MAXs? That's right you read it right - I said Max.
Really hope Ckret (agent Carr) is ready for this one. Maybe I should BY-PASS the FBI and go straight to the media......
I know 377 you don't like it when I do this - but it is not meant for the forum - it is meant to fly in the face of the FBI...Carr knows exactly what I am talking about...and if he doesn't he needs to look for a different line of work.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
Ckret posted his Cooper as a former aircrew loadmaster/kicker theory long before the Air America stuff came to light here. Did the FBI already know about all that SE Asia covert air ops stuff including 727 jumps but did not disclose it?
377
Share this post
Link to post
Share on other sites