snowmman 3
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377 22
Snow,
I think one of our forum participants wants to take you up on your offer to do an on site Cooper simulation, but the price is a bit steep. He hasn't said it, but I think he wants to prechill you down to about 90 degress F body core temp. Any problem with that starting condition?
Just kidding.
When a local tells me about local conditions I listen unless the claim seems absurd. Jerry hasn't said anything yet that looks absurd to me.
Death Valley is remote and hostile, yet it has a lot of human traffic near areas where you could die in a couple of days if you got lost. It is not a perfect analogy to Washougal, but there is a common thread: getting lost can be fatal in hostile territory even if you are wandering close to populated or well travelled areas.
In the areas where Cooper came likely came down, could he stay lost for more than one night? Would daylight reveal roads, houses, civilization even if far away? Jerry? Snow? Sluggo?
377
I think one of our forum participants wants to take you up on your offer to do an on site Cooper simulation, but the price is a bit steep. He hasn't said it, but I think he wants to prechill you down to about 90 degress F body core temp. Any problem with that starting condition?
Just kidding.
When a local tells me about local conditions I listen unless the claim seems absurd. Jerry hasn't said anything yet that looks absurd to me.
Death Valley is remote and hostile, yet it has a lot of human traffic near areas where you could die in a couple of days if you got lost. It is not a perfect analogy to Washougal, but there is a common thread: getting lost can be fatal in hostile territory even if you are wandering close to populated or well travelled areas.
In the areas where Cooper came likely came down, could he stay lost for more than one night? Would daylight reveal roads, houses, civilization even if far away? Jerry? Snow? Sluggo?
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
Orange1 0
QuoteNote that implies that wherever you were, had a reasonable amount of human traffic. ........
I'm assuming the other human traffic was typically from cars/trucks driven to some location, and then people walking in, at most a day.
I guess I don't understand why these sites are called remote, if there's all this human traffic?
But were they like that in 1971? Everyone knows places that were wilderness back then and are everyone's weekend destination now.
I agree with 377's take and I think it is GREAT to have someone who is actually local to the area rather than the rest of us poring over Google earth and postulating.
And sure Cooper could have survived and walked out. Or he could have no-pulled on a hard-pull rig and gone in. Or he could have survived the jump and - like that base jumper i mentioned - got disoriented in the dark and didn't find his way out even though he "should" have. or or or.
i reckon if he's not ex-military gone back to SEAsia, the crawfish got him.
Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.
snowmman 3
QuoteSnow,
I think one of our forum participants wants to take you up on your offer to do an on site Cooper simulation, but the price is a bit steep. He hasn't said it, but I think he wants to prechill you down to about 90 degress F body core temp. Any problem with that starting condition?
That would make it difficult. Why would Cooper have a 90 deg F core temp though?
$1000 a day is cheap. If you were paying a skilled guide to do anything hard outdoors, with just you, it'd be $200/day at least, and that's just an 8 hr day.
I will admit I should have thought it through a little more before posting. I made the conditions pretty hard as posted. I think chance of death is low, but the 3 day limit is hard.
Has anyone watched Survivorman on TV? While there's a lot to be said to pick at that show, the guy is interesting. He's done the thing of parachuting into the middle of the Canadian wilderness, not knowing where he was, and making it out to a road in a week, I believe it was.
Here's the thing, I've got what, 9 months to prepare, if someone's going to get the money together.
The 3 day limit is the hard part, but I think that makes it a fair wager. Looking at maps etc. 6 days would make it more of a sure thing for "anywhere" in WA, or OR.
WA might be better. The worst thing is running out of water, and there's some high desert in OR. But I'm assuming whoever pays up would want it to be more Cooper like, so I'm not going to have to worry about water. (heat can be a lot worst than cold)
Looking at maps now, the best way to screw me over would be to just find the place that's the farthest distance in all directions to roads, and that those roads would be lightly travelled in fall/winter..like private logging land. If I had to travel 60 miles to a road in rough terrain, 3 days wouldn't be enough.
Here's my prep:
1) Memorize all maps of WA and OR.
2) Tape the following to my body so you can't see them:
map, compass, some matches, a couple energy bars, a couple knives in various places (like my shoe), so I could cut myself out of however you tie me up.
3) Cheating is always good. My goal is not to prove anything about Cooper but win the money. I'd try to jam a small transmitter up my ass so I could call someone.
4) Physical training would be big. I have 9 months to get honed.
5) Get the body used to fat burning. Run up to marathon distances. Work out the food loading the week before. Make sure i have enough extra body fat to start (might drop 10 lbs in a week)
6) Get the best clothes that past the visual "looks like Cooper" test but might really be a cheat. Goretex layers under the surface layers, for instance. You can get cloth with embedded goretex now, that you wouldn't be able to tell. Fully suited up in goretex, you're like in an astronaut suit. Helps a lot.
7) Since one of the Cooper descriptions said he had ankle boots, I get to wear ankle boots. I get flares too.
But I'm still up for it. With only the conditions as stated in my first post.
377 22
Quotei reckon if he's not ex-military gone back to SEAsia, the crawfish got him.
Interesting you should mention that. I was in Louisiana in 1969 right after Hurricane Camille hit it hard. People in the remote coastal marsh areas who ignored warnings and stayed behind and drowned were very quickly attacked by hordes of crabs who stripped most of the flesh from their bones. At least that's what the locals told me.
I imagine crawfish could do the same.
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
snowmman 3
Orange1 said:
"Everyone knows places that were wilderness back then and are everyone's weekend destination now."
You mean that maybe Cat D-9's came thru and opened up some roads that weren't there before, so people can drive in, and back in 1971 Cooper couldn't walk out?
There are places that are just as difficult to get to today as they were in 1971.
I'm just trying to figure out how Jerry gets to all these remote places. I expected to hear about helicopters, since they would be places Cooper couldn't get out from.
Instead I'm hearing about drive-in car camping and walking a couple miles from a site.
But yeah, there might have been a bunch of CAT D-9 activity.
"Everyone knows places that were wilderness back then and are everyone's weekend destination now."
You mean that maybe Cat D-9's came thru and opened up some roads that weren't there before, so people can drive in, and back in 1971 Cooper couldn't walk out?
There are places that are just as difficult to get to today as they were in 1971.
I'm just trying to figure out how Jerry gets to all these remote places. I expected to hear about helicopters, since they would be places Cooper couldn't get out from.
Instead I'm hearing about drive-in car camping and walking a couple miles from a site.
But yeah, there might have been a bunch of CAT D-9 activity.
377 22
QuoteBut I'm still up for it. With only the conditions as stated in my first post.
Knowing what I do about your ice climbing exploits, I'd actually bet on you not against you Snow. Really.
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
377 22
QuoteYou mean that maybe Cat D-9's came thru and opened up some roads that weren't there before, so people can drive in, and back in 1971 Cooper couldn't walk out
Dont be too surprised if you find an elaborate pot farm in the most remote places. I used to do criminal defense and you would not believe how remote some of the busted farms were. The cops couldn't have found or raided them without helicopters even if they swore off donuts for a year.
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
Jerry (T),
In 1993 -1996 I used to fly a C-172 from RCH to KLS (Richland to Kelso-Longview). I would leave RCH and fly near S20 (Goldendale) then directly to KLS (passing just south of Mt. St. Helens).
I did this (dog-leg) to limit my time in the air over the mountainous deep-woods. Now, I had driven all through the Pinchot National Forest and I had an idea of how desolate it was. I didn’t have any fear that if I “went-in” I wouldn’t be able to survive, I just didn’t want to damage a rental aircraft by landing in the tree-tops.
From the air, I saw something I had never seen from driving in the area. There was a margin of about 100 yds (give or take) on either side of the roads, and deeper in the forest it was clear-cut (or nearly clear-cut). At first I thought I was seeing those steep areas where landslides are common, but on closer inspection (from about 9,000 feet) I could see the evidence of logging activity.
So… my question is: Have you seen this, and do you think it might have been like this in 1971. The reason I’m bringing this up is… logging activity means logging roads and skid-paths (or whatever they call them).
Nothing is this question should be interpreted to indicate that I agree with your assessment of where the LZ was. But, I AM still listening to what you have got to say. And thank you for posting here (I needed someone to take some of the heat off of me).
377,
I counted you as a friend, then, I saw the photos you posted. You, young man, are mentally unstable, therefore you can’t possibly be MY friend, because in my world, friends don’t let friends jump from perfectly good airplanes. However, I would consider it myself (jumping) if you could snag me a right-seat ride in a DC-3!
Sluggo_Monster
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In 1993 -1996 I used to fly a C-172 from RCH to KLS (Richland to Kelso-Longview). I would leave RCH and fly near S20 (Goldendale) then directly to KLS (passing just south of Mt. St. Helens).
I did this (dog-leg) to limit my time in the air over the mountainous deep-woods. Now, I had driven all through the Pinchot National Forest and I had an idea of how desolate it was. I didn’t have any fear that if I “went-in” I wouldn’t be able to survive, I just didn’t want to damage a rental aircraft by landing in the tree-tops.
From the air, I saw something I had never seen from driving in the area. There was a margin of about 100 yds (give or take) on either side of the roads, and deeper in the forest it was clear-cut (or nearly clear-cut). At first I thought I was seeing those steep areas where landslides are common, but on closer inspection (from about 9,000 feet) I could see the evidence of logging activity.
So… my question is: Have you seen this, and do you think it might have been like this in 1971. The reason I’m bringing this up is… logging activity means logging roads and skid-paths (or whatever they call them).
Nothing is this question should be interpreted to indicate that I agree with your assessment of where the LZ was. But, I AM still listening to what you have got to say. And thank you for posting here (I needed someone to take some of the heat off of me).
377,
I counted you as a friend, then, I saw the photos you posted. You, young man, are mentally unstable, therefore you can’t possibly be MY friend, because in my world, friends don’t let friends jump from perfectly good airplanes. However, I would consider it myself (jumping) if you could snag me a right-seat ride in a DC-3!
Sluggo_Monster
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NORJAK Forum
snowmman 3
It's very easy to forget to cheat in a survival situation.
I was in a desert location in the summer once. No hat. Ran out of water that morning. Couldn't find where I had left my car, even though I could see a long ways. Had a map with springs on it.
Eventually got to one of the springs. It was covered with an old rusty barrel and wire screening to keep the wild burros off it. The water had an oily sheen and bugs all over it.
I remember looking down and feeling a little delirious and thinking "I'm not drinking that, I'll find better" and closing the lid and walking away. Only a couple steps though before I remembered how marginal a situation I was in and had to take every little advantage.
Yes I died that day. Sad story. They never found my body.
People think it's about being like in a book or a story in a survival situation. It's all about knowledge, mental control and cheating when possible. You break into cars. Steal stuff if necessary. Create situations that might go in your favor.
You don't try to live up to some "way of behaving" all the way up to death. You recognize when you're fucked and adapt and accept it. People screw up when they have outside goals they try to force fit into their situation...like "I gotta get out tonite cause I told them I'd be home".
Indians lived in the woods remember? Man came before the urban cities. Not the other way around.
The body is genetically built to survive in the north american climate. That's why humans migrated here.
(edit) I'm reminded of another story, where we were kind of lost, no trails, whacking thru brush, and determined to make it out that nite...we're blasting full steam downhill, sweaty, panting, nothing for miles and miles....when we burst thru the bushes into this campsite with two young women. And the first thing I see is a pair of panties laid out on a rock.
Really.
So they look at us in shock, like they were expecting bear because they thought there was no one around for miles...and we were in full-bore we're-getting-out-tonite mode, so knew we didn't have time to chat otherwise we'd be in the dark...and what are you going to say when you just ran into two young women staring at you bug-eyed with their panties on a rock between you and them?
So we just kept blasting thru, after a quick "Hi".
I always wondered how they slept that night.
I was in a desert location in the summer once. No hat. Ran out of water that morning. Couldn't find where I had left my car, even though I could see a long ways. Had a map with springs on it.
Eventually got to one of the springs. It was covered with an old rusty barrel and wire screening to keep the wild burros off it. The water had an oily sheen and bugs all over it.
I remember looking down and feeling a little delirious and thinking "I'm not drinking that, I'll find better" and closing the lid and walking away. Only a couple steps though before I remembered how marginal a situation I was in and had to take every little advantage.
Yes I died that day. Sad story. They never found my body.
People think it's about being like in a book or a story in a survival situation. It's all about knowledge, mental control and cheating when possible. You break into cars. Steal stuff if necessary. Create situations that might go in your favor.
You don't try to live up to some "way of behaving" all the way up to death. You recognize when you're fucked and adapt and accept it. People screw up when they have outside goals they try to force fit into their situation...like "I gotta get out tonite cause I told them I'd be home".
Indians lived in the woods remember? Man came before the urban cities. Not the other way around.
The body is genetically built to survive in the north american climate. That's why humans migrated here.
(edit) I'm reminded of another story, where we were kind of lost, no trails, whacking thru brush, and determined to make it out that nite...we're blasting full steam downhill, sweaty, panting, nothing for miles and miles....when we burst thru the bushes into this campsite with two young women. And the first thing I see is a pair of panties laid out on a rock.
Really.
So they look at us in shock, like they were expecting bear because they thought there was no one around for miles...and we were in full-bore we're-getting-out-tonite mode, so knew we didn't have time to chat otherwise we'd be in the dark...and what are you going to say when you just ran into two young women staring at you bug-eyed with their panties on a rock between you and them?
So we just kept blasting thru, after a quick "Hi".
I always wondered how they slept that night.
377 22
Quote377,
I counted you as a friend, then, I saw the photos you posted. You, young man, are mentally unstable, therefore you can’t possibly be MY friend, because in my world, friends don’t let friends jump from perfectly good airplanes. However, I would consider it myself (jumping) if you could snag me a right-seat ride in a DC-3!
Sluggo,
DB Cooper is one of the very few civilians who has jumped from a perfectly good airplane. Jumpships start out as airliners, then go to charter, then to freight, then to dope smuggling and when even the smugglers wont fly em, they become jumpships. Cooper started at the top.
I'll see what I can do about getting you a DC 3 ride.
They are getting scarce but Skydive AZ still takes theirs up once in a while.
I love this photo I shot of the FAA FLIGHT STANDARDS guy (plane cop) looking skeptically at our ancient ATL 98 CARVAIR jumpship. The FAA knew FO SHO this was no perfectly good airplane but all the logbook and AD paperwork was in PERFECT order... hmmmm. See attached.
Check this WFFC DC 3 story out, I was in the jumpseat:
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1815953#1815953
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
Snow, George, Jerry, Sluggo, Anyone-
I think this was brought up before, but i cant remember or find it. Other than the flight crew, who definately without a doubt 100% saw Cooper? Not just a guy on the plane fitting Coopers description or sombody checking in looking like him?
I think this was brought up before, but i cant remember or find it. Other than the flight crew, who definately without a doubt 100% saw Cooper? Not just a guy on the plane fitting Coopers description or sombody checking in looking like him?
snowmman 3
QuoteQuoteYou mean that maybe Cat D-9's came thru and opened up some roads that weren't there before, so people can drive in, and back in 1971 Cooper couldn't walk out
Dont be too surprised if you find an elaborate pot farm in the most remote places. I used to do criminal defense and you would not believe how remote some of the busted farms were. The cops couldn't have found or raided them without helicopters even if they swore off donuts for a year.
377
Uh yes, I've heard that.
(nervously looking out my window)
snowmman 3
QuoteSnow, George, Jerry, Sluggo, Anyone-
I think this was brought up before, but i cant remember or find it. Other than the flight crew, who definately without a doubt 100% saw Cooper? Not just a guy on the plane fitting Coopers description or sombody checking in looking like him?
ticket agent.
SKYWUFFO,
From My Web-site:
According to FBI records:
When the passengers were taken off of the plane they were escorted to a VIP lounge. Only five of the 35 passengers indicated that they took notice of Cooper or that there were aware that there may have been a problem, other than what was announced by the crew (mechanical difficulty). They are as follows:
Mr. Gregory
Mr. Labissoniere
Mr. Spreckel
Mr. Mitchell (the stuborn student)
Mrs. House
The remaining 30 passengers, including Richard and Barbra Simons, stated they knew of nothing other than what the flight crew had advised them, nor did they notice Cooper.
As stated previously, there was the Ticket Agent , Flo, Alice, and Tina.
None of the cockpit crew ever saw Cooper (at least not after roll-back). They might have seen him during boarding activities, but took no notice.
I have different names (two, I believe) for the ticket agent, I don't know which is correct. I can look it up if it is needed.
Sluggo_Monster
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From My Web-site:
According to FBI records:
When the passengers were taken off of the plane they were escorted to a VIP lounge. Only five of the 35 passengers indicated that they took notice of Cooper or that there were aware that there may have been a problem, other than what was announced by the crew (mechanical difficulty). They are as follows:
Mr. Gregory
Mr. Labissoniere
Mr. Spreckel
Mr. Mitchell (the stuborn student)
Mrs. House
The remaining 30 passengers, including Richard and Barbra Simons, stated they knew of nothing other than what the flight crew had advised them, nor did they notice Cooper.
As stated previously, there was the Ticket Agent , Flo, Alice, and Tina.
None of the cockpit crew ever saw Cooper (at least not after roll-back). They might have seen him during boarding activities, but took no notice.
I have different names (two, I believe) for the ticket agent, I don't know which is correct. I can look it up if it is needed.
Sluggo_Monster
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NORJAK Forum
377 22
Quoteand what are you going to say when you just ran into two young women staring at you bug-eyed with their panties on a rock between you and them?
Snow, so that's where you got the panties you referred to in your post directed to Georger...
Sluggo, do women ever geocache undergarments?
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
Silly boy!
Women do almost everything in their undergarments. And so do men (trying not to be sexist, Orange1).
However, they usually have their outer-garments on also.
Now... back in the late sixties... when I was at Stanford... I knew this girl from Berkley… she didn’t shave her underarms or wear panties…. She would do this thing with her… oh!.... uh!......... NEVERMIND!
Sluggo
The Devil made me do it!
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Women do almost everything in their undergarments. And so do men (trying not to be sexist, Orange1).
However, they usually have their outer-garments on also.
Now... back in the late sixties... when I was at Stanford... I knew this girl from Berkley… she didn’t shave her underarms or wear panties…. She would do this thing with her… oh!.... uh!......... NEVERMIND!
Sluggo
The Devil made me do it!
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snowmman 3
Taking the challenge seriously, I decided to start training right away with lunch.
They really do taste like chicken.
What's the thought here? I guess never underestimate a sick motherf**ker.
People talk about being rule breakers, but what's the limit, really?
They really do taste like chicken.
What's the thought here? I guess never underestimate a sick motherf**ker.
People talk about being rule breakers, but what's the limit, really?
Seriously though, Groundspeak Forums has threads on strangest things found in a cache, near a cache, or when encountering other geocachers.
I know there is at least one dude who “geocaches in the nude.” Geocaching is a relatively conservative and family-oriented activity, but needless to say, sometimes the adventure goes beyond the trek to the cache.
Sluggo
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I know there is at least one dude who “geocaches in the nude.” Geocaching is a relatively conservative and family-oriented activity, but needless to say, sometimes the adventure goes beyond the trek to the cache.
Sluggo
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Snowmman: I don't recall saying I walked north for miles from where I camped in a single day. I follow the direction of the streams and search both sides. There is a lot of dead fall out there even lying across these streams the area is full of neddles and blackberry vines.The forest floor has a lot of over growth and dead vegitation, in a lot of case's every step is 3 ft deep in vegitation/debris I would welcome the opurtunity to take you out in to this area. Then you can report back to the forum on the diffulculty of traveling in this terain. I will be taking a man out in this area next week Im sure he will post his evaluation of the terain for all of you to read. There has been many would be gung ho searchers that I have introduced this area too. Unfourtunatly they gave up the first day.So come on out here I'm sure we can have a very interesting search.
Sluggo Longveiw fiber does most of the logging in these area's and they generaly clear cut. Yes it was like this back in 1971 as it is still today if a logging contractor had of found something pertaining to this case or any artifacts of any kind, it is unlikely it would have been reported. If they report any findings, they have to cease operation emidiatly this cost thim time and money( then there wive's get mad because they can't pay there bills. Just a little humor.) However from the air it looks just as you discribed.Hope this answer's your question.
snowmman 3
Hi Jerry,
I know you're sincere, and I've been a bit sarcastic, which I guess is always unnecessary in any real human interaction.
Here's the thing.
It's like standard,it seems, that everyone involved in DBC things, falls back on that "you can't know until you do this".
i.e. you can't know anything about jumping out of a plane until you jump out of a plane with me.
Or you can't know about the chaos Cooper experienced and how he would have reacted until you night jump
Or you can't know about the woods in Washington unless you come search with me.
Or you can't know the weather at PDX unless you've been there.
Jo has her own list of "you can't know unless you ..." Like you can't know Tena Bar and the Fazio's unless you've been there.
blah, blah blah.
The thing is, it's a false belief that direct experience, in one shallowly defined area, somehow brings you closer to cooper.
There's no reason to believe he jumped in the woods. Until there is, there's no reason to worry about knowing more about the woods you search. Sure I throw out some thoughts, just because I hate hearing people be dogmatic about certain topics.
You give little information, yet want people to believe you. Or maybe you don't really care. That's fine.
I still don't understand what the max distance you search from your car is. That's a real simple question. I'm more curious in understanding the standards people have, when they make a judgement on what people can do. For instance if Cooper can't deal with your woods, how did he deal with the night jump or doing a hijack? Because the night jump or hijack was easy compared to your woods?
Do you have any direct experience with doing a hijack or night jump? :)
Another example of why it's pointless: All you have to do is point out that if he jumped and deployed in the woods, he likely would have been injured. We've discussed that before. So say he was injured and didn't make it out. That makes more sense. There's even the existence proof of LaPoint who jumped in CO with snow on the ground (January) (cowboy boots) and got hurt.
There's absolutely no reason I'm interesting in walking in the woods.
It doesn't scale either. It's not a viable search plan. It would be more likely to find money on Tena Bar, then find anything with your current strategy.
I might as well search outside my house. Just as likely as to finding something.
Now could we develop info that would actually create a interesting search area? Maybe.
But we haven't, to date.
Now if you can make a living bringing people into the woods, I would encourage it. Create a web site. Sluggo should help you.
You could get Sluggo to create CD's with all the data, that you could sell to folks too. There's lots of possibilities.
Heck, look at Ckret. He went on TV talking about some Citizen's Breakfast Club or whatever he called it, working on this case.
And they believed him!
You've told us nothing about Himmelsbach or his information (whether there is more that we don't know) ...yet you want us to just believe you. Doesn't make sense. Politicians do that.
Do you have a digital camera? You can post pictures of whatever you claim or want to argue for. That's what we do here. Throw out data, debate it's merits, dream up new data. Bullshit. Lie. Hit on Orange1. Oops what a giveaway.
I know you're sincere, and I've been a bit sarcastic, which I guess is always unnecessary in any real human interaction.
Here's the thing.
It's like standard,it seems, that everyone involved in DBC things, falls back on that "you can't know until you do this".
i.e. you can't know anything about jumping out of a plane until you jump out of a plane with me.
Or you can't know about the chaos Cooper experienced and how he would have reacted until you night jump
Or you can't know about the woods in Washington unless you come search with me.
Or you can't know the weather at PDX unless you've been there.
Jo has her own list of "you can't know unless you ..." Like you can't know Tena Bar and the Fazio's unless you've been there.
blah, blah blah.
The thing is, it's a false belief that direct experience, in one shallowly defined area, somehow brings you closer to cooper.
There's no reason to believe he jumped in the woods. Until there is, there's no reason to worry about knowing more about the woods you search. Sure I throw out some thoughts, just because I hate hearing people be dogmatic about certain topics.
You give little information, yet want people to believe you. Or maybe you don't really care. That's fine.
I still don't understand what the max distance you search from your car is. That's a real simple question. I'm more curious in understanding the standards people have, when they make a judgement on what people can do. For instance if Cooper can't deal with your woods, how did he deal with the night jump or doing a hijack? Because the night jump or hijack was easy compared to your woods?
Do you have any direct experience with doing a hijack or night jump? :)
Another example of why it's pointless: All you have to do is point out that if he jumped and deployed in the woods, he likely would have been injured. We've discussed that before. So say he was injured and didn't make it out. That makes more sense. There's even the existence proof of LaPoint who jumped in CO with snow on the ground (January) (cowboy boots) and got hurt.
There's absolutely no reason I'm interesting in walking in the woods.
It doesn't scale either. It's not a viable search plan. It would be more likely to find money on Tena Bar, then find anything with your current strategy.
I might as well search outside my house. Just as likely as to finding something.
Now could we develop info that would actually create a interesting search area? Maybe.
But we haven't, to date.
Now if you can make a living bringing people into the woods, I would encourage it. Create a web site. Sluggo should help you.
You could get Sluggo to create CD's with all the data, that you could sell to folks too. There's lots of possibilities.
Heck, look at Ckret. He went on TV talking about some Citizen's Breakfast Club or whatever he called it, working on this case.
And they believed him!
You've told us nothing about Himmelsbach or his information (whether there is more that we don't know) ...yet you want us to just believe you. Doesn't make sense. Politicians do that.
Do you have a digital camera? You can post pictures of whatever you claim or want to argue for. That's what we do here. Throw out data, debate it's merits, dream up new data. Bullshit. Lie. Hit on Orange1. Oops what a giveaway.
snowmman 3
"3 ft deep in vegitation/debris"
Are you walking in logging areas? Is this logging slash you're talking about?
I agree it's difficult to walk thru slash. Sometimes impossible.
If it's slash, is it before 1971 or after 1971. Can you tell?
In a normal forest, the canopy prevents sunlight, so that there isn't as much ground vegetation/debris. If there's a lot of ground stuff, it usually means logging at some point in time, or opened to sunlight due to road cuts etc?
??
(edit) streams/ravines provide this same side light I guess. Can imagine it's bad next to streams
Are you walking in logging areas? Is this logging slash you're talking about?
I agree it's difficult to walk thru slash. Sometimes impossible.
If it's slash, is it before 1971 or after 1971. Can you tell?
In a normal forest, the canopy prevents sunlight, so that there isn't as much ground vegetation/debris. If there's a lot of ground stuff, it usually means logging at some point in time, or opened to sunlight due to road cuts etc?
??
(edit) streams/ravines provide this same side light I guess. Can imagine it's bad next to streams
"Ive lost riffles supplies a car equipment ECT"
Note that implies that wherever you were, had a reasonable amount of human traffic. Unless you mean animals took them?
You said you went N miles in a line from where you camped. (still not sure what the max N was)
I'm assuming the other human traffic was typically from cars/trucks driven to some location, and then people walking in, at most a day.
I guess I don't understand why these sites are called remote, if there's all this human traffic?
Here's my beef: Just about everyone who's been connected with the Cooper story is a big story teller, as far as I can tell so far. So yeah, I'm wondering about you. Can't tell so far.
(edit) I can understand how a dead body might be eaten and not found etc. But there's always this statement that it would be impossible for Cooper to walk out. I've never heard something that "proves" that. One the one hand I don't care, because I don't think he jumped in the woods. But it's like part of the mythology...it seems people want to say that for some reason.
Much better to start with assuming Cooper could do anything anyone here could do.
The myth paints him as a lumbering idiot. And that everyone telling the story is somehow more skilled than Cooper. Even though we know nothing about Cooper, everyone knows Cooper exactly.
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