georger 264
snowmman 3
QuoteQuoteGeorger, you say things so imprecisely.
"Rat said Cooper bailed somewhere between 5-10
minutes after their last contact woith him at 8:05,
and he could see the nothern suburbs of Portland
coming up, and they had not crossed the Columbia yet"
Rat did not say that.
Reply: Then you quote it.
He said stuff like that with respect to when they felt a pressure bump.
Reply> You just said he didnt say it. Which is it?
Make up your mind!
There is an assumption that what Rat was describing is when Cooper jumped. Yes there's some testing that says it's a reasonable assumption. But you stated something as "Rat said" that he didn't say.
This has been covered before. Go back and
read it - so again I say you quote it.
You're pretty funny georger. But not funny enough to get a free drink from Lenny at my bar. And no tab for you either!
What's really funny is that you lampoon Jo. But you are Jo. Just another version.
Read what I said again.
Rat never said where Cooper "bailed" as you say.
Now he might have and Ckret may not have told us something.
There are writer accounts of Rat saying "mark that on your radar" when Cooper jumped or something like that. But apparently that's all rumor.
But all we have from Ckret is Rat saying stuff about the pressure bump, right? The crew reported the oscillations which were then interpreted to be the jump time. They didn't report the bump but talked about it post interview. NOW we have Ckret willing/confident about saying the bump is the jump.
I would note at this time that Ckret never got us copies of the film from the test drop. Oh well.
But no one knows what's the jump. It's just different speculation, that could be right or wrong. For 37 years, the oscillation was the jump. For 1 year, the bump is the jump. You want to say Rat said "Cooper jumped". Rat didn't.
All I'm pointing out, is that you connected the pressure bump and the jump, by saying Rat said Cooper bailed.
I pointed out Rat didn't say that.
Seems pretty clear to me.
Since you want me to do work for you, I will.
Ckret posted, speculating on resolving why the crew didn't report the bump, on Jun 10, 2008, 4:55 PM
(part of a longer speculation by Ckret, snipped)
"The crew had already reported the abnormal fluctuations so they believed this "bump" was just a continuation of what started at 8:11 PM. Because of this they don't report it. They do have conversation, however, Radazcak said he could see the northern suburbs of Portland when this occurred. He also said it occurred 5 to 10 minutes after last contact at 8:05 PM."
and then this was followed by the one post in 6000 where Ckret agreed with a thought I posted:
"I am positive Ratazcak was talking about Vancouver when he said, "we had not yet reached Portland proper but we were definitely in the suburbs or immediate vicinity." Suburbs meaning Vancouver for the very reason you pointed out."
You're not a scientist. It's not your fault.
Does someone help you when you look thru the telescopes?
Here's something to think about. Rataczak is quoted by Ckret as talking about the northern suburbs of Portland in the interview about the bump. But Ckret has no problem saying Rataczak was wrong about that, but right about the bump..i.e. selective discrimination.
What if Rataczak was right about Portland. But no, you know what Rataczak said and what it meant.
I'd ask you to kiss my ass, but I pay Bubbles $50 a pop for that already.
Cabin presure fluctuation
snowmman 3
of how easy it is to be wrong in terminology.
earlier, Ckret on Nov 28, 2007 posted:
"The pressure bump occurred at 8:11PM, this put the fight in the area of Highland, Wa or grid 18 of a Clark County."
Now we all know that things have changed since then.
On Nov 2, 2008, even Ckret points out the importance of precise terminology. He was talking about how "oscillations" may have been misinterpreted. Ckret goes so far as speculating that the crew never said oscillations but that the tty operator made it up as an interpretation.
I mean there are lots of things that are speculations and interpretations, still.
Ckret, Nov 2, 2008:
"From putting everything together, the crew was referencing the cabin pressure gauge when the statement of “oscillation” was made. Not that they were feeling an oscillation in the aircraft. Remember; in another log created at the same time as the one reporting oscillations the word used was “fluctuations.”
Because the crew always referenced the bump as a pressure change it would make since that prior to the large “Pressure Event,” there were small events leading up.
Now go back and get you’re Cooper “on.” You are gingerly walking down the air stairs because you have never done this before. With each step you take caution, take a step and see what happens, take a step and see what happens. As you are doing this, the cabin pressure gauge in the cockpit starts to fluctuate.
The engineer notices this and reports the anomaly to ops, these fluctuations continue for a few minutes as you figure things out. Once you’re set you jump and the stairs come back to the body of the plane, causing the pressure event known as “the bump.” It is noticeable but not dramatic, the needle instantly spikes, they notice the change in their ears, things calm quickly. Because the small fluctuations continue (the stairs are still open to about 15 degrees) nothing is reported they just assume this is a continuation of what they have already reported. But they do take note, “wonder if he just jumped?” As they wonder this they notice they are just north of the Portland suburbs.
I think the individual typing the teletype was being fed info from the guy keeping the hand written log. When the guy keeping the handwritten log said, “they are reporting some type of fluctuations in the cabin pressure; they said the gauge is bouncing.” The teletype operator then typed “oscillations” his words not the crews.
Amazing how small, even seeming harmless interpretations can cause large fluctuations or oscillations in history."
Nah...
earlier, Ckret on Nov 28, 2007 posted:
"The pressure bump occurred at 8:11PM, this put the fight in the area of Highland, Wa or grid 18 of a Clark County."
Now we all know that things have changed since then.
On Nov 2, 2008, even Ckret points out the importance of precise terminology. He was talking about how "oscillations" may have been misinterpreted. Ckret goes so far as speculating that the crew never said oscillations but that the tty operator made it up as an interpretation.
I mean there are lots of things that are speculations and interpretations, still.
Ckret, Nov 2, 2008:
"From putting everything together, the crew was referencing the cabin pressure gauge when the statement of “oscillation” was made. Not that they were feeling an oscillation in the aircraft. Remember; in another log created at the same time as the one reporting oscillations the word used was “fluctuations.”
Because the crew always referenced the bump as a pressure change it would make since that prior to the large “Pressure Event,” there were small events leading up.
Now go back and get you’re Cooper “on.” You are gingerly walking down the air stairs because you have never done this before. With each step you take caution, take a step and see what happens, take a step and see what happens. As you are doing this, the cabin pressure gauge in the cockpit starts to fluctuate.
The engineer notices this and reports the anomaly to ops, these fluctuations continue for a few minutes as you figure things out. Once you’re set you jump and the stairs come back to the body of the plane, causing the pressure event known as “the bump.” It is noticeable but not dramatic, the needle instantly spikes, they notice the change in their ears, things calm quickly. Because the small fluctuations continue (the stairs are still open to about 15 degrees) nothing is reported they just assume this is a continuation of what they have already reported. But they do take note, “wonder if he just jumped?” As they wonder this they notice they are just north of the Portland suburbs.
I think the individual typing the teletype was being fed info from the guy keeping the hand written log. When the guy keeping the handwritten log said, “they are reporting some type of fluctuations in the cabin pressure; they said the gauge is bouncing.” The teletype operator then typed “oscillations” his words not the crews.
Amazing how small, even seeming harmless interpretations can cause large fluctuations or oscillations in history."
Nah...
snowmman 3
" The stairs immediately reacted by becomming abrubtly closed and we could feel a huge pressure bump in our ears. So I quickly got onto the air traffic control center and said, 'I think our friend just took leave of us.'" (PLF's quote of Wm Rataczak)
I know you quoted PLF quoting Rat.
But isn't that account just the stuff from the writers?
There is no reputable source for that happening right?
I'm wondering why you repeated that, Sluggo? Do you think it's true? If not, why repeat it?
(edit) Sluggo said:
'But you also know as well as I do he later referred
to the "pressure bump" in these terms quoted below -"
No I don't. Name your source for the quote by Rataczak. My fuzzy memory is now reminding me of the Discovery channel thing. Maybe Rataczak said it there? (many years later) But did he really call it in in 1971? If so, are you saying there's another transcript or channel where he said that?
I know you quoted PLF quoting Rat.
But isn't that account just the stuff from the writers?
There is no reputable source for that happening right?
I'm wondering why you repeated that, Sluggo? Do you think it's true? If not, why repeat it?
(edit) Sluggo said:
'But you also know as well as I do he later referred
to the "pressure bump" in these terms quoted below -"
No I don't. Name your source for the quote by Rataczak. My fuzzy memory is now reminding me of the Discovery channel thing. Maybe Rataczak said it there? (many years later) But did he really call it in in 1971? If so, are you saying there's another transcript or channel where he said that?
snowmman 3
QuoteCabin presure fluctuation
Hi Jerry.
Are you saying you have more information from someplace other than the transcripts? Or are you interpreting the transcripts or ???
snowmman 3
for the "took leave of us" quote from Rat.
Nov 17, 1996
We know there are errors in the Michael Taylor article. We've discussed this before. We don't even know for sure if he got the quotes direct from Rataczak.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/1996/11/17/SC51311.DTL&hw=coopers&sn=001&sc=1000
It's possible Rat said that. It'd be nice to know if he did, why Ckret didn't report it, and what channel/transcript it's on.
Nov 17, 1996
We know there are errors in the Michael Taylor article. We've discussed this before. We don't even know for sure if he got the quotes direct from Rataczak.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/1996/11/17/SC51311.DTL&hw=coopers&sn=001&sc=1000
It's possible Rat said that. It'd be nice to know if he did, why Ckret didn't report it, and what channel/transcript it's on.
snowmman 3
QuoteIt was the 80's and You must understand Ralph was assigned the case from day 1 as for information Ralph has told me Well lets just say that is between Ralph and I.
No problem. It wouldn't be the DBC thread if people didn't claim to have secret information.
UFOs speak to me thru my TV. Not so much since the transition to digital. Don't tell anyone.
snowmman 3
reading the whole article, Rat claims the bump was at 8:12.
He's full of shit in 1996 or 1971. Can't tell which!
This is too funny!
What do you say to that, Sluggo?
from the article:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/1996/11/17/SC51311.DTL&hw=coopers&sn=001&sc=1000
At 8:12 p.m., ``we felt a little bump and the air pressure changed,'' Rataczak said.
``I got on the radio to air traffic control and said, `I think our friend just took leave of us. Mark the point on your radar.' ''
And that was the last fix on D.B. Cooper.
He's full of shit in 1996 or 1971. Can't tell which!
This is too funny!
What do you say to that, Sluggo?
from the article:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/1996/11/17/SC51311.DTL&hw=coopers&sn=001&sc=1000
At 8:12 p.m., ``we felt a little bump and the air pressure changed,'' Rataczak said.
``I got on the radio to air traffic control and said, `I think our friend just took leave of us. Mark the point on your radar.' ''
And that was the last fix on D.B. Cooper.
Lets just say it's something I've been told in the past. trust me.
snowmman 3
QuoteLets just say it's something I've been told in the past. trust me.
I'll trust you and your secret source on anything you want. But I have no idea what we're talking about.
You posted a single sentence:
"Cabin presure fluctuation"
What was that in reference to? We were talking about the pressure bump, in context.
Are you talking about the oscillations in the transcript or the bump or ??
I may be dense, but the phrase above doesn't add anything, even if it is from a secret source?
I'll believe anything. Just need some more.
snowmman 3
QuoteSnowman you Know who I am and my name so who are you whats your name?
Jo has used all her wiles developed over 13 years to pester me about that.
In hindsight, I'm glad I had the foresight to not say, when I first starting posting after I happened to read about Ckret and the parachute find back in April, 2008, and the ADD engineer theory of Ckret's, and thinking "how hard can this be?"
Quote
What do you do for a living?
I post to this thread at DZ.com.
377 can verify that.
I lose a little on each post, but make it up in volume.
***
Do you live in California.
I have noted that if you use the available online tools for searching criminal records online, my name shows up in Arizona.
But I don't live there.
(edit) two m's in snowmman. :)
snowmman 3
Quote
Or some secret dam hydrologist of unknown name.
We mentioned him before:
Jeffrey B. Bradley, Hydraulic Engineer, US Army
Corps of Engineers, Portland District.
searching for the words
Bradley hydrologist
at DZ.com
the only other reference is from you, on 2/5/08 (less than 3 weeks ago)
you said
"Ckret and hydrologist Bradley say the money could
not have been at Tina Bar prior to 1974 due to the
dredging in 1974. The timeline of rubber band deterioration suggests the money could have been
at Tina Bar any LATER than 1974, and have bands
still intact by 1980! How do we resolve this conflict? "
Where did you find out about Bradley? I don't think the name showed up here before your post. You post was long, which is why I didn't catch the new name.
background on Bradley? Do you have a copy of his report?
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